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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules?
    #1706625 - 07/11/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone else following this? Looks like overtime pay for 40+ hours worked in a week is under fire...

Bush has a green light and will be cutting overtime pay for more than 8 million employees in the US... Only thing not clear is who exactly will be effected by this... Articals talk about blue collar and white collar workers but are vague about who exactly gets screwed and who dont...

Anyone else know exactly whats going on?


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1706656 - 07/11/03 07:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's yet another policy to make the rich richer, and everyone else poorer.  :mad: 


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Anonymous

Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1706743 - 07/11/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Wouldn't something big like this hurt the economy? I can't believe they want to do this. This is the worst administration in american history.


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: ]
    #1706788 - 07/11/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Not true at all baby.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1706857 - 07/11/03 08:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cornholio writes:

It's yet another policy to make the rich richer, and everyone else poorer.

Incorrect. I have excerpted some relevant points from http://www.newstribune.com/stories/032703/bus_0327030906.asp --

Quote:

Proposal extends overtime to low-income workers, cuts some professionals' pay


WASHINGTON (AP) -- About 640,000 white-collar workers could lose overtime pay, while more than a million low-income employees could begin to earn it under a White House proposal to overhaul decades-old labor laws.

The changes being suggested Thursday by the Labor Department revamp a section of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act that defines blue-collar and white-collar workers and determines who must be paid a time-and-a-half hourly rate for working more than 40 hours a week.

About 110 million workers are covered by the complex regulations, which have not been updated in 28 years.

The Bush administration also is pursuing other revisions to workplace regulations and programs, including the Family Medical Leave Act, job training programs and unemployment insurance. The overtime proposal is subject to a 90-day public comment period. Final regulations, which would not require congressional action, probably would not take effect until late this year or early in 2004.

Business groups long have complained that the complicated rules, which contain outdated job descriptions and salary levels, require overtime pay for already well-compensated and highly skilled professionals.

Workers now are exempt from overtime pay if they earn more than $155 a week, or $8,060 a year, and meet other convoluted, confusing job criteria, such as devoting at least 80 percent of their time to "exercising discretion" and other "intellectual" tasks that cannot be "standardized in ... a given period of time."

The proposal would raise the salary cap to $425 a week, or $22,100 a year, and any worker earning less automatically would be required to receive overtime pay.

Jobs most affected by the changes likely would be assistant managers of stores, restaurants and bars, McCutchen said. They would get overtime pay despite their management status as long as they earn less than $22,100 a year.


With the proposed changes, employers could face $334 million to $895 million in direct payroll costs for the 1.3 million low-wage workers estimated to become eligible for overtime pay. Overall, businesses could face costs of $870 million to $1.57 billion to implement new requirements.




Far from "soaking the poor" and "aiding the rich" (corporations), the reverse is true. Businesses will face increased costs while more workers than ever before will be eligible for overtime.

Google is a wonderful thing.

pinky


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1706976 - 07/11/03 09:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Forced overtime pay simply puts a cap on how many hours a person is able to work one job (or lowers their pay when an employer knows a person will get a lot of overtime). Most employers I know simply don't allow their employees who are eligible for the forced overtime to top 40 hours a week. Any employee who wants more hours has to pick up a part time job in addition to their full time job (note that part time jobs generally pay less). Now tell me how exactly ending mandates for overtime pay (which unfortunately is not what happened) is going to hurt workers?


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1707427 - 07/12/03 01:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

English Lesson- Sorry. This is not meant as a flame of any sort.
Effect is a noun. Like Sound Effect.
Affect is a verb. Like affect=alter. they start with a so remember it that way.

It's easy! My teacher told me this in 8th grade, and I was jus tlike "brain, remember this, or I'll drown you!"

Then a few years later I went and drowned it anyway, but that is another story.


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Phred]
    #1707672 - 07/12/03 02:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, if you make between $8,060 and $22,100 and if you're currently not eligible for overtime pay this will be good for you (although everyone I know whose pay falls in that range is already eligible for overtime pay).

However, if you make over $22,100, then it will be easier to make you a salaried employee and take your overtime pay away.  I think there are a lot more people in the $22,100+ salary range that stand to lose overtime than there are in the $22,100- that will gain it, since most people in that low range are already getting overtime.    :shocked:   


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1711669 - 07/13/03 04:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that's a good point...


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1712291 - 07/13/03 08:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Now tell me how exactly ending mandates for overtime pay (which unfortunately is not what happened) is going to hurt workers?


Because then no one gets paid for overtime. Not working overtime is better than working overtime for free.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1712863 - 07/14/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think this is a good idea.
The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 spelled who is eligible for overtime pay and who is exempt-- mainly professionals and uppermanagement types. This will help out the middle class retail and service industry "professionals" as Pinkysharks article points out. I was bilked out of overtime pay from a clerical type job because I made more than the archaic minimun weekly wage. Now it looks like you'll have to make close to $11 an hour to gain exemption status.
Heres a link to a FLSA overview that discusses exemption status.
Link


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1713103 - 07/14/03 01:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
Because then no one gets paid for overtime. Not working overtime is better than working overtime for free.



You would still get paid for overtime you just wouldn't get paid extra for overtime.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1713132 - 07/14/03 01:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've read that the new rules would make more people salaried employees, who generally don't get paid overtime.

But even if you're correct, this means the end of the 40 hour workweek.  Now employers can work people to death without having to pay them overtime.  This is a big step backwards.  Next thing you know, paid vacations will go away...  :mad2: 


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1713166 - 07/14/03 02:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

...and by the way, the people that are most likely to want to work over 40 hours per week are the people who aren't making much and are still protected by the new rules. The ones who earn more and don't need to work more than 40 hours per week will be screwed because their employers have no more incentive to let them go home on time. I would never want to work more than 40 hours a week unless I were given some decent compensation (time and a half at least), but now I might have to.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1713195 - 07/14/03 02:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
...and by the way, the people that are most likely to want to work over 40 hours per week are the people who aren't making much and are still protected by the new rules. The ones who earn more and don't need to work more than 40 hours per week will be screwed because their employers have no more incentive to let them go home on time. I would never want to work more than 40 hours a week unless I were given some decent compensation (time and a half at least), but now I might have to.



I work sometimes 50 to 60 hours a week if its the holiday season or because someone is on vacation.. Theirs always work to be done at my job and even though Im not required to stay and finish things, I do it because it needs to get done... The majority of the work force out their is the same way and theirs gona be millions of people who may end up on salary, working the same hours and making much less...

Im union though and our union bargainers will never allow salary for full time butchers, management is already salary but they make enough to justify 60 hours a week.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1713244 - 07/14/03 02:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cornholio said-

The ones who earn more and don't need to work more than 40 hours per week will be screwed because their employers have no more incentive to let them go home on time.

If they are professionals and don't need to stay more than forty hours a week to do their job then they leave on time. Professionals (white collar types) don;t punch timeclocks and they usually don't have to ask their boss for permission to go home at 5. Usually their boss wants to get the hell out at 5 pm if he can help it so why would he want to stick around later than he has to to supervise? Like gabba dj said you finish the job no matter how long it takes, overtime or not. Besides, many professionals get bonuses around chrstmas or their birthday that can make up for a lack of overtime due to exemption status. A roommate of mine just got $5000 bonus on his B day and he rarely works over 40 hours a week. Your typical full time hourly paid clerk at a department store would never see bonus money like that. So in some cases, the pay evens out.


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: MrBump]
    #1713320 - 07/14/03 03:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that traditional professionals generally aren't making overtime as it is, but get other perks. But now nurses, assistant managers, and even cooks would be screwed out of overtime. These people don't get bonuses, and have nothing to look forward to with the new rules.

This morning, a newspaper reported that 1.3 million people making between $8,060 and $22,100 would benefit from overtime time pay, while up to 9.3 million people making above $22,100 would lose their overtime.


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Edited by Cornholio (07/14/03 03:22 AM)


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1713340 - 07/14/03 03:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Not all companies will stop paying employees overtime... It will be up to them if they want to or not and many will but many still wont...

I cant find anything about "Split Shift Pay"... Ive heard that people who have more than a two hour unpaid break in the day are classified as split shift workers and that their is suposed to be a pay increase for the second part of the shift...

I work split shift all the time but I dont get anything like this..

Only thing I can find is that minors working split shift are suposed to get 1 hour paid at minimum wage for working a split but I cant find anything for adults...

Anyone else hear of this?


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1713368 - 07/14/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cornholio said:

I agree that traditional professionals generally aren't making overtime as it is, but get other perks. But now nurses, assistant managers, and even cooks would be screwed out of overtime. These people don't get bonuses, and have nothing to look forward to with the new rules.


I guess you didn't click my link to what defines exemption status...
There are other criteria for getting the exemption besides earnings.

And like Gabbadj said, this gives the employer the OPTION to exempt employees... the company may have the vested interest to keep an employee happy by still paying Overtime.


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There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Sooo whats with the new OVertime rules? [Re: MrBump]
    #1713692 - 07/14/03 10:25 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thecornking said:
I guess you didn't click my link to what defines exemption status...
There are other criteria for getting the exemption besides earnings.


The link was dated 2000, so I was under the impression those are the old exemption rules.


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