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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1705447 - 07/11/03 11:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Anno...

>>>And, I hope that you are aware that bluing alone doesn?t give a measure about the potency of a mushroom.

As I said in my 1st post in this thread....

Quote:


If the level of staining in fruits as they dry is a guide of potency (not saying it is nor do I want to involve myself in that old debate) well millet grown leaves BRF shrooms for dead.





The definite darker colour aside, my observations -- including mates local who have eaten the millet grown -- it's more potent than BRF.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1705539 - 07/11/03 12:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

>If the level of staining in fruits as they dry is a guide of potency

Well, it is not.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1706130 - 07/11/03 03:56 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I said guide in the context of a "maybe" and not in the context of a "definitive measure" nor did I wish to be roped into such a debate. Don't crop quotes to put words in my mouth.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1706144 - 07/11/03 04:03 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

but if it's not then it can not be a maybe ????


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InvisibleAinasko
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Starter]
    #1706180 - 07/11/03 04:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Starter said:
Don't crop quotes to put words in my mouth and I hate black people and Jews.




Just kidding.


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Offlinekukusz
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Ainasko]
    #1706226 - 07/11/03 04:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ROFL!!  :grin:


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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: kukusz]
    #1706342 - 07/11/03 05:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I put it forward that millet shrooms are darker than BRF and I know millet shrooms are stronger...so make of that as you want.

BTW, that was some funny shit Ainasko


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OfflinePeregrin_Took
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: kukusz]
    #1706362 - 07/11/03 05:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

/|\ /|\
LMAO!!! | thats some funny stuff |

someone above said "what more do you need{to prove millet is better)"

How about a PF style tek with millet adapted? I actualy have access to quite a bit of millet (a few relatives breed exotic birds, and buy millet in bulk), If it could be used in cakes I might consider it, but I think my hamster needs to get a harvest or two under his little hamster sized belt before he tries to get all complicated.

whatchya think?
Pip


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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Ainasko]
    #1706726 - 07/11/03 07:48 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:smile: :laugh: :grin: :grin: :shocked: :crazy: :blush: :ooo: :smile: :tongue: :grin: :thumbup: :heartpump: 


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1706906 - 07/11/03 09:10 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BRF IS THE CRAPPEST SUBSTRATE!! IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME GROW CUBIES ON MILLET AND GET BACK TO ME!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My question still remains then, is the potency from brf THAT bad??





No. Especially if your still getting the hang of it.

BM- you seem to have some sort of beef with both the PF tek and the PF strain (as indicated in one of my threads). my sister knows several people who have been humbled by the mighty PF fat-ass mushroom, grown ala PF tek. they came back asking for more of those "weird ass puffy shrooms".

-BF


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1706934 - 07/11/03 09:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

When i started out i grew the same isolate of tasmanians on brf, manure bulk, millet, and rye grain and the millet babies dried blew all our heads off at half the dose of BRF tassies.






each strain and isolate will react differently to a given substrate/environment. i respect your experience and the conclutions of your test subjects, however a single experiment such as you've described is insufficient to make generalizations.

-BF


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1707441 - 07/12/03 01:19 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Anno when did you say it may not always be the case? I cant see that anywhere in the thread - so when you say 'as i said', well you didnt.
Maybe your millet in Europe is crap - just as plausible a reason as BRF being eaten by bugs in Australia. It was Uma Guma, Major Millet, Club99 and Dimitri who suggested i try millet because of its higher potency and yield. Fortyounces, Roadkill, workman and quite a few others i could list could probably agree that it is the better substrate in terms of yields and potency.
Una from Mushmush told me that he didnt notice a difference between it and rye grain, so maybe it is your european millet.
Another point is that when you are talking about filling 250ml jars with either a 50/50 mixture of brown rice flour and vermiculite or a full jar of millet you have twice the amount of actual substrate. Althought I would contend that even straight brown rice alone in a jar would produce mushrooms that are less potent than the same jar of millet.
Anno I am unsure why you couldnt notice the difference, but then again we've argued about similar issues before.
Your above statement relating to the bluing reaction not being a valuable guide for determining potency in cubensis using the example of semilanceata is interesting. The fact that Semilanceata does not always stain blue, yet has high levels of psilocybin and baeocystin indicates that Stamets and Gartz suggestion that the bluing reaction is indicative of the oxidisation of psilocin more probable. Since studies by Gartz, Bigwood and Beug and Stivje and De Meijer only found significant differences in the content of psilocin and not the more stable psilocybin in their studies of various cubensis, your own statement provides argument that the bluing reaction is the best guage we have to measure the potency of cubensis. Ten points to me:)
Finally:
'Take two dry grams of cubensis grown with BRF and two grams of dry cubensis grown on millet and it is doubtful one would notice a difference in potency. The difference noted would, likely, be in yield, but let's not argue again. '
Why is it doubtful? Have you tried it? If you havent how can you make that statement? I appreciate your input, but why make these kinds of statements if you havent tried it? Like Ive said, it is proven in a study that substrate does effect the potency of cubensis. If you can show me a reference for a study that indicates otherwise? What I think is more doubtful is that you really are a student of biology. :smile:



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1707470 - 07/12/03 01:29 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Firstly since the mushroom that was grown on each of those substrates was a clone (the same isolate) I think that is indicitive enough. Secondly i didnt feel the need to make further studies, because at the time most of those I was was talking about it with (Dimitri, Hongus, Major Millet, Uma Guma, and others ive listed above) agreed - it was commonly accepted.
No, I dont have any 'beef' with PF - because ive made factual statements that disagree with what you might read on Pf's site, this does not mean i have any petty personal issues with that vendor. It annoys me greatly that because YOU dont agree with what Im saying, that you would reduce it to some 'beef'. Like Ive said, if you took the time to grow your favourite cubensis (which sounds like PF - and if you've grown many cubensis you would realise that the genetics of that strain are redudant - PF himself even admited it) on millet or brf you would agree.

The bluing reaction is indicative on the levels of psilocin (Stamets, Gartz and Buchanan) and as this is the principle alkaloid that varies in cubensis (Gartz, Bigwood and Beug, Stivje and DeMeijer) the level of bluing is the best indicator we have to determine potency in Psilocybe cubensis. It does not however hold true for other alkaloid baring mushrooms.


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Edited by Zen Peddler (07/12/03 01:33 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1707509 - 07/12/03 01:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

>Anno when did you say it may not always be the case? I cant see that
>anywhere in the thread - so when you say 'as i said', well you didnt.

bm, please reade the thread, take your time, you?ll find it.

>Una from Mushmush told me that he didnt notice a difference between
>it and rye grain, so maybe it is your european millet.

Club99 lives in Europe too.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1707540 - 07/12/03 01:48 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Does he? I thought he was Mexican? Or did he used to be? Hey did you notice any signficant differences in potency between cyanescens, azurescens and arcana?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1707553 - 07/12/03 01:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

He lived in Mexico for a couple of years.

I never had P. cyanescens, P. arcana(Graz) appeared a bit more potent than P. azurescens, but I wouldn?t bet my head on it.


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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Anno]
    #1707557 - 07/12/03 01:55 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ah right.
Thanks for the feedback. I didnt notice much difference between subaeruginosa and cyanescens - too early to say with azurescens, but great clone all the same mate.


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1707777 - 07/12/03 03:39 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

someone above said "what more do you need{to prove millet is better)"

How about a PF style tek with millet adapted? I actualy have access to quite a bit of millet (a few relatives breed exotic birds, and buy millet in bulk), If it could be used in cakes I might consider it, but I think my hamster needs to get a harvest or two under his little hamster sized belt before he tries to get all complicated.

whatchya think?
Pip





this is the question that makes all this bickering pointless.  if you are growing cakes and you want dependable results, use the PF tek as is.  its virtually foolproof and will provide sufficiently potent fruits.  you can experiment with different substrate formulations once you've gotten the hang of things.

i hope you've managed to find some answers  :wink:

-BF


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1707785 - 07/12/03 03:48 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

No, I dont have any 'beef' with PF - because ive made factual statements that disagree with what you might read on Pf's site, this does not mean i have any petty personal issues with that vendor. It annoys me greatly that because YOU dont agree with what Im saying, that you would reduce it to some 'beef'




it's not my intention to "annoy you greatly".  Nor did i mean to imply that you had any personal issues with the vendor.  perhaps "beef" wasn't the right word.  i simply meant that you seem biased, that's all.

Quote:

Like Ive said, if you took the time to grow your favourite cubensis (which sounds like PF - and if you've grown many cubensis you would realise that the genetics of that strain are redudant - PF himself even admited it) on millet or brf you would agree.





my birdie has grown many strains on many substrates, from brf to bulk.  indeed, the PF strain is a little bit twacked in the DNA.  i never said otherwise.  in fact, that's one of the most interesting aspects of the strain, IMO.  maybe i'm biased (i have a mentally handicapped, genetically imperfect brother who gives me great joy and inspiration.)  is PF my favorite strain?  its qualities put it towards the top of my list, but there are still plenty strains to be tried.

don't take this the wrong way, but i noticed you mentioned in an earlier post that you are "to lazy for manners."  from my point of veiw it takes a lot less energy to maintain an agreeable point of veiw than a confrontational one.  had you been more flexible, less absolute in your opinion you could have saved yourself a few posts, i think.  we all have different experience and as irksome as it can be, whats true for one isn't always true for another.  there's just too many factors at play.  I, for one, am too lazy to be contrary  :tongue:

:sun:PEACE, LOVE, and, RESPECT to all here :sun:-
BF 


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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1707912 - 07/12/03 05:55 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Looks like BM has sealed it.

Quote:

bluemeanie said:
The bluing reaction is indicative on the levels of psilocin (Stamets, Gartz and Buchanan) and as this is the principle alkaloid that varies in cubensis (Gartz, Bigwood and Beug, Stivje and DeMeijer) the level of bluing is the best indicator we have to determine potency in Psilocybe cubensis. It does not however hold true for other alkaloid baring mushrooms. 






"...the level of bluing is the best indicator we have to determine potency in Psilocybe cubensis." I like that. :smile:

Pictures speak where words won't, millet grown Golden Teacher and dry. Some of it is almost black!! I know for a fact it's better -- more potent -- than BRF. None of the BRF I've grown has come close in such deep dark colour or trip grunt. Funny how the deeper colour and routinely too coincides to millet grown and so too does the potency. Aren't facts based on the analysis of observations? Dogma is seldom science. 


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