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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
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Does Blair really care?
    #1705899 - 07/11/03 02:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is a collection of recent articles on Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, I felt that I should put them all in one post rather than clutter up the boards. They focus more on the Britons currently being held there, and despite the uproar over here, I don't really think that Blair gives a shit about these guys.



First, from the Sunday Herald. Does this man really deserve this?


The first letters from Briton facing the death penalty at Camp X-Ray


By Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot


THEY are the first letters to see the outside world from the 21st century's Devil's Island -- the US military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

These 10 letters in neat, cramped handwriting from Moazzam Begg to his family back home in suburban Birmingham tell exactly what life is like inside the world's most feared prison -- Camp X-Ray.

Begg, who is 35, has been detained without charge since January 2001, has faced gruelling interrogations, been denied access to lawyers, confined in brutal conditions and now awaits a military tribunal which could well result in a short trip to a custom-built death house for execution.

On Thursday, 4 July (American Independence Day and the day before Begg's birthday), President Bush ordered that Begg and five other men, including another Briton -- Feroz Abbasi, 23, from London -- would be the first detainees to face military tribunals.

Washington is now facing international criticism over its use of military tribunals which are held in secret and presided over by high-ranking US soldiers. There is no guaranteed right to appeal.

Detainees are kept in wood and steel mesh cages, partially exposed to the elements. The world was shocked when the first pictures of Camp X-Ray emerged, showing detainees bound hand and foot and wearing blacked-out goggles. Some were stretchered into the camp, which has been labelled degrading and inhuman.

Begg, detainee number JJJEEHH 160, says in his letters that he mostly writes at night, 'which is usually when I cannot sleep because of thinking and worrying all the time, and the heat and the bright lights'. He has four children by his Palestinian wife, Sally. His youngest son Ibrahim was born while he was in custody.

In one letter to his wife, Begg writes: 'These past few weeks have been more depressing than usual, especially since the birth of our son ... time is dragging on so slowly ... I still don't know what will happen with me, where I will go and when -- even after all this time. There is nothing here to do to occupy time, except read the Koran .

'There are many rules here which do not make the wait any easier. The food has been the same for five and half months and most of the time I am hungry. I miss your cooking so much.'

Under what appear to be the black lines of a US military censor's pen can be read the words: 'I realise I am paying a big price for all the times I have been ungrateful in general and to you in particular.' The letter then ends: 'The most difficult thing in my life is being away from you and the kids, and being patient. I miss you and love you so much.'

Begg's father, Azmat, insists his son is not a terrorist. Ironically, Begg, who owned a bookshop in Birmingham, spent his formative years at a Jewish school and still has many Jewish friends. According to Azmat, a retired bank manager, his son was moved by the plight of the Afghani people and in 2001 travelled to Kabul with his family to start a school for basic education and provide water pumps.

When the allied attack on Afghanistan began in October 2001, Begg and his family moved to Islamabad in Pakistan for safety. It was there that he was seized in January 2002 by Pakistani police and CIA officers, bundled into a back of a car and taken back to Kabul, where he was held in a windowless cellar at Bagram airbase for nearly a year. His family insist it's a case of mistaken identity. Intelligence agents targeted Begg because his name appears on a photo-copy of a money transfer found in an al-Qaeda training camp.

Begg maintains his innocence in his letters home, saying: 'I believe that there has been a gross violation of my human rights, particularly to that right of freedom and innocence until proven guilty. After all this time I still don't know what crime I am supposed to have committed, for which not only I, but my wife and children should continually suffer for as a result.

'I am in a state of desperation and am beginning to lose the fight against depression and hopelessness .'

All of Begg's letters show that he rarely gets correspondence from his family, although he writes to them regularly. He continually blames 'the system' for preventing him getting details about his legal status, his family and the outside world. One letter begins: 'I wrote to mum in July. I am not entirely surprised if you never received it, or even if you will get this one -- but here goes anyway.'

In that letter he writes : 'I am afraid that I spend much time sleeping -- often getting bored from just sitting or lying down.' To counter the boredom, he reads the Koran, saying: 'I am also trying to to memorise the whole of the largest chapter.'

Although he appears reluctant to worry his family, he does write about some of the more unpleasant aspects of life in Camp X-Ray. 'The camel spider is the only 10-legged spider in the world, and, I believe, it is not an arachnid (technically not a spider). But it grows to bigger than the human hand-size, moves like a race-car and has a bite that causes flesh to decay if untreated. In the summer there were plenty here, running into cells and climbing over people; one person was bitten and had to be treated. Apart from that there is the usual melee of scorpions, beetles, mice and other insects.'

Another letter states: 'My routine is extremely mono-tonous ... Conversation with others is severely restricted but I do talk often to the guards.'

In the same letter, however, he shows that he still has a sense of humour in a sly side-swipe at his US captors: 'I had a discussion recently with someone about the USA's contribution to civilisation (after talking about Ancient Greece, Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China). I pondered for many hours, then came up with the answer: peanut butter (both smooth and crunchy) ... I have that every now and then and it tastes fairly good!'

Another letter describes how he has been given books to read, including the biography of Malcolm X, Black Hawk Down (the story of America's botched military involvement in Somalia), Churchill's life and books on the US Civil War, Vietnam and the War of Independence -- 'which', Begg adds sarcastically, 'they won by sheer luck'.

Other letters are more poig-nant, with Begg asking his brothers to care for his wife and children -- who are now back in Britain -- and ensure they do well at school. 'Please help them in whatever way you can ... Don't let my children want for anything due to any financial problems.

'This is the hardest test I have had to face in my life,' he tells his father, 'and I hope I have not caused you too much distress, but I will pass this test by the will of Allah and your prayers.'

His last letter in January this year ends: 'I don't know what is going on about my case, but I think it won't be resolved any time shortly. I am mostly kept in the dark and nobody seems to know. Please write back.'

Begg's father Azmat, who proudly recounts the fact that all his family served in the British army, says his grandchildren are distraught at their father's disappearance.

Azmat and the rest of the family have been refused visas to travel to America in order to ask questions about their son's case. He also accused the Foreign Office of failing to help.

' I feel now he will comply with whatever he is told,' said Azmat. 'In his most recent letter he said that he will 'make a decision which will affect the entire family'. We cannot guess what he means, but I am afraid he could do anything -- he has nothing in him left.'

06 July 2003


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (07/11/03 05:20 PM)


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1705904 - 07/11/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Next, from The Guardian:

The UK businessmen trapped in Guantanamo

Arrested in Gambia, interrogated in Afghanistan, abandoned in Cuba

Vikram Dodd
Friday July 11, 2003
The Guardian

The British government is facing claims that it has abandoned two London businessmen jailed without charge by the US at Guantanamo Bay.

The men's ordeal began last November, when Bisher al-Rawi and Jamil al-Banna were arrested by British police at Gatwick airport. Although freed without charge and allowed to travel to Gambia they were rearrested on arrival and detained for a month by local secret police.

They were then handed over to US agents who flew them to a CIA interrogation centre at Bagram airbase in Afghanistan, before being transferred to Camp Delta in Cuba where they have been held since March.

The men have been jailed for alleged links to al-Qaida after being branded "enemy combatants". Yet neither they nor their families have been given any information about the substance of the claims against them.

Their supporters, who maintain that the men have no involvement in terrorism, say it was the British authorities who passed information to the US which led to their detention. The Foreign Office has denied asking Gambia to arrest them.

Two British nationals who were arrested with them in Gambia, where the businessmen had set up a peanut oil processing plant, were eventually freed after the intervention of the British high commissioner.

But the government, already under fire for failing to do enough to help nine Britons held at Camp Delta, maintains that it will not press the US authorities over the men's fate because they are not British citizens.

The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, supports such a stance, but Amnesty International has branded it as "scandalous".

Mr Rawi, an Iraqi national, lives in the leafy south-west London suburb of Kingston-upon-Thames. He has been a British resident for 19 years and was granted indefinite leave to remain. His brother and sister are both British citizens.

Mr Banna, a Jordanian national, was granted refugee status in Britain in 2000 after seeking sanctuary from persecution.

Britain says both men's countries of birth are the only states who can provide help. But in Mr Rawi's case, the Iraqi government no longer exists. In fact, the country is run jointly by Britain and the US.

The bizarre chain of events began as the duo prepared to travel to Gambia. Special branch officers visited Mr Banna saying they already knew about his trip. When asked whether they objected, the officers replied that they did not.

The pair were due to travel on November 2, accompanied by Abdullah Eljanoudi, a British national. But as they tried to board the plane at Gatwick all three were ar rested under anti-terrorist legislation and taken to a police station in Sussex before being transferred to the high-security Paddington Green station in west London.

Anti-terrorist officers told them the reason for their detention was a suspect device in their luggage - a battery charger. According to their lawyer, Gareth Peirce, they had been freed after an Argos catalogue was produced to prove to the officers that the charger was widely available.

Six days later the three men flew to Gambia and were met by Mr Rawi's brother Wahab, a British passport holder who had flown out several days before.

But on arrival in the capital Banjul, all four were arrested by Gambia's national intelligence agency (NIA).

According to the Rawi family, Gambian agents told one of the brothers that their arrest followed a request from Britain: "Upon asking they were told there were irregu larities with their papers. At first, Wahab refused to cooperate with them and asked either for a lawyer or a representative from the British high commission.

"At his request [the Gambian agents] laughed and told him it was the British who have told us to arrest you."

They were held at several locations in Banjul, and interrogated first by NIA agents and then American agents, thought to be from the CIA.

Livio Zilli of Amnesty said: "One of them was reportedly threatened by a US investigator who told him unless he cooperated he would be handed over to the Gambian police who would beat and rape him."

It is also alleged that US interrogators threatened: "We can always let the Gambians at you."

After a month of being held incommunicado, the two British nationals were freed. But Mr Banna and Bisher al-Rawi were transferred to Bagram airbase in January 2003, to a section commonly associated with accusations of torture by US agents. One of the torture techniques is known as "torture light".

Steven Watt of the Washington-based Centre for Constitutional Rights said: "It's curious they were taken to Bagram and not straight to Guantanamo Bay. At Bagram there are two facilities, one run by the CIA where no one, not even the International Committee for the Red Cross, has access.

"Nobody knows what techniques are used there, but reports of the use of 'torture light' have concentrated on the CIA facility at Bagram."

It is thought that they were transferred in March to Guantanamo. Under Camp Delta's draconian regime, they will have been kept in a small cell for twenty-three-and-a-half hours each day and allowed out for just 30 minutes, with both hands and feet shackled.

Their British-based families are now battling to find out any information they can.

The families only discovered where their relatives were being held through letters received via the Red Cross. Neither the British nor US governments had told them anything.

In correspondence to the foreign secretary about British complicity in the arrest, Mr Rawi's MP, Edward Davey, wrote: "This is not a conspiracy theory ... In Gambia the group were interviewed by American officials. They had a file on Bisher, which must have come from the UK authorities.

"It had information on Bisher's hobbies that he pursued in the UK ... flying planes and parachuting. Perhaps such hobbies post-September 11 aroused suspicion, but is it illegal to be an Iraqi with a pilot's licence."

Mr Davey, Liberal Democrat MP for Kingston and Surbiton, said: "My constituent has been in the UK for nearly 20 years, paying taxes and has permanent residency rights and has close British relatives.

"The British government is washing their hands of him. For the UK to say he should get help from a non-existent Iraqi government, when we are jointly governing the country, is beyond Kafkaesque."

The Rawis' father came to Britain to escape the regime of Saddam Hussein, which jailed him for two years.

Mr Zilli of Amnesty said the British decision not to help Mr Banna was "questionable morally and legally". He added: "We have serious questions about the role the UK may have had in the unlawful rendering to US custody of these people."

In a letter to Mr Davey, the Foreign Office minister Lady Amos denied Britain had asked Gambia to arrest the men. In another letter, Mr Straw denied any government responsibility to help Mr Rawi.

A Foreign Office spokesman said: "The men detained in Gambia are not British nationals so we're not able to provide any consular or diplomatic protection for them.

"The other two who are British nationals, when we learned of their detention and sought consular access, were released shortly after the British high commissioner in Gambia intervened."



--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1705908 - 07/11/03 02:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hey lds, there's some good England bashing.

I'm surprised Blair doesn't seem to care about these things.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1705915 - 07/11/03 02:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I get the feeling Blair is even furthur to the right than Bush is.

Any doubts that if these guys were white they'dve been home months ago?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1705917 - 07/11/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Finally, another from The Guardian. Not really about Guantanamo exactly, but it shows that people are being held here in violation of their basic human rights (and the EU Charter) too.

Do we want Guantanamo Bay justice?

In Britain, too, people are being held without trial, on secret evidence

Audrey Gillan
Friday July 11, 2003
The Guardian

It has been described as "secretive" by the foreign office minister, Chris Mullin, and a "kangaroo court" by a Labour MP. They are referring to the special US military commission facing two of the Britons detained in Guantanamo Bay, which ultimately could lead to their execution.

But take away the threat of capital punishment and the epithets can be equally applied to another courtroom - only this one is in London. The special immigration appeals commission is hearing the appeals of 10 men who have been detained without charge since December 2001. Most of the evidence against them is heard in secret. Amnesty has called this hearing "a perversion of justice" - it, too, is a kangaroo court.

One of these men is Mahmoud Abu Rideh, a Palestinian refugee who the government claims is a terrorist. Watching him in this court is a surreal experience. He and his lawyers are not allowed to know most of the evidence against him. Abu Rideh gives his evidence from behind a glass panel; one moment he is joking with the judges, the next he is reduced to tears.

"This is a game," he shouts. "I will go to hospital all my life. If you want to kill me, kill me." The 33-year-old has been held in Broadmoor since a judge ordered the home secretary to remove him from Belmarsh because he was mentally ill.

Abu Rideh denies being a terrorist. He says he could prove his work in countries such as Afghanistan was charitable if the security services had not removed all the documents from his house when he was arrested. What the government considers to be the real evidence against him is not revealed in open court and it admits that most of it is based on assertions that he is linked with known extremists such as Abu Hamza.

Much of the case against these men is circumstantial, or just weak. Take the allegation that Abu Rideh was a mojahed, fighting in Afghanistan and Pakistan: Abu Rideh points out that he was only 18 when the war in Afghanistan ended and was, in fact, in prison in Palestine and Jordan. There may be more inconsistencies, but how can he defend himself when he is not privy to the evidence against him?

Abu Rideh, along with other alleged terrorists who cannot be named for legal reasons, was arrested under the Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act, introduced after September 11 to give the home secretary power to intern foreigners without trial. All are Muslims and refugees or asylum seekers.

To push the legislation through, the government had to suspend Britain's obligations under the European human rights convention, which guarantees the right to liberty. These appeals are tantamount to criminal trials in which the defendant does not enjoy the full presumption of innocence and can be imprisoned indefinitely on the basis of "secret" evidence never disclosed to his lawyers. It allows men to languish in the highest security prisons without limit of time and still, more than 18 months later, without charge.

Since their arrest, none of the men has been allowed to speak to the press. Only now, during these appeals, can their voices be heard. Only now can they begin to learn even the shadowy outlines of the case against them. The bulk of the evidence is heard in secret in the interests of national security.

The government relies for these internments on surveillance, telephone intercepts and informants. It has admitted that none of the cases would be able to proceed in a normal court of law because the evidence is not strong enough: the police have said as much and so has the crown prosecution service.

Often a man known only as Witness B speaks from behind a blue curtain. He is from the security services and a specialist in terrorist groups so his identity needs protecting. But he can refuse to answer questions at his own whim because he says it would jeopardise national security. Sometimes he bounces away what seem the simplest of queries.

"Did you know that Mr Abu Rideh was mentally ill before you arrested him?" The answer would have to be given in closed evidence, he replies. Why would the mental state of a man be a state secret when it is known he is in Broadmoor and has been treated by a psychiatrist for many years?

Witness B is protected by a screen; the lack of justice by the closure of the court doors. Abu Rideh has told the court he feels he is being treated as badly as the men held by the US in Guantanamo Bay. He said internment had made orphans of his five children and that his mother now had diabetes and hypertension.

Chris Mullin is right to criticise US plans for a military court which can order executions. But as he expresses his "strong reservations" about a secretive US trial, perhaps he should peek over the foreign office fence and into his own backyard.
-------------------------------------------------------------


Is this how it works in our Freedom worshipping countries?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1706871 - 07/11/03 09:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I guess it is a good thing we aren't part of the EU, so the charter does not apply to us. I hope the hang all the bastards, and send their rotting bodies back to were they came from. Fuck 'em. As far as Blair goes, I like him as much if not more than Bush.


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1707694 - 07/12/03 02:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I hope the hang all the bastards, and send their rotting bodies back to were they came from. Fuck 'em.


Before someone is put to death, shouldn't they at least be given a fair trial?  What if they're not guilty of anything?  This is America and Britain for Christ's sake, not some backass 3rd world countries!  :wtf: 


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1707867 - 07/12/03 04:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It's touching to see someone fill the void that JR left, the call for the murder of brown people can be heard echoing on the boards once again *sniff*.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708054 - 07/12/03 09:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think they should all be given military trials, and if found guilty executed.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1708141 - 07/12/03 11:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You don't even know what any of them are going to be charged with.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
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Posts: 2,633
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708145 - 07/12/03 11:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Whatever. If they are terrorists and are proven to be so the only solution is extermination.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1708167 - 07/12/03 11:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It worked for Hitler I guess.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708251 - 07/12/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hundreds of thousands of people are locked up in jail because they handled an illegal plant without any intent to do harm, while a few disturbed souls who have been working hard to arrange the killing of lots of innocent people until their political demands are met, are now locked up in Guantamo. Which group gets the press coverage?


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OfflineCornholio
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Registered: 01/13/03
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1708259 - 07/12/03 12:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
Hundreds of thousands of people are locked up in jail because they handled an illegal plant without any intent to do harm, while a few disturbed souls who have been working hard to arrange the killing of lots of innocent people until their political demands are met, are now locked up in Guantamo. Which group gets the press coverage?



If the people in Guantanamo Bay were charged with something and given a fair trial, this probably wouldn't have made news.

Although drug laws suck, at least those people were given a chance to defend themselves.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708282 - 07/12/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
It worked for Hitler I guess.




Huh? That makes no sense at all.

As far as fair trials go, you must realize that these people are not US citizens. So they are not protected by the Constitution. They are not being treated that poorly anyway. They have food, exercise, and are allowed to practice their religion.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708283 - 07/12/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
It worked for Hitler I guess.




Huh? That makes no sense at all.

As far as fair trials go, you must realize that these people are not US citizens. So they are not protected by the Constitution. They are not being treated that poorly anyway. They have food, exercise, and are allowed to practice their religion.


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OfflineCornholio
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Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1708354 - 07/12/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
They are not being treated that poorly anyway. They have food, exercise, and are allowed to practice their religion.


Wow, we're even giving them food? I don't understand why anyone would complain about the situation.


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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1708412 - 07/12/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Do you not follow the news? Even Americans aren't protected by the Constitution any more. The US can just declare anyone they like an 'enemy combatant' (American or not) and lock them away without charge.

My Hitler reference was because you seem to have already made up your mind that these people are guilty, and that the only 'solution' would be to 'exterminate' them.

These people have basically been kidnapped, and held indefinately against their will. Not only have they not been charged with anything, but they can't find out why they are being held, or what evidence (if any) there is against them. They get no jury trial, and their judges and defence are appointed by the people who kidnapped them. Is this how we spread the message of freedom and democracy around the world?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: Edame]
    #1708503 - 07/12/03 03:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No, this is how we deal with terrorists. Boo fucking hoo for them. We are not torturing them, or starving them to death. They are mostly Taliban and Al Qeada guys from Afghanistan. To be honest, they probably have it better than they did back home in the caves. Save the racist bullshit crap too. I don't care if they are pink. If they want to kill me and my countrymen fuck 'em. I would say the same thing for your country to.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Does Blair really care? [Re: shakta]
    #1708524 - 07/12/03 03:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You don't get it. No one is saying these people shouldn't be imprisoned or even killed if they are terrorists. What we are saying is that before you imprison/kill someone, you have to give them a fair trial to ensure they are even guilty in the first place!


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