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 MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿
Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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 Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale 
#17068419 - 10/20/12 04:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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As it happens, some people are prone to a certain state called depersonalisation and are sometimes inflicted with a disorder of that very state. It's a dissociative disorder of sorts. I myself have been in this state for years until it finally started clearing out and I noted that some drugs and psychedelics in particular seem to have a dissociative element in them that can sometimes stimulate this state. Just like there are some drugs that contain less elements of dissociation.
Now, in the process of getting over it, I learned not to be uncomfortable in this state, but I never quite learned how to enjoy it either. So I wonder. Of all psychedelics you know such as lucy, shrooms, lsa, mescaline, etc. (and even other drugs) which ones, by your personal experience, have the most and the least dissociative effects? Rank them so that number one is the most dissociative in their nature and the last one the least. Just curios and I want to have som input in the case that I would want to avoid more dissociative drugs.
Think this could be useful for many people out there as well 
--------------------
    Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:
"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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 Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast 
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Good thread, ill be glad to give my input to help others out going through it. Definitaly a cool fuckin mental illness, but sure a scary one. I haven't had it for a long time. It was from anxieties in life that i had to learn to face, and once i did i snapped out of it. It's your bodies way of protecting you from stressing out all the time.
LSD helped the most overall. Ketamine is a big help becaue of the serotonin reuptake properties, yet also wasn't at same time because it IS a dissociative. Same deal with dxm (dxm is ehh), it was mainly only helpful after a few days after use because of the body load and dissociation getting in the way of its serotonergic properties. Mj made it the worst. Alcohol helped at first then the next day did the opposite. Molly helped BIG TIME then the next day did the opposite. Tobacco helps, but when withdrawing makes it worse. LSA helped almost as much as LSD. Mushrooms can either seriously help it, or make it worse ten fold. Opiates (didn't do much & wont) did help at first, next day the opposite. Amphetamine helps at first, next day makes worse.
Dp is best cured through having a good mental, physical, and chemical homeostasis, chemical meaning your dopamine & serotonin. good sleep, exercise, eating well, facing your problems head on, and learning to not overthink shit and be in the moment, not in your head. Music is huge too....oh, and having someone to love 
I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
Edited by Jvells (03/31/14 06:51 PM)
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿
Registered: 05/21/09
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Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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 Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17068580 - 10/20/12 05:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jvells said:
Good thread, ill be glad to give my input to help others out going through it. Definitaly a cool fuckin mental illness, but sure a scary one. I haven't had it for a long time. It was from anxieties in life that i had to learn to face, and once i did i snapped out of it. It's your bodies way of protecting you from stressing out all the time.
LSD helped the most overall. Ketamine is a big help, and dxm (dxm is ehh) is helpful too a few days after use. Mj made it the worst. Alcohol helped at first then the next day did the opposite. Molly helped BIG TIME then the next day did the opposite. Tobacco helps, but when withdrawing makes it worse. LSA helped almost as much as LSD. Mushrooms can either seriously help it, or make it worse ten fold. Opiates (didn't do much & wont) did help at first, next day the opposite. Amphetamine helps at first, next day makes worse.
Dp is best cured through having a good mental, physical, and chemical homeostasis, chemical meaning your dopamine & serotonin. good sleep, exercise, eating well, facing your problems head on, and learning to not overthink shit and be in the moment, not in your head. Music is huge too....oh, and having someone to love
I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
That is great input! I'm very surprised to see ketamine to help. To me, weed makes it harder for the time that you're high. But once you master the experience it gets easier and easier to ease into it. Next day you feel fine. Spot on with the mushrooms! But again, it can get more complicated than that. I remember once having an intense trip that seemed to make it worse, but at the end it was like having been in purgatory. It helped a lot in that instance and even left some benefit afterwards. Some quite essential elements to getting better in the future actually.
I would also highlight the benzos, which seem to help a lot for a few days even! Especially xanax. But i suppose if you keep using the you'll eventually reach the point where it stops working because it's actually about overcoming the fears inside.
Anyone got input on mescaline perhaps? And acid. To be I'm not too sure with acid. Don't feel like i've done it enough times in that state to be able to make a conclusion.
Also, Jvells, do you perchance also have experience the disorder first hand? You sound like it. Share
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:
"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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Tbone W
Jergens
Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 755
Loc: OH, USA
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17068583 - 10/20/12 05:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
Well said Jvells
In my experience mushrooms have helped me with any anxiety I had from things going on in my life. It had the most "long lasting" effect which hasn't gone away yet. But these anxieties can give you a very bad trip on mushies. They aren't the most enjoyable trips but damn they are beneficial. Molly helps a lot but fades. Pot can give me so many perspectives on situations both positive and negative.
1. Healthy Mind & Body Sober
2. Mushrooms
3. Marijuana
4. Morning Glory Seeds
5. Molly
6. Alcohol
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"The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe" -Terrence Mckenna
Exploding Your Mysticism
  
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xbloodwhipx
Registered: 02/24/12
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17068585 - 10/20/12 05:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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If i were you i would avoid DXM and ketamine at all cost, they put you in a dissociated state, they are dissociatives. Not good for depersonalization.
The only real psychedelics i have experience with are shrooms and LSA. They didnt make my depersonalization worse, but who knows how they will effect you.
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: xbloodwhipx]
#17068633 - 10/20/12 05:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dissociatives like K and dex helped me and im positive of that. Reason being they boost your serotonin for a long time & are a great cure at the moment for depression. K always helped with it, dex seemed dirtier so for a few days i felt shitty physically but around day three i was clear and you can feel that serotonin boost. I can imagine with some it might make it worse.
Benzossss. Yeah they def help at times, without a doubt, but taking them days in a row made it worse. plus that numbing feeling can add to the dp, what dp sufferers are looking for is that clear headed, in tune, awake, alive and in control feeling...something LSD always does a good job doing.
One more thing to add, take your fish oils. Studies show it helps with cognition so im sure it can help at least a little bit and cant hurt. Been taking mine daily for a year at least now, i feel confident in saying they're worth the time & money.
Edited by Jvells (10/20/12 05:42 PM)
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17068657 - 10/20/12 05:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ohhh yeah, and mescaline kicked ass. I'd say on par with L. Cant forget DOC either, this RC has good potential too, albeit prob not as much as L.
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PeanutButter
Stranger
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17068741 - 10/20/12 05:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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I suffered from this as a kid before I ever took drugs and the one thing that seemed to really fix things for me was a good pure but lowish dose of MDMA (About 0.2g). Everyone is different but shrooms and LSD made me more introverted and didn't really seem to give me much enlightenment until I'd gotten over this depersonalization with MDMA. I feel like MDMA sewed up a hole in my personality and LSD/Mushrooms laid the foundations for a new beginning and helped get my life on track and set me in the direction I wanted to go.
EDIT: I would say with MDMA though, it does require effort on the person's behalf too. It won't force you into realizations like LSD or Shrooms might, so it probably won't work if you use it to escape. You need to kind of learn from it and keep those life lessons learned in your mind.
Edited by PeanutButter (10/20/12 05:53 PM)
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Unknown_Tripper
Stranger
Registered: 09/27/12
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Tbone W]
#17068907 - 10/20/12 06:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tbone W said:
I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
Well said Jvells
In my experience mushrooms have helped me with any anxiety I had from things going on in my life. It had the most "long lasting" effect which hasn't gone away yet. But these anxieties can give you a very bad trip on mushies. They aren't the most enjoyable trips but damn they are beneficial. Molly helps a lot but fades. Pot can give me so many perspectives on situations both positive and negative.
1. Healthy Mind & Body Sober
2. Mushrooms
3. Marijuana
4. Morning Glory Seeds
5. Molly
6. Alcohol
I definitly agree with you that mushrooms help with anziety, I munched 100 yesterday and feel great afterwards, feel like something has been released and i feel energised and feel i have more drive...
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Don't die in fear when they come for you
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Sammysong
Dreamer
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: PeanutButter]
#17068925 - 10/20/12 06:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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When ranking various drugs according to the various levels of psychedelic personalization brings, why not put them into categories? (e.g. tryptamines, phenethylamines, dissociatives, and deliriants)
Even though we could categorize (e.g) LSD as both a trytamine and phenethylamine, while it also contains some dissociative effects (at higher doses), I would say Ketamine (abuse) would induce this state at a faster rate, than say a 'classic psychedelic' (such as LSD, etc)
Dissociative: Mind separated from body
Psychedelics: Mind blends with the body, it seems.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong; interesting thread though.
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xbloodwhipx
Registered: 02/24/12
Posts: 12,791
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Sammysong]
#17068931 - 10/20/12 06:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sammysong said:
Psychedelics: Mind blends with the body, it seems.
Could you explain that a little more?
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: xbloodwhipx]
#17069749 - 10/20/12 08:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
xbloodwhipx said:
Quote:
Sammysong said:
Psychedelics: Mind blends with the body, it seems.
Could you explain that a little more?
My input on that is high doses of L make me feel at one with everything, fucking tough to explain but that's the best language can do. Dissociatives litteraly make me feel like I have left my body. You'll snap out out your k hole and be like dah fuck? I have a body...that's right. Not something LSD can't do in high doses though! So yeah it is confusing how they are classed but here's my take...
I really dont know it's so hard to explain but I get what he means. Different drugs act on different receptors...NMDA antagonists are dissociatives, and psyches mostly act on 5ht receptors and this is why they are classed differently as drugs. Opiates release endophins...mj acts on cannibinoid receptors and thats why its difficult to class it as a psychedelic...but its effects closely resemble those of a psych and that's why we class it as such.
Now don't take my word on all this, i BELIEVE i am right but I may be wrong on a thing or two. Correct me otherwise 
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Rorge
Scoundrel
Registered: 10/25/10
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Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17069937 - 10/20/12 09:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jvells said:
Good thread, ill be glad to give my input to help others out going through it. Definitaly a cool fuckin mental illness, but sure a scary one. I haven't had it for a long time. It was from anxieties in life that i had to learn to face, and once i did i snapped out of it. It's your bodies way of protecting you from stressing out all the time.
LSD helped the most overall. Ketamine is a big help, and dxm (dxm is ehh) is helpful too a few days after use. Mj made it the worst. Alcohol helped at first then the next day did the opposite. Molly helped BIG TIME then the next day did the opposite. Tobacco helps, but when withdrawing makes it worse. LSA helped almost as much as LSD. Mushrooms can either seriously help it, or make it worse ten fold. Opiates (didn't do much & wont) did help at first, next day the opposite. Amphetamine helps at first, next day makes worse.
Dp is best cured through having a good mental, physical, and chemical homeostasis, chemical meaning your dopamine & serotonin. good sleep, exercise, eating well, facing your problems head on, and learning to not overthink shit and be in the moment, not in your head. Music is huge too....oh, and having someone to love
I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
Damn man, some accurate information.
I had dp for many months, it was hell. When it first started every second of my existence was a living hell. I quit doing all drugs for about 5 months after having been a daily pot smoker. To be exact though I did smoke weed like 3 times and did a couple benzos and oxys and drank alcohol, but for the most part I was entirely stone cold sober and deathly afraid of drugs.
In every word in your post you are hitting the nail on the head. Your description of how each individual drug effects the dp is exactly how I experienced (oxy, alcohol, weed are the only ones I did at the time).
DP is quite mysterious. It's impossible to wrap your head around it, you just need learn to be with it and begin to process your feelings and be as honest with yourself as you can. And live life of course!
I think anyone that develops dp and "works through it" will have a very different thinking process and outlook on life afterward.
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Rorge]
#17069995 - 10/20/12 09:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn straight . Those who get dp are blessed. Because once you break out of it, it's enlightenment at its best, like being born again almost. blessed at birth. 
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿
Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Sammysong]
#17071016 - 10/21/12 03:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sammysong said:
When ranking various drugs according to the various levels of psychedelic personalization brings, why not put them into categories? (e.g. tryptamines, phenethylamines, dissociatives, and deliriants)
Even though we could categorize (e.g) LSD as both a trytamine and phenethylamine, while it also contains some dissociative effects (at higher doses), I would say Ketamine (abuse) would induce this state at a faster rate, than say a 'classic psychedelic' (such as LSD, etc)
Dissociative: Mind separated from body
Psychedelics: Mind blends with the body, it seems.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong; interesting thread though.
There's no need to. There's a perfect diagram for this on the interwebs somewhere. It shows these four main circles "psychedelic" "depressants" "stimulants" "anti-psychotic " those act as the 4 main branches. psychedelics has three circles within going "psychedelic" "deliriants" and "dissociatives". Then many known drugs are depicted as a single dot. The dots position is usually within a certain branch of drugs, but leans towards another branch at the same time. That is to say that even psychedelic substances like mushrooms have dissociative qualities to them although the are mostly of psychedelic nature. People with depersonalization are very sensitive to the dissociative effects drugs possess and are either uncomfortable or not pleased with it. And though the diagram I talked about has many drugs listed on them, it didn't cover that many hallucinogens. Mainly LSD and Shrooms. So I was wondering about other people's experiences out there.
Quote:
Rorge said:
Quote:
Jvells said:
Good thread, ill be glad to give my input to help others out going through it. Definitaly a cool fuckin mental illness, but sure a scary one. I haven't had it for a long time. It was from anxieties in life that i had to learn to face, and once i did i snapped out of it. It's your bodies way of protecting you from stressing out all the time.
LSD helped the most overall. Ketamine is a big help, and dxm (dxm is ehh) is helpful too a few days after use. Mj made it the worst. Alcohol helped at first then the next day did the opposite. Molly helped BIG TIME then the next day did the opposite. Tobacco helps, but when withdrawing makes it worse. LSA helped almost as much as LSD. Mushrooms can either seriously help it, or make it worse ten fold. Opiates (didn't do much & wont) did help at first, next day the opposite. Amphetamine helps at first, next day makes worse.
Dp is best cured through having a good mental, physical, and chemical homeostasis, chemical meaning your dopamine & serotonin. good sleep, exercise, eating well, facing your problems head on, and learning to not overthink shit and be in the moment, not in your head. Music is huge too....oh, and having someone to love
I can do all these drugs without dp now, im sure it could come back if i started losing a grip on my life, but i currenty just about have a perfect grip on my drug use. Live sober, use occasionaly, and work on your life to live a good life later. Be smart, think logically.
Damn man, some accurate information.
I had dp for many months, it was hell. When it first started every second of my existence was a living hell. I quit doing all drugs for about 5 months after having been a daily pot smoker. To be exact though I did smoke weed like 3 times and did a couple benzos and oxys and drank alcohol, but for the most part I was entirely stone cold sober and deathly afraid of drugs.
In every word in your post you are hitting the nail on the head. Your description of how each individual drug effects the dp is exactly how I experienced (oxy, alcohol, weed are the only ones I did at the time).
DP is quite mysterious. It's impossible to wrap your head around it, you just need learn to be with it and begin to process your feelings and be as honest with yourself as you can. And live life of course!
I think anyone that develops dp and "works through it" will have a very different thinking process and outlook on life afterward.
I agree. There's a lot I can relate to in Jvells post as well. To be specific on the mushroom part, low doses of mush are easy to handle and are beneficial for a week or so. On high doses it is much easier to steer the wrong way, but if you steer it right you'll end up with tangible knowledge that will help you months and months ahead to deal with the core issue of dp. Quite fascinating actually. Yeah dp is mysterious. At first it felt like a curse, but later on it started feeling more like a tril because you seem to overcome it more and more when you deal with things that are inside you. Dp has made me quite fierce and fearless because one of the ways to getting better was learning to ease into various dp-drug combo states that were first really uncomfortable to me. But once I started letting go completely and meditating a lot, dp turned into somewhat of a teacher, in a rather harsh sense to be sure...
Quote:
Jvells said:
Damn straight . Those who get dp are blessed. Because once you break out of it, it's enlightenment at its best, like being born again almost. blessed at birth.
That's an interesting thought. I must say I find that comment fascinating because I feel like im almost out of the woods on dp (my head is feeling clearer and clearer, things seem spacial bit by bit again, worrying less, doing what i like and actually enjoying life as it is) and the healing truly started after confronting a lot of fears and issues inside my mind. I truly feel like i've become a different person. A better one.
Does anyone esle have any input on this topic? Also, to everyone- in your experience, would you say LSD is easier on dp than mushrooms are? And why?
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:
"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿
Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Shameless self-bump.
What? No more input from anyone?
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:
"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Yeah justt a quick question. Anyone, while undergoing dp, ever wonder if fate is real? I dont believe it now since i dont have it anymore...but idk, anxiety can really put me that in my head ive litterally lost control....such an overactive mind. Almost like...something is controlling you or so some shit? May sound whack but it was something i pondered at points. I dont believe it now necessarily, but the disorder is so odd you never know really...
Prob a dumb q but worth asking.
Edited by Jvells (10/22/12 07:45 PM)
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Jvells
Unity
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17081332 - 10/22/12 07:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh and i read this theory that dp can be caused from larger than normal amounts of dmt being produced while awake. Interestingg
Edited by Jvells (10/23/12 08:47 AM)
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xbloodwhipx
Registered: 02/24/12
Posts: 12,791
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17081396 - 10/22/12 07:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jvells said:
Oh and i read this theory that dp can be caused from larger than normal amounts of dp being produced while awake. Interestingg
What do you mean larger amounts of depersonalization being produced while awake?
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Seekingtruth
Learnererer
Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 2,056
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 2 years, 20 days
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Re: Psychedelic depersonalizaton scale [Re: Jvells]
#17081416 - 10/22/12 07:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Could u guys go into and explain dp for the new folks???
I think I have experienced this, but am unsure since there is no explanation.
I got to a point In abusing substances where I felt worthless, goals scared me, the bought of making a decision bothered me like everything was a crossroads in my life, very introverted - this was positive and negative in that i was scared to get out, meet people, look for a girlfriend or fuck buddy, etc, but positive in that I felt like i could think my way through any issue (as long as it had nothing to do with my life!!!)
I could go on, but basically the natural, human impulses like sex drive were gone and replaced by need for information and want of learning why.....
I'm not sure if this is wht we are talkin about here!
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