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InvisibleAsante
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White Guilt
    #16942994 - 10/01/12 06:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)





I'm following a discussion on another board frequented mainly by African Americans, and the topic at hand is White Guilt.

White Guilt is there defined like this:

Quote:

White Guilt definition:

"I as a white person feel bad about the history between the white race and the black race, recognize that this history has unwillingly put me in a position of racial privilege and this discomfort gives me a sense of responsibility to, in my personal life, try to be part of solving the conflict, personally making amends, rather than aggrevating the conflict by being indifferent to the existing issues or actively making them worse."




By this definition, where do you stand on White Guilt in your personal life?

The Shroomery being a forum principally inhabited by young white Americans, it seemed the perfect place to launch a poll.

.
Where do you stand on White Guilt, by the definition in this topic?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (09/30/12 10:01 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16942998 - 10/01/12 06:04 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

This will probably stir up shit but lets make every attempt to make this discussion respectful, unracist and pleasant to take part in.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante] * 1
    #16943010 - 10/01/12 06:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i'm white, and i have nothing against black people. i also did nothing to influence what happened in their history, so its not my problem. ofcourse i would want things to be made better and all that but in reality it has nothing to do with me, thus i voted neutral.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Soulidarity]
    #16943019 - 10/01/12 06:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes i'm ashamed of being Belgian because of the vile things we did in Congo :feelssadman:


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Soulidarity]
    #16943025 - 10/01/12 06:22 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with the privileges 

Unfortunately I don't agree with it causing discomfort or a sense of responsibility...

...white guilt. Definitely exists.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie] * 7
    #16943028 - 10/01/12 06:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beanhead]
    #16943033 - 10/01/12 06:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Sometimes i'm ashamed of being Belgian because of the vile things we did in Congo :feelssadman:





Its not your fault personally but yes, it was all sorts of fucked up and thats just the part we know about. I think the shadow of your past in the Congo, on a subconscious level, is part of what has Belgium so torn up today.

As to the white guilt definition, I agree with all of it, but my choice to try be on the right side of things isnt given in by racial guilt, but rather by a strong sense I have of doing the right thing, a sense that guides my actions in almost everything I do and which has nothing to do with guilt or race.


Quote:

...white guilt. Definitely exists.





Lets see about that as the poll results come in. A leading opinion in the African American topic was that white guilt as such is very rare as a sentiment, but that it far more often is used as a weapon in the hands of conservatives to beat progressives with who try to voice any sort of anti racist sentiments. And thats certainly how I see it used on the Shroomery most often so, who knows?


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16943039 - 10/01/12 06:34 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




I agree.. But even if my ancestors owned slaves... I'm a bastard child and I've made my own way
Just as I am entitled to nothing... I owe no one


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943042 - 10/01/12 06:36 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I empathize with how they must feel, black folks. Do I think they should walk around everyday with a chip on the shoulder and hate white people and expect handouts because of what happened -- naaahhh of course not. But I do empathize. Because I have on more than one occasion closed my eyes and put myself in their shoes, and knowing that once upon a time that distant relatives of mine were possibly viewed and treated as property -- well that shit is fucked up.

But as for myself personally feeling guilt -- no.


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943048 - 10/01/12 06:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


Quote:

...white guilt. Definitely exists.





Lets see about that as the poll results come in. A leading opinion in the African American topic was that white guilt as such is very rare as a sentiment, but that it far more often is used as a weapon in the hands of conservatives to beat progressives with who try to voice any sort of anti racist sentiments. And thats certainly how I see it used on the Shroomery most often so, who knows?




Going partisan.. :frown:

Thank for reminding me to vote lol I somehow forgot


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie]
    #16943056 - 10/01/12 06:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Nope I'm still confused.  Didn't vote...


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #16943065 - 10/01/12 06:47 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




This.


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Invisibledamnnation
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Gumby]
    #16943073 - 10/01/12 06:50 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Having guilt cause some assholes did some fucked up shit when I wasn't born? I don't think so...


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InvisibleChairman Meow
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943094 - 10/01/12 06:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I will never apologize for being white. I am a first generation American, and because I am white skinned, I have been treated by some like I cracked the whip myself. My family is not even from this country and I think it's disgusting how I am judged by the color of my skin for something I had no control over.

Slavery was an ugly thing, and no one disagrees with that; I think that people need to get a grip on it, and stop dividing everyone based off of the color of their skin and what happened in the past. The Holocaust was another horrible event in history, and the Jews were also slaves, and I do not see them holding a grudge to everyone they meet who happens to be German or Egyptian.


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OfflineOld Pokey
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie] * 1
    #16943108 - 10/01/12 07:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The polls responses do not adequately express my feelings on the subject.  I didn't find a response "pigeonhole" that I could comfortably crawl in.

I was raised in the south in the 1960s.  It is easy to say that all this happened a "hundred years before I was born" as the song says, or "I never owned a slave" as an oversimplification of the problem.

My parents were involved in white supremacist organizations during the civil rights struggle.  As a child I was at rallies with the cross burnings and the whole filthy "N" word rhetoric.  I know from my own personal experience that race hatred is STILL alive and kicking.

I personally am not guilty of anything but love for all my fellow man.  But knowing that this hate is still rampant and seeing the horrendous damage it has done to our nation and many others throughout history in various forms, I believe everyone has equal responsibility to work toward making irrational racial hate a thing of the past.

My understanding of human nature suggests that there is still a long hard road ahead.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943125 - 10/01/12 07:08 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

No white guilt here, no reason to have any either.

I find white guilt to be kind of funny because our society generally teaches that you should accept things that you cannot change and just move forward.

I do things everyday that probably warrant a more guilty reaction from me than a slavery scheme I didn't take part in, and I don't even feel guilty about those things.

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16943134 - 10/01/12 07:11 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?





IDK, personal morals?


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943141 - 10/01/12 07:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?





IDK, personal morals?




I have personal morals, they just don't include aimless guilt.

Pardon the question, but were you not the one that claimed you wanted this thread to remain respectful and polite?  Because I detect the subtle implication in your post that my lack of white guilt means I don't have personal morals.


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16943154 - 10/01/12 07:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




I agree.Slavery is as old as the first human organizations. All races have been slaves and all races and ethnic groups have been slave owners.

Why should I feel guilty for something someone else did...

From the late 1700’s records show that there were free blacks living in South Carolina (Schweninger, 1990, 20).  By 1860, there were thousands of “free persons of color” living in the state, and hundreds of them owned black slaves.

The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.


During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.
Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.
As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.
African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16943159 - 10/01/12 07:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Not at all, but personal morals would be a sound reason to take a stance for a particular matter, and not as much what other people say or do.

I'm pretty sure the VERY few who opted to a mild degree of white guilt in the poll did so based on personal morals, not because someone else said it.

As I said before, while I agree with much of the stance, I'm not led by guilt in the things I do in that regard, so me recommending it to others but not subscribing to it myself would be absurd. Guilt and fear are bad motivations to do something.


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943169 - 10/01/12 07:25 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Slavery is still happening, But I'm not going to be told by someone else I should feel guilty. I stand against slavery because it's wrong.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beefcakemighty] * 1
    #16943176 - 10/01/12 07:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beefcakemighty said:

I stand against slavery because it's wrong.





Thats a good reason right there.


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OfflineIts Pat
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #16943177 - 10/01/12 07:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm white and I can't help that; it's the way I was made.

I don't have anything against any race, period(.)

Also, I wasn't responsible for slavery or Jim Crow Laws; and I will not on my behalf or all white people everywhere will Apologize for something that wasn't my fault.

Thanks for that History Lesson; and it's absolutely funny how the 'History' books portray what happened then.  So then the next time a black person brings up slavery, I can cry to them a bigger tragedy - since My mom's half is Irish.

And let us not forget, the first people that 'OWNDED' the slaves before they got on Boats to come West in the Sugar - Rum - Slave trade were the Black African men who Kidnapped the African Black Slaves in the first place.

So as a Caveat by that same token everyone who is black in the USA should get made at their own Race for selling them off as slaves in the first place!

Now I can be on the black peoples side with the whole Slave Family Heritage!


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943179 - 10/01/12 07:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I even know for a fact that my mother's side of the family used to own slaves. I still find the concept of white guilt just plain stupid. It does nothing but perpetuate the idea of blacks as victims and give them some sense of entitlement.

I have no control over what my ancestors did in the past and it's not my job to make reparations for what they did. Couldn't control it then, can't control it now, not my problem.


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Gumby]
    #16943198 - 10/01/12 07:34 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

See this poll is for if you personally feel white guilt.  I personally don't
like I would think majority would agree if answering for themselves..

Now if this poll was for... If you believe others have white guilt..
Would it have different results?


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Re: White Guilt *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
    #16943204 - 10/01/12 07:37 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Celestial Traveler

Reason for deletion: -



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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16943209 - 10/01/12 07:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't neccesarily feel too bad :shrug:  all creeds through out history were made slaves at one point or another. Plus the leaders of those black nations at the time sold many of the slaves to the Europeans.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante] * 1
    #16943211 - 10/01/12 07:41 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Not at all, but personal morals would be a sound reason to take a stance for a particular matter, and not as much what other people say or do.

I'm pretty sure the VERY few who opted to a mild degree of white guilt in the poll did so based on personal morals, not because someone else said it.

As I said before, while I agree with much of the stance, I'm not led by guilt in the things I do in that regard, so me recommending it to others but not subscribing to it myself would be absurd. Guilt and fear are bad motivations to do something.




My lack of white guilt is not based on my personal morals, however.  It is based more on my ability to think logically and rationally.  Logically in that, guilt in this context would be a useless emotion with no practical benefit.

Also from a health perspective, it is only destructive, since negative emotions bring down not only your mental health, but your physical health as well oftentimes.

I'd rather invest my morality in my actions and do something that will be of some help to someone - something practical - rather than invest it in useless emotions because that's what somebody or society tells me I'm "supposed" to feel in order to be considered a moral person.


But to add to my last post, I really see a lot of inconsistency in the way that society often promotes white guilt, but at the same time there is a general attitude that there will always be problems in life, and we just need to learn to brush them off, move past them and march forward.

For example, someone who is raped, molested, abused, etc., is encouraged to leave behind these memories and work for a better future for themselves, rather than dwell on it.  This is why I see inconsistency in the idea that whites should feel guilty for past slavery.  We all probably have some personal, traumatic experiences that we are trying to move past.  What would be the point of attempting to cope with these problems and leave them in the past if we're just going to look for other problems to disturb our conscience?


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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943249 - 10/01/12 07:55 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm white and don't express much "guilt".

This is due partly to the fact that I'm involved in "white collar" (no pun intended) professions, where I can be passed over for jobs and opportunities simply based on my skin color.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943253 - 10/01/12 07:57 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Took a class called Race in Society my first semester of college. Thought those ideas were ridiculous and I still do. I give everyone the same treatment for the same behavior and that's all I can do. I don't feel guilt at all and I'm not giving anyone preferential treatment.


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OfflineTrypppy
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Darwin23]
    #16943317 - 10/01/12 08:24 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I really dislike when african americans play the race card when it really has no validity. That being said, the struggle of inner city african americans gets to me, and I should like to do more to help.


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Re: White Guilt [Re: Darwin23]
    #16943347 - 10/01/12 08:33 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm irish myself, but fortunately for us we were able to loose the accent and change our names to "pass" as the old saying goes.  So it is true that racism goes beyond black vs. white.

I always though it was insanely ironic how many of my family members are racists.  It demonstrates the cultural norm of marginalizing those who are different, even if the only functional difference is skin color and cultural persuasion.


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Re: White Guilt [Re: Old Pokey]
    #16943419 - 10/01/12 09:00 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I chose not white but endorse, BUT I don't say this because I think white people should feel bad about what white people used to do.  I had been recently thinking about this topic, but not just with african americans, with almost every race it seems like.  Acknowledging that fact seems like enough :2cents:

Edit: I should say that if I was white I would feel that way.  I'm the kind of person that always feels really guilty about the worlds problems and such, so that's just my half baked view on this.


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I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


Edited by sanchothestoner (10/01/12 09:04 AM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16943449 - 10/01/12 09:10 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




I agree, and my ancestors who came over from Poland had nothing to do with slavery what so ever.

If any people should feel guilty, are the ones who were involved in the slave trade, and they are all dead.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Posts: 11,671
Re: White Guilt [Re: qman]
    #16943490 - 10/01/12 09:20 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I have no white guilt because I personally had nothing to do with the slave trade or massacring Indians. People who feel guilty about actions they never committed are crazy in my eyes.


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Onlinelowbrow
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #16943838 - 10/01/12 10:20 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Never did like this concept of white guilt, but its been pushed for quite a while from the sidelines that we(crackas) as a whole should experience this mindset.  As an individual with free will I do not adhere to white guilt because I, personally, did not have anything to do with slavery, I am not racist, and slavery has existed since prostitution.  If I do find myself falling into this self hate thought pattern, I attempt to stamp it out poste-haste.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #16943852 - 10/01/12 10:22 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm white, and the term slave comes from the slavic people, which the romans would enslave.

I am told that warring black tribes would capture and sell black slaves for the boats to take away. Considering that warring white tribes did exactly the same thing, I believe this.

I'm opposed to all slavery, but, I can't be that much. Every bit of electronics, be it a USB socket, keyboard or motherboard is manufactured by chinese slaves. Do I feel guilty about their plight, knowing that I am contributing to it? Yes and no. Yes, because if no one bought chinese goods then the slave manufactories would close up.

And no. No, because I did not design the plan to have one factory to supply the world (as Karl Marx suggested (one factory to make all the shoes, one factory to make all the radiators)). I am not the one that authorised subsidies so that manufacturers in my country could build factories in China, and keep on funding them whilst the factories got up to speed. I am not the one working for this fucking beast system that enslaves ALL of us with taxes (taking money by force), mortgages, and terrifying us with its dehumanising agenda.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: White Guilt [Re: lowbrow]
    #16943853 - 10/01/12 10:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Never did like this concept of white guilt, but its been pushed for quite a while from the sidelines that we(crackas) as a whole should experience this mindset.  As an individual with free will I do not adhere to white guilt because I, personally, did not have anything to do with slavery, I am not racist, and slavery has existed since prostitution.  If I do find myself falling into this self hate thought pattern, I attempt to stamp it out poste-haste.




Yea its just collectivist bullshit when it really comes down to it.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beanhead]
    #16943893 - 10/01/12 10:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The idea that someone should feel butthurt because their skin is a different shade than someone else's skin due to genetic variation is fucking ridiculous.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: White Guilt [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16943900 - 10/01/12 10:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Subconsciously I have white guilt.  I wish I didnt, but it was hammered into my head all throughout school and it is a mainstream philosophy in America.  I consciously fight against my subconscious white guilt and usually win.  But sometimes its just rears up.


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OfflineLion
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Re: White Guilt *DELETED* [Re: DieCommie]
    #16944097 - 10/01/12 11:03 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Lion

Reason for deletion: meh



--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Lion]
    #16944116 - 10/01/12 11:05 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck all that white guilt nonsense. I will never feel guilty about something I had no part in.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: DieCommie]
    #16944668 - 10/01/12 12:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I consciously fight against my subconscious white guilt and usually win.





Can you give an example of such a struggle?


--------------------
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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16944699 - 10/01/12 12:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Sure, when I see a black man arrested in the news my knee jerk reaction is "racist pigs".  I catch myself and consciously reject my knee jerk assumption.


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: White Guilt [Re: DieCommie]
    #16944770 - 10/01/12 12:50 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well I do not think being black is an disadvantage when you are in the music industry.

I guess being Dutch does not give me any meaningful insight into the American side of things. I do know the Dutch were pretty active in shipping slaves from Africa to plantations. Slaves that were often sold by other Africans.

History is filled with slavery, the ancients empires of the Romans and Egyptians thrived on it.


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Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineBjorn_Stormcrow
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Tripsurfer] * 1
    #16944840 - 10/01/12 01:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
Live Mythically



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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow] * 1
    #16944862 - 10/01/12 01:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ulfrick said:





Summary complete!


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie] * 1
    #16944884 - 10/01/12 01:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

friskie said:
Summary complete!




And accurate.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: DieCommie]
    #16945211 - 10/01/12 01:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What do you replace the assumption with?


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16945232 - 10/01/12 01:56 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Strongly feel contrary...

Less than one half of one percent of colonial Americans were slave owners and my family did not even enter the states until after slavery had been abolished.

When I get random black people giving me "the look" I just act confused, because I really am confused. Seriously, I haven't done anything wrong, stop looking at me like I just whipped you.


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OfflineBjorn_Stormcrow
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Re: White Guilt [Re: SWEDEN] * 1
    #16945262 - 10/01/12 01:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Not even from north America originally, was born in South Africa, granted my family moved here when I was only a couple months old so I don't remember shit but still I can't stand when I get accused of racism or profiling just because (and these are the exact words the last chick who did it used) "Your a white pig security guard".

Now I know that not everyone is like this and i've had plenty of great experiences with people of every race. some very very fun :wink:. But to be accused of racism or to be expected to feel guilty or give reparations for something that neither me or anyone in my family had anything to do with simply because of the colour of my skin... well... y'know THAT sounds awefully fucking racist to me.


--------------------
Live Mythically



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OfflineSupervillian
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow] * 1
    #16945426 - 10/01/12 02:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I am white, I have half black-half white cousins.
They are from the north.
I am from the south.

I feel that if anyone is educated enough, they can be respected.
In my area there are more uneducated black people, than educated.

When I see some hood rat OG gold teeth walking around I think almost every racist remark possible.

When I see some normal black guy walking around I think nothing of it, neither good nor bad.

Maybe that's just the way I was raised, but if you can be educated and
be a respectful person you'll be treated in the same manner.

Same goes to the White Ignorant Racist, I'm sure black people think a thing or two about them when they see em.

"Let bygons be bygons and we can move the hell on"


--------------------
Tried: Weed, 6-apb, MDMA, Mushrooms, DMT, 25c-NBOME, Salvia
Wishlist: Mescaline, LSD


Edited by Supervillian (10/01/12 02:26 PM)


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Invisible4runner
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #16945436 - 10/01/12 02:20 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck white guilt.
I had no hand in the past and I will not feel guilty about what my families history* ever did or any other white person in the past.

If people can't let go of the past nothing will ever change. I am not saying to forget it, I am saying everyone needs to get over it. Holding resentment is poisonous.

Racism is everywhere, I see it in all cultures and ethnic backgrounds, although sometimes I see it a bit more tolerated when non-whites hold that anger and hate under the guise of pride.


* A little bit of my family history (the Boltons)
Quote:



A Murdered Slave Trader At Rest In the Elmwood Cemetery In Memphis, Tennessee

This is a photograph that I took of the weathering stature atop the large and ornate headstone of Wade Hampton Bolton in the Elmwood Cemetery in the city of Memphis, Tennessee.

Mr. Bolton was born to John and Mary Lancaster Bolton in North Carolina on December 8, 1812. In 1850, Mr. Bolton, his brother, Isaac Bolton, and cousin, Washington Bolton, formed a business partnership with a Mr. Thomas Dickins. The four-way partnership specialized in the buying and selling of “cotton acclimated” slaves throughout the “Deep South” of the United States. “Cotton acclimated” slaves were those slaves who were physically accustomed to the labor intensive planting and harvesting of cotton. This business partnership lasted until 1857.

In 1857, a Mr. James McMillan of Kentucky sold the unexpired term of apprenticeship of a free black man to Isaac Bolton. Once the term of apprenticeship was completed, the freedman was to be released and allowed to live free. However, Mr. Bolton knowingly sold this freedman to a customer as a “slave for life.” Before he could be handed over to the buyer, the freedman secured the legal assistance of the Frazer and Jones Law Firm of Memphis. His attorneys took Isaac Bolton to court and charged him with the crime of selling a legally free black man back into slavery. The court sided with the freedman and his attorneys and convicted Isaac Bolton of a felony.

The Bolton family lost their reputation as a result of this fiasco. Perhaps to seek some sort of revenge, Wade Bolton summoned Mr. McMillan to Memphis under the presumption that he wished to purchase a slave named “Fancy Boy” for his wife. When McMillan arrived, Isaac Bolton confronted him and demanded a refund for the freedman who he had earlier tried to sell. In the ensuing argument, Isaac Bolton shot and killed McMillan in the family’s office.

Isaac Bolton was tried and acquitted of McMillan’s murder in a highly publicized trial in Memphis in 1857. The acquittal of Bolton came at the expense of the outrage of the public. Mr. Dickins soon became involved in a quarrel with the Boltons over accrued legal expenses and loss of reputation. The quarrel soon became deadly as a man named Mr. Wilson, who worked for Wade Bolton, and a female slave named Nancy, also belonging to Wade Bolton, were both killed.

Soon, the Boltons and Dickins families exchanged a war of words and bullets that lasted throughout the duration of the United States Civil War. On July 14, 1869, Wade Bolton was in downtown Memphis. As he was entering the court square, Dickins approached him, pulled out his pistol, and fired at Bolton, who died nine days later on July 23, 1869.

Dickins was brought to trial for the murder of Wade Bolton but was acquitted. After his acquittal at the end of the 27 day long trial, Dickins openly bragged about getting away with Bolton’s murder; however, Bolton’s family sought vengeance. On July 30, 1870, while outside of the Memphis city limits, Dickins was ambushed and killed by members of the Bolton family…no one was ever brought to trial for his murder. Dickins’ son, Dr. Samuel Dickins, was also murdered near the same spot shortly thereafter.
The last will and testament of Wade H. Bolton bequeathed to his son, Seth, “$5,000, provided he lends an assisting hand and helps to defeat the gigantic swindle of old Tom Dickens and his tool, Sarah W. Bolton (widow of his cousin, Washington, who sided with Dickins.) “ Bolton also stated in his will that “I give and bequeath to my niece, Josephine Bolton, now wife of the notorious Dr. Samuel Dickens (the Judas of the family) $5, one sixth of what Judas Iscariot got for betraying the Lord.” Bolton also left $10,000 to the widow of Confederate General Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

Ironically, Wade Bolton is buried beside his former business partner and nemesis, Thomas Dickins





Not proud of that tidbit at all, but again, I had nothing to do with it, I will never look at a black man and feel shame.


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Offlinehuman experience
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #16945648 - 10/01/12 02:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)



Have to pay respect to Minor Threat  :rockon:

No white guilt felt whatsoever.

Actually, I see few advantages in being white. IMO, the race card has been well played. At what point do people simply take responsibility for their own lives and quit being victims of something from a distant past? Time to move forward and stop using crutches. I will even say from my experience, many white people are very open minded, accepting, and tolerant of other cultures and their histories.


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: White Guilt [Re: human experience]
    #16946155 - 10/01/12 03:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hell Yeah! Minor Threat!:bender:


--------------------
"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"


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InvisibleDeadkndys420
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #16946159 - 10/01/12 03:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Minor threat version is waaay better then alayers imo.


--------------------
Almond Flour said:
Thats right. I take it up the ass on a daily. It feels great to finally let this out :gay:

How to use PGP encryption
The Stoner's Cookbook


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Invisiblememes
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Supervillian]
    #16946353 - 10/01/12 04:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

White.  No guilt for the existence of slavery.  Acceptance of my "head start" in life as a white middle class male.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16946364 - 10/01/12 04:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
What do you replace the assumption with?




I replace it with no assumption.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: White Guilt [Re: memes]
    #16946368 - 10/01/12 04:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Acceptance of my "head start" in life as a white middle class male.




As opposed to black and brown middle class males?


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Offlinejoe666
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16946462 - 10/01/12 04:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Wiccan , I've seen you and pris lock MANY, MANY threads like this, saying people are bringing racism into the pub.

I feel this thread should be locked, like you 2 have locked so many other threads........


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.



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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16946530 - 10/01/12 05:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I honestly don't feel any guilt for being "caucasian", I'd feel more guilty for being human than anything, but in the end being human is just a result of birth in the same way that ethnicity is. There's no reason anybody should feel guilty for being white, just as nobody of any other ethnicity should feel guilty. The only thing to feel guilty for is being a prick, and if a person is content being a prick, then there's no reason to feel guilty. Just my :twocents:


--------------------
"I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits
"I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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OfflineImperialCactus
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16946555 - 10/01/12 05:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I can't take responsibility for stuff that my race did generations ago. And i'm not sure about that racial privilege part. But having said that i do feel it's important to try to treat everyone as equals, just accept that we are all different. It doesn't always have to be a bad thing, some people are too quick to hate for no good reason. I try to look for the good in people, just have to be careful to not overlook the bad parts as well.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: White Guilt [Re: DieCommie]
    #16946583 - 10/01/12 05:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

meams said:
Acceptance of my relative "head start" in life as a white middle class male.




As opposed to black and brown middle class males?



allow me to fix my statement with the inserted bold text.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: joe666]
    #16946593 - 10/01/12 05:15 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The original post is properly worded with plenty of content :mypleasure: and throughout the thread people are behaving and not succumbing so far to problematic posting.

This one is going quite nicely so far, if disruption should happening its people taking it to the thread, not the thread itself.

Pubbers civilly discussing, no racism here.

I rarely close racial threads and when I do its usually crap quality ones, like the OP's only content being a racist joke or a racist pitch that is almost guaranteed to lead to trouble.


--------------------
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higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: DieCommie]
    #16946607 - 10/01/12 05:18 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
What do you replace the assumption with?




I replace it with no assumption.






No assumption, in absence of evidence, is the right assumption.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: White Guilt [Re: joe666]
    #16946711 - 10/01/12 05:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see how not feeling guilty about being white is racist...


--------------------
"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"


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