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ryan
Member since 1997
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Posts: 111
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P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables
#17087485 - 10/23/12 06:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can those of you with patches in various area post your average day and night temps, as well as photo-period (length of daylight), at time of first fruiting.
We have a good idea of fruiting temps, but a patch I know of has not fruited despite ideal condition (temp and rain). I suspect length of daylight may play a larger role.
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falcon



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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: ryan]
#17088909 - 10/23/12 09:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you have access to a patch that is fruiting. If you do have one that is fruiting one thing you can try is taking a bit of the substrate from the patch that is fruiting and sloshing it in some water then pour that water on the patch that isn't fruiting.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: falcon]
#17088981 - 10/23/12 09:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the northern hemisphere right now, daylight is just under 12 hours. In my experience in this climate, the caramel cap psilocybes need a few days of good freezing temperatures followed by a slight warm up before they start fruiting. Growers in dry climates need to start watering the patches in late summer to early fall to jump start the process. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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ryan
Member since 1997
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17090707 - 10/24/12 06:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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No access to a fruiting bed. I'm not sure if it will fruit this year. The patch was relocated in the late summer...
Are they fruiting in the NE US yet?
We need people with access to wild fruits to work on finding and collecting samples from the earliest and warmest weather fruits.
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falcon



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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: ryan]
#17094289 - 10/24/12 07:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eh, they may not fruit if you moved them that late, but who knows. IMO once summer starts they shouldn't be messed with.
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ryan
Member since 1997
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: falcon]
#17094804 - 10/24/12 08:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know, but there wasn't an option.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: ryan]
#17094823 - 10/24/12 08:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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My patches generally don't fruit the first year, even when I inoculate them with already colonized sawdust and chips at a high rate. They need 2 years to colonize the bed. That may be from long snowy winters and short dry summers, so if you're in an area like that you may just have to wait for next year. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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ryan
Member since 1997
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: ryan]
#17095147 - 10/24/12 09:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is actually the second year for the patch, but as I said it was moved.
Another previous patch fruited first year.
Sorry to repeat myself, but the thread is not going in the direction I hoped, so...
Are they fruiting in the NE US yet?
Has anyone focused on collecting samples from the earliest and warmest weather fruits.
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clueless
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: ryan]
#17097725 - 10/25/12 08:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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12 days ago Professorpinhead posted a thread titled Psilocybe azurescens Pinning In New England http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17024815#17024815 So yeah it's getting to be that time up here.
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psylosymonreturns
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: clueless]
#17271907 - 11/24/12 12:23 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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i agree with RR that P azurescen needs some cold nights follwed by some wet slightly warmer weeks. i grow azurescen bonsai, so this year i experimented with cold shocking it in the fridge since i can move it. and i got fruits in early october. it hasnt fruited again tho which is wierd. last year it fruited until new years!
but just last week i had a patch in the ground fruit that was inoculated only in the spring. i have a few others that havent done shit but i hope will be ready to go in the second year like RR suggested.
so to answer your question i think it needs night time temps around the 2-5 C mark. day time temps around 6-8 C .( i dont know your faerenheit so you can do the math ) and LOTS of rain!!! we had 2 frosts a few weeks apart before the fruiting as well. hope this helps.
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Magick
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: psylosymonreturns] 2
#17279085 - 11/25/12 01:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ages ago, when I was fortunate enough to live in the PNW, I made a post here regarding the conditions for P. Cyanescens growth versus temperature/rain, and created a chart depicting the average start/end of each season versus these variables using data from the "Official PNW active mushroom" threads.
Originally, it was for just one year - however, I later updated it to include previous years that had data, so the chart now has data from 2004 to 2009.

The jagged line obviously represents temperature for that time of the year. The blue dots at the top of each chart per year represent the average rainfall during that point in time - aka blue represents precipitation, else it was dry during that period. The red lines represent the start and end of the Psilocybe Cyanescens season based upon the points in the corresponding year's Official PNW active finds threads, where the active mushrooms began appearing often and where they started to wane. The temperature/precipitation data is based in Seattle, WA - which I chose as a middle ground between southern British Colombia and Oregon.
There are some variables therefore that can be noted. First, because it is based upon a fixed point of weather representing the average weather for an entire region, people may notice their own patches growing at earlier or later times than represented on the chart, or it may have been rainy in some places but not where the weather data is located.
Also, because some people may water their patches, the "season" may have started earlier than naturally for some years, during supposedly dry periods. However, I did attempt to set the start/end date for each season based upon when the threads became most/least active, and not when the first and last posts concerning active mushrooms were.
However, because the weather in the Pacific Northwest generally affects the whole region, I feel that these charts give a pretty accurate depiction of the conditions which start and end the PNW active mushroom season.
Now, I know this thread is about P. Azurescens - however, azures and cyans share many similarities when it comes to fruiting conditions. They generally pop up pretty much about the same time of year.
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What I've noticed from these charts is that the season generally starts when the temperatures start averaging around 55F throughout the day, usually when lows start dipping below 50F. Rain during this period of time also seems to be a catalyst, though as mentioned before some patches may show up sooner if they are heavily watered. The season usually seems to go until the temperature drops below freezing and doesn't come back up for a decent period of time. However, just because the temperature drops below freezing doesn't mean the season abruptly ends - as is the case in 2006 wherein a sharp drop followed by a sharp rise in temperature is noted - the season did not end with that, and indeed lasted all the way until the next drop. On the other hand, looking at data from 2009, the temperatures started dropping more slowly, and thus even though it rose back up to almost 50F after the freeze, the mushroom season did not continue.
Now, comparing that to my own mushroom hunting experiences, I've always said the best time to hunt for actives in the PNW is any time the temperature has dropped below 50F, and it's been rainy/wet/cloudy outside. I've had the best luck during those gray-skied days when the temperature on the bank's clock said 42F. Whenever those conditions arose, various mushroom species would pop up in the empty field next to my house and I would know then to hit up my cyanescens patch, because they were there .
Some things to consider - the chart data shows that the average temperature needs to be below 55F, however in my experience it needs to be below 50F. Mycelium growing in shaded areas are probably likely to grow sooner because the shade locally dropping the temperature there a few degrees. Also, I don't know whether the cloud cover has anything to do with the mushrooms pinning or not. However, even here in the south I've noticed mushrooms tend to come out when it's cloudy as opposed to sunny - which leads me to believe that INDIRECT light helps to induce pinning of mushrooms in general, and this may be especially true in the PNW where a good portion of the season is covered in gray clouds. Also, it makes sense that the humidity needs to be high before the mushrooms will come out. Rain in itself, as I've also noted in the south, does not cause mushrooms to pop up. However, if the area has been humid for a reasonable period of time, mushrooms are likely to come out. (This usually comes with it being cloudy for a period of time, as well.)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So, with this information, let's consider this on an indoor scale.
If one wanted to induce pinning of a colder-temperature wood-loving species such as P. Cyanescens or P. Azurescens, they would probably want to start by having the mycelium grow anywhere between 60-70F. Room temperature may be fine for this, but I would not go any higher than 75F for these species. As mycelium grows under the ground, it'd be best for this process to take place in the dark.
Once ready to induce pinning, one would have to increase humidity and drop the temperatures below about 50F, which I'd assume would be best to do in a clean refrigerator (wouldn't do it in one you store your food in.) Most refrigerators have adjustable temperature controls so if one desires, they could start the "season" at a temperature relatively close to 50F and drop the temperature as time goes on. However, this probably is not necessary. What would be necessary is the proper controlling of humidity. There are various methods of doing that, however I think the key here would be to make sure that there is always some condensation on the walls of the growing chamber. Also, one should add some light into the whole setup - but as mentioned before, INDIRECT light. I would take into consideration day and night cycles, but don't forget that areas like the PNW have slightly shorter day/night cycles than those closer to the equator.
Things like light, the length of the day/night cycles, and gradual lowering of temperatures may not play that big of a role. However, if I were doing this, I would want to try emulating nature as much as possible. The success rate for indoor cultivation of azurescens/cyanescens seems to be pretty low, and it may just be that the species are more specific to such triggers than species like cubensis - which seem happy to grow pretty much any time :p.
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Workman
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: Magick] 1
#17331788 - 12/04/12 10:18 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nice work, I somehow missed this the first time you posted it.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: Magick]
#17365660 - 12/10/12 04:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
If one wanted to induce pinning of a colder-temperature wood-loving species such as P. Cyanescens or P. Azurescens, they would probably want to start by having the mycelium grow anywhere between 60-70F. Room temperature may be fine for this, but I would not go any higher than 75F for these species. As mycelium grows under the ground, it'd be best for this process to take place in the dark.
Once ready to induce pinning, one would have to increase humidity and drop the temperatures below about 50F, which I'd assume would be best to do in a clean refrigerator (wouldn't do it in one you store your food in.) Most refrigerators have adjustable temperature controls so if one desires, they could start the "season" at a temperature relatively close to 50F and drop the temperature as time goes on. However, this probably is not necessary. What would be necessary is the proper controlling of humidity.
Good info all round and agrees with my experience cultivating Ps. cyan indoors (in a spare fridge). 
PS
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Magick
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: PrimalSoup]
#17370417 - 12/10/12 08:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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PrimalSoup: Can you give us some details on your setup?
Did you use indirect light? How'd you control temperatures, etc.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: P. azurescens fruiting triggers and variables [Re: Magick]
#17371128 - 12/10/12 10:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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It was a while ago (maybe 20 years) but sure. Substrate was generally wood chips in plastic trays, light was provided by a small (12"?) grolight bulb inside the fridge at the top in a fixture, temp was around 50 degrees controlled by the temp setting of the fridge. I may have cracked the door seal a bit to get FAE but don't recall for sure. There was no window in the fridge and it was not a frostfree model so it kept a steady temp - I think the last is important. As to humidity I'm not sure, pretty sure I just misted them a couple times a day.
If I was going to do this again I'd modify a wine chiller size used one to cool a larger chamber; I'd put the usual timer controlled fan ventilation in; and I'd bring the light in through some windows with high K bulbs. Would use a humidifer to control the RH probably.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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