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InvisibleATWAR
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Stubborn spore depositors? Tips?
    #1710127 - 07/13/03 12:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There have been several occasions when I have attempted printing a mushroom, and they will lay down extremely light (as in barely visible), if not nothing at all. Now, it appears to be this particular strain only that I have problems with. I have heard of the water drop on the cap technique, but are there any types of conditions that will help the caps drop spores more efficiently?

Prints are taken in a sealed environment, with virtually no possibility of drying out. Regular fruiting temperatures are maintained with caps staying on for at least 24 hours. Leaving the caps on for a few days is not an option obviously because they will start to get nasty. Different stages of maturity have been attempted; with no real definitive point from tearing the veil to curling has lead to better results. It?s not a problem with sterile fruits, as they will produce spores here and there, and I can see spore coloration on the gills unlike sterile specimens I have observed.

I suppose it would be possible to use the sterile cotton swab method to gather a few, but I would like to avoid this scenario and get a print.


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OfflineHannibal88
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710220 - 07/13/03 12:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You may be able to leave a cap out for 48 hours without any problems. That should add to the density a bit...

Try pulling one mushroom a little early (i.e., before veil is broken all the way), and another mushroom a little late, and try to get a print from each. Timing might be an issue, especially if it's an odd or hybrid strain.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: Hannibal88]
    #1710321 - 07/13/03 01:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If you read my post carefully, you will see I have already tried this. They are always left on for at least 24 hours, if not more. I stated if I left them on for a few days they would go bad, implying I have already tried this as well. Then you also missed the part about experimentation with different stages of maturity. My timing is not an issue as far as I can tell; it makes no difference if I was to remove the veil manually or wait until the cap curled (or anything in between). This is not true with other strains I have worked with, because there is always a peak time of spore release. It is an inherent trait of this strain (or sub strain that I am working with) to be a poor spore producer. I was looking for some tips to somehow increase the efficiency (but not re-write the genetics or work miracles) so I could collect more spores. Many prints have been attempted but only a single one was even worth it although it was very dark considering all the other failures.

Basically are there any external conditions I can replicate that cause a cap to release spores faster or in greater numbers? Would varying temperatures (higher or lower) help any?


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InvisibleLiL_KuSsH
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Deleted [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710345 - 07/13/03 01:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlinephotovorix
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: LiL_KuSsH]
    #1710405 - 07/13/03 02:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the grey squirrel had shitty prints from lipa yai, until he started waiting for them to drop spores before printing (as opposed to right after they open up). Of course, this only takes 1-24 hours (time from opening to dropping spores.)


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: LiL_KuSsH]
    #1710409 - 07/13/03 02:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Good ventilation? What would be the purpose of this? It would seem this would dry the cap out (especially in 48 hours) and be counterproductive. I have left them there for 72 hours at the most, and they are not in good shape after that length of time, not to mention it has no effect at all in helping the problem.

I am fully aware of other methods to capture spores. The exact conditions that are perfect for spore release or conditions that promote accelerated spore production and release are what I am after.

Edit: It seems as if people are not reading my posts as carefully as they should. I have plenty of experience of taking prints and collecting spores. I think I will do the cotton swab method in the future; at least I will preserve the genetics somehow, even though I would prefer a print.


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Edited by ATWAR (07/13/03 02:08 AM)


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InvisibleLiL_KuSsH
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Deleted [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710419 - 07/13/03 02:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: LiL_KuSsH]
    #1710465 - 07/13/03 02:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I think I pretty much went over this already, I do not see any details that I have left out that would be relevant.

1. Wait for mushroom to mature.

2. Take fish hook and poke through cap.

3. Cut cap off stem.

4. Place cap on sterilized foil in a sealed and sterilized tupperware container (sometimes a drop or two of water has been applied to the center of the cap).

5. Regular fruiting or room temperatures have been maintained through the 24-72 hour printing process.

Notes:
Redundant, but I will repeat myself again. I have attempted to print the caps at various stages of development. From removing the veil when it is still rounded, to flat, to up curled.

I may give the ventilation trick a try, as with experimentation at different temperatures. I will have to build something to keep the ventilated air sterile though before I give that a try.


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InvisibleLiL_KuSsH
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Deleted [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710467 - 07/13/03 02:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: LiL_KuSsH]
    #1710485 - 07/13/03 02:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I will attempt your suggestion, at this point it is worth a shot. It is logical that fresh air would help; as the mushroom cap will still grow when picked (flattening or curling up and more spores are produced). But I have noticed through my own observations that sometimes stubborn mushrooms benefit from a drop of water on the cap. This indicates to me that the more moisture the better, hence my worry about the air exchange being counterproductive. I can only speculate that this would be bad, as I have yet to try it.

I think I will experiment with this and varying temperatures to see if it has any effect.


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Offlinehyper_dermic
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710896 - 07/13/03 06:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

well, i didnt get to test out my new theory yet, but maybe u can...

i took a cheap chinese food takeout tray and put holes in the lid..... i placed a tyvek filter over the top of the tray.....

put cap on foil or whatever inside lysoled tray..... lay a piece of foil over the top (LAY just to act as a partical guard, u still want the tyvek to breath) then place the whole shabang in the fridge...
the cooler temps will keep the cap from rotting... thus giving u a day or 2 more than usual....

good luck
and godspeed

[hyp]


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710905 - 07/13/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ATWAR said:Prints are taken in a sealed environment, with virtually no possibility of drying out.


there's your problem. the cap needs to be able to lose humidity slowly.

i recommend a teatowel under the foil, and a glass on top that doesn't quite create a seal (see on the right, in the pic). as the cap dries, it sheds spores easier, like in nature. otherwise the glass gets all sweaty, and the spores just get stuck:
i doubt that many spores blow away on foggy days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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buh


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: shirley knott]
    #1710908 - 07/13/03 06:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting, I never had a problem before and got excellent prints. It is only with this certain strain (grown out a few times, all with the same characteristic of poor spore production) that I encountered trouble. I will try this out if I ever make a print again :wink:

I can fully understand the logic in this, as excess water could literally stick the spores to the gills...


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OfflineJackal
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710909 - 07/13/03 06:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Doesn't happen to be GC does it?

I had the exact same thing happen on a couple of flushes of GC. Its frustrating but I just put it down to being a trait.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: Jackal]
    #1710912 - 07/13/03 07:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nope, Malabar...

Every once in awhile I would get the cap that really would'nt lay one down as nice as I wanted with every strain, but these are a pain in the arse... 1 print out of about 20 attempts. It would usually come out to be one or two little gill marks of spores, or the more common light dusting.


BTW, you sent me a GC...  :thumbup:


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1710935 - 07/13/03 07:56 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

my malabars laid down dark purple-black spore prints.


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buh


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Offlinehyper_dermic
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: shirley knott]
    #1716889 - 07/15/03 02:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

shirley do you make those prints in open air??

i never understood why prints could be made in open air..
wouldnt there be millions of contams dropping onto my little piece of foil?


[hyp]


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Stubborn spore depositors? Tips? [Re: hyper_dermic]
    #1717404 - 07/15/03 06:05 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

covered with a clean teatowel -

and then reswabbed on foil edges before sealing.


--------------------
buh


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