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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: karode13]
#17565573 - 01/18/13 12:03 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Im not talking about what you guys are! i don't think you understood what i said. Im talking about using bap as a glue for a variegated plant... so we remove one variegated areole and throw away then apply bap to flesh then replace with a new areole from a different species then allow to take then bap the areole for a pup. not areole graft areole replacement! I've tried it with crest areoles and the crests turn normal (non crested) so if you have a crested plant you wish to see normal you can simply do that and you will have your self a new plant non crested anymore there are heaps of cool things you can do with cacti to change them we just have to keep doing trials and playing and in a year another new practice can be learnt. only certain traits such as variegation can be pulled through a areole so that's where you are going to get your magic from! Im currently playing around with this as a new and semi old project.
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Methadone
Opiate



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 726
Loc: El Sur
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: karode13]
#17567233 - 01/18/13 10:56 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
karode13 said: The mutation wouldn't be passed on to the scion as the variegation in cacti isn't caused by a virus but by unstable genes. If it were a virus then yes, this may be a possibility. Like tulips for example.
Grafting a variegated areole on to pereskiopsis would be an alternate way of producing new plants if one weren't so keen on using BAP.
I have Teratopia and a scanner but posting copyrighted work is kind of a no no. I am willing to post certain bits if people know what they're after.
@Methadone
Indeed this is what I was referring to. As far as contagious variegation, I think there is something in Teratopia that references a few instances of this in succulent plants, but like I said, I need to re-read it.
I'm rusty as can be, my cacti have been in survival mode for two years because I've been so busy with work, but I'm getting back into the hobby a bit more seriously again. 
-M
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pen15



Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
#17568117 - 01/18/13 01:58 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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if they could talk they would say "kill me"
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: pen15]
#17569553 - 01/18/13 06:33 PM (11 years, 11 days ago) |
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pen15 I know some people believe this but they could be super mutants but I do agree some look sick.
I'll be buying a copy of this book for myself as I'm too interested now not too. Should be here next week; I'm pretty excited.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks *DELETED* [Re: modern.shaman]
#17573858 - 01/19/13 03:04 PM (11 years, 11 days ago) |
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Post deleted by durian_2008
Reason for deletion: .
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Methadone
Opiate



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 726
Loc: El Sur
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: durian_2008]
#17589106 - 01/22/13 07:32 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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Regarding infectious chlorosis (contagious variegation) from teratopia:
After re-reading it, there are some confirmed cases of variegation being contagious in plants. The author cites the example of jasmine grafts as carrying the variegation and states that it is caused as a virus. The author further states that he has done some testing with Pachypodium lamerei grafts but he is convinced the variegation is not viral. The book also states that there are no known cases of infectious chlorosis known in succulents.
Very hard to force any mutations it seems. Best to just graft as normal and cross your fingers. 
-M
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
#17592052 - 01/22/13 06:10 PM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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So i should stop banging my cacti up with variegated cacti juice injections
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lurkmode
Stranger


Registered: 05/20/08
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#17597988 - 01/23/13 05:44 PM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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the pics in this thread are 
nice work people. I don't trust mice elf well enough to try this. I just like to propogate the fuck out of my bridges. I'm going to have more cactus than I know what to do with at some point.
BTW, that crested Pedro on page one is fucking allsum. Lucky guy methadone!
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: lurkmode]
#17599796 - 01/23/13 11:10 PM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Both seemed to have taken well the penor on the variegated echinopsis is going to be a weird one i might rip off every pup from now until the end of the year and see what comes the loph i shouldn't have grafted to the penor i should have grafted a regular bridgesii but i have heaps of them so ill just do another one.
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gr33ntea
That Guy


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#17633061 - 01/30/13 01:09 AM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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This has got to be the most interesting thread i have read on shroomery 
I really want to participate in these experimentation's should i buy a 60cm long (2 foot) cereus peruvianus monstrous/cristate for $25 ???
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: gr33ntea]
#17633098 - 01/30/13 01:22 AM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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No.
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gr33ntea
That Guy


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#17633114 - 01/30/13 01:27 AM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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no as in it's not worth it? Where would one get a monstrous?
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: gr33ntea]
#17633121 - 01/30/13 01:30 AM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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This thread isn't the place to talk about it sent.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
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Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#17775970 - 02/10/13 03:56 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Seems to have taken quite well. Now the waiting game. I've also made a few different types using variegated stocks! I don't know why but i just have the feeling one day the sicon is going to change......
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#17791335 - 02/12/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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After thinking of more ways to possible induce chimera to occur it would just seem that the best means would be MASS grafting onto stocks that have shown frequent chimera formations. As previously posted echinopsis is a stock that have formed many chimeras and has the 'best' chance in forming a chimera on purpose although this phenomena may occur with any two cacti. Hanazono on cactiguide sums it up best "you may able to see a Chimera if you did a lot of grafting". He has made a chimera from Astrophytum asterias/Hyrocereus.

Quote:
Juke Adro said: Im nearly crying here! I had a ariocarpus on a pere and it looked like the pere was the sicon after a month.... so me thinking it was just some retarded growth and it didn't work i chucked it in the pile of failed stocks and it dried and withered away Im 100% now after seeing this thread it was one of these FUCKING abnormalities The more you know!
Did it look something like this? From some other images it appears that the grow reverts to pereskiopsis likely due to the rapid growth.(Images were taken from a popular auction site) "A Possible Ariocarpus fissuratus chimera grafted on Pereskiopsis"
 
This person has a impressive collection of rare cultivator and crested forms of cacti. Some chimeras are found on pages 1, 3, 12, and 13.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#17792603 - 02/12/13 10:18 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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No not really it looked like a pereskiopsis but with warty skin and it had spines all over it. Im actually really upset about it cause it was one for sure I can remember it like yesterday but on the positive side that post alone made me look through all the failed stock and i found 3 grafts still trying as best they can to survive. I planted them up and they look good. ill edit in a picture shortly never throw the stocks away from now on i won't.
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Edited by Juke Adro (02/12/13 10:35 PM)
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro] 1
#18001410 - 03/23/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Recently I've had an interest in tissue cultures and have seen it is possible to induce 'chimeras' and hybrids in vitro. The most famous being work, involving cacti, done by Robert Wellens in Holland, the Succulent Tissue Culture. He is able to induce variegates in plants in vitro.
 Una (old member from here at the shroomery) has successfully induced crest in a trichocereus pachanoi. Una has many interesting threads on here and has a cactus tissue culture thread as well. Here is a post where he gives a basic run down on TC
There are many cultivators there were induced in tissue culture. They are also possible thru selective breading and massive amounts of seeds although very rare. Crosses with variegated parents tend to have variegated seedlings; only one parent needs to be variegated and using it as the father yields better results in most cases.
Another means of inducing mutations is treating seeds with herbicide or introducing herbicide within 1 month of germination. Those containing 2,4-D seem most likely to induce mutations according to Una (paraphrasing). Other chemicals that kills cells but not to the extent where it dies (bleach solution possibly) can also be used to created variegates and other mutations by damaging the dna. For those that already have herbicide doing a small experiment with some seeds/seedlings may prove worth while.
I haven't been able to experiment with other stocks due to limited space and money. I'm looking forward to when my cacti flower so I can experiment with Intergeneric crossing.
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For now I'll 'end' this thread by saying Tissue Culture is the way to go for obtaining mutated cacti. With enough knowledge and experimentation one can consistently induce mutations in cacti using tissue cultures.
Experimenting with different stock seems like a waste of time knowing that via tissue culture one can yield the same results and can easily micro-propagate them with the same method rather than grafting and hoping that one can produce a result.
Do Not Stop Experimenting. This is how new discoveries are made. Every failed experiment is one step closer to success.
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
Loc: Inside your head
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
#18002197 - 03/24/13 04:50 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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My two new cacti!!!!! Arghhhhh I'm way too excited! Omg FUCK.
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Juke Adro]
#18002749 - 03/24/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Both of those are awesome Juke. Nice score And thanks for that post modern! Very informative. I'd never heard of that cement tek before I actually want to give that a try as well and see what happens.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Juke Adro
I love peach fluff


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 6,957
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Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: SuperD]
#18003610 - 03/24/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry for posting them in here I thought the astro may have been chimera but it seems its just a mutant with globular growth habits regardless how awesome
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