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Offlinechefinainteasy
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testing a flow hood for perfect flow * 1
    #17064347 - 10/19/12 09:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have only been using my hood for about a month now and am still VERY new to lab procedures and the flow hoods use. The basics are there just with no true experience. I have had complete success so far with all of my agar work. Grain spawn on the other hand is 50% successful at best. About the same goes for my sawdust blocks, but im assuming the grain spawn it to blame. Now that said i have just recently started sterilizing my grains at home instead of at work and transporting home then inoculating. I feel this has a lot to do with my failures. Im also working of being cleaner as in wearing a tyvek suit and face mask.

Now all half assed lab procedures aside, i want to rule out the flow hood as an issue. I read about eddies, vortices's, ripples, or basically uneven flow not achieving true laminar flow. How do i test for these issues. Im sure the blower and filter are matched fine. I have held a lighter in front of the hood and it gets a 90ish degree bend without blowing out. What else can i do to insure my flow hood is operating optimally?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #17064556 - 10/19/12 10:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

A few sticks of incense will allow you to see any turbulence or vortexes, etc.
RR


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17065786 - 10/20/12 06:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I can do that. Im assuming just put a few on the sides and center of the flow and watch? Ill be checking today, thank you.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #17066127 - 10/20/12 09:13 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes.  Especially watch for air from outside the flow hood work space being drawn into the work area.  If the flow is heavier on one side than the other this will occur, as will vortexes, etc.
RR


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17068008 - 10/20/12 03:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I test my flow hood periodically by placing on open petri dish in its airstream for an hour or two.  I realize this only covers the area its sitting in, but if you placed several around your space you could test the whole area.  If you see growth in any of them after a week of incubation, consider it to be a pretty big problem.

Edited by laughingsol (10/20/12 03:46 PM)

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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: laughingsol]
    #17070164 - 10/20/12 10:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well the "insense check" seems ok. Good flow from side to side. Since i have the hood recessed in the wall there were no side interferences. I did notice the smoke pulling into the blower the closer to the top and far sides of the hood i got but i assumed there would be some pull back into the blower at some point. No visible swirling or vortices's. Seems like i just need to clean up my procedures. I did a run today in full suit, showered, face mask, and 30 minutes of run time before entering so hopefully i will have some positive results finally.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #17070188 - 10/20/12 10:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

chefinainteasy said:
and 30 minutes of run time before entering so hopefully i will have some positive results finally.




Use an hour or two of pre-run time to clean up the air in the room before starting.  It also helps to mist water into the air, so the droplets can catch and drag contaminants to the floor.
RR


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17070234 - 10/20/12 10:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I do an all around lysol spray im assuming this mist will have the same effect. Now that said how long until i am "clean" to start working? I usually get in there and suited, wipe my suit down with bleach, then do a light cleaning of surfaces before opening bags or doing transfers. Probably about 10 min maybe less. Is this enough?


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Check out my youtube videos. the Mushrooms Naturally series by chefinainteasy

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                                                                                                                            MY Garden:grin:

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #17070373 - 10/20/12 11:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'd run the flowhood for at least an hour before doing all that.  Two hours is better.  Spray the face of the flowhood filter with Lysol before starting it up.

I use Lysol for surfaces, but it's useless in the air.  Use plain water.  You can add  bleach to it, but plain water will bring the contaminants harmlessly to the floor.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17079500 - 10/22/12 02:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I always worry about spraying 10 percent bleach or alcohol into the air while the hood  is going since it gets sucked into the filter, although I do it all the damn time.  Do you think this degrades the filter over time or are they made to handle such things?  I understand that most are made of glass fibers and it seems like these would not be effected by such things, ....am i just a worry wart?

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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #17080545 - 10/22/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I shut the hood off when I'm bleach bombing.  I don't want the paper prefilter to get damp because it cuts way down on flow.  The bleach also settles slower and stays in the air longer without the draft caused by the flowhood.
RR


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17083573 - 10/23/12 05:17 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
A few sticks of incense will allow you to see any turbulence or vortexes, etc.
RR




Nice tip, thanks!


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17084496 - 10/23/12 10:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
A few sticks of incense will allow you to see any turbulence or vortexes, etc.
RR




C,mon RR.  We know what you use to test your vortexes! :jah:

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Invisibleserotonin storm
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #17084683 - 10/23/12 10:57 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
A few sticks of incense will allow you to see any turbulence or vortexes, etc.
RR




C,mon RR.  We know what you use to test your vortexes! :jah:




:lol:


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Offlinethenilsmeister
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18149696 - 04/22/13 12:59 PM (11 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
A few sticks of incense will allow you to see any turbulence or vortexes, etc.
RR




C,mon RR.  We know what you use to test your vortexes! :jah:




lmao

Been having about 50% success of grainspawn too with my hood in my apartment all of a sudden (springtime maybe?) Up until now its been about a 10% contamination rate. Looks like im going to have to start bleach bombing or figure something out. I am going to get a chair, tyvek suit, and a proper surgeons mask. Fucking had it with mold. Any other advice on getting contamination rates down when working in a apartment environment?


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: testing a flow hood for perfect flow [Re: thenilsmeister]
    #18162140 - 04/24/13 04:30 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Def more mold in the air during spring summer. Be sure to work very close the the filter. Look at other things like old sfd's or improperly sterilized grain as problems. Don't just blame the hood. Tyvek sleeves and gloves? Absolutely. I use them every day.

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OfflineDmix005
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18162226 - 04/24/13 04:48 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Hello,

I'm about to build a flow hood...I think I have the right parts picked and I just wanted to make sure of that before i ordered it.

The filter I want to use is 24X24X5 

my calculations are:

= 4ft^2 * 100 FPM = 400ft^3/min

= 400ft^3/min + 10%-20% for inefficiencies

= 440 to 480 cfm (call it 500)

so now, as I understand it, I need a blower that can push 500cfm at the filter's static pressure.  I've put the link for the filter below as well as a pic with the info:


FILTER LINK



I'm pretty sure that "Pressure Drop in Inches Water Guage" is the static pressure for the corresponding airflow (is that right?)

so, looking at the green line, I need a blower that can move 500cfm at about 0.35 Inches. I went to Grainger and found this one:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-PSC-Blower-1TDT2?Pid=search

Have I done this right?

I also have one other concern.  In my research, I keep reading that the blower is a small cost of building a flow hood, but this one is $185, more than the hepa filter.  Is this normal? or have I picked the wrong blower?

Looking forward to you Feedback

Thanks!

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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Dmix005]
    #18162862 - 04/24/13 06:39 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

1tdt2 will be more than enuff blower for that filter. You will likely need to stack a coupla prefilters or just cover part of the intake.

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OfflineDmix005
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18163099 - 04/24/13 07:25 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Thanks!! :laugh:

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OfflineDmix005
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Dmix005]
    #18163241 - 04/24/13 07:53 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

I just realized the link for the filter didn't work

here it is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HEPA-CORP-24-X-24-HEPA-PLEAT-II-FILTER-ENCLOSURE-HD24W112C5-/230968851153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c6d0fad1

the spec says 344 cfm @ .29 W.G.

Im a little confused now...



I used this pic before but its for a 24x24x5 filter whereas the one on ebay is 24x24x5 and 7/8.  I doubt theyre the same.

can i figure out what blower to get with just the info i have (344 @ .29)?

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Offlineindahighcountry
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Dmix005]
    #18163563 - 04/24/13 08:56 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Dmix

1) start your own thread

2) an extra 7/8 is going to make a difference but not truly significant, buy a "slightly" overpowered fan and use pre-filters as needed to reduce flow to steady laminar

if you're not working in a clean room then build a small enclosure for your work area to prevent air from the sides getting in - the top piece is worth using glass vs lexan or other plastic since it doesn't get cloudy over time from wiping with alcohol

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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: indahighcountry]
    #18163898 - 04/24/13 10:03 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

thanks for the response :smile:

I would start my own thread but I don't have that priveledge :S

While this has been helpful...I'm still not ready to make a purchase.  There are still unanswered questions in my previous posts and I think they're important.  following is a summary:

1) have I done the math right?
2) have I correctly identified the filter's Static Pressure?
3) have I selected the right blower?
4) Am I overpaying for the blower at $185?
5) Is the spec (344 CFM @ .29 W.G.) enough information to select a  blower?

As somebody trying to figure all this out, I think its important to get as many specific details into a single thread as possible.  Even the thread "I want to construct a HEPA hood. How do I match a blower to a HEPA filter?" does not provide all the information.  It assumes the SP of the filter is 1 inch...which isn't helpful for someone who doesn't understand how to interpret the information given in the hepa filter spec sheets. 

Perhaps you or anyone else could clear this up for us?  I think I've got all the info I should require..so how do I put it all together?

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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Dmix005]
    #18164860 - 04/25/13 05:13 AM (11 years, 26 days ago)

If you live in the states zoro tools is the best deal on the blower. That blowet was $160 with free shipping last i checked  Stop obsessing on the perfectly sized blower. The 1tdt2 is mor than enuf blower for any 24x24x6 inch hepa you will  find. You want it oversized. You can easily decrease the flow.....but if your  blower is sized perfectly to a new hepa, you will have no way of increasing  it as the filter clogs and creates more resistance. This is why we oversize the blowers. I am running a 1tdt2 right now thru a 36x36x12 and it's plenty of blower. That is an excellent choice. Just be sure to buy a quality hepa and ur golden.

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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18164886 - 04/25/13 05:37 AM (11 years, 26 days ago)

i agree on the need for a really all-covering flowhood construction-file. with all the theorie behind it and presented in both american and european metric system with conversions.
with an organised overvieuw of calulations and construction options.

i'm trying to get my head around it atm, wanting to build my own, but having a really hard time comprehensing it. if it does succeed i will help make such a file, so that there will be an end to all the new flowhood-threads.


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OfflineDmix005
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18165939 - 04/25/13 11:45 AM (11 years, 26 days ago)

thank you!!!! :laugh:

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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: Dmix005]
    #18220094 - 05/05/13 10:17 PM (11 years, 15 days ago)

I think I have some cycloning going on, I cant seem to get rid of it no matter how much I dial up or dial down with pre filter material. Hoping I dont have to take it apart and remake it.



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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: thenilsmeister]
    #18220181 - 05/05/13 10:36 PM (11 years, 15 days ago)

That's the problem with trying to rely on laminar flow.  The right and even static pressure depends on the right plenum design and varies over the life of the filter.

Also, without sides on the hood any draft or air movement will destroy your laminar flow anyways.  Your filtered air blowing past the still air of the room will generate vortexes and suck contams in from all sides.

I've always told people that trying for laminar flow is a rather poor way to design a flow hood.  Best case it's ridiculously expensive, worst case and you get problems like this.


-FF

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Offlinethenilsmeister
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: fastfred]
    #18221639 - 05/06/13 09:59 AM (11 years, 15 days ago)

I have sides on it, debating wether to put on a top shield.


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Offlinesvenoldb
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Re: About to build a flow hood [Re: thenilsmeister]
    #18465518 - 06/24/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Good luck

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