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 modern.shaman
San Mescalito
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,244
Loc: Zone 13
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 Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks  [Re: Juke Adro]
#18003709 - 03/24/13 01:18 PM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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It may be a mutant... I've never seen it before and am just guessing that it's a monstrose Astrophytum Super Kabuto hybrid but could very well be a chimera.
Your amazing pictures are always welcome. 
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ken1993
Receptive Noob +10 points
Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 466
Loc: Your mind
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18005396 - 03/24/13 06:54 PM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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Reading that thread of Una's makes me want to get into TC so badly!
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SuperD
Cacti junky
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: ken1993]
#18005548 - 03/24/13 07:31 PM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
ken1993 said:
Reading that thread of Una's makes me want to get into TC so badly!
I was thinking the same lol. It looks intriguing.
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    D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. 
Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s),  me if you have any for trade
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Methadone
Opiate
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 726
Loc: El Sur
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: ken1993]
#18007712 - 03/25/13 09:04 AM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Juke Adro said:
My two new cacti!!!!! Arghhhhh I'm way too excited! Omg FUCK.
 
<3
Quote:
ken1993 said:
Reading that thread of Una's makes me want to get into TC so badly!
I share the same fascination, but damn its an expensive hobby to set up correctly.
Tissue culture is definitely an interesting avenue to explore. You could directly influence the mutation and document exactly how.
I think I remember reading that Gymnocalycium mihanovichii 'moon cacti' were originally 'created' by using radiation to alter their DNA in a controlled environment. Anyone going for an x-ray anytime soon?
-M
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 Juke Adro
I love peach fluff
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
#18008907 - 03/25/13 01:59 PM (11 years, 24 days ago) |
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Do you really think radiation would work?
Our customs uses radiation to kill all the seeds but that machine could be different than an normal X-ray machine.
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Someone said: im actually not using ms, im using prints.
   Trade List
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Joshewon
Stranger
Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 59
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#18009075 - 03/25/13 02:44 PM (11 years, 24 days ago) |
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Thanks for the great info
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,244
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#18009201 - 03/25/13 03:17 PM (11 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Juke Adro said:
Do you really think radiation would work?
Our customs uses radiation to kill all the seeds but that machine could be different than an normal X-ray machine.
It should work but MAY need stronger or multiple exposure. Juke if your planning on trying this take several seed packs and do different amount of radiation to see which is most effective.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18009722 - 03/25/13 05:00 PM (11 years, 24 days ago) |
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Ill just drop a pack of 1000 seeds off At my local surgery and leave them in the room for one day where they so X-rays then pick them up after work.
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Someone said: im actually not using ms, im using prints.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#18037228 - 03/31/13 12:57 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Hi.
I Am not really sure what is this really. I mean this is Lophophora Williamsii button grafted on Trichocereus Macrogonus as stock.
I have still wondering since that button doesn't have started to grown from normal peyote way anymore. Even new offshoots are very weird. Normally peyote have actually "hole" in the middle if I can put it that way. This craft growing new pups from middle of every pup it has made.
And yes.. There is 2-headed pups, one "main pup" what has grown from the middle of grafted button started to grow new grow but it grows like the button was starting to grow at first time.
I have waited to post these pics cause I was think this maybe some normal way of peyote graft grows, but seesm this graft doesn't make any "normal" peyote looking new offshoots. They are turning to grow out from middle. It is hard to put it to words but these button's doesn't anymore grow normally. There are double head pups, or pup what seems to be normal, but later it grows these same looking offshoots from the center of the pup, normally new pups form from the aeroles near the main head, but this graft force growth from the center of button. I have grafted this at 14th day of october.
What you think? Does this will starts to form "normal" heads or does some kind of different form of growth occurs? I am really confusing about this. Day by day, this craft doesn't make "sense" like normally peyote way used to grow.
These all new pups grow from middle of one very small 1,5cm diameter pup. Formation of lophophora has been like this since October 2012 when I grafted one small offshoot.
In this picture is the first pup what force new grown from middle of the pup:
There is the first pup grown from middle and near is two headed pup:
 
Took this today, it's a little shady but I would like to show how the pupping happening. This pups from center of round peyote shape button and make new. In the picture is first center grown pup growing new growth from center of button.
 
..these shady pics are actually taken opposite sides of them to make some sense out of this nonsense growth
Is has some scars cause of fight of spider mites but mites are gone from this graft. Still I am wondering will this never starting to grow like normal peyote that the center of button is "hairy" and pups comes from the side aeroles.
Seems this is forcing itself to grow columnar cause it pups from middle of pup and make this kind of random growing. It seems these pups are going to be "normal" but the pup in the shady picture seems that new pups makes same thing than grafted pup does and it has continue that way growing.
To make things clear, this is photo from 6th of December when style of grown started to go like it's pupping from middle. Pics up there are taken at between 28-39 day of March.
...this is just same graft than pics above and the "base button" what is not even mainly seen today..It has made all these new growth from the middle this small grafted pup. Reason I post this there is cause now the "oldest" pup was starting to take this kind of growth an I think this graft will never start to make normally looking peyote..
I am excited about this if this keeps going to grow like this without "normal" peyote buttons. I really don't know what should I say this so I post it there. Give comments have you got occur peyote grafting like this?
I will post more update pics from this graft! I want to see does this have changed the growing style completely or not. This is only peyote graft what does this kind of grown on my collection.
Anyone kno why this is started to grown from the center of button? This is easily seen when looking this graft by for real, not from pictures, but the growing style of this graft is different. This graft just pupping and force new growth from the middle of button. New growth it's not "normal one pup" and these pups will turn like in the epicture where graft was young, they prefer force growth from middle of pup and I can actually calculate there is many two headed pups, another side of the "two head" grown it's littlebit like "normal" but still it will force new grown from the middle of pup.
I post pics later on this. Now the growing season is on and this is growing. IF this is chance for some reason to normal head peyote, this specimen just can't handle the fast growth rate. BUT if this starts to keep going like this, what do you guys think? This is not caespitosa cactus button grafted. It's small pup taken from adult normal peyote cactus.
When looking this by close eye it is interesting, there are not normal pups actually.. I can't locate the point where they grow from. I just can see these every pups are growing from the middle of grafted button OR they are attached to each other.
There are 3 "clumps" coming from middle of main button and now this graft doesn't make any sense where and how it would be grow. There is two reasons: too fast growth rate and this specimen can't handle it or I have been lucky and got mutated grown peyote.
Scars looks bad on the graft, but they will disappear soon, spider mites are going to loose the war against me! 
Cause I have never seen growth like this from grafted peyote, this is my number one cactus at the moment. Can't predict what should it look like 1 year from now on. I love bizzare growths so much 
Edited by intelligentlife (03/31/13 01:01 PM)
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,244
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: intelligentlife]
#18037737 - 03/31/13 03:02 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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That is pretty cool. That lopho reminded me of the Trichocereus 'Sausage Plant' that also pups from the top.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18037998 - 03/31/13 03:56 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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That is weird but I just think its probably a mutant, a very cool mutant.
P.s. modern shaman I actually just got a sausage plant and I'm very excited
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Someone said: im actually not using ms, im using prints.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#18040981 - 04/01/13 02:22 AM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Ye mutation comes to my mind too.. Just wanted to grow it like that ~4months before write anything more about that. I just waited it to pup original looking pups but it get ever harder to see how this cactus is even going to grow.
If you are interested to see it I can give pictures later when it has grown longer. There can still chance it turn to normal growth.. I don't know but for me it seems this peyote genus can't handle growing while grafted or something.(?)
What comes to my mind is degraft this weird grown peyote after year or two when it is bigger. How's if this keeps growing like this after rooted to own roots? Does it mean there is really new mutation from peyote exist?
What would be chance that this is just mutation cause of fast growth. If I degraft this, can there possibility it starts to grow like normal peyote. And yes this button what grows mutated is taken from real lophophora williamsii cactus, it really not was caespitosa, real peyote.
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gr33ntea
That Guy
Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: intelligentlife]
#18106751 - 04/14/13 05:58 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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This should be worth a read, pretty much to summaries: all grafted plants become genetically modified to some extent.
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/05/01/unintentional-genetic-engineering-grafted-plants-trade-gen/
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,244
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: gr33ntea]
#18107332 - 04/14/13 10:26 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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gr33ntea thanks for that link. I was gonna ask if just grafting itself would produce mutations since I'm starting to see some weird pups and growth on mine. Your link has answered that. I would imagine that the smaller the scion the more chance of a mutation/altered appearance since there would be a greater exchange.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18108448 - 04/14/13 02:36 PM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
gr33ntea said:
This should be worth a read, pretty much to summaries: all grafted plants become genetically modified to some extent.
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/05/01/unintentional-genetic-engineering-grafted-plants-trade-gen/
That's why the ario monstrose of mine has red purple spines!!!! I fucken knew it was chimera somewhat!!!' Since when does a ariocarpus have deadly red purple spines? Never! Buy the mytrillocactus stock does!!!
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Someone said: im actually not using ms, im using prints.
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gr33ntea
That Guy
Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18111718 - 04/15/13 07:18 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
modern.shaman said:
gr33ntea thanks for that link. I was gonna ask if just grafting itself would produce mutations since I'm starting to see some weird pups and growth on mine. Your link has answered that. I would imagine that the smaller the scion the more chance of a mutation/altered appearance since there would be a greater exchange.
That would make sense man,I am wondering why do some scions so readily mix with the stock then there must be some factor maybe vascular rings touching perfectly. ALSO would a Pilocereus and Red ball cactus make a purple cactus, cause red + blue = purple (im being overly optimistic arent i?) 
Quote:
Juke Adro said:
dude i spent like forever looking for the picture of the ario monstrose, i got distracted and pressed page 160 of your post and found myself looking at pictures of some women with your name written on her with glow in the dark ink, and some user called Duke Adro? Finally i found it on page two lol :|
Is it the one? please say yes
Edited by gr33ntea (04/15/13 10:00 PM)
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facepockets
In Search of Equilibrium
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 313
Loc: 5b
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: gr33ntea]
#18254321 - 05/12/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm gonna give this thread a little revival bump. I grafted an
Ariocarpus fissuratus onto a Pereskiopsis cutting, and now I've got some kind of unusual growth.
April 29th
May 3rd
May 12th
I guess it's hard to tell at this point exactly what is happening, but
would ya'll consider this a chimera? I was baffled by those lil tumors
popping out below any node.
Quote:
gr33ntea said:
This should be worth a read, pretty much to summaries: all grafted plants become genetically modified to some extent.
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/05/01/unintentional-genetic-engineering-grafted-plants-trade-gen/
That was a good read! Thanks for the link.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,244
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: facepockets]
#18254754 - 05/12/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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That looks VERY promising. Looks like it may be a chimera. I've seen one of a Ariocarpus x Pereskiopsis chimera on ebay however it seems unstable due to the rapid growth and quickly reverts to pereskiopsis.
Post an update.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,739
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks *DELETED* [Re: modern.shaman]
#18258230 - 05/13/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by durian_2008
Reason for deletion: .
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intelligentlife
Noaidi
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: durian_2008]
#18268098 - 05/15/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi all.
I would want to share pictures with you. This graft has started to grow at december. It is about 22 weeks now since it started to attach in to trichocereus stock. I think this is just some mutation but it's my first cactus graft what has taken very different form than the peyote where I cut very small offshoot. As I have said few posts before this is from normal lophophora williamsii cactus.
Take a look.. I found this very interesting to follow the growth cause I can't predict at all what kind of form this will go after 1, 2 or 3 years...
  yarrr..
graft have some spider mite damage but new growth is nice. Cause this will continue to grow like this I really don't know does this ever will flower. Every time I look this it looks that scion trying to get "columnar" form.
Interesting for me.. I just post these pics in to this thread cause it is very common to graft peyote to trichocereus and this kind of form is somehow unique. I have planned to take cutting after scion has grown more and try to look does this form stays or what happens. Before that I can only wait and look the interesting process of scion growth.
This is not actually chimera but some kind of mutation this is. It's very nice to get rare forms with very common species at grafting.
I don't know does dimethoat(strong insecticide) and superglue(used to keep scion at top of columnar) something to do with this.. That's only graft what has taken very different form than the actual peyote where I cut the very small offshoot.
Edited by intelligentlife (05/15/13 10:28 AM)
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