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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16903543 - 09/24/12 04:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
There is no such thing as 'western' medicine.  That is a misnomer propagated by mystics and nuts.




this


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OfflineFire is Born
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: predux]
    #16903557 - 09/24/12 04:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

In answer to the OP Homoeopathy is :sploosh:


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OfflineThe_Ghost
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16903564 - 09/24/12 04:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
There is no such thing as 'western' medicine.  That is a misnomer propagated by mystics and nuts.



God bless semantics. Allowing opinionated, closed minded people to run arguments in circles since the dawn of literacy. :thumbup:


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: The_Ghost] * 1
    #16903582 - 09/24/12 04:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

why are you so butthurt by science?

I want to know the secrets behind science's ability to rustle jimmies!


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: The_Ghost]
    #16903592 - 09/24/12 04:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The_Ghost said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
There is no such thing as 'western' medicine.  That is a misnomer propagated by mystics and nuts.



God bless semantics. Allowing opinionated, closed minded people to run arguments in circles since the dawn of literacy. :thumbup:




This works both ways.

I have nothing against "alternative medicine", but we are talking about homeopathy here.  Dosage just doesn't matter with that stuff, you could drink glasses of homeopathic sleeping medicine all day like water, people do it all the time as a joke.


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Offlines240779
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #16903609 - 09/24/12 04:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Guess what, there was a homeopathic LSD experiment! It involved one 250 microgram windowpane in 1060 drops of water.

Skip to the "Provers" section to read the experience reprots.

http://www.hominf.org/lsd/lsdframe.htm


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779]
    #16903644 - 09/24/12 04:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

240779 said:
Guess what, there was a homeopathic LSD experiment! It involved one 250 microgram windowpane in 1060 drops of water.

Skip to the "Provers" section to read the experience reprots.

http://www.hominf.org/lsd/lsdframe.htm




Wouldn't homeopathic LSD cause opposite symptoms to LSD, or something like that?

I bet the water in the ocean remembers alot of fish poop.


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779] * 1
    #16903650 - 09/24/12 04:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think reading papers from proponents of the subject in question
is sound scientific scrutiny.

Also, I have taken bunk LSD before. Don't need to read about anybody else's experience with it.


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Offlines240779
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779]
    #16903981 - 09/24/12 05:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

If anybody wants to gain more of an understanding of the proposed mechanism of homeopathy, watch this documentary:

Water: The Great Mysery

http://vimeo.com/35724621


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Offlines240779
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: Ganzig]
    #16909770 - 09/25/12 04:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ganzig said:
I don't think reading papers from proponents of the subject in question
is sound scientific scrutiny.




I don't believe that the researchers referred to in my above post were proponents of homeopathy (posted again at the bottom of this post). I don't understand why a person can't embrace something that isn't currently backed by science. There are many things that aren't currently backed by science (i.e. existence itself). Isn't quantum mechanics a branch of science that is riddled with hypotheses? I don't see why homeopathy can't fit into the Quantum Science category then (as opposed to being totally dismissed). I would imagine that the majority of the people in this thread have gone as far in their investigation as simply watching a YouTube video addressing homeopathy from a skeptical perspective. Maybe you should be a little more open minded and get your information from, for example, the documentary in my above post.

--
A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water.
Conventional wisdom says that the dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart as a solution is diluted. But two chemists have found that some do the opposite: they clump together, first as clusters of molecules, then as bigger aggregates of those clusters. Far from drifting apart from their neighbours, they got closer together.
The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work.

Read more... http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1532-bizarre-chemical-discovery-gives-homeopathic-hint.html

Journal reference: Chemical Communications (2001, p 2224)

--
physicist Louis Rey in Lausanne, Switzerland, has published a paper in the mainstream journal, Physica A, describing experiments that suggest water does have a memory of molecules that have been diluted away, as can be demonstrated by a relatively new physical technique that measures thermoluminescence

Read more... http://www.i-sis.org.uk/WaterRemembers.php

Rey L. Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Physica A 2003, 323, 67-74.
--


Edited by s240779 (09/25/12 05:59 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779]
    #16909780 - 09/25/12 04:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Isn't quantum mechanics a branch of science that is riddled with hypotheses?




No.  Its arguably the most accurate scientific theory ever created.  Its predictions match observations to over 10 decimal places of precision.

Quote:

I don't see why homeopathy can't fit into the Quantum Science category then (as opposed to being totally dismissed).




It has nothing to do with quantum theory.  I don't know what 'Quantum Science' is, sounds like made up technobabble.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779]
    #16909800 - 09/25/12 04:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The Amazing Randi overdosing on homeopathic sleeping pills


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Offlines240779
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #16909939 - 09/25/12 05:22 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
The Amazing Randi overdosing on homeopathic sleeping pills




That a substance cannot be overdosed on cannot alone support the invalidation of said substance, let alone all homeopathic remedies.

Practitioners acknowledge that their practices are not supported by scientific studies. But scientific studies don't need to exist for something to work, obviously.

Quote:

Flower essences are easy, harmless healing modalities that incorporate change on all levels of the body and psyche. They are part of a larger category of healing called vibrational medicine which includes homeopathy, gem elixirs and environmental, astrological and angelic elixirs. These vibrational remedies work primarily on levels of consciousness; new to Western civilization, they have been used for thousands of years by indigenous peoples of Australia and other continents. In their modern form they were developed in the 1930s by Dr. Edward Bach, an English homeopath searching for an effective healing mode that would cause no harm to the patient.

Because these are vibrational remedies and not herbal preparations or essential oils, a laboratory analysis would reveal no physical presence of the plants themselves. Rather, similar to homeopathic remedies, their energies exist only on vibrational levels, which modern science has developed very few techniques for measuring.




http://www.shamansmarket.com/-strse-Health-and-Wellbeing-cln-Flower-%26-Vibrational-Remedies-cln-Hummingbird-Remedies/Categories.bok

Once again, if you want to understand how these practices could even possibly be possible, you have to read up on various "new age" principles of water. So far, I can recommend a documentary called Water: The Great Mysery.

Code:
http://vimeo.com/35724621



Edited by s240779 (09/25/12 05:41 PM)


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OfflineGEncore
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: s240779]
    #16909995 - 09/25/12 05:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Look I'm not about to go out and defend homeopathy, in fact I think it's bullshit myself, but some of you are not understanding how it works. Or how its defenders pretend it works, rather.

It's not used to cure illnesses. That's traditional medicine's job. Homeopathy instead is meant to be taken every day, as a means to "balance" your body and inner energy. They work on your chakras and consciousness. It's supposed to make you feel better both physically and psychologically in the long run - you take it as a prevention, as a way of life rather. You use it when you're healthy, when you get sick you turn to regular medicine. The idea is you'll get much less sick if youre homeopathic, and feel better overall; and it will help you bring out psychological traumas you might have.

I personally don't think it works, but if we're gonna value reason and science above all, we gotta look at the facts straight.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: GEncore]
    #16910010 - 09/25/12 05:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Homeopathy instead is meant to be taken every day...




Who defines or defined what it is 'meant to be'?  And more importantly, why is their interpretation and meaning taken above others?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: GEncore]
    #16910039 - 09/25/12 05:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Homeopathy: a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on the doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure that disease in sick people.
-wikipedia




Quote:

Homeopathy is a system of medicine which involves treating the individual with highly diluted substances, given mainly in tablet form, with the aim of triggering the body’s natural system of healing. Based on their specific symptoms, a homeopath will match the most appropriate medicine to each patient.

Homeopathy is based on the principle that you can treat ‘like with like’, that is, a substance which causes symptoms when taken in large doses, can be used in small amounts to treat those same symptoms.
-Society of homeopaths




You have it wrong GE, I think you are talking about alternative/holistic medicine as a whole.


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OfflineGEncore
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #16910061 - 09/25/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hm. That's the argument I heard homeopaths use countless times before

It definitely made more sense to me, there's no way you can cure any disease with homeopathy right on the spot. no way


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: What exactly is homeopathy? [Re: GEncore]
    #16910082 - 09/25/12 05:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

That is because they don't really look into the history behind homeopathy, they just believe it because it sounds new-agey and they're disposed towards those sorts of fanciful things.


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