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Offlineg00ru
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subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind
    #17092346 - 10/24/12 03:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

What is the difference? Most dreams are subconscious material, but sometimes dreams seem to come from elsewhere than the depths of your mind.  Psychedelics too can bring out dreamlike and subconscious states of mind, but also produce transcendental experiences.  What do you think is the relationship between these two states of consciousness, and also our every day waking consciousness, our standard feeling of being?


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17092472 - 10/24/12 03:52 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The more the subconscious comes to light the more we see a magical world not centered around us, not familiar but more interesting. We wake up so we can survive. Survive we do, but when we're done with the eating and fucking, and we let the mind go astray a little bit, and experience true freedom, we slip back into a dream while still awake, and reality begins to shine through the cracks of a nervous system no longer scanning for danger.

The OBE is a transcendental experience. We exist in higher dimensions, and McKenna says we 'cast a shadow into matter'. Quite poetic. I think it's true, given my OBEs; truly nothing was there to relate the experiences to - just  like the birth would have been for me.


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17092481 - 10/24/12 03:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

In my experience I cannot say whether or not some transcendental seeming experiences were me actually going to the places I witnessed and "being there" if you will, or if they were visions created by my subconscious mind. The shamanic mind in me sees that the experiences I'm referring to were visions given to me by my spirit guides somehow, and (referring to past life experiences I've had) were somehow memories of mine that were accessed by my open, waking consciousness. Based on the research I have done after these experiences however, I can say that they could very well be based in reality. Yet they were not shown to me with hashtags in the bottom right part of my vision saying "Past life memory #1" lol, they were simply visions that occurred in my consciousness of other places and people from my perspective. I could definitely say though that the perspective I took was me in a "past" life (actually various past lives, in the vision state I was lasted hours producing many visions that were of this different time different place nature. So now I can't conclude anything, although my shamanic side knows what happened. Still though my linear logic side can't unequivically say this is what happened to me, placing the experience as based in the subconscious mind or anything else.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: jw2234]
    #17092504 - 10/24/12 03:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, what I'm interested in is how we can have dreams and somehow 'know' or strongly feel that they are transcendental and you're right they don't come with hashtags you just have to trust the experience.

I think what they have in common is both states go beyond the rational mind, but subconscious tends to go below it into more base desires where as transcendental is the cosmic and whole aspect that goes beyond.  So to me it seems reasonable that if you had visions lasting hours that you received those for a purpose, probably of past lives


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17092697 - 10/24/12 04:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

When I am given more liberated states of consciousness, like for example when I use marijuana, my imagination becomes incredibly vivid and I have visions simply by focusing on my imagination, take for example a vision I had when I closed my eyes probably during the peak of a MJ experience. First I saw yellow clouds and a black organism scrubbing away something in my vision. When I focused on the black thing, it left at 1000 miles an hour seemingly and I was left with what it was trying to hide and "scrub" away.

It was a vision of an extraterrestrial ship, a massive one. It was in the shape of a donut that had a piece missing, almost like someone cut a bite out of it, like a circle missing a chunk of itself. I was looking at this thing while it was spinning around its center axis. It was made out of a metallic substance, with wood and gold colored metal linings, making it seem rustic yet very higher dimensional in nature, possibly something we could make in the future. I was looking to the right of my vision, seeing this ship, and then I looked to the left, and saw the other part of the ship, the other section of the circle, the donut. As I looked at the left part of the ship, my consciousness phased into that of another being, maybe ME in the ship, maybe another being, yet instantaneously I was inside of this big ship in their library center. I immediately had the intuition, the knowing feeling that this center that I was in was the center of this civilizations knowledge and wisdom, like some of the bigger libraries in the US (library of congress, places like that, like the library at alexandria that was burned down if I have my history correct).

This was a vision that I was given somehow, possibly by the being in the ship whose consciousness I phased into, possibly a past life memory or maybe a future life memory. Yet the receptive state of being that I needed to have in order to have the vision was catalyzed by my using my imagination in combination with the use of MJ, a psychic opener almost. I am very interested now in elucidating the connection imagination has with past life and future life memory, and with the experience of others, the akashic records if you will (the idea that all experience that ever has been had, is being had now, and will ever be had is energetically impressed on space and time somehow and can be accessed, time being relative to the one experiencing it). The idea of experiencing part of the life of another is mind boggling now to me though, and that to me is the most available conclusion to make if it wasn't a subconscious imagining (it had the quality of a memory that I was reliving). Someone somehow choosing to give me and transmit to me a memory they have, an experience they had, psychically, that I received in a more open state of imaginative awareness. What an idea.


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: jw2234]
    #17092820 - 10/24/12 04:55 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jw2234 said:

It was a vision of an extraterrestrial ship, a massive one. It was in the shape of a donut that had a piece missing, almost like someone cut a bite out of it, like a circle missing a chunk of itself. I was looking at this thing while it was spinning around its center axis. It was made out of a metallic substance, with wood and gold colored metal linings, making it seem rustic yet very higher dimensional in nature, possibly something we could make in the future. I was looking to the right of my vision, seeing this ship, and then I looked to the left, and saw the other part of the ship, the other section of the circle, the donut.







^ Either you've seen this video before and it influenced your donut ship experience, or I'm seriously creeped out right now. Donut ships with bites cut out of them seem to be pretty common up in orbit.


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: windowlikcer]
    #17093422 - 10/24/12 06:51 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

well
dreams we know are wonderful things
I had several last night and they certainly were not like waking life.
particularly the nature of time is something odd.

psychedelics
are also very interesting and the kind of combinations produced
are very similar to dreams, and time also seems distorted, stretched and compressed even reversible.

meditation
is a favorite endeavor of mine as well and I can say that the
fragments of sensation and memory that come to light are fascinating
and the way they tend to coalesce is very similar to psychedelics and dreams.
Time is also not as it usually is when meditative absorption begins.

emotional states
are unavoidable but I must say, that when emotional the same kinds of fragments of sensation mixing with linked fragments of memory seem to occur against an unreliable timeline.

As for the terms you used in the OP
particularly transcendent and subconscious, I can sort of accept transcendent as it relates to going beyond the mundane consciousness, where time proceeds in a comfortably linear way, but I do not accept the term subconscious because it alludes to something that really is not there.

All of what is construed as subconscious is actually the associative memory process - but the term 'subconscious' usually suggests:
a) a mental and emotional agency or dominion that is separate from consciousness
b) a process separate and ongoing but parallel to consciousness.
c) everything that happens when we sleep (as if that were not consciousness itself - just sleeping)
d) all the crazy stuff that happens when we are nuts.

In short, I detest the term 'subconscious' and find that the people that need to use it are being as obtuse as Christian zealots, or just being sloppy in not talking about what they really mean, which is memory, conditioning, association, and the sensation patterns (and memory patterns), that trigger memories.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #17093703 - 10/24/12 07:42 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

right, well a fully conscious being obviously wouldn't have a subconscious because they would have total self knowledge. so i have my misgivings about the term as well hehe.  to me the term is useful as kind of an aesthetic descriptor, to explain the difference between types of dreams.

for instance the other night I had a dream where I peed all over a bed while I was naked and then ran out into the living room where there were a bunch of naked girls peeing all over the place. I heard a voice (the source of which was the musical group Animal Collective) tell me "these types of things are normal when you're out on the porch," a sentence which I understood to be metaphorical.  I feel as though most of that material was of a subconscious nature, maybe more of my 'animal' nature if you will.

Quote:

jw2234 said:
When I am given more liberated states of consciousness, like for example when I use marijuana, my imagination becomes incredibly vivid and I have visions simply by focusing on my imagination, take for example a vision I had when I closed my eyes probably during the peak of a MJ experience. First I saw yellow clouds and a black organism scrubbing away something in my vision. When I focused on the black thing, it left at 1000 miles an hour seemingly and I was left with what it was trying to hide and "scrub" away.

It was a vision of an extraterrestrial ship, a massive one. It was in the shape of a donut that had a piece missing, almost like someone cut a bite out of it, like a circle missing a chunk of itself. I was looking at this thing while it was spinning around its center axis. It was made out of a metallic substance, with wood and gold colored metal linings, making it seem rustic yet very higher dimensional in nature, possibly something we could make in the future. I was looking to the right of my vision, seeing this ship, and then I looked to the left, and saw the other part of the ship, the other section of the circle, the donut. As I looked at the left part of the ship, my consciousness phased into that of another being, maybe ME in the ship, maybe another being, yet instantaneously I was inside of this big ship in their library center. I immediately had the intuition, the knowing feeling that this center that I was in was the center of this civilizations knowledge and wisdom, like some of the bigger libraries in the US (library of congress, places like that, like the library at alexandria that was burned down if I have my history correct).

This was a vision that I was given somehow, possibly by the being in the ship whose consciousness I phased into, possibly a past life memory or maybe a future life memory. Yet the receptive state of being that I needed to have in order to have the vision was catalyzed by my using my imagination in combination with the use of MJ, a psychic opener almost. I am very interested now in elucidating the connection imagination has with past life and future life memory, and with the experience of others, the akashic records if you will (the idea that all experience that ever has been had, is being had now, and will ever be had is energetically impressed on space and time somehow and can be accessed, time being relative to the one experiencing it). The idea of experiencing part of the life of another is mind boggling now to me though, and that to me is the most available conclusion to make if it wasn't a subconscious imagining (it had the quality of a memory that I was reliving). Someone somehow choosing to give me and transmit to me a memory they have, an experience they had, psychically, that I received in a more open state of imaginative awareness. What an idea.




this, on the other hand, is an example of a more 'transcendental' dream/vision, or any word you choose to represent that.  I've had dreams like this too but I just wanted to describe my more recent one lol


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17093934 - 10/24/12 08:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

this statement is difficult
"I feel as though most of that material was of a subconscious nature"
no
no
no
there are concepts there (in the dream memory) and activities there (as you recounted) that are not your waking normative type of thing
but the sensations and ideas experienced are very natural to your mind, to your consciousness, when you are on the porch.

- and that little beauty is a bit of a transcendental term

on the porch - meaning - that which extends outward from your floor (baseline), inside to outside (beyond the limited)...

yes that is a fine synthesis of words and ideas - very conscious indeed.

what material in al of that is subconscious?
it is all very conscious. (while sleeping)

please lose the dumb term,
please show a little impatience for muddy thinking.
please help


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #17093956 - 10/24/12 08:32 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

well maybe a better term would be 'basic consciousness.'  Being based lol. Yeah I mean I say that a lot anyways.


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17093970 - 10/24/12 08:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

but then again certain things do seem to come from down within you, there is definitely a quality of 'depth'


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: g00ru]
    #17094299 - 10/24/12 09:22 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ghooru said:
but then again certain things do seem to come from down within you, there is definitely a quality of 'depth'




you mean history (way back depth) or resonance (resounding depth of associations)?
or do you mean the poop, which comes from way down there


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #17094561 - 10/24/12 09:52 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

yeah it's like poop, but on a mental level.


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Re: subconscious vs. transcendental states of mind [Re: windowlikcer]
    #17095034 - 10/24/12 11:02 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Hah nice yeah this is definitely one of my favorite UFO vid's but this ship was massive, definitely a mothership if it could be called that, or just a really big ship. I don't know the scale of the ufo's in the video but the one I was given a glimpse of had a whole diameter of probably a couple hundred yards, if not much more. The cross section of the ship, the circle that is how tall and wide each bit of the donut is was probably 100 feet in diameter as well. It was big.


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