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Offlinethealman
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Registered: 07/08/03
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Heat and dried mushrooms
    #1696592 - 07/08/03 04:19 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I know that excessive heat can reduce the potency of dried finished shrooms.
I was wondering if anyone knew approximately what temperature that begins to happen at? They will probably be in the heat for up to a week.

Thanks,
The Al Man


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Invisiblesoochi
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: thealman]
    #1696608 - 07/08/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

110F is my best guess.


--------------------
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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: soochi]
    #1696686 - 07/08/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It is 104f and higher!

mushrooms and myceluim are both living things they are all the same organism,so to speak mycelium are mushrooms.Mycelium/mushrooms dies at 104f and higher and that is what contains the psilocybin(what get you high) even when mushroom are picked they are still alive(for example when you do a spore print you cut the cap off the stem then put it on paper it will still drop spores hours & hours after even that it isn't joined to it's nutrient base) so if you over heat(104f and higher) them it will kill them in result loss of potency


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OfflineTantalus
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Registered: 06/05/03
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1697451 - 07/08/03 10:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybin_monkey said:
It is 104f and higher!

mushrooms and myceluim are both living things they are all the same organism,so to speak mycelium are mushrooms.Mycelium/mushrooms dies at 104f and higher and that is what contains the psilocybin(what get you high) even when mushroom are picked they are still alive(for example when you do a spore print you cut the cap off the stem then put it on paper it will still drop spores hours & hours after even that it isn't joined to it's nutrient base) so if you over heat(104f and higher) them it will kill them in result loss of potency




I really don't think your logic follows. Killing the mushroom and destroying the psilocybin are completely different things.

When you pick the mushroom, it's not killed instantly, but it does start to die. That doesn't mean the psilocybin starts to degrade. Think about this... every dried mushroom is defintely dead, no doubt about that. However, they still are potent. This wouldn't be the case if just killing the mushroom was enough to destroy the psilocybin.


--------------------
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Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed... The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people..."

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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Tantalus]
    #1698398 - 07/09/03 03:27 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Tantalus said:
Quote:

Psilocybin_monkey said:
It is 104f and higher!

mushrooms and myceluim are both living things they are all the same organism,so to speak mycelium are mushrooms.Mycelium/mushrooms dies at 104f and higher and that is what contains the psilocybin(what get you high) even when mushroom are picked they are still alive(for example when you do a spore print you cut the cap off the stem then put it on paper it will still drop spores hours & hours after even that it isn't joined to it's nutrient base) so if you over heat(104f and higher) them it will kill them in result loss of potency




I really don't think your logic follows. Killing the mushroom and destroying the psilocybin are completely different things.

When you pick the mushroom, it's not killed instantly, but it does start to die. That doesn't mean the psilocybin starts to degrade. Think about this... every dried mushroom is defintely dead, no doubt about that. However, they still are potent. This wouldn't be the case if just killing the mushroom was enough to destroy the psilocybin.




well here's how it goes mycelium/mushrooms die at 104f and higher and psilocybin is lost at 104f and higher wow what are the odds of that they are all hurt/killed at the exact same temp(it has been proven),now maybe you understood me a bit but when a mushroom is picked the psilocybin stil lives in the flesh of the mushroom and it lives in mycelium too so if you heat the mushroom(psilocybin) to 104f while it is still alive in the flesh yes it will be broken down that is a fact and once a mushroom is totaly dried out and if you heat it to 104f nothing will happen it's be noted that people smoke dried mushrooms and get high off the but they say you have to smoke a gram of it to get high and who wants to smoke a gram of something that taste bad
psilocybin is in the flesh of mushrooms/mycelium alike so yeah that is exactly what i'm saying.when they are drying the psilocybin is still in the flesh till all the water is gone then it is stable it is like dorment in the tisue.ok i'll have to expain it to you better i guess say you have a stick of meat that has(just an example) 350 cal of nutrients ok now you take that meat stick and fire in over a open flame for awhile chances are there will hardly be any nutrients left in it (heat killed/broke down) now you take the same size stick and dehydrate it you will have 300 cal nutrients (most) all the juices and nutrients are dried up not harming them!!!!!!!!

ok now heres the same thing with mushrooms 104f is the same to a mushroom as the fire to the meat stick

fresh mushroom has (just an example) 30 mirco grams of pislocybin ok now you put at 104f you will have say about 14 micro grams of pislocybin now you take the same size mushroom dry it you will get 25 micrograms... so there is a loss from when it was fresh to when it dry
thats is the it goes with everything that has water in it.

when anything is dry(no water in it) heat don't hurt as much(low heat not open fire or more) it so wile there is still water in the mushroom it still can get hurt by the heat!!!!! so if you have half dry mushroom it still can get hurt by heat and the tisue the has water is still living.there are teks out there to clone a dried mushroom by adding water to it.

so i hope you learned something new


--------------------
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Edited by Psilocybin_monkey (07/09/03 03:45 AM)


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698438 - 07/09/03 03:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

to note:
kramer had a problem in his incubation room and walked in on 112F
i'm not saying the mycelium core temp was 112f that was the room temp
out of cambo, pesa,and ks the ks came out like a champ the cambo we noticed no differance on and the pesa didn't fruit but wasn't dead
so you tell me mabye we should re-evaluate some of the laws of cubs
just a thought


says kramer


--------------------



     
Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: george castanza]
    #1698481 - 07/09/03 03:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

yeah there are strians out there that can take alot of heat i have strain that incubation temp is in the 90's and it loves it.it will spreade like wild fire i never tried to see how high a temp it can fruit at but i was fuiting it in the 80's with no trouble.and what i was saying in the post was just for genral psilocybes and not all strains.

that was a good point


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InvisibleATWAR
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Registered: 01/26/03
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698493 - 07/09/03 03:55 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have any references to this? I fail to see the connection between the temperature mycelium dies, and the temperature that psilocybin breaks down. I also fail to see the differences between the thermal breakdown temperatures of the psilocybin in a dry mushroom compared to a fresh one. While it seems logical that psilocybin will break down faster in a fresh shroom, it is not logical (to me) that the psilocybin lies dormant and stable in a dry shroom. It is still vulnerable to oxidation and thermal breakdown.


--------------------
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Offlinejimbu
jimbu
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Registered: 03/07/03
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698495 - 07/09/03 03:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

psilocybin monkey..... i don't wanna offend you, but you seem to be talking a load of codshit!

can you give us any references to where you got this 'knowledge' from?

as far as i am aware, the reason mushrooms lose potency due to heat is simply because heat is a catalyst to the oxidising reaction... anyone think this sounds logical?


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698496 - 07/09/03 03:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

ya i'm sure it was not kramers intention to let the room get that hot.
a heater just went haywire and low and behold he still got fruits



--------------------



     
Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: jimbu]
    #1698513 - 07/09/03 04:01 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

as far as i am aware, the reason mushrooms lose potency due to heat is simply because heat is a catalyst to the oxidising reaction... anyone think this sounds logical?




Exactly....


--------------------
To give is to live...



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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: ATWAR]
    #1698522 - 07/09/03 04:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ATWAR said:
Quote:

as far as i am aware, the reason mushrooms lose potency due to heat is simply because heat is a catalyst to the oxidising reaction... anyone think this sounds logical?




Exactly....



kramer's concurance


--------------------



     
Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: george castanza]
    #1698608 - 07/09/03 04:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

hmmmm i got it off a different forum and they were all saying the same as what i was telling you and there was alot of people that agree with what was said and it seemed to make sence to me for example

mushrooms/mycelium and psilocybin all die at the exact same temp 104f and higher and mushrooms don't die due the "catalyst to the oxidising reaction" if put at 104f so what you are saying don't make any sence to me not to say that you are wrong i'm just going with what alot more people agree with on a diff forum and what makes the most sence to me and i do know that PSILOCIN ("catalyst to the oxidising reaction") breaks down to air and is very unstable i read that in books but that is NOT "psilocybin"so maybe you got your names crossed psilocybin is VERY stabe more so then PSILOCIN

here is a QUOTE from a webpage:

Chemistry
The primary active ingredients of Psilocybe mushrooms are (surprise!) psilocybin and psilocin, and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin. The ratio of psilocybin to psilocin varies from species to species. The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down when the mushroom is dried, while psilocybin lasts much longer (a 115-year old mushroom sample was found to contain some). The two are equally psychoactive, since one molecule of psilocybin breaks down into one molecule of psilocin. But in terms of weight, we find that:

molecular weight of psilocybin 284.3
------------------------------ = ----- = 1.391
molecular weight of psilocin 204.3

So by weight psilocin is around 1.4 times more potent. The formula for calculating total potency, ignoring [nor]baeocystin, is thus:

(psilocybin) + (1.4 * psilocin) = total potency in 'psilocybin units'

Now, here's the structural diagram for psilocybin:


N
/ \ PSILOCYBIN
/ \
______/ \ C H N O P
/ / \ \ || 12 17 2 4
/ / \ \ ||
/ / \ \ || 4-OPO -DMT
\/ \/___|| C C 4
\________/ \ / \ /
\______/ \ / \ / 4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
\ \ / \ /
\ C N 1H-Indol-4-ol, 3-[2-(dimethylamino)-
\ (+) | ethyl] dihydrogen phosphate ester
O |
| C CAS #: 520-52-5
____| (-)
O____P____O DEA #: 7437
|
|
O

In the body, the phosphorus part is chopped off ("dephosphorylated") by the enzyme alkaline phosphatase, turning it into our other friend:


N PSILOCIN
/ \
/ \ C H N O
______/ \ 12 16 2
/ / \ \ ||
/ / \ \ || 4-OH-DMT
/ / \ \ ||
\/ \/___|| C C 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
\________/ \ / \ /
\______/ \ / \ / 1H-Indol-4-ol, 3-[2-(dimethylamino)
\ \ / \ / ethyl]
\ C N
\ | CAS #: 520-53-6
O |
C DEA #: 7438

Psilocybin and psilocin are part of the tryptamine family (indole C8H7N & ethylamine side chain). They bear close resemblance to the neurotransmitter serotonin. How these substances work is, I have come to believe, still quite obscure. Primary effect seems to be the inhibition of neurotransmitter serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine aka 5-HT), i.e. a 5-HT2A post-synaptic agonist that mimics the effects to 5-HT to put it in jargon. This is the working hypothesis for LSD-25 at the moment and it's probably true for psilocybin as well. These substances also present some cross-tolerance.

As a good psychedelic should, psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of psilocybin/kg of body (in average human terms (65 kg) 13 grams) have been injected intravenously without lethal effects. The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. Poisoning, at least physically, is thus not a problem.

Then we have the two other significant indole alkaloids:


--------------------
Welcome to my world!



Edited by Psilocybin_monkey (07/09/03 04:30 AM)


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698641 - 07/09/03 04:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Chemistry
The primary active ingredients of Psilocybe mushrooms are (surprise!) psilocybin and psilocin, and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin. The ratio of psilocybin to psilocin varies from species to species. The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down when the mushroom is dried, while psilocybin lasts much longer (a 115-year old mushroom sample was found to contain some).

if i read it right it says psilocin breaks down to air (catalyst to the oxidising reaction) and not psilocybin

so don't come at me with that dog crap!!

why do mushrooms die at 104f?(catalyst to the oxidising reaction?)
when you pick a mushroom it is still alive so it can still be killed by 104f temps when drying


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OfflineSev
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698655 - 07/09/03 04:40 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry, but WTF does this have to do with the temperature at which psylocybin denatures/decomposes?

It's quite obvious that your idea about psylocybin breaking down at 104* F is wrong, since people make teas with temps in the 200s with it all the time, and note only a minimal loss of potency, which could be due to breakdown of the residual (and much less stable) psilocin.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698666 - 07/09/03 04:43 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushrooms/mycelium and psilocybin all die at the exact same temp 104f and higher and mushrooms don't die due the "catalyst to the oxidising reaction"




I think you have things a little confused. Psilocybin breakdown has nothing to do with the mushroom or the mycelium dying. Just because the thermal death temperature of the fungi is 104F, does not mean that this is what temperatures psilocybin and psilocin breakdown.

I would also have to add that your little chemistry cut-n-paste has nothing to do with this discussion. While it is known that one compound is more stable than the other, and one is broken down into the other, it does nothing to prove the information you provided in the earlier post.


--------------------
To give is to live...



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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: ATWAR]
    #1698680 - 07/09/03 04:49 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

kramer is riding with ATWAR on this one


--------------------



     
Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Sev]
    #1698684 - 07/09/03 04:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

when it is dry it is still stable like i said "people have been known to smoke it" and why is it stable because there is no living tisue all the mositure is gone out of it like i said from the get go if you read!!!

my point is that psilocybin is like the blood of a mushroom/mycelium it is always there in it and when the mushrooms is killed from too much heat it also kills the psilocybin too and when it is dry the temp can't hurt it because the mushroom is not alive.they all die at the same temp and you can't argue that so go figure!!!!

my point right from the start is that if you kill the mushroom/mycelium you kill the psilocybin.the cells of the mushroom brake down and die at 104f and psilcyobin is one of them last time i check!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when there is water in the tisuse it is living and when there is no water it is not living.

water means aliving and can get hurt and die by 104f

no water means that it is dead and can't get hurt any more by 104f


--------------------
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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1698700 - 07/09/03 04:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

make some tea with some fresh shrooms(better use a lot!) and then come back and tell us you didn't get off


--------------------



     
Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: Heat and dried mushrooms [Re: Sev]
    #1698762 - 07/09/03 05:21 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sev said:
Sorry, but WTF does this have to do with the temperature at which psylocybin denatures/decomposes?

It's quite obvious that your idea about psylocybin breaking down at 104* F is wrong, since people make teas with temps in the 200s with it all the time, and note only a minimal loss of potency, which could be due to breakdown of the residual (and much less stable) psilocin.




"Sorry, but WTF does this have to do with the temperature at which psylocybin denatures/decomposes?" you say?simple i will tell you The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down when the mushroom is dried, while psilocybin lasts much longer (a 115-year old mushroom sample was found to contain some).what this mean is that psilocin breaks down to catalyst to the oxidising reaction.oxidising means something that is broken down by air and as you can read psilocybin don't brake don't to air.so what now?


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