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OfflinePeregrin_Took
Fool of A Took

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 20
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time?
    #1694393 - 07/07/03 10:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ok I keep reading through everything over and over trying to avoid asking this question, but what I seem to keep hearing is that fruits grown on brf lack in potency?

I would rather my pet hamster grow something above average as opposed to mediocre-below average.

I guess im just trippin because I hear about people eating a bunch and not get much of an effect, and it seems some attribute this to growing on brf.

I am a fairly big guy and I just dont wanna have to eat half my harvest to get the experience I am looking for.

It would be greatly appreciated if someone could clear this up for me, and also if an alternate substrate, such as Ryche Hawks birdseed mix, would work for PF style cakes?

Thanks shroomers!
Pip


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Offlinelemunhed
The hustler'shustler

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 775
Loc: Ur moms house
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1694400 - 07/07/03 10:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the biggest problem with cakes is that they colonize slow and don't produce as much. If you are totally new you should do some cakes, but while your waiting for them to colonize experiment with WBS, Rye, and popcorn. See which you like more, if you make a big incubator you can fit it all in there. That way it doesn't matter if you fuck up your grains because you'll still have the cakes colonizing, plus you'll be getting alot of experience in not alot of time.
To more directly answer your question, you will have to eat probably the whole first flush of a PF cake to get off at all, if you want to trip hard then you'll have to eat 1.5 times the first flush. That's assuming that the first flush is roughly 1/8oz. per cake which is a good first time grow estimate. And no don't use birdseed mix for cake fruiting, it doesn't work well at all. I have tried it and i couldn't even get the fucking thing to pin, not enough water retention.


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You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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OfflinePeregrin_Took
Fool of A Took

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 20
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: lemunhed]
    #1694476 - 07/07/03 10:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

So you dont think there is much of a potency loss from using brf?
What you said sounds about like what I am used to, 1/8 of commercial shrooms usualy gave me a nice experience, you did mean 1/8 dried right?

This is actually gonna be my second attempt, but the first was kinda halfassed when I first found the shroomery, so I would rather use brf just cause thats what I used before and I kinda got a feel for it.

I just dont wanna spend alot of time growing something that will be low quality at best.

Thanks alot for your help man
Pip


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
Farmicist

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 544
Loc: lounging betwixt lobes...
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1694525 - 07/07/03 11:07 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

according to a hampster i once met, pf strain (especially fat asses) grown on brf cakes are some of the most potent cubies you can grow.

lemunhed- forgive my ignorance, but what is WBS?


--------------------
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhisvah

Formula: 0


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InvisibleAinasko
Oksania
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 694
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1694554 - 07/07/03 11:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The substrate used, for cubensis, has nothing to do with potency. That was decided by genetics.

The substrate used relates directly to yield.



--------------------
Ainasko is my name backwards. I'm a girl!


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1694559 - 07/07/03 11:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wild Bird Seed

I'm at about the same spot Peregrin. 17 days in and 5 pftek jars are completely colonized. gonna cold shock tomorrow and put into a poorman's pod on wed. I like the BRF cakes since you don't need a pressure cooker. Just one less thing to go buy. And since I'm not casing the cakes I don't need whole grain.

A question for whoever .. Can you birth whole grain directly or does it need to be cased?


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Ainasko]
    #1694721 - 07/08/03 12:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ainasko said:
The substrate used,  for cubensis,  has nothing to do with potency.  That was decided by genetics. 

The substrate used relates directly to yield. 





Actually, that's not -quite- true.  If a substrate was lacking in certain nutrients, the shrooms might not produce as much psylocin/psilocybin.  That needs Phosphorus, right?  So, you might get slightly weaker crops off of certain substrates ... but I don't really think that this would be all that significant, since most things contain a good amount of P, IIRC.

Anyway.  :smile: 


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
Shroomer

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 1,340
Loc: Dragon's Den
Last seen: 6 years, 5 days
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Sev]
    #1694752 - 07/08/03 12:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

pf tek
pros:cheaper,if you get contams you don't have to trash whole batch just the one cake,less chance of contams (less steps),don't smell room up with poo ect..

cons:less shrooms,sometimes smaller shrooms and aborts,needs higher humidity,less flushes ect..


--------------------
Welcome to my world!



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OfflinePeregrin_Took
Fool of A Took

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 20
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Sev]
    #1694783 - 07/08/03 12:25 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

OK You guys are the shit!!

Things will proceed as planned, Im really happy to have this cleared up.

I also have to commemerate the Shroomery, I havent been to this site since before it was shoomery.org(I think it was just a sub-domain at the time), and in the 2 days that I have been back, I have had every question/post answered! intelligently and respectfully too!

Thanks shroomery!!!!
Pippin


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InvisibleMycoCakeEater
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 1,572
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1694906 - 07/08/03 12:57 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

BRF is ot awaste of time at all. But I do like WBS. Colinizes way faster.


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InvisibleMagashM
Da Bud Guru
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Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 5,875
Loc: Near Hilo
Trusted Cultivator
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1695208 - 07/08/03 02:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Maby some will think this was a waste of time maby some won't

Grow Log
Tek : PF
Strain : South American [SA]
Spores : Came from homemade prints. 36 total jars to be injected.
Substrate :Brown Rice Flour [BRF] and Vermiculite [Verm]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10:15 PM 3/4/03 : Project is started. Jar prep is just putting small holes in the lids for the spore syringe and then taping them closed until inoculation. Tape used is the standard black electrical tape. First batch of jars is mixed. The mix used is 2 parts verm, 1 part water, and 1 part brf. [ This mix is the max fruiting formula by PF.] Mix is put into 1/2 pint canning jars lightly, not packed in, and left it airy. Put substrate in until it reaches the threads of the jar, then add dry verm the rest of the way.
Jars are PCd at 10psi or 240f for a period of 45 minutes. Then jars were left to sit overnight to cool.


8:39 PM 3/5/2003 : First batch of jars injected. (24 jars)

10:04 AM 3/6/2003 : Incubator is running to low 77F. Going to turn it up today.


5:45 PM 3/6/2003 : Second batch of jars is in the PC will be injected tomorrow. Turned up incubator runs at 83F. 86F is the best and if the incubator is 83F and myc growing in the jars is suppose to create a little heat I figure this should work out well.

1:11 PM 3/7/2003 : Second batch of jars is done. (12 jars)

12:10 PM 3/9/2003 : Jars are doing good, no signs of contams


2:54 AM 3/19/2003 : Tape removed from the holes today and coffee filters put over the top of the jars for added protection. Holes were opened so the CO2 in the jars could escape. I gave 12 jars to a friend who kept fucking up. 24 jar?s about 75%done.


12:13 PM 3/22/2003 : Well it's Saturday and the jars will probably be done by the 25th. So it was 36 jars. 12 were given to a friend, 24 done by Tuesday.

10:26 PM 3/23/2003 : 15 jars were done enough to put into dunk. I dunk and cold shock before birthing and after every flush. The other 9 jars have a spot the size of a pea that has to be covered so I'll do those on the 25th.


7:17 PM 3/24/2003 : 15 jars put into the pod. Put in and put a layer of moist verm on top. With geolite I just put the cakes on it. With some other chambers I put the cake on a lid filled with verm. This is done to give the shrooms on the bottom and the top of the cake some added moisture.
The other 9 jars just finished so I'm going to give them a couple more days to make sure the middle of the cake is done.


4:57 PM 3/27/2003 : 5 More cakes birthed today, 4 left going to do them tomorrow or 3/29/2003

3:58 PM 3/29/2003 : Well I lost another cake. My wife's little 1 cake pod made from a 2 liter and a small fish pump and a little geolite used up her last cake so I gave her a SA to grow. The last 3 are in the cold shock dunk.
So the total is 36 jars done all colonized with no contams. 12 given to a friend, 1 to the wife, 23 mine

12:08 PM 3/30/2003 : Last of jars put in

12:02 PM 3/31/2003 : The first 15 cakes are pinning nicely and some have shrooms coming from the bottom.


11:01 AM 4/3/2003 : Things look to be going well.


1:02 AM 4/4/2003 : Took the first flush from four of the cakes. More will be done later today.


5/8/2003 : Total 23 cakes 164 grams dried.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleAinasko
Oksania
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 694
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Sev]
    #1696021 - 07/08/03 11:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sev said:
Actually, that's not -quite- true.  If a substrate was lacking in certain nutrients, the shrooms might not produce as much psylocin/psilocybin.  That needs Phosphorus, right?  So, you might get slightly weaker crops off of certain substrates ... but I don't really think that this would be all that significant, since most things contain a good amount of P, IIRC.

Anyway.  :smile:   




Actually,  it is true.  The genetic make-up is stored in the spore. This genetic make-up is commonly known as DNA. The potential of every living creature is decided before birth.

This is not to say that each and every identical spore from the same print will have the same potency. There are many environmental factors involved.

Give the same spores to two people and you'll likely get different results in potency, yield, color, texture, flavor and any other variable. The DNA will still be identical meaning that each had the same opportunities as the other.

Give the same spores to a new and experienced cultivator, and undoubtedly, those cultivated by the experienced will have the greater potency, but never beyond its genetic potential.

When given the optimum conditions, one can bring a fruit to its peak conditions, but we cannnot aid it further than its pre-programmed DNA has already designed.

In other words, if a cubensis spores maximum potential is a ten, we cannot get a twelve because of the limitations of the cubensis, not the limitations of the cultivator.

This is not opinion. This is science in the field of genetics.


--------------------
Ainasko is my name backwards. I'm a girl!


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Invisiblesoochi
Chef
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Peregrin_Took]
    #1696031 - 07/08/03 11:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

No, i still grow cakes but only to spawn. Cakes are pretty much fool proof (maybe i shouldn't say that) but they are pretty much maintainance free after innoculation. Want potent fruits?? Go Bulk.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!


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Offlinesalazare
fan_of_shrooms
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 185
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: soochi]
    #1696888 - 07/08/03 05:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

hi,
A foaf foaf has a question:
in comparison with simple pf cakes and bulk how potent should be an outdoor patch made with moes teck' mushrooms?


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Invisiblesoochi
Chef
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: salazare]
    #1696920 - 07/08/03 06:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Poo=potent shrooms. assuming your using poo and straw with the outdoor tek, then i would think they would be pretty potent, but with outdoor you have to worry about the weather, bugs and other pests.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!


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Offlinesalazare
fan_of_shrooms
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 185
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: soochi]
    #1696985 - 07/08/03 06:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ok thanks


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: MycoCakeEater]
    #1698846 - 07/09/03 06:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

'The substrate used, for cubensis, has nothing to do with potency. That was decided by genetics. '

What an absolute load of shite...
Gartz demonstrated that the tryptomine/tryptophan precursors in a substrate directly effected the potency of mushrooms fruit off it. Infact it had a grfeater effect on the variability of alkaloid content than spore race genetics.
Anyone who tells you that BRF produces cubensis that even compare in potency to those grown off bulk manure or millet is lying or does not know what they are talking about.
BRF IS THE CRAPPEST SUBSTRATE!! IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME GROW CUBIES ON MILLET AND GET BACK TO ME!!


--------------------


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
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Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Ainasko]
    #1698848 - 07/09/03 06:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Thankyou for demonstrating you lack of understanding of mushroom genetics. Please do some research!


--------------------


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InvisibleAinasko
Oksania
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 694
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1698990 - 07/09/03 09:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bluemeanie said:
Thankyou for demonstrating you lack of understanding of mushroom genetics. Please do some research!




Thank you for demonstrating your lack of manners.

I don't think we are disagreeing. If you would have carefully read my statement you would have noticed that the result of your statement is the same as my own.

Let me amplify my position. I'm not disagreeing that better substrates will yield a higher potency. My disagreement comes when it is suggested that we, as cultivators, can increase potency beyond its genetic ability.

I do agree that there are additives that can bring the cubensis to its optimum conditions, but never beyond its predetermined genetic code.

Again, I think we are agreeing, but on different levels. I tend to explain things on a high school level as some tend to react.

It is possible to disagree without losing our manners. There are better things to get upset about.


--------------------
Ainasko is my name backwards. I'm a girl!


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Invisibleph_plus
Malkawian

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 556
Loc: Constantinople
Re: BRF(brown rice flower), A Waste of Time? [Re: Ainasko]
    #1699055 - 07/09/03 09:56 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ainasko said:
Quote:

Sev said:
Actually, that's not -quite- true.  If a substrate was lacking in certain nutrients, the shrooms might not produce as much psylocin/psilocybin.  That needs Phosphorus, right?  So, you might get slightly weaker crops off of certain substrates ... but I don't really think that this would be all that significant, since most things contain a good amount of P, IIRC.

Anyway.  :smile:   




Actually,  it is true.  The genetic make-up is stored in the spore. This genetic make-up is commonly known as DNA. The potential of every living creature is decided before birth.

This is not to say that each and every identical spore from the same print will have the same potency. There are many environmental factors involved.

Give the same spores to two people and you'll likely get different results in potency, yield, color, texture, flavor and any other variable. The DNA will still be identical meaning that each had the same opportunities as the other.

Give the same spores to a new and experienced cultivator, and undoubtedly, those cultivated by the experienced will have the greater potency, but never beyond its genetic potential.

When given the optimum conditions, one can bring a fruit to its peak conditions, but we cannnot aid it further than its pre-programmed DNA has already designed.

In other words, if a cubensis spores maximum potential is a ten, we cannot get a twelve because of the limitations of the cubensis, not the limitations of the cultivator.

This is not opinion. This is science in the field of genetics. 






    What i really want to know is; "what" effects the shroom to reach or unreach it's max. potency? I guess that's the deal here...... sorry if i misunderstood!.... But the question is still valid!  :eyemouth:


--------------------

The word truth...... doesn't make any sense..... As if the word sense...... which isn't the truth.........


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