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pattern
multiplayer

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US losses in Iraq
#1703401 - 07/10/03 04:45 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Timeline: US losses in Iraq http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3019552.stm
US Central Command has reported the deaths of 65 American service personnel in Iraq since 1 May when President Bush declared that major combat was over. Of the dead, a large proportion were killed in combat, typically in ambushes involving rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and sniper attacks.
In the same period, UK forces lost six servicemen - all members of the Military Police who were attacked in a village about 160 kilometres (100 miles) north of Basra.
The following entries are based on day-to-day Central Command news releases and do not cover war-related casualties outside Iraq or the possible deaths of soldiers succumbing to their wounds at a later stage.
9 July: A soldier (Fourth Infantry Divsion) dies of a gunshot wound in a 'non combat incident' in Balad
9 July: A soldier (Fourth Infantry Division) dies and another is wounded in a grenade attack on thier convoy in Baghdad
9 July: A soldier (Third Corps Support Command) is killed by small arms fire when a convoy is ambushed near Al Mahmudiyah
7 July: A soldier (101st Airborne Division) dies from gunshot wounds in a 'non combat incident' in Balad.
7 July: A soldier is killed when an explosive device strikes his vehicle while on patrol in Kadhimyah, Baghdad.
6 July: A soldier (First Armoured Division) is killed during a firefight between his platoon and Iraqi gunmen in the Ad Hamiyah area of Baghdad.
6 July: A soldier (First Armoured Division) dies after being shot in the head on the Baghdad University campus.
3 July: A soldier (First Armoured Division) is killed in Baghdad when a Bradley vehicle comes under sniper fire.
3 July: A soldier (First Armoured Division) dies of gunshot wounds in a "non-combat" related incident.
2 July: A Marine (First Expeditionary Force) dies and three are injured while conducting mine clearing operations in Karbala.
2 July: A US soldier dies from wounds received when his convoy was hit by an improvised explosive device in Baghdad the previous day.
28 June: The remains of two soldiers missing since 25th June are recovered 20 miles outside Baghdad.
27 June: One soldier (First Armoured Division) killed and four injured in a grenade attack in the Thawra area of Baghdad.
26 June: One soldier (First Marine Expeditionary Force) killed in ambush while investigating a car theft in An Najaf.
26 June: One special forces soldier killed and eight injured in a 'hostile fire' incident in south-west Baghdad.
25 June: One soldier (First Marine Expeditionary Force) killed and two are injured when their armoured vehicle overturns as they rush to help colleagues under fire.
24 June: Soldier (First Armoured Division) dies in a "non-combat incident". No details given.
22 June: One soldier (First Armoured Division) killed and one injured in a grenade attack on a military convoy south of Baghdad, in Khan Azad.
19 June: One soldier (804th Medical Brigade) killed and two injured in an RPG attack on a military ambulance in an area north of Camp Dogwood in the town of Iskandariya.
18 June: One soldier killed (First Armoured Division) and one wounded in a gun attack at a petrol distribution plant in Baghdad.
17 June: Soldier (First Armoured Division) mortally wounded by sniper in north-west Baghdad.
16 June: Soldier (First Marine Expeditionary Force) dies of "non-hostile gunshot wound" in An Najaf.
15 June: Soldier mortally wounded in "an apparent non-hostile incident" in the Taji area. No further details given.
13 June: One soldier (V Corps) dies and eight are injured in an armoured vehicle rollover accident 20 kilometres south of Asad Air Base.
13 June: Soldier drowns while swimming in lake near Falluja.
10 June: One paratrooper (82nd Airborne Division) killed and one injured in RPG attack in south-west Baghdad.
8 June: Soldier shot dead while manning a traffic control point in Qaim.
7 June: One soldier killed and four wounded in RPG and gun attack near Tikrit.
6 June: One soldier killed and two injured in a vehicle accident about 35 kilometres north of Baghdad.
6 June: Navy Seabee (serving with the First Marine Expeditionary Force) killed handling unexploded ordnance in Kut.
5 June: One soldier (101st Airborne Division) killed and five wounded in Falluja in an RPG attack.
Town vents its anger at US 2 June: Soldier (Fourth Infantry Division) mortally wounded in RPG and gun attack near Balad.
30 May: Three soldiers die as result of vehicle accident between Mosul and Tikrit.
29 May: Soldier "killed by hostile fire" while travelling on a main supply route. No further details.
27 May: Two soldiers killed and nine wounded in RPG and gun attack in Falluja.
26 May: Soldier drowns "after diving into an aqueduct" south of Kirkuk.
26 May: One soldier killed and three injured when their vehicles runs over mine or unexploded ordnance. No further details.
26 May: One soldier killed and two injured in a collision with a tractor.
26 May: One soldier (Third Armoured Cavalry Regiment) killed and one wounded in ambush on their convoy near Hadithah, about 193 km north-west of Baghdad.
25 May: One soldier killed and one injured in an apparent accidental blast at a former Iraqi munitions dump.
21 May: Soldier killed in vehicle accident near Baqubah.
19 May: All four crew members killed when Sea Knight helicopter crashes in the Shat Hilla Canal. One marine drowns while trying to rescue the crew.
19 May: One soldier killed in traffic accident near Safwan.
18 May: One soldier killed and one wounded in traffic accident near Samawa.
18 May: Soldier (Fourth Infantry Division) dies of "non-hostile gunshot wound".
17 May: One soldier killed and three injured while detonating unexploded ordnance in Baghdad.
14 May: One soldier killed and two injured in traffic accident near Irbil.
13 May: One soldier killed in accidental munitions explosion near Hilla.
12 May: Two soldiers killed in accidental munitions explosion.
9 May: Three soldiers killed and one injured in helicopter crash near Samarra.
8 May: Soldier killed by lone gunman in Baghdad.
4 May: Soldier dies in apparent suicide.
3 May: Soldier dies in apparent accidental shooting.
1 May: Soldier killed in traffic accident near Habbaniya.
--- How long will the Americans occupy Iraq? 1 year?
-------------------- man = monkey + mushroom
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: pattern]
#1703447 - 07/10/03 05:01 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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A young man just out of highschool from my home town is one of the men Bush sent to be killed.
I used to work with other girl who is over there right now.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Learyfan]
#1703704 - 07/10/03 06:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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We will probably be over there for 2.5-5 years. Bush did not send anyone unwillingly. We have a volunteer military you know.
Edited by shakta (07/10/03 06:43 PM)
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1703767 - 07/10/03 07:17 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: Bush did not send anyone unwillingly. We have a volunteer military you know.
As an ex-military member, I recall that the military oath of office states:
"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; THAT I TAKE THIS OBLIGATION FREELY, WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION; AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF THE OFFICE UPON WHICH I AM ABOUT TO ENTER."
So unless it can be shown that policing Iraq is somehow required to defend the US Constitution, then they didn't volunteer for it.
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1703793 - 07/10/03 07:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh please tell me you are kidding. Anyone joining the military knows there is a risk of war. The oath says you are to defend the Constitution against enemies. Saddam was deemed a threat to the welfare of the United States, and therefore a threat to the Constitution.
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Cornholio
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1703855 - 07/10/03 07:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Saddam was deemed a threat to the welfare of the United States, and therefore a threat to the Constitution.
It's questionable whether he was ever a serious threat or not. But that he will be a threat for the next 2.5 - 5 years??? I think some in the military (and elsewhere) have some strong doubts about that.
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1703981 - 07/10/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am sure some do. Some of every group will disagree.
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1704219 - 07/10/03 09:45 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Even a lot of our own troops are beginning to see that the whole invasion was bullshit. Even many conserative news sources are stating that troop moral is low.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1704280 - 07/10/03 10:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said: Even many conserative news sources are stating that troop moral is low.
I know. It must be REALLY bad.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1704299 - 07/10/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I gotta agree with Shakta on this one.
When you join the military you sign up to do whatever they want you to do no matter what.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Learyfan]
#1704338 - 07/10/03 10:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Any high school student taking a law studies class will tell you that you give up many of your individual freedoms if you are a prisoner, public school student (who else finds this incredibly fucked up?),and when you join the military.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Learyfan]
#1704360 - 07/10/03 10:36 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: I gotta agree with Shakta on this one.
When you join the military you sign up to do whatever they want you to do no matter what.
There's little question about that. The question is whether or not Bush has the right to keep them there to do something they didn't sign up for (oil protection, rather than constitution protection). To the best of my knowledge, Bush went to war with Iraq without even getting congressional approval, which itself is unconstitutional.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1704365 - 07/10/03 10:38 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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all 3 institutions require that the enrollee be completely dedicated to the cause whether willingly or through conditioning.
there would be chaos without that element of control.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1704371 - 07/10/03 10:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
To the best of my knowledge, Bush went to war with Iraq without even getting congressional approval, which itself is unconstitutional.
It's not a war,it's an "operation" or "conflict",duh. This great country would never use an euphamism (sp?) to justify a war. We never had a war in Korea either.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1704373 - 07/10/03 10:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said: Any high school student taking a law studies class will tell you that you give up many of your individual freedoms if you are a prisoner, public school student (who else finds this incredibly fucked up?),and when you join the military.
That's why I quit. It seemed fucked up that I was defending everyone's freedom but my own.
--------------------
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: afoaf]
#1704389 - 07/10/03 10:47 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes,all chaos and the bowels of hell would have broken lose because I wore an "innapropriate" Bad Religion t-shirt with a Christian cross with an X going through it. Nowhere in the 1st ammendment does it say "this applies to everyone but high school students."
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1705523 - 07/11/03 10:48 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
It seemed fucked up that I was defending everyone's freedom but my own
thats why i got out of the military.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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drfrei
journeyman
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: 1stimer]
#1705610 - 07/11/03 11:22 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think the broader point is that the reason for starting the first pre-emptive war in American history (except that one with the indians), and the soldiers lives that have been paid so far and will continue to be paid was predicated on information that was corrupted, by whose-ever hand, and that the aftermath was ALWAYS referred to by the administration as something that would take less than a year. In fact, one of their original statements, and statements by the original planners of the war, was that within six months they would have only fifty thousand troops there. Now the 2-5 year figure is being bolstered around, but to tell the truth I dont think we will be able to leave there in less than five to seven, unless we leave in defeat.
Of course the military agrees to serve no matter what, but if the whole truth had been told, including realistic expectations of servicemens's lives and the amounts of time it would take to rebuild something there, how many citizens and congressmen and senators would ahve been behind the war (action, whatever).
When soldiers lives are lost, there is more than an obligation to make sure thier lives were lost for the truth and not for half baked exagerations and denial of what the true costs of the after war mission would entail.
This war was planned by make believe people in a make belive world, but the boys and girls in the real world are over there in the desert dieing. The thing is, no matter whether there was deception or just plain incompetance we are stuck with the pig in the poke, and if we leave to early we will have worse problems than we did before.
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: drfrei]
#1705688 - 07/11/03 11:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't see how anyone with simple logic skills could defend this war with a straight face.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705710 - 07/11/03 11:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said: I don't see how anyone with simple logic skills could defend this war with a straight face.
Funny thing, that's how many "righties" feel about many, if not most, things that "lefties" try and defend.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705711 - 07/11/03 11:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said: I don't see how anyone with simple logic skills could defend this war with a straight face.
War always seems to increase a president's approval rating. I'm not sure if it's because people feel obligated to be extra nationalistic during times of war, or if we're a country of war mongrels.
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1705731 - 07/11/03 11:58 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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both
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

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Stick to the topic. This isn't a left-right thing,it's about an unjustified war and fact that the public was lied to. Why (edit:I forgot the comma) is lying a treasured value of the right?
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
Edited by grandmasterfat (07/11/03 12:08 PM)
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705746 - 07/11/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said: both
Agreed.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705780 - 07/11/03 12:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I didn't change the topic. I was merely pointing it out.
Believe me, the right feels the left does far more lying. And often when it isn't necessary.
ie: I didn't inhale.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
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Sorry, I don't vote Republicrat. They both lie,I never said they didn't.However,lying about smoking a doobie and getting a BJ (things you shouldn't have to lie about) is a little different.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705804 - 07/11/03 12:17 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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The point of my sentence was that it wasn't necessary to lie about it at all.
Meaning a simple "it's none of your business" would have worked quite nicely.
That applies to the bj as well, and look at all the trouble it would have saved.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
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Quote:
Meaning a simple "it's none of your business" would have worked quite nicely.
Edit: Who are you talking about,King George or Klin-ton? Surely you aren't serious? This is a democracy (well,it's supposed to be anyway) last time I checked. King George is supposed to work for me, not his own political and financial agenda. Quote:
That applies to the bj as well, and look at all the trouble it would have saved.
You've never been to court,have you? When you're being questioned in front of a jury you can't exactly say "fuck off,it's none of your beeswax".
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
Edited by grandmasterfat (07/11/03 12:27 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705869 - 07/11/03 12:35 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
You've never been to court,have you? When you're being questioned in front of a jury you can't exactly say "fuck off,it's none of your beeswax".
Court? Been there.
If he hadn't lied there would have been no court. And if there was, a simple "I'll take the 5th" would have sufficed.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: The point of my sentence was that it wasn't necessary to lie about it at all.
Meaning a simple "it's none of your business" would have worked quite nicely.
That applies to the bj as well, and look at all the trouble it would have saved.
I agree with this 100%. This business was clearly his personal business, and not ours, so why didn't he just say so instead of lying about it.
There is clearly much lying all over the spectrum.
Although I'd like to point out I wouldn't really call Clinton a lefty. He was definitely a centrist. I'm having trouble thinking of a truly liberal liar, but maybe that's because we care more about people than profit.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1705886 - 07/11/03 12:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
He was definitely a centrist.
One mans centrist is anothers lying pig leftie.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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drfrei
journeyman
Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 51
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I didn't change the topic. I was merely pointing it out.
Believe me, the right feels the left does far more lying. And often when it isn't necessary.
ie: I didn't inhale.
yeah, at least when the right lies its about important stuf, i.e. war, covering up the state of government envireonmental report (reported this last week where they changed the wording so it wouldn't appear as though global warming were a problem. Not about weed or blowjobs. What losers those lefties are!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: drfrei]
#1705897 - 07/11/03 12:46 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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So lies from lefties are OK as long as they're about FBI files, billing records, rapes, travel office firings, entering Vince Fosters office, illegal campain contributions and the like?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Quote:
One mans centrist is anothers lying pig leftie.
I dunno.It's pretty hard for me to picture Clinton drinking Vodka while wearing a Che Guevara shirt and reading Das Kapital.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705912 - 07/11/03 12:52 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can picture the shirt and the vodka, but reading? Porn maybe.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
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Porn and vodka definately,but who the hell reads porn?
Hey,I don't like Clinton as much as the next man,but I think it's pretty unfair to call him stupid.Evil,probably.Stupid,no.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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drfrei
journeyman
Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 51
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: So lies from lefties are OK as long as they're about FBI files, billing records, rapes, travel office firings, entering Vince Fosters office, illegal campain contributions and the like?
hehe, yeah, they do get a good one off every once in a while, but they still can't match the republicans . . . ahhhh, the good old days of iran contra, watergate, more banking scandals than you can shake a stick at . . .
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705967 - 07/11/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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since you brought it up do you have a link to a death toll that actually lists the people's names? I have alot of friends over there "policing" I'm curious as to whether their dead or not, if I really really cared I 'd probraly search for something on the internet, but I'm not really really caring yet, just curious, but if you happen to know that, then
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: drfrei]
#1705973 - 07/11/03 01:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think Reagan was responsible for the 80's,that's worse than all this shit combined.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: drfrei]
#1705993 - 07/11/03 01:15 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
but they still can't match the republicans
While I have little doubt that lefties lie more, I also have little doubt you see it the other way.
What say we leave it at that?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1705995 - 07/11/03 01:15 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think Reagan had anything much to do with "Reaganism". He was just a figurehead reading lines other people wrote for him. Reagan was all on making it to the toilet in time never mind thinking about anything.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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So Nugs, if that's who you really are.....
How is it that all of a sudden you can spell and use punctuation?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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sounds like you know something, share if you would!
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
#1706067 - 07/11/03 01:34 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think Reagan had anything much to do with "Reaganism". He was just a figurehead reading lines other people wrote for him. Reagan was all on making it to the toilet in time never mind thinking about anything.
I think all presidents are basically figureheads. Usually when I say Bush,I mean the Bush administration,but I thought that was a given.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Nope, I don't know if you are or not.
I don't believe you are, that's not the same as knowing.
You've gone from this....
" I was wondering if anyone here has been experiencing these symptoms... Phone taps House bugs Houses with cameras being stuck up and down through sinks to observe you and last of all to anyone's surprise , microphones being placed in my air conditionar that speak, and say things that are always just a tad too soft too hear. The microphones I believe are from agents, maybe cuban who knows, I think they like to brainwash me in my sleep to do things, such as masterbate, by playing porn tapes, and saying things over and over again, like go and beat off, you want it, do it, I swear if they ever slip acid in my ice cubes and do this while repeating blow up the world trade center I think.... " Old Nugs
to sounding coherant. If it is you, good job.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Grav


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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The people in administration responsible for starting this "war" should be locked up.
After their legs are broken.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1706404 - 07/11/03 03:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think all presidents are basically figureheads. Usually when I say Bush,I mean the Bush administration,but I thought that was a given.
Agreed. Good line I heard recently about Reagan was "Just because he's forgotten what he did doesn't mean we should".
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
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i'm sorry but if you remember I am an unofficial official shizno, until I found god, if you want to trash nugs then trash nugs on a different thread, if you want to look for that link of named persons died, that would be cool (nugs runs off in a corner and cries because he is, was dumb..)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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I wasn't trashing you. Merely asking.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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fora acookiie? I mean what are you asking for?
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 2 days
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1706854 - 07/11/03 06:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: The question is whether or not Bush has the right to keep them there to do something they didn't sign up for (oil protection, rather than constitution protection). To the best of my knowledge, Bush went to war with Iraq without even getting congressional approval, which itself is unconstitutional.
Of course he has the right to keep them there. You are being ridiculous. You need to improve your knowledge, the Congress gave him approval last year.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1707613 - 07/12/03 12:23 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Of course he has the right to keep them there. You are being ridiculous. You need to improve your knowledge, the Congress gave him approval last year.
Ok, I improved my knowledge per your request, and found that the war in Iraq is very clearly unconstitutional. The Constitution gives Congress and Congress alone the power to declare war, which they may not delegate. There are hundreds of websites that confirm this; and many explain other reasons why this war is unconstitutional, such as:
Invading Iraq Is Unconstitutional Violating the Constitution With an Illegal War Why I Oppose the Unconstitutional War with Iraq Why The War With Iraq Is Unconstitutional Suit challenges Bush war authority
So I'm the one being "ridiculous"???
--------------------
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1707957 - 07/12/03 05:15 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Try this link....
War Powers Act
My read is it falls under this. I'd love to hear your thoughts after you read it.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 2 days
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We have not declared war on anyone. Congress approved military action in Iraq last year.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Try this link....
War Powers Act
My read is it falls under this. I'd love to hear your thoughts after you read it.
Interesting that you cite the War Powers Act to support the case for war against Iraq. The purpose of the Act was to further limit the power of the President from engaging in wars like Korea, Vietnam, etc. In fact SEC. 8. (d) of the Act says that "Nothing in this joint resolution shall be construed as granting any authority to the President with respect to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances which authority he would not have had in the absence of this joint resolution."
So my take is that the War Powers Act does nothing to strengthen the case for war.
--------------------
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1708240 - 07/12/03 10:32 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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War by any other name is still war,whether it's called an "operation" or a "conflict" or whatever.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1708243 - 07/12/03 10:34 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.
I disagree. Once Congress voted to give the President their approval, which they did, he was all set.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 2 days
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EXACTLY. CONGRESS GAVE HIM PERMISSION. END OF STORY! GAWD, QUIT BEING SO DENSE!
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I disagree. Once Congress voted to give the President their approval, which they did, he was all set.
I'm confused with what you're trying to argue. With Congressional approval, war is constitutional without the War Powers Act.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1708499 - 07/12/03 01:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
EXACTLY. CONGRESS GAVE HIM PERMISSION. END OF STORY! GAWD, QUIT BEING SO DENSE!
From what I read, the Senate approved the Iraq war resolution "authorizing President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refused to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions." It appears Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction to give up, and it also appears the UN hadn't found Saddam in violation of doing this when Bush attacked.
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 2 days
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1708513 - 07/12/03 01:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bullshit. You are incorrect as is becoming usual. It appears Saddam has no WMDs? It has only been two months since the war 'ended'. Nevermind, I am sick of this argument.
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1708538 - 07/12/03 01:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
It appears Saddam has no WMDs?
Very much so.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1708541 - 07/12/03 01:30 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bullshit. You are incorrect as is becoming usual. It appears Saddam has no WMDs? It has only been two months since the war 'ended'. Nevermind, I am sick of this argument.
I love the way you debate. Here, I'll use your method back on you: EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WRONG, EVERYTHING I SAID IS RIGHT, AND THAT'S THE END OF THE DISCUSSION. If you really believe your style of debate is effective, then you should agree I just won the argument.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1708547 - 07/12/03 01:35 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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For the rest of us who prefer logic and reason, I stand by the statement that "It appears Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction to give up, and it also appears the UN hadn't found Saddam in violation." Is there evidence to the contrary?
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shroomophile
ShroomitusFidelis


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 762
Loc: USA
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1710035 - 07/12/03 09:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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what kind of vouenteer shit are you selling?I was in the military.I took the oath ,i lived the oath and i am quite ashamed.I have to live with my conscience,but i shouldn't have to listen to that shit.Yeah,your right,2-5 and we get to pay for it.
-------------------- Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.
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shroomophile
ShroomitusFidelis


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 762
Loc: USA
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What if it was signed by warmongers,liars and traitors?
-------------------- Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Cornholio]
#1710093 - 07/12/03 10:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Although no WMD have been found yet in Iraq, i would like to remind everyone of what happened after Desert storm and Desert Shield. At the end of the war America knew for sure that Saddam had WMD as he used some on his own people. The UN and Americans looked for these weapons and could not find them. It was not untill Saddam told the AMericans where to find barrels upon barrels of anthrax that we found them. How easy is it to find possibly undetectible barrels filled with a chemical or biological agent which could be burried deep under the sand in a random location. I wouldnt be susprised if in 2040 some poor fool kills himself when he unintionlly opens a barrel of nerve gas with a pick axe while building another McDonalds in central iraq. But that is just my opinon.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710225 - 07/12/03 11:01 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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As I and others have stated earlier in this thread,chemical and biological weapons should not be considered WMD if there are no long range ballistics to launch them. There is little evidence that Iraq ever had such capabilites.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710241 - 07/12/03 11:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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So when Iraq launched scuds at Isreal during the gulf war that doesnt count as a long range balistic weapons. And chem and bio weapons if found would put "enough" peoples minds at rest.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710260 - 07/12/03 11:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldn't actually consider SCUD to be a long range missile capable of carrying a warhead full of chems. As far as I know,they have never used anything even remotely similar. And even if one of these thing did hit,what would it do,take out a couple dozen people? That's not exactly a weapon of mass destruction. And anyway,scuds are easily intercepted with current technology.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710279 - 07/12/03 11:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Scuds can easily carry a payload of chems and bio weapons. Their destructive force is also quite powerfull. And since scuds leave the atmosphere it is actually quite difficult to intercept wheter it be by patriot missles or something else regaurdless of what the govt says.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710315 - 07/12/03 11:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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While I don't claim to be any kind of expert on weapons technology,SCUDS only have a range of a couple hundred miles and are relatively piss poor accurate. Isreal is not that far from Iraq.
If they had these weapons,one would think they would have used them during the invasion.
If we started invading every country that has some kind of bio or chem weapons and twenty year old missile technology, then every other third world nation would be on that list.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710344 - 07/12/03 11:38 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well the UN banned Iraq from having balistics of any more than a very small range. Iraq has actually modified SCUDs to have a range of up to 800 km. And ill give you it has somewhat poor accuracy. But it still grants them power to drop a warhead on Isreal. And beacuse Americans are such "good" friends with the jews Americans cant allow that. Im not really supporting the war should have happened, although i think it wasent bad that it happened. And about not ussing them if they had them. I could see Saddam not using them to make America look bad becuse 1. he got his ass wooped by daddy bush and America not finding WMD makes little bush look bad and 2. it just makes America look wrose and makes iraq look better. Isnt that really what he wanted the whole time. Maybes hes just more of a sneaky sob then we figured.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710352 - 07/12/03 11:39 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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LDS, Clinton is not a lefty. There is no debate there. Ask any political expert and they will tell you Clinton, while socially liberal, was economically conservative. Just look at what he did with welfare. When it comes to another man's ideology, my/your perspective doesn't matter. He may be lefty compared to you, but that doesn't make him a liberal.
And I'd like to see someone point out a TRUE liberal lying. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm having trouble recalling.
LDS, if you actually believe liberals lie far more than conservatives and if you actually think Clinton is a liberal, you have a lot of rethinking to do.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1710387 - 07/12/03 11:51 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Many people call Howard Dean a liberal. He also self proclaims himself as a liberal. He lies. He has lied about his state's health care in its reliance on the federal budget when he proclaims he made state paid healthcare and i bealive he lied when he took the hipocratic oath. There are other lies i dont recall them all now. That is just my opinon i may be wrong
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710388 - 07/12/03 11:51 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
And about not ussing them if they had them. I could see Saddam not using them to make America look bad
What do he have to lose? He's either dead or in a cave in Buttfucksomewhere.
There are just too many what if's and they just don't add up. Plus the Bu$h administration had a personal grudge and a vested interest in this war. There is just no justification of invading a soveirgn nation without UN approval and no hard evidence.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710396 - 07/12/03 11:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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well saddam is told to be alive. Currently there is much hate for America, bush and other aspects. If saddam launched he would have been proclaimed more evil than he is now. And America would be cheered on and bush would surely be re-elected. If i was saddam i would also have gone with the former. And i bealive operation iraqi freedom should not happened. I think big bush should have just finished up the war back in '91.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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monoamine
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710398 - 07/12/03 11:57 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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And if these weapons do or did exist,surely some Iraqi officials could have been bribed as to their whereabouts or anything else about them.
I'll say it again: it doesn't add up.
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710406 - 07/13/03 12:00 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
i bealive he lied when he took the hipocratic oath.
I'm not questioning the validity of your statement,as I don't know much about Dean,but how exactly did he break the hipocratic oath?
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: monoamine]
#1710440 - 07/13/03 12:08 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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It has to do with when he worked in a clinic. It was about abortions. I dont quite remeber all the details but i do remeber at the time felt he could have acted differently. That is just my opinon i could be wrong
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710530 - 07/13/03 12:56 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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The UN and Americans looked for these weapons and could not find them. It was not untill Saddam told the AMericans where to find barrels upon barrels of anthrax that we found them. Do you have anymore details of this story? Saddam told the americans? Wouldn't he have told the UN inspectors? They found "barrels upon barrels"? Where did you hear this? How easy is it to find possibly undetectible barrels filled with a chemical or biological agent which could be burried deep under the sand in a random location. To make chemical and biological weapons you need large scale industrial plant. Along with hundreds of workers. Now Saddam is no longer in power why wouldn't SOMEONE involved have told the americans "Give me 25 million bucks and I'll show you where the weapons are?"? I wouldnt be susprised if in 2040 some poor fool kills himself when he unintionlly opens a barrel of nerve gas with a pick axe while building another McDonalds in central iraq. Chemical and biological weapons have very short shelf-lives. After a couple of years (at most) they are useless.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
#1710571 - 07/13/03 01:13 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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It was years back when it happened. Im i woundnt be sure if it was that he told the americans or UN but he was the one who spoke out. No one had found it. And who is to say he hadnt already made all the chem and bio weapons he needed and that we jsut didnt get them all after the guld war. And if you think a bio weapon such as anthrx has a short shelf life you are mistaken. Anthrax thrives very easily. If an area was exposed and nothing was down to clean it up it would take at least 50 years to disapate. The brits exposed some island while testing anthrax and it took them 50 yrs to clean it all up. but thats just my opinon i could be wrong. sorry for spelling and grammer mistakes im typeing fast.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1710668 - 07/13/03 01:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can you find reference to the story anywhere on the web? No one had found it. And who is to say he hadnt already made all the chem and bio weapons he needed and that we jsut didnt get them all after the guld war. If he did so what? They would have degraded and been useless a decade ago. And if you think a bio weapon such as anthrx has a short shelf life you are mistaken I think you're confusing anthrax with the kind of anthrax that would be in any way effective as a weapon. Anthrax is not contagious. 95% of all anthrax cases are of the less lethal skin anthrax type; 80% recover completely with NO treatment. It really isn't that terrifying a threat. Here's a good read about "weapons of mass destruction": http://www.conservativetruth.org/attack/therealdeal.shtml Lesson number one: In the mid 1990s there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack, less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people. What he didn't tell us is that the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff is to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too). Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!)! These weapons are about terror. If you remain calm, you probably will not die. This is far less scary than the media and their "experts," make it sound. These are not gases, they are vapors or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill or injure, and that defines when and how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. So a chemical attack will have it's best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise or sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you, or get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to accomplish with military grade agents and equipment, so you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
#1710763 - 07/13/03 02:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Whether how great or small the threat beaing posed is, it still needs to be dealt with. I got really tired a while ago. I think i stopped making sense a couple hrs ago
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1711572 - 07/13/03 01:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Agreed.
I don't agree, however, d33p, that 5,000+ innocents should be killed, many more lives destroyed, to fight a single 'threat' who has a military 1/3 as powerful as the weak military it had in 91. Use some logic, people, even if Iraq had nukes, would they use them? Everybody knows Saddam is an egomaniac and the most important thing to him was to stay in power. He KNOWS that at the idea of him even using a nuke he'd have dozens of nukes pointed at him from Israel. Bring the US into the equation and his country is destroyed in about an hour.
d33p, I think your oath violation you point out on Dean was the situation that he talked about to explain why he doesn't agree with parental consent. I don't remember what came of it, but a teenage pregnant girl came to him once that not only convinced him that the baby was her father's, but that she would LITERALLY be physically harmed if her parents found out. It ended up that the baby wasn't her father's, and Dean ADMITTED that. What a concept. Before you start pointing out lies from Dean show me some evidence. He's the kind of guy who will admit when he's wrong.
I have an idea... why don't we play a game? You post specific proof of Dean telling a lie, then I'll do the same for Bush.
We'll see who runs out first.
Better yet, we'll see if you can even start the game.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1711598 - 07/13/03 02:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't want to trust a person who has no problem murdering large amounts of his own people, with any level of WMDs, especially when he hates everyone that lives in my country.
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Crobih
rap-cord
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: shakta]
#1712152 - 07/13/03 05:52 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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shakta, you are an idiot. Nevertheless, you should ask yourself several quiestions.
First: Do you have a problem with the fact that the president of your country does not mind killing large amounts of people, with no true reason? Second: Do you know that the only person who hates is you? Not Saddam, nor Bush. Third: What do you think, why somebody hates everbody in your country? Fourth: Can you kill all the people who hate your country? Fifth: If you can not kill all the people, what will happen to their own hate toward you? Sixth: Have you ever thought about the solution for existing problem?
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Anonymous
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: Crobih]
#1712247 - 07/13/03 06:32 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta, you are an idiot.
No flames please, even when it's as obviously true as that.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: ]
#1712286 - 07/13/03 06:48 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fiend said:
Quote:
shakta, you are an idiot.
No flames please, even when it's as obviously true as that.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
As soon as you added the line.. even when it's as obviously true as that.
That in itself is a flame.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
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You guys are a bunch of flamers (me giggles).
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1712629 - 07/13/03 08:39 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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slapnutrob said "Before you start pointing out lies from Dean show me some evidence. He's the kind of guy who will admit when he's wrong."
If he is the kind of guy to admit when he is wrong why did he seal all of his past records twice as long as people normally do just so anything cant come back to haunt him. And ill get the evidence. m'kay
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1712675 - 07/13/03 08:59 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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dean lies Abortions preformed by non-doctors, trying to seal all of his past records for 20 years, and lied about state funded free health care. Dean is no saint, although neither is bush dont get me wrong. And if 5,000 innocent lives is what it is going to take to deal with such a threat as iraq and other similar threats than so be it. If you just use the numbers of the dead innocents to say why a war is bad, thats wrong. Their is no doubt in my mind that if Saddam stayed in power many more than 5,000 innocent people would have died to his rule. In north korea millions of people are dieing due to their dictator. So if 20,000 innocents died to stop that regime do you think it would justify saving the millions. Not that America should be the police of the world i still believe their actions in Iraq were well worth it.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1712798 - 07/13/03 09:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I read that article and don't see how it proves Dean has lied. It points out as you do that Dean sealed his records. Well that's not very admirable, but apparently they're not sealed anymore (correct me if I'm wrong) and I don't hear any major scandals coming of it.
Quote:
Having supported Vermont's divisive civil union law, which confers the legal rights of husbands and wives onto homosexual couples -- he signed the controversial legislation behind closed doors.
What the hell is the author trying to get at with this? She's implying it was something that he wanted to hide by signing behind closed doors, but it obviously isn't because he's proud of signing it. Maybe that's where the bill was presented to him? What if he signed it on the toilet? He signed it and he stands by it. What a pointless point.
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"While he has never performed an abortion himself, he is strongly pro-choice and certainly understands the medical procedures involved." Which must rate as the medical equivalent of not inhaling."
Is it required that he must have performed an abortion because he supports it? Is he supposed to seek out pregnant girls because he's pro-choice? The not-inhaling comparison here is laughable. What does his never having performed an abortion have to do with another Clinton lie? Maybe if he turned an abortion down, then she'll have an argument.
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Vermont's status as one of a handful of states in which abortions may be performed by non-doctors? In 1998 -- the last year the state released data -- 183 girls under the age of 18 had abortions, more than half of them performed by non-doctors: Morality aside, is this even a healthy option?
Maybe this one could be explained to me a little better. Abortions are held everywhere each year by non-doctors. That's why it has to be legal, so girls have a safe alternative. Just because statistics were kept in this state of girls who were too embarrassed to go see a doctor, the author credits this problem to Dean's morality. How can Dean be blamed for girls not going to the doctor?
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With lower-than-average incomes, a heavier-than-average tax burden, and some of the highest health insurance premiums in the country, Vermont is hardly paradise for working people
The author concludes with a bunch of general, unsupported statements. I've heard statements like this used to back up globalization in foreign countries, with further inspection showing the facts the right-winger was stating came from the years of socialism. However, the heavier-than-average tax burden goes without saying when things are more socialized, and is the common conservative argument against socialism. However, with higher taxes, life becomes much more bearable when a poor man doesn't have to worry about things like health care, and gets paid higher wages.
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As governor, Dean raided special funds to even out budget shortfalls
Here, the author fails to support her claim with fact, and doesn't even tell us what these "special funds" are. A balanced budget is a balanced budget... I dare someone to find one Republican executive adept at producing one. At the bottom of the page is an advertisement for the latest book by Ann Coulter. How appropriate. Ann Coulter's book is full of numbers out of context, outright fabrications, and lacking in citations. How can anyone defend McCarthyism? Everybody knows it was a bullshit political campaign. They didn't find one Communist spy. And back onto the subject of Iraq, don't look at my 5,000 deaths fact. Look at the 1/3 one... can you seriously believe that such a feeble military was a threat to anyone? Ask a citizen from any neighboring country if they saw Saddam as a bigger threat than Bush, and I'm sure 9 out of 10 times you'll get a negative answer. The fact that members of the Bush admin. have been pushing for an Iraq war for about 7 years (go to newamericancentury.org) displays that this was a political war. It wasn't about liberating people or finding WMDs. It was about establishing Mid-East hegemony and for giving us a reliable oil source. You bring up North Korea. You won't see us invading them anytime soon. North Korea actually has a military. That would be a WAR, not the massacre we saw with Iraq. Also, there's no political advantage with that war. If you think the US goes to war to save lives, you have a bullet in your head, my friend.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1712845 - 07/13/03 10:01 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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slapnut look at this scenerio: would you rather fight with lenox lewis or gary coleman. But gary coleman is in a bio chem suit and has a canister of nerve gas. Size of a military means little with the types of weapons today. Many lives can still be lost from any small groups of people. And you say "[the war] wasn't about liberating people or finding WMDs. It was about establishing Mid-East hegemony and for giving us a reliable oil source." Where is your secret tape record backing this up. There is no actaul proof that that is what the war was soley about. And you brought up the case of 5,000 innocents dead and how that makes the war wrong. So just when i provide an opposition to that dont say i have a bullet in my head.
and about howard dean. He has said if not bragged numerous times of how he "balanced" his states budget and had made free healthcare. It has been shown the bulk of this free health care is paid by federal tax payers. How is that not a lie?
And you disect every aspect of that article by asking wheres the proof. I have yet to see any real reliable proof against most of bush's actions other than pasteings off cnn.com here. It seems to me the tiniest shred of evidence against something bush did wrong is accepted whereas dean is soem untouchable saint. That was a news article if the author cited and back up everything that was said it would have been incredibly long. No one would read that, thus making it worthless to post. You asked for some lies from howard dean i showed you some of them. Although you say there is not sufficent proof i am certinly not gonna spend any of my time hunting down any missing doing's of dean along with an essay of evidence backing it up. And his records are still sealed. And i see why if there is nothing about him to cause scandal he would seal them twice as long as normal.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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SlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: d33p]
#1712912 - 07/13/03 10:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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d33p said: slapnut look at this scenerio: would you rather fight with lenox lewis or gary coleman. But gary coleman is in a bio chem suit and has a canister of nerve gas. Size of a military means little with the types of weapons today. Many lives can still be lost from any small groups of people. And you say "[the war] wasn't about liberating people or finding WMDs. It was about establishing Mid-East hegemony and for giving us a reliable oil source." Where is your secret tape record backing this up. There is no actaul proof that that is what the war was soley about. And you brought up the case of 5,000 innocents dead and how that makes the war wrong. So just when i provide an opposition to that dont say i have a bullet in my head.
d33p, it's just a fact that this was was in the works since the mid-nineties. Go to that webpage I provided and see how Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz signed a letter to Clinton telling him to invade Iraq. Iraq wasn't a threat then, and they're not a threat now... the difference is that the neo-cons got a guy in office that they could not only influence, but get in the cabinet of. Isn't it strange that Iraq was never presented as a threat until after 9/11? 9/11 in conjunction with badgering by neo-cons convinced Bush he needed to invade Iraq. I don't see how anyone taking an objective look at these facts could rationally decide this wasn't a politcal war. I told you you have a bullet in your head because you refuse to believe the US would go to war solely on political reasons.
BTW, sure size of military doesn't make a big difference when you have massive technology, but Iraq had feeble outdated weapons. Last year the US spent 50% of the world's defense spending while Iraq spent less than half a percent. Their military was 3 times as powerful in 91 and they couldn't successfully take over Kuwait then, which is the size of Vermont compared to their California.
Quote:
and about howard dean. He has said if not bragged numerous times of how he "balanced" his states budget and had made free healthcare. It has been shown the bulk of this free health care is paid by federal tax payers. How is that not a lie?
That's not a lie, that's an exclusion. If I tell you I made a birdhouse, but exclude the fact that the wood and tools were my friend Jerry's, I'm not lying when I tell you I made a birdhouse.
Quote:
And you disect every aspect of that article by asking wheres the proof. I have yet to see any real reliable proof against most of bush's actions other than pasteings off cnn.com here. It seems to me the tiniest shred of evidence against something bush did wrong is accepted whereas dean is soem untouchable saint. That was a news article if the author cited and back up everything that was said it would have been incredibly long. No one would read that, thus making it worthless to post. You asked for some lies from howard dean i showed you some of them.
Don't even start defending Bush. There's no way a rational person can look in the mirror and say they believe he hasn't told a bulk of lies and isn't corrupt. Dean is "some untouchable saint" because the shit the righties have on him is mostly unimportant, as that article showed. Bush has had a few years as president, there's just a lot more to talk about.
BTW, you didn't present one lie.
Quote:
Although you say there is not sufficent proof i am certinly not gonna spend any of my time hunting down any missing doing's of dean along with an essay of evidence backing it up.
That's not much of an "essay of evidence" if after my dissection you can only defend the part about his balanced budget, which wasn't a lie at all.
-------------------- Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: US losses in Iraq [Re: SlapnutRob]
#1712940 - 07/13/03 10:30 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Damn slapnut, those are some of the best arguments I've seen on these boards. Nice job! 
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