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InvisibleAsante
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White Guilt
    #16942994 - 10/01/12 06:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)





I'm following a discussion on another board frequented mainly by African Americans, and the topic at hand is White Guilt.

White Guilt is there defined like this:

Quote:

White Guilt definition:

"I as a white person feel bad about the history between the white race and the black race, recognize that this history has unwillingly put me in a position of racial privilege and this discomfort gives me a sense of responsibility to, in my personal life, try to be part of solving the conflict, personally making amends, rather than aggrevating the conflict by being indifferent to the existing issues or actively making them worse."




By this definition, where do you stand on White Guilt in your personal life?

The Shroomery being a forum principally inhabited by young white Americans, it seemed the perfect place to launch a poll.

.
Where do you stand on White Guilt, by the definition in this topic?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (09/30/12 10:01 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16942998 - 10/01/12 06:04 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

This will probably stir up shit but lets make every attempt to make this discussion respectful, unracist and pleasant to take part in.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante] * 1
    #16943010 - 10/01/12 06:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i'm white, and i have nothing against black people. i also did nothing to influence what happened in their history, so its not my problem. ofcourse i would want things to be made better and all that but in reality it has nothing to do with me, thus i voted neutral.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Soulidarity]
    #16943019 - 10/01/12 06:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes i'm ashamed of being Belgian because of the vile things we did in Congo :feelssadman:


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Soulidarity]
    #16943025 - 10/01/12 06:22 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with the privileges 

Unfortunately I don't agree with it causing discomfort or a sense of responsibility...

...white guilt. Definitely exists.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie] * 7
    #16943028 - 10/01/12 06:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Beanhead]
    #16943033 - 10/01/12 06:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Sometimes i'm ashamed of being Belgian because of the vile things we did in Congo :feelssadman:





Its not your fault personally but yes, it was all sorts of fucked up and thats just the part we know about. I think the shadow of your past in the Congo, on a subconscious level, is part of what has Belgium so torn up today.

As to the white guilt definition, I agree with all of it, but my choice to try be on the right side of things isnt given in by racial guilt, but rather by a strong sense I have of doing the right thing, a sense that guides my actions in almost everything I do and which has nothing to do with guilt or race.


Quote:

...white guilt. Definitely exists.





Lets see about that as the poll results come in. A leading opinion in the African American topic was that white guilt as such is very rare as a sentiment, but that it far more often is used as a weapon in the hands of conservatives to beat progressives with who try to voice any sort of anti racist sentiments. And thats certainly how I see it used on the Shroomery most often so, who knows?


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16943039 - 10/01/12 06:34 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




I agree.. But even if my ancestors owned slaves... I'm a bastard child and I've made my own way
Just as I am entitled to nothing... I owe no one


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943042 - 10/01/12 06:36 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I empathize with how they must feel, black folks. Do I think they should walk around everyday with a chip on the shoulder and hate white people and expect handouts because of what happened -- naaahhh of course not. But I do empathize. Because I have on more than one occasion closed my eyes and put myself in their shoes, and knowing that once upon a time that distant relatives of mine were possibly viewed and treated as property -- well that shit is fucked up.

But as for myself personally feeling guilt -- no.


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943048 - 10/01/12 06:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


Quote:

...white guilt. Definitely exists.





Lets see about that as the poll results come in. A leading opinion in the African American topic was that white guilt as such is very rare as a sentiment, but that it far more often is used as a weapon in the hands of conservatives to beat progressives with who try to voice any sort of anti racist sentiments. And thats certainly how I see it used on the Shroomery most often so, who knows?




Going partisan.. :frown:

Thank for reminding me to vote lol I somehow forgot


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie]
    #16943056 - 10/01/12 06:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Nope I'm still confused.  Didn't vote...


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #16943065 - 10/01/12 06:47 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




This.


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Invisibledamnnation
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Gumby]
    #16943073 - 10/01/12 06:50 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Having guilt cause some assholes did some fucked up shit when I wasn't born? I don't think so...


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InvisibleChairman Meow
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943094 - 10/01/12 06:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I will never apologize for being white. I am a first generation American, and because I am white skinned, I have been treated by some like I cracked the whip myself. My family is not even from this country and I think it's disgusting how I am judged by the color of my skin for something I had no control over.

Slavery was an ugly thing, and no one disagrees with that; I think that people need to get a grip on it, and stop dividing everyone based off of the color of their skin and what happened in the past. The Holocaust was another horrible event in history, and the Jews were also slaves, and I do not see them holding a grudge to everyone they meet who happens to be German or Egyptian.


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OfflineOld Pokey
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Re: White Guilt [Re: friskie] * 1
    #16943108 - 10/01/12 07:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The polls responses do not adequately express my feelings on the subject.  I didn't find a response "pigeonhole" that I could comfortably crawl in.

I was raised in the south in the 1960s.  It is easy to say that all this happened a "hundred years before I was born" as the song says, or "I never owned a slave" as an oversimplification of the problem.

My parents were involved in white supremacist organizations during the civil rights struggle.  As a child I was at rallies with the cross burnings and the whole filthy "N" word rhetoric.  I know from my own personal experience that race hatred is STILL alive and kicking.

I personally am not guilty of anything but love for all my fellow man.  But knowing that this hate is still rampant and seeing the horrendous damage it has done to our nation and many others throughout history in various forms, I believe everyone has equal responsibility to work toward making irrational racial hate a thing of the past.

My understanding of human nature suggests that there is still a long hard road ahead.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943125 - 10/01/12 07:08 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

No white guilt here, no reason to have any either.

I find white guilt to be kind of funny because our society generally teaches that you should accept things that you cannot change and just move forward.

I do things everyday that probably warrant a more guilty reaction from me than a slavery scheme I didn't take part in, and I don't even feel guilty about those things.

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16943134 - 10/01/12 07:11 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?





IDK, personal morals?


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Asante]
    #16943141 - 10/01/12 07:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

So why should I feel bad about slavery then?  Because somebody wants me to feel guilty?





IDK, personal morals?




I have personal morals, they just don't include aimless guilt.

Pardon the question, but were you not the one that claimed you wanted this thread to remain respectful and polite?  Because I detect the subtle implication in your post that my lack of white guilt means I don't have personal morals.


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: White Guilt [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16943154 - 10/01/12 07:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've never owned a slave. I've never known anyone who's owned a slave. I think affirmative action has created a class of victims. Affirmative action treats minorities as if they were incompetent buffoons that are too stupid to exist on their own.

I have no white guilt, and think those that do are unintelligent asswipes.




I agree.Slavery is as old as the first human organizations. All races have been slaves and all races and ethnic groups have been slave owners.

Why should I feel guilty for something someone else did...

From the late 1700’s records show that there were free blacks living in South Carolina (Schweninger, 1990, 20).  By 1860, there were thousands of “free persons of color” living in the state, and hundreds of them owned black slaves.

The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.


During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.
Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.
As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.
African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: White Guilt [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16943159 - 10/01/12 07:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Not at all, but personal morals would be a sound reason to take a stance for a particular matter, and not as much what other people say or do.

I'm pretty sure the VERY few who opted to a mild degree of white guilt in the poll did so based on personal morals, not because someone else said it.

As I said before, while I agree with much of the stance, I'm not led by guilt in the things I do in that regard, so me recommending it to others but not subscribing to it myself would be absurd. Guilt and fear are bad motivations to do something.


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