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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Creating a Cactus Chimera's; Mutations, Crested, Variegated and Lots Of Other Stuff
    #16987911 - 10/08/12 01:24 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Many members are grafting to propagate their rare cacti because of how special it is. We have a general consensus of using a Trichocereus Stock or Myrtillocactus Geometrizans because of their sustainability, strong roots and fast growth. However we fail to try other cacti stocks which may lead to a new chimera. I have seen two only two chimera's online(two images below) but recently have stumbled upon two other images.


Myrtillocactus cochal and Gymnocalycium mihanovichii cv. RED HIBOTAN


Ortegocactus macdougalii and Opuntia compressa

"Many years ago, this mutant appeared as a result of a grafting. It was made from Gymnocalycium mihanovichii v. fleischerianum and Echinopsis tubiflora. There are other chimera; Gymnocalycium mihanovichii v. fleischerianum and Hylocereus guatamalensis, Ariocarpus retusus and Echinopsis eyriesii. Circumstances which cause the chimera to appear include huge numbers of graftings. I have heard that cutting on stock's growth apex in rare instances made a few. However, nobody has succeeded to make chimera on purpose. The pictured plant was cut off from mature chimera. Both are growing well on their own roots." Source


Ariocarpus retusus and Echinopsis eyriesii


Gymnocalycium mihanovichii v. fleischerianum and Echinopsis tubiflora

Why don't we purposefully try to create a chimera by experimenting with multiple grafting stocks. Since lophophora are the fall to cactus here why don't we each take it upon ourselves to each try 1 different grafting stock and start eliminating a stock from the long list.


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Edited by modern.shaman (11/26/14 08:00 PM)


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #16989869 - 10/08/12 12:25 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

i have a pretty myrtillocalycium chimera.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: ferrel_human]
    #16990015 - 10/08/12 12:57 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Here is some more information on cactus chimeras for those that are interested.

Quote:

(graft-chimeras appear more frequently among Ariocarpus than among any other genus if they are grafted onto Echinopsis sp. or Myrtillocactus geometrizans.)

In some ornamental plants chimeras may be the result of lengthwise implanting and sophisticated techniques, a possible methods include cutting the stem at the midpoint and combining the lobes of stock and scion. It is supposed that the miscellaneous tissues in the joint point can accrete and give life to an adventitious new plant "chimera". But - as we know - nobody till now has succeeded to make cacti chimera on purpose. Circumstances which cause the chimera to appear include huge numbers of graftings.



Source


Also another cactus chimera
Astrophytum caput-medusae + Myrtillocactus geometrizans.


Quote:

Letter to Editor:

Dear Valery: I am Manuel Nevárez, the Digitostigma discoverer and coauthor of the description of this new genus/species, and owner of a Cactus Nursery in Mexico called Proyecto Digitostigma. I obtain a new graft chimera that I call + Digitomyrtillocactus cv. Nevárez.

Is a result of grafting an areole of Digitostigma caput-medusae on Myrtillocactus geometrizans. The plant shows some areoles with pure Digitostigma tissue and others half and a half. You can see some photos: 1-4.

As you can see, it is an unstable chimera, showing a stronh tendency to Digitostigma (photo 5).

There are a second plant with similar characteristics (photo 6).

Manuel Nevárez de los Reyes, Nuevo León, México.



Source


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Offlinedeadhor5
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #16990161 - 10/08/12 01:26 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Youve been putting out some extremely interesting posts lately modern! keep the info coming!! :laugh:


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: deadhor5]
    #16990569 - 10/08/12 02:22 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks. This topic has really got me interested as have cultivator cacti and unique hybrids. My cacti interests have greatly shifted in these past few months from only actives to unique and rare cacti.

Here is another article on chimeras posted here by "TheManWithTheHat" three years ago... unfortunately the images have been deleted.
Quote:

Here are some selected passages, with pages from the book to follow, from Teratopia:

“A large number of grafts are made (1) and, when united, cut across horizontally to expose the maximum area where the two tissues abut (2). All normal shoots that grow out subsequently are nipped out in order to encourage one to arise exactly on the line of the graft (3),  carrying up tissues of both components (4,5). This can then be propagated and selectively pruned to try to obtain the stable periclinical form of the chimera.”

“Mr. Hirao in Japan tells me that he has seen a number of sectorial chimeras of Ariocarpus Kotschubeyanus, Epithelantha Micromeris, Gymnocalycium Denudatum, and G. Michanovii following the grafting on Echinopsis, some of which he went on to describe and illustrate in Shaboten 25: 8-9 1960.”

“a Ubelmannia Pectinifera seedling was grafted on Echinopsis stock. The graft was successful and the scion grew to about 2 cm. After a number of years I noticed the stock had rotted and the rot had also gone into the scion. I managed to save a small piece which I successfully grafted onto a Cereus stock. As it began to grow I realized it was strange and had the color and some of the features of the Uebelmannia but the form of an Echinopsis. Subsequent behavior is totally in line with that of a chimera having a layer of Ubelmannia tissue over a core of Echinopsis. The flowers (which would arise from the meristematic cells below the surface) are like those of Echinopsis. This chimera is stable and reproducible from offsets, so deserves a name: + Uebelechinopsis for the partnership of Uebelmannia and Echinopsis, and 'Treetopper' as a cultivar name for a tophole introduction by the Trees.”

“The frontier between what we find attractive and what repels us as malignant is sometimes quite arbitrary. The “diseased” striped tulips and variegated abutilons have already been mentioned. Cactus growers sooner or later may come across a tumor-like outgrowth on one of their pet plants, often covered in a downy wool or colorful abortive flower buds. I have detached and grafted some of these, and the survivors eventually grew out and reverted to normal growth suggesting that the host cells were outgrowing a pathogen. A dramatic picture gallery of tumors that nobody could love is given by Dubrovsky (2002), who found many of the native cacti in the south of Baja California (Pachycereus Pringlei especially) to be scarred with amorphous corky tumours 2-80cm in diameter; some accompanied by a hemiparastic mistletoe, Phoradendron Diguetianum. He compares them to crown galls produced by Agrobacterium Tumefaciens in non-succulents."




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/11010433


This seems to be a great read; has anyone ever read any of this?


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InvisiblenaumM
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #16991346 - 10/08/12 04:16 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

No, but I've been meaning to. Many good breeders and nurserymen have recommended that book to me over and over again.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: naum]
    #16991632 - 10/08/12 05:13 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:
No, but I've been meaning to. Many good breeders and nurserymen have recommended that book to me over and over again.



same here.

i think it was on my to buy list at one time. themallacht recommended it to me.

and thanks to modern i joined the cultivars forum. too bad i have none

i'm off to the popular auction site.

i think they are a sponsor and i want to say their name so bad.


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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: ferrel_human]
    #16993078 - 10/08/12 08:34 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I hadn't heard of the cultivar forum before I just joined as well. I will have to check out the book as well :smile:
Thanks for the info guys

Cheers
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks *DELETED* [Re: GoOnThen]
    #16994019 - 10/08/12 10:48 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by durian_2008

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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: durian_2008]
    #17001706 - 10/09/12 11:30 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

This isn't on Chimera's however is extremely interesting and I will try this out in the near future though I would need some suggestions so I don't just end up mutilating a cactus. I will experiment this on an extra pedro cutting.

Quote:

"Some crested or monstrose plants appear diseased but aren’t really. A few do result from infection by virus or mycoplasma, but most are untested and we can only guess. A famous story from years ago has it that you can stick needles in the growing point of a cactus in order to induce crested growth(fasciation), but I don’t really know if this works. It’s possible that environmental conditions or other physical damage can bring about abnormal growth, as well."



Source


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InvisibleMethadone
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17002174 - 10/10/12 12:31 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

modern.shaman said:
Thanks. This topic has really got me interested as have cultivator cacti and unique hybrids. My cacti interests have greatly shifted in these past few months from only actives to unique and rare cacti.

Here is another article on chimeras posted here by "TheManWithTheHat" three years ago... unfortunately the images have been deleted.
Quote:

Here are some selected passages, with pages from the book to follow, from Teratopia:

“A large number of grafts are made (1) and, when united, cut across horizontally to expose the maximum area where the two tissues abut (2). All normal shoots that grow out subsequently are nipped out in order to encourage one to arise exactly on the line of the graft (3),  carrying up tissues of both components (4,5). This can then be propagated and selectively pruned to try to obtain the stable periclinical form of the chimera.”

“Mr. Hirao in Japan tells me that he has seen a number of sectorial chimeras of Ariocarpus Kotschubeyanus, Epithelantha Micromeris, Gymnocalycium Denudatum, and G. Michanovii following the grafting on Echinopsis, some of which he went on to describe and illustrate in Shaboten 25: 8-9 1960.”

“a Ubelmannia Pectinifera seedling was grafted on Echinopsis stock. The graft was successful and the scion grew to about 2 cm. After a number of years I noticed the stock had rotted and the rot had also gone into the scion. I managed to save a small piece which I successfully grafted onto a Cereus stock. As it began to grow I realized it was strange and had the color and some of the features of the Uebelmannia but the form of an Echinopsis. Subsequent behavior is totally in line with that of a chimera having a layer of Ubelmannia tissue over a core of Echinopsis. The flowers (which would arise from the meristematic cells below the surface) are like those of Echinopsis. This chimera is stable and reproducible from offsets, so deserves a name: + Uebelechinopsis for the partnership of Uebelmannia and Echinopsis, and 'Treetopper' as a cultivar name for a tophole introduction by the Trees.”

“The frontier between what we find attractive and what repels us as malignant is sometimes quite arbitrary. The “diseased” striped tulips and variegated abutilons have already been mentioned. Cactus growers sooner or later may come across a tumor-like outgrowth on one of their pet plants, often covered in a downy wool or colorful abortive flower buds. I have detached and grafted some of these, and the survivors eventually grew out and reverted to normal growth suggesting that the host cells were outgrowing a pathogen. A dramatic picture gallery of tumors that nobody could love is given by Dubrovsky (2002), who found many of the native cacti in the south of Baja California (Pachycereus Pringlei especially) to be scarred with amorphous corky tumours 2-80cm in diameter; some accompanied by a hemiparastic mistletoe, Phoradendron Diguetianum. He compares them to crown galls produced by Agrobacterium Tumefaciens in non-succulents."




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/11010433


This seems to be a great read; has anyone ever read any of this?





Excellent book. TheManIntheHat and I discussed the subject of chimera cacti pretty deep..

"“A large number of grafts are made (1) and, when united, cut across horizontally to expose the maximum area where the two tissues abut (2). All normal shoots that grow out subsequently are nipped out in order to encourage one to arise exactly on the line of the graft (3),  carrying up tissues of both components (4,5). This can then be propagated and selectively pruned to try to obtain the stable periclinical form of the chimera.”"


I attempted this a few times using BAP to force an adventitious growth bud from the vascular tissue, but it never worked.


"Some crested or monstrose plants appear diseased but aren’t really. A few do result from infection by virus or mycoplasma, but most are untested and we can only guess. A famous story from years ago has it that you can stick needles in the growing point of a cactus in order to induce crested growth(fasciation), but I don’t really know if this works. It’s possible that environmental conditions or other physical damage can bring about abnormal growth, as well."

Yes, verified. Opuntia subulata monstrose. There was an image floating around awhile back of a Pereskiopsis grafted to this plant and the condition carried to the scion, the pereskiopsis was forming shoots from every areole present, almost like it had been sprayed with a cytoknin.


If I recall right, variegation is the same in principle as chimera cacti, two different forms of tissue (albeit from the same genus) growing as one. I *have* successfully forced 100% variegated limbs from partially variegated cacti by applying Benzyaminopurine to an areole in an area with 100% tissue variegation.


-M


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OfflineR2-D2
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17002206 - 10/10/12 12:36 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

modern.shaman said:

This seems to be a great read; has anyone ever read any of this?



It does look/sound awesome
Now...anyone know where to find a pdf?
:douchewink:


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InvisibleMethadone
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: R2-D2]
    #17002220 - 10/10/12 12:38 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Good luck on the pdf, I had to special order my copy from the U.K.



-M


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
    #17003525 - 10/10/12 07:36 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Methadone said:
Yes, verified. Opuntia subulata monstrose. There was an image floating around awhile back of a Pereskiopsis grafted to this plant and the condition carried to the scion, the pereskiopsis was forming shoots from every areole present, almost like it had been sprayed with a cytoknin.




Yes I've seen those images and some others however that has been proven to only occur with cacti in the Opuntioideae subfamily; wouldn't be passed onto a lopho grafted onto the OSM

Pereskiopsis on Opuntia subulata monstrose



Here are some others that were performed with similar results...

Pterocactus tuberosus on Opuntia subulata monstrose


Normal Growth


Opuntia compressa on Opuntia subulata monstrose on opuntia pad


Here's the control set up for the above experiment


Here are the Two Sources
http://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9172&start=15
http://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8235


That PDF is impossible to find as no one has scanned their book and shared it online. Unless Methadone or another member that has this book would like to take it upon themselves to scan all the pages and make a PDF or pass the images to me and I would gladly make them a PDF.


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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17003991 - 10/10/12 10:44 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I've had my eye on a few books from http://www.cactusbookstore.com/index.html for the past couple months, haven't bit the bullet and got em yet.

modern all this info is great to read, keep it coming. Don't think I've ever seen a peres grafted on anything before lol


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InvisibleMethadone
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: turtle_hermit] * 1
    #17005319 - 10/10/12 03:28 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I have a San Pedro monster in my possession that displays similar characteristics of the Opuntia mycoplasma causling proliferous growth.. I haven't tested to see if its contagious, but it sure doesent seem to slow the growth of the plant too much.





-M


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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
    #17005415 - 10/10/12 03:51 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Very cool y'all, keep the info coming if ya get it!


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
    #17005616 - 10/10/12 04:29 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Methadone said:
I have a San Pedro monster in my possession that displays similar characteristics of the Opuntia mycoplasma causling proliferous growth.. I haven't tested to see if its contagious, but it sure doesent seem to slow the growth of the plant too much.





-M




Have you taken any cuttings or performed an areola graft to see if this trait continues?

That is extremely interesting cactus.


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InvisibleMethadone
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17007259 - 10/10/12 09:03 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

modern.shaman said:
Quote:

Methadone said:
I have a San Pedro monster in my possession that displays similar characteristics of the Opuntia mycoplasma causling proliferous growth.. I haven't tested to see if its contagious, but it sure doesent seem to slow the growth of the plant too much.






-M




Have you taken any cuttings or performed an areola graft to see if this trait continues?

That is extremely interesting cactus.






Yes and kind of. Cuttings of this specimen, even the columnar cuttings, revert back to this odd growth pattern. One cutting which was entirely columnar actually turned cristate at its growing tip which is unheard of in the trichocereus genus.


I granted a cristate piece of this cacti to T. pachanoi stock and it continues to grow in this monstrose/proliferous manner, but the stock is of course unchanged. I would have to graft again to the monstrose stock using a similar genus to see if the trait is 'contagious'.


Interesting plant in any case.


By the way, check my gallery for more pics and you might find useful info in my old posts. Also, +5 :mushroom2: for you for making this thread in the first place.


-M


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Creating a Cactus Chimera's- A Reason For Experimenting With Different Stocks [Re: Methadone]
    #17008570 - 10/10/12 11:56 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I found this interesting shopped/staged photograph of a Trichocereus Bridgesii Monstrose Flowering.

I am not saying THIS is a true flowering TBM however is it not possible for it to produce flowers since it has areolas? To my knowledge no one has had a TBM produce a flower.



Monstrose/Crested traits can be passed onto the seeds if using that plant as the father. This is seen often now with hybrid seeds of  T. peruvianus cristata and other cultivar cacti.

Now the thing that came to mind was wouldn't a Chimera also produce flowers since it contains areolas?(Not sure if the Ariocarpus retusus x Echinopsis eyriesii is flowering in the photo or pupping) IF this were the case would the traits or a 'true' chimera be produced in the seeds, assuming that the pollen is not sterile? This question may not be answered here as it has not happened to my awareness but perhaps a member might have more incite on this topic.

Methadone any ideas this matter?


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