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Offlineshirley knott
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pan cyan first try (failed)
    #1700148 - 07/09/03 05:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

This is my first try with a species of fungus other than ps. cubensis. if it's successful, i'm away to try plenty of others. wish me luck  :heartpump:

19 June - poured 5 half-jarsfuls of dry wild birdseed into pillowcase. soaked pillowcase in saucepan of water. changed water three times altogether. soaked 24h. then hung pillowcase up to drain (corner downwards) for 2 hours, so there's no dripping at all.



20 June - loaded wbs into jars - now each approx two-thirds-full. put square of tyvek on top, and added lids (one half-inch hole and one teeny injection hole, though i'm not using the injection hole this time, as i have agar from a friend). loaded into pressure cooker, and cooked 15psi for 90 mins. cooled overnight, in the unopened pc.







24 June - i'd been supplied with cyan mycelium on an agar plate, and agar pieces in ziplock bags: cleaned hands, donned mask, cleaned jars, loosened jar lids, heated then swabbed tweezers, opened myc bag, removed lid, tweezed out myc on agar sliver, flicked / knocked into jar, replaced lid. repeated x 4. total 5 jars inoculated with panaeolus cyanascens.





28 June - jars growing I think (?) ? looks like the kind of thing I?d have chucked if this was cubensis: tiny white dots, thickening slightly but still new to me??. I expect it to turn green at any moment!

2 July ? 3 jars ? contaminated, chucked out: - probable wet spot?

  :frown:  :confused:

3 July - 3 new jarfuls soaked, pced, inoculated more carefully, with pieces freshly cut from the plate this time.

9 July - good news - the new ones (and 2 of the originals) are now growing along nicely. here they are today. you can see a sliver of agar in the top pic:

  :grin:

:grin: :grin:

  :grin: :grin: :grin:

that's it so far. sorry to leave you high and dry without fruit shots. i plan to wait until a week after full colonisation, then pasteurise some straw/poo (90%:10%) and  spawn it in.  :nut:

will post updates. sorry to put a pic on each line, i'll redo it if the codemasters fix a software bug that means i have no choice.

sk :kiss:




         


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OfflinemotamanM
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1700179 - 07/09/03 06:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Good Luck.. I can't wait to see your progress.  :mushroom2: 


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1700775 - 07/09/03 10:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Geez, that mycelium looks really white!

In all my experiments with Panaeolus species, I've found that the mycelium is more gray and whispy, looks somewhat similar to cobweb.

I've had bad experiences with shaking the this mycelium as well. I wouldn't recommend that. It will die and contaminate.

Very good luck to you shirley. :smile:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1700890 - 07/09/03 11:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

you cannot fail, you're blessed.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1704334 - 07/11/03 12:26 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

air exchange, and temp.

you will likely need to heat your fruiting chamber. to 88deg or so.

and cube air exchange is NOT sufficient.

you will definantly need to fan very often, or automate.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Raadt]
    #1704647 - 07/11/03 02:37 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You would say that fruiting temps are in the high 80's!? Whoa.

Doesn't the mushroom cultivator say high 70's?


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OfflinePaid
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1704745 - 07/11/03 03:08 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Good luck Shirl :-)
Looking good so far mate.


You always have to sleep on the wet spot :tongue:


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Offlinem0rb
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Paid]
    #1705025 - 07/11/03 04:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Good luck shirley!  My friend has followed your wonderful posts in the past, and thanks you for all the great contributions you have made to this community.  :smile:  You are truely amazing sometimes with what information you give back to others. Eric and that monkey of yours must be some lucky animals...and um.. people too!  hehehe

Cant wait to see how this turns out. I will eagerly be checking back daily like a little kid at the toy store!


-m0rb-


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OfflineJackal
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: m0rb]
    #1705060 - 07/11/03 05:32 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, hope this works for you. I really wanted to try Pans, but mine contammed. Fingers crossed. :laugh:


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Jackal]
    #1706065 - 07/11/03 03:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Pans are the best....
Your doing good so far:)
A little lime and dung goes a long way.

Cant wait to see your success

Ralphster44


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: m0rb]
    #1706662 - 07/11/03 07:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

thank you all for your too-kind and unwarranted words of encouragement  :smile:  (/me does a midair backflip and flushes red)

i'm a newbie too, i just love this hobby to pieces, and get a real buzz from sharing my newly-learned tips, and showing off my successes  :laugh:
i have plenty failures, too, but i don't post those so often  :tongue: :noway: always happy to help if i can, on the boards or by pm.

i feel compelled to give updates even when not much is happening, so here's the first:

1. 2 jars, inoculated from dodgy wedges 24/06:
the one on the right was shaken, and never recovered. lesson learned #1 ! still not sure if these will progress to full colonisation.

2. 3 jars, inoculated from fresh plate wedges 3/07:   :smile: these look like they'll make it to stage 2

3. a cubensis jar (creeper) at 99%, for comparison: - whiter, thicker, more rhizomorphic (rope-like tendrils)

i'm left a little confused as to fruiting temps, though that is still a way off. i had thought that 75-80 would be sufficient. i also have no idea as to any differences expected in spawn run time, prepinning time etc, but what the hell: THAT is the funnest part of this hobby, the steep bit of the learning curve when it's all new and exciting.

sk :heartpump:               


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Offlinetastyshroom
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1706669 - 07/11/03 07:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Looks good


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Offlinem0rb
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: tastyshroom]
    #1723813 - 07/17/03 03:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

ooh man! the suspense! aaaaah!


-m0rb-


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Offlineshirley knott
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pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: m0rb]
    #1732209 - 07/20/03 02:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

20 july update - the 2 jars (inoculated 26 june, one shaken) are continuing as they were. the shaken one looks stalled and i've given up on it. the other one continues to advance. i think the wbs was a little dry, hence the slow progress.

>>>>>>>>>>>

the 3 others (inoculated 3 july) are munching slowly:

if they were cubes i'd shake to speed em up, but i'm gonna just wait it out. however,  :confused: is this lipstick mould i'm seeing? all three opf these have a pale pinkish tinge. could it be from the 'red bombs' (red millet) that fugu talks about, or does it look bad?




it's a very pale pink, but it's pink nonetheless - more so than comes out in these crappy webcam pictures. i'm gonna stick these last two in the contam forum, in case it triggers somebody's memory there too.

sk :blush: 


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Offlinescotsman1
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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: shirley knott]
    #1732225 - 07/20/03 02:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

LOOKING GOOD

i was once told to remove
the black seeds from the mix
sunflower seeds if i remember
correctly
i cant remember the reason though
you'd need to see Hip about that

but your is looking good

your leaving your footprint in the
mushroom community


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: scotsman1]
    #1733914 - 07/21/03 03:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I've seen a similar PINK experience with pans in birdseed. I wasn't sure what it was so I threw them out. get a more experienced answer before you do so. I was told it was a nasty bacteria. Anything that stains pink has to be pretty bad, but I think your right on the money with the dye or the colors comming out.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: scotsman1]
    #1734722 - 07/21/03 01:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'd like to know why you take out the sunflower seeds in WBS.


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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1736121 - 07/21/03 09:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

harder to sterilize, high fat content and low nutritional value for the fungi.. its waste that also attracts bacteria- i made the mistake of using it alone one time =\


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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: ]
    #1736200 - 07/21/03 09:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

im a newbie and i probably would just screw up a pan grow. But wouldn't you think rye berries would work well with the pans? the suspense of this grow is killing me. i wish joushua would try these too.


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Offlinescotsman1
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Re: pan cyan growlog - ?lipstick mould? [Re: ]
    #1737935 - 07/22/03 12:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
harder to sterilize, high fat content and low nutritional value for the fungi.. its waste that also attracts bacteria- i made the mistake of using it alone one time =\




i new there was a good reason for it

take no chances
cut no corners


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: angryshroom]
    #1738567 - 07/22/03 04:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

OOPS! I meant to say 82. lol.

good call angry!

don't pay attention to me, it appears i'm retarded!


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Raadt]
    #1738584 - 07/22/03 04:54 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i'm still worried about this  pink :

and this   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>:

:shake:   


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OfflinePaid
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1738688 - 07/22/03 05:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

does it seem to be spreading?


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Paid]
    #1738711 - 07/22/03 05:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i can't say i've tracked it that closely. but i don't think it was there two weeks ago. any tips to track it? a marker pen maybe?


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OfflinePaid
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1740183 - 07/23/03 01:59 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yep, draw around it with a marker (black) then keepan eye on
it, see if it moves outside the marker line.
I still think it could be dyes from the seed though.
Good luck mate.


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Invisibledog
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1740637 - 07/23/03 11:27 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Nice log Shirley!  :laugh:
 


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: dog]
    #1743750 - 07/24/03 05:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Pan cyan myc do look a little weird if you compare to cubensis..but check if it spreads, otherwise it?s allgood.

peace..


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OfflineMrSleep
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1744339 - 07/24/03 12:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think Paid might be right.
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Offlinekingkc
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: MrSleep]
    #1745185 - 07/24/03 05:50 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

All is looking good for you there Shirl.


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OfflineSev
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Paid]
    #1749760 - 07/26/03 01:10 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paid said:
Yep, draw around it with a marker (black) then keepan eye on
it, see if it moves outside the marker line.
I still think it could be dyes from the seed though.
Good luck mate. 




...They don't dye millet, I don't think. :smile: 


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Sev]
    #1750010 - 07/26/03 03:02 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

No, but all grains contain natural dyes, and red millet i would think, contains red dyes?



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Offlinem0rb
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Paid]
    #1754842 - 07/28/03 05:04 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I believe red millet doesnt contain dyes, I'm pretty sure that is just the color of the protective seed husk.... but I guess I could be wronge.


-m0rb-


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Offlinecnidarium
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: m0rb]
    #1765657 - 07/31/03 12:16 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

any updates?


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: m0rb]
    #1767663 - 08/01/03 12:27 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

m0rb said:
I believe red millet doesnt contain dyes, I'm pretty sure that is just the color of the protective seed husk.... but I guess I could be wronge.


-m0rb- 





The natural colors can come off of the Husk as you call it. :smile: 


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Offlinem0rb
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #1777375 - 08/04/03 04:29 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I agree FocusHawaii. :smile: How is it going Shirley? all of us cannot wait to see whats going on with that grow!


-m0rb-


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: m0rb]
    #1777905 - 08/04/03 12:41 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

nothing new to add - apart from the one stalled one, all the other 4 jars are slowly eating downwards, and appear to be about 90% through. i'm in no rush - hopefully the next update with pics will be in a fortnight or so, when the spawn is spawned.


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Invisibleph_plus
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1784332 - 08/06/03 09:14 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

    In my limited experience, they colonize a little slower then Cubies.  And slows down noticeably with the nutrients becoming less. But in your pics myc. looks really strong. My jars were covered with a grayish myc. and more loosely colonized. At first i thought that was cobweb or any other contam. But day by day it got wighter and brighter...... :smile: Then a Straw+poo spawned with it........... They worked great...... But getting prints out of them is a pain in the ass..... You have to motivate them and beg 'em to donate you some spores.....  :sad: I blieve your stalled jar will be ok..... everything'll be fine again....like the old timesss.... Best of luck!  :grin:


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OfflinePaid
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1784342 - 08/06/03 09:28 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I'm a little worried that you could have some
typical P. Cubensis contamination :-(
As my Pan cyan mycelium ( From the same culture
as shirls ) is far more wispy



I hope not, but i'm thinking it is :-(
Time will tell though.



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Offlineirolltrss
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: Paid]
    #1785626 - 08/06/03 05:48 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

wood lovers havwe weird mycelium. my psilocybe suberginosa is only a few days old but te myc is almos t mushy looking


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: irolltrss]
    #1785662 - 08/06/03 05:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, wood lovers are strong and white, simular to
cubensis i.m.e but a little more fluffy, well azures, Ps. cyans and suberginosa's are. Psilocybe semperviva, Psilocybe bohemica and
Psilocybe arcana seem far more wispy.

But Pan cyans are dung lovers :-(


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Offlineshirley knott
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cyan growlog update - jars at 80-90% [Re: Paid]
    #1792895 - 08/08/03 06:29 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

(yawn) update:

this is the shittiest of about 3 cyan logs going now. mine are gonna come last  :confused: (and they may even be 'contamned' with cubensis by many accounts :tongue:)

anyway - on they plod. i markered around the pink spots, which seem to have been contained. there may have been a few temp fluctuations to explain the growth spurt lines.

>>>>>>>>2 from 24 june inoc>>>>>>>

>>and three from 3 jul innoc>>>>

slowly slowly catchee monkey, i hopeee   


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1802322 - 08/11/03 05:34 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Those are some questionable jars of spawn.

In the future I would use less substrate in each jar, half of what you have there.

With those jars I wouldn't spawn STERILE/Pasteurized substrate. I would sandwich the colonized substrate between a bottom layer of bagged soil and then some bagged cow manure then the spawn then a layer of bagged manure then some more bagged soil on top. Keep it in the open air, not in a fruiting chamber, and keep the top layer moist. Use thin layers of manure/ soil, and a thick layer of spawn!!!

This technique woks well with questionable spawn(contamination). Won't produce enormous flushes, but it is better then potentially spawning alot of manure with contamination.

The Birdseed should produce some mushrooms all on it's own, if you want to omit the manure. Just sandwich between two layers of good potting soil, and keep moist, not wet!!

The key is open air, and non-sterile casing materials.



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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: ]
    #1802343 - 08/11/03 05:42 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

thank you, Teonan! :loveeyes: I have long been an admirer of your work, and these tips are gold dust to me. I do not have any 'bagged' manure, just a few kilos of dried out horse dung. i was intrigued by your advice to grow in the open rather than in a chamber, but will be following your advice as closely as i can.

it's a pretty disappointing project so far, but i'm enjoying it as much as ever. even a failed attempt (and it's not over til the fat lady sings) teaches many new lessons.

uh-oh. why is that fat lady getting that microphone out? :shake:

sk :lol: 


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Anonymous

Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1802425 - 08/11/03 06:02 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

That will work. The IMPORTANT THING is to not paseurize/sterilize the stuff first. And fruit it in the open air, just misting to rehydrate the surface of the casing.

Just make sure you bring the manure and the soil up to field capacity moisture content before building the layers.

I have obtained a few small fruits off of VERY contaminated spawn this way. It was better for me then just tossing the stuff. And if it really isn't to contaminated, you could get more then a few.

This method is essentially the same as dumping old casings and contaminated spawn into the garden, and getting a few fruits. Except you can use a small rubbermaid, and leave it on a table in your room!! I live in a condo, so I have no backyard garden to toss the stuff into, so I gave this a try and it worked. Just use a small enough rubbermaid so that the very top of the completed casing is almost even with the top of the rubbermaid. You don't want any stagnant air on the surface of the casing.





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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: ]
    #1805887 - 08/12/03 03:46 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Teonan explained:.....use a small rubbermaid, and leave it on a table in your room!! ............ Just use a small enough rubbermaid so that the very top of the completed casing is almost even with the top of the rubbermaid



:shocked:casing tub, up to the top, on table? no tub outside it at all?
:smile:rubbermaid is the casing tub. filled to the brim, sitting on the table ?
:laugh:and should i rig up the fishtank tubing to aim at it like a little waterfall, for continuous air exchange?

have i got this right? please explain one more time for this thicko, who is caught up in the concepts i have used in the past! :confused:

sk :tongue:  (hopefully the cats wouldn't try to use it as a toilet! )     


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1806018 - 08/12/03 04:22 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>hopefully the cats wouldn't try to use it as a toilet!

nothing wrong with some extra substrate :wink:

Erik006



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Anonymous

Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1806479 - 08/12/03 06:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Casing tub 4 Quart.
No tub surrounding it.

Bottom layer of non-sterile bagged potting soil.
Layer of spawn on top of that.
Layer of manure on top of that.(non sterile) and very thin. Optional.
Layer of non-sterile bagged potting soil.

All of these layers should bring you within the top 1/8 inch of the surface of the 4 quart tub. All layers should be at the proper moisture content.

You want no HIGH humidity environmnet at the surface of the soil, other then misting manually with a spray bottle, and only when it appears to be getting dry. Essentially you are replacing the moisture of the top casing soil only.

If you were to surround this in another rubbermaid, you would create an environmnet that favors CONTAMINATION. Remember that the NORMAL methods of fruiting in clean substrates is EXCLUSIONARY. There are no contaminants present. If there are, that is why they spread so rapidly.

Pins are not going to be forming at the surface of the casing with the salvage method, they will be coming from beneath the soil surface, and braking through the top. So manintaing absolute ideal conditions at the surface of the casing is counter productive. Ideal conditions will favor contaminants, not mushrooms at the surface layer.

Yes if you have cats they might mistake it for a toilet, so EXCLUDE them from the room!!!

When building the layers, make sure your spawn layer is completely surrounded on all sides by the casing layers. I.E, don't lay the spawn out so it's layer reaches the sides of the rubbermaid. Similar to adding alittle more substrate after spawning a bulk casing to the surface to not have any of the spawn exposed, post innoculation, prior to colonization.

This was just a suggestion, that has worked for me in similar situations.
Situatins were I did not feel comfortable with the appearance of jars of spawn, and did not want to toss the spawn that I had no duplicates prepared.







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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: ]
    #1806571 - 08/12/03 06:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

thank you teonan for taking the time to write this. it is greatly appreciated.  :heartpump:

if you ever need anything in return that i can help with, i'll be sure to pitch in (obviously it won't be to do with mushroom cultivation!). you may pick up on my strange and pitiful areas of knowledge in the occasional post - pm any specific queries, and i'll trade wisdom for wisdom! i owe you one.

knowledge is power! :laugh:   


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Invisibledog
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1813164 - 08/14/03 12:51 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

This thread is FULL of great information.  :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks guys.  (seeing visions of future pan cyans) 


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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: dog]
    #1845663 - 08/24/03 04:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

well, in case anyone wondered, the update situation isn't good  :frown: that fat lady showed up, and she can really hit the high notes.

i followed teodude's advice and did a nonsterile spawning today, exactly as advised. the spawn smelt musty (and worse) towards the bottom. a black paint tub is now sitting atop the fridge, out of the cats' way. i don't hold much hope for it....perhaps some contams will race each other to be the first to feast on the corpse...

ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained etc etc etc..... :confused: 

edit: p.s. (just in case  :wink: :confused: :crazy:) >


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Edited by shirley knott (08/25/03 12:08 PM)


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Invisiblehoushroom
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: shirley knott]
    #1846011 - 08/24/03 07:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

that sucks to hear, hopefully something will come out of it.  use the experience and start another one :grin: 


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: pan cyan growlog [Re: houshroom]
    #1846147 - 08/24/03 08:18 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, don't be down Shirl!  Those pans are more difficult than cubes.  Definately give it another shot, and keep your head up.  Your doing great! :smile:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Panaeolus

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