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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707924 - 07/12/03 06:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

He didn?t seal it all all.

"...the level of bluing is the best indicator we have to determine potency in Psilocybe cubensis."

Great.
Does this sentence have any value, if you look at it from a scientific point of view?
None.
Bluing is (at best) an indicator of the level of psilocin in a mushroom. And nothing more.

Following a similar logic bluemeanie did I could say "millet grown mushrooms have more psilocin and less psilocybin."

Now prove the opposite.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1707925 - 07/12/03 06:18 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Your above statement relating to the bluing reaction not being a valuable guide for determining potency in cubensis using the example of semilanceata is interesting. The fact that Semilanceata does not always stain blue, yet has high levels of psilocybin and baeocystin indicates that Stamets and Gartz suggestion that the bluing reaction is indicative of the oxidisation of psilocin more probable. Since studies by Gartz, Bigwood and Beug and Stivje and De Meijer only found significant differences in the content of psilocin and not the more stable psilocybin in their studies of various cubensis, your own statement provides argument that the bluing reaction is the best guage we have to measure the potency of cubensis. Ten points to me:)




this is a fascinating thread, keep it up guys. i can imagine you sitting over a beer together batting it back and forth. i have great respect for you both. :thumbup:

i don't pretend to have the experience to join in, but i see flaws in this paragraph's dialectic, so i'm gonna have a go anyway, just for fun.  the bluing reaction is the best guage we have may be true, but is obsolete once you have agreed that potency is dependent also on psilocybin and other alkaloids.

although this is a side issue to the millet / brf > 'potency' debate, it takes centre stage if the possibility exists that brf favours psilocybin (no bluing) while millet favours psilocyn (bluing) production. maybe i missed this being discussed earlier.

what do you guys think? :confused:

(shirley loves a good debate. let's all have a mass debate together  :laugh:  :blush:)
           


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1707935 - 07/12/03 06:35 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

All I need is the qualitative feed back that millet grown slays the BRF and that's it. I know it is. And in all fairness, the bluing issue has been said all along to be a guide or an indicator. It appears you're out to make a dogma on what you haven't proven.

Going by observations, this applies too Anno on how Bio-Mix nutes shoots to shit Dutch Magic and Budswell on more productive mull and for that matter CANNA and GH nutes. Scales and feedback talks. I only go for results. $pin it how you want, this ain't religion. It's based on what people observe.

But if you want to get all scientific, do have access to chromatography or the indepth papers to validate your claims? Or is it all hot air and ego at stake? umm.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: shirley knott]
    #1707936 - 07/12/03 06:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Now this would all be great if one was to just consider psilocin only in terms of potency. But when you throw the others in the mix there is no real indicators. How is it not possible for brown rice grown mushrooms to produce more psilocybin and less psilocin? The bluing reaction guess test would be moot.

I am not jumping into the BRF/WBS debate. I have eaten mushies that blued very dark and tripped. I have eaten mushies that did not blue very much at all and tripped just as well. Judging from there is more than one alkaloid present and only one causes the bluing, then it is in no way an accurate indicator of true potency. If one is only looking at psilocin, then yes, it would be a good indicator.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1707939 - 07/12/03 06:41 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

i agree with you. potency is hard, if not impossible to measure.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707942 - 07/12/03 06:42 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Going by observations, this applies too Anno on how Bio-Mix nutes shoots to shit Dutch Magic and Budswell on more productive mull and for that matter CANNA and GH nutes. Scales and feedback talks. I only go for results. $pin it how you want, this ain't religion. It's based on what people observe




:wtf:



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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1707944 - 07/12/03 06:55 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
although this is a side issue to the millet / brf > 'potency' debate, it takes centre stage if the possibility exists that brf favours psilocybin (no bluing) while millet favours psilocyn (bluing) production. maybe i missed this being discussed earlier.             




I can't see how. Reading tryptophans are the precursor to tryptamines http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/tryptophan.html and they're the precursor of psilocybin and psilocin, then why else is there a FAQ on beefing up the magic with banging in tryptamine...umm. LMAO. Was PF going that path because BRF was lacking all along LOL.

So here's a couple of links that prove that BRF is lower in tryptophan compared to millet. Compare the two.

http://www.doggieconnection.com/recipe/info/rice_flour_brown.html

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/crops/a805w.htm

In my findings dry millet shrooms pack a better punch than dry BRF so therefore there's psilocybin (more of it) in the finish.

Anno, you're yet to disprove that. You have offered no visual materials and no sources and then claimed BM's statements as whackery, despite their basis on mycologist findings. Funny that.

I'm thinking this whole thread has entered the political arena, where it puts the PF tek into disrepute because that tek is the very plinth that pimped his sales (so there's more at $take LMAO). Not to mention it defiles a spore deity with furious anger to the blasphemers LOL.

This is no different to the Canna-forum threads that pull the wings off Dr Watson, Rosethal and Cervantez. The three Canna-gods. The howls of indignation. Seen this shit before. Too funny. :laugh:
   


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707945 - 07/12/03 06:57 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ATWAR, my point is simple to understand. You use what works that gives the results. Be that hydro or shrooms. There's no debate in that.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707951 - 07/12/03 07:09 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bio-Mix nutes shoots to shit Dutch Magic and Budswell on more productive mull and for that matter CANNA and GH nutes




Please ellaborate on this and how it pertains to the discussion of BRF vs. Millet? That whole sentance was just jibberish to me...

I understand that you use what works best. Unless you dont strive to get the best possible...


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707963 - 07/12/03 07:18 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


http://www.doggieconnection.com/recipe/info/rice_flour_brown.html

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/crops/a805w.htm



very interesting. so 100g of brf contains 0.09g tryptophan, whereas 100g of millet contains 0.17g of tryptophan?

wha happens when you add in the weights of brf/millet used per unit volume spawn? i'm guessing that a litre jar of millet contains more tryptophan precursor than 4 half-pint jars of brf/verm (equivalent volume).

but then you stick this into other nutrients, like poo or straw, or bran. so doesn't the original amino acid precursor levels in the spawn become irrelevant again? or has this set in motion the mycelium's inherent metabolic rate, or whatever? are we back in the realms of DNA again - remember,

Quote:

  Ainasko said
i fuck corpses and then feast on their marrow, as DNA source for my typtophan experiments




(sorry to steal Ainasko's gag, i loved it :kiss:)   


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: shirley knott]
    #1707973 - 07/12/03 07:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ATWAR, it pertains to the BRF v's Millet discussion by going with what works best.

I see growing, be it shrooms or hydro, in a similar manner. One tries to get the most out of what they're doing in their area given and achieve the best possible product. They don't grow with methods that are less satisfying in outcome to be politically polite to those that stand to gain the most peddling what doesn't work best. It's as simple as that. Call that my philosophy on illegal growing if you will.

BTW, Bio-Mix is an organic acid based hydro chelate, it increases cell differentiation. Mull is Aussie slang for pot. Lord knows I have to wade through no end of American jargon left and right, then face ethnocentric ignorance to my everyday language in TCP/IP a.k.a "gibberish" eh.

Sort of reminds me of this thread.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=1653255


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707980 - 07/12/03 07:46 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Excuse me if I stepped on your toes there. So sorry to misunderstand. But, I would like to know how there was anything related to the ethnic differences between our countries in ANYTHING I posted besides a simple difference in slang. I think you should take your problems with our cultural differences to another forum.

If "Bio-Mix nutes shoots to shit Dutch Magic and Budswell on more productive mull and for that matter CANNA and GH nutes" is your everyday language, then no wonder you see others having trouble understanding you as ignorance.

I also fail to see the comparison to the soup post except you stated that Americans have more processed food. Where is the ignorance? For the record, we have soup packets like that here, bags of pre-mixed soup ready to cook...


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InvisibleAinasko
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707984 - 07/12/03 07:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What I think is more doubtful is that you really are a student of biology.



I do enjoy a good debate, but some cannot maintain their senses long enough to prevent themselves from arguing.

Since you doubt my very existance, debating this issue with you further is pointless.

Everyone "knows" they are right anyway.

No worries on my end. Take care.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1707985 - 07/12/03 07:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ATWAR, if you were in Oz and you said that in a hydro shop, it would be perfectly understood. Of course they'd argue that X, Y & Z is better (since they coin out of it i.e. they make their own mixes to flog).

As for the thread given, if you look at it, it was a clear case of regional misundertanding vis Oz/America because of terminology and cultural difference. That's clear as day.

It appears it's you, more than me who has his spines up. Don't project.

Now care to add to this threads discussion or hijack it for yourself?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1707986 - 07/12/03 08:00 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

>Or is it all hot air and ego at stake?

You disqualify yourself as someone who can be taken seriously with comments like this.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1707991 - 07/12/03 08:07 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

C'mon Anno, looking for an alibi to conveniently slip is disingenuous.

Or are you really that thin skinned?


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InvisibleAinasko
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1708001 - 07/12/03 08:26 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

It's possible that everyone is right with this debate. So much of cultivation is based on personal preferences.

Through polite debate, we hopefully learn. Through argument and personal attacks, we learn nothing of cultivation, but everything of our character.

Everyone, take care and stay safe. Enjoy your weekend.



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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1708003 - 07/12/03 08:31 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I am sorry but I cannot let this ride out like this. Because I misunderstood a sentence and asked you to clarify it, I get accused of "ethnocentric ignorance".

And the thread given was a misunderstanding of the type of soup that was being considered as a substrate. It was not due to regional differences. What was clear as day was that canned soup was considered because the person never stated what type of soup. It was you that brought the regional differences into the mix.

And personal attacks on experienced shroomery members will not get you very far...


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1708021 - 07/12/03 09:00 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

>C'mon Anno, looking for an alibi to conveniently slip is disingenuous.

Joker.

Would you please read the last paragraph of this page ?



This is from document:
http://jeremybigwood.net/JBsPUBS/Beug&Bigwood/index.htm mentioned above by bluemeanie, btw.

"Recreational users of hallucinogenic mushrooms sometimes regard the intensity of bluing as a guide to psilocybin and psilocin levels, but we could find no correlation between degree of bluing and either psilocybin or psilocin levels."

mmmmkay?


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InvisibleAinasko
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Re: BRF(brown rice flour), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1708039 - 07/12/03 09:48 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)



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