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Offliner05c03
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A. muscara
    #1688836 - 07/05/03 10:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hey,

Asking from the point of interest in mycorrhizal species cultivation and not from a "tripping" point of view who has experiece with Amanita muscara? How well will it clone? How well do spores germinate on agar? Any experiences or thoughts on inoculating seedlings?


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Offlinedaba
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Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1688879 - 07/05/03 11:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Are you trying to cultivate it indoors? Good luck :wink:.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1689408 - 07/06/03 04:02 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't have much info about it but I heard that growing cultures on agar is not so hard. I will try to collect spores & cultures of some mycorrhizal species this autumn. My primary goal will be to get Amanita cesarea which is a choice edible similar to A. muscaria and is almost completely extinct. I will also try to clone the exact partner tree and gather its seeds to grow plantlets in sterile conditions.
I advise you to get the book: "Growing plants from test tubes" from the shroomery book store, if you plan to do something like this. That's all I have so far... :smirk: 


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Offliner05c03
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Re: A. muscara [Re: daba]
    #1689646 - 07/06/03 08:14 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, I am not trying to cult. in doors. Wat I am planning on doing is incoculaten norway spruce or aspen seedlings with spores and or mycelial fragments. The idea of course being to inoculate trees, plant them, and wait....

Hey Z- so A. caesaria is almost extinct? Is that due to wild harvesters or is it rare to begin with, or both? Thanks for the info regarding germination and cloning with the muscara. I am heading to the lab today so I will give both a try.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1689653 - 07/06/03 08:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It was quite common about 20-30 years ago. This mushroom is called Ceasar's amanita because it was very popular mushroom in the time of Roman empire about 2000 years ago. It's not known why it's disappearing but in Europe it's so with many mycorrhizal mushrooms. Overpicking, habitat loss, pollution... :frown:
I've seen them only on a mushroom exhibition, but I know a guy who picks them every year in his secret patch. 


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A. muscara [Re: zeronio]
    #1690159 - 07/06/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Didn't one of the Ceasars die from mushroom poisoning?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: A. muscara [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1691828 - 07/07/03 02:50 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know exactly, but I heard that Amanita phalloides was often used as a poision in the past dark ages. A. cesarea is often mistaken with A. muscaria, but we know that this is probably not fatal. :laugh:



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Anonymous

Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1692484 - 07/07/03 09:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

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Offlinedaba
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Re: A. muscara [Re: ]
    #1692538 - 07/07/03 10:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nice information, as always Mr. M! :thumbup:


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Invisiblepsyconaut
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Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1692637 - 07/07/03 11:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Do remember that this is Gourmet and Medicinals :-p

I'll let it slide as you'll probably get a better dialog going here than other forums (and I'm sure that's the basis of posting it here), but let's try and respect the guidelines in future kids :-)

Thanks,

-psy


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OfflinePaid
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Re: A. muscara [Re: psyconaut]
    #1692953 - 07/07/03 01:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Man Amanita Muscaria is Gourmet  :nut: lol


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Offliner05c03
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Re: A. muscara [Re: ]
    #1693095 - 07/07/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>One school of thought is that you must have a seedling in order to inoculate. I am not sure if that is true. I would also create a slurry of mycelium using the liquid inoculation technique, expose the rootlets of a mature tree, and inoculate it that way. I think that might prove to be much faster.

Yeah I had thought of that to but if you do this to a tree that you have not observed for years you really do not know for sure that if inoculated a tree and a mushroom started popping up that it is because you inoculated it. There is a good chance, but it is not a given. Plus it would be nice to have method worked out to do it from scratch, just for fun, as well as for other edibles.

>We don't really know what causes a species to die out but I suspect a variety of reasons are responsible. As long as the environment holds steady, read enough rain and no pollution, the mycelium of a mycorrhizal mushroom will live as long as the tree does (we have no data to the contrary).

I am not sure that I agree that the "mycelium" would live as long as the tree. Having no data to the contrary is not proof, and there is data to show that mycorrhizal specie are not contstant over time and that they change with environmental influence, for example. I think what is more likely that has the trees roots die back, and regrow as they do cyclicly that there is reinoculation from spores or from mycelium in the soil. The EM mantle structures may last for a number of years, but I am not sure that they last the life of the tree as the structures that the EM mantles form on roots that are relatively short lived compared to the life of the tree. Of course EM species already in the tree's root zone have a huge advantage for maintaining their association with the tree.

Also, since there is so little information on the effect of over-picking as a "myth" it should not be dismissed. Many wild-crafters would not like there supplemental income sources to become seen as "unsustainable", but it may be shown that they are. One should not assume that because one species of EM fungus does not seem impacted by "over picking" that others are not adversely affected. Some species may be more sensitive than others.

Lastly, let me say that I posted here because this is not an "illegal" mushroom, there is only a shade of gray between where mind-altering compounds and medicinal compounds can be sorted, and that this forum by far seems to have the most serious and knowledgable posters.



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A. muscara [Re: Paid]
    #1693121 - 07/07/03 02:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The time I did some I did it in some chicken broth.

I thought it was tasty.


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OfflinePaid
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Re: A. muscara [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1693802 - 07/07/03 06:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I have to try the way mj said the russians used to do it, i.e get my wife to chew up the dryed caps, then give me the pulp to swallow :-)
Because the taste makes me wont to chuck straight away now.
But chicken broth is a good way to :-) i'm sure.


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Offliner05c03
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Re: A. muscara [Re: Paid]
    #1694000 - 07/07/03 08:15 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hey hey, psyconaut may have a point now ... :laugh:.  Another way of course is to feed it to an animal or someone else and drink their urince....mmmmm the golden shower smoothy. 


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Invisiblepsyconaut
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Re: A. muscara [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1694006 - 07/07/03 08:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, folks...keep up the drug talk and I'm afraid I'll close down this thread like the cold, unfeeling gestapo fiend that I am. :tongue:

Seriously, though...I'll let the cultivation talk of this specimen live here, but if you want to keep talking about how you prepared it for ingestion or any other non-cultivation related banter, then this is definitely the wrong place.

Hope y'all understand.

-psy 


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: A. muscara [Re: psyconaut]
    #1695185 - 07/08/03 02:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, guys joked about psychoactive properties of Amanita muscaria but it is also edible if prepared correctly!

vvvvvv

Quote:


Despite references to the mushroom as being "poisonous" I figured that there were enough references to pickling the mushroom that it would be safe to eat it if I began culinary preparations the way mushroom pickling is begun -- with boiling. In consultation with David Arora I begin eating A. muscaria after having boiled it in lightly salted water for a few minutes. Even though I had confidence that the boiled mushroom would be pefectly safe to eat, I worked up, one day at a time, from a tiny piece of cap, to a quarter cap, to half a cap, to a whole cap, and the only effect, which increased as the quantity of cap eaten increased, was one of great pleasure, because the Santa Cruz, California, variant of A. muscaria is big, thick, and sweet tasting.

Since the initial testing period, David has fed hundrds of people A. muscaria with no ill effect. David has also now visited Nagano Prefecture, Japan, and seen the Japanese A. muscaria harvest, eaten at a restaurant that serves the mushroom, and tasted the famous Japanese muscaria pickles.





http://www.williamrubel.com/Mushrooms/muscaria.html


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Anonymous

Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1695970 - 07/08/03 11:19 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
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Re: A. muscara [Re: ]
    #1706640 - 07/11/03 07:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks. Your observations are insightful. I guess I was just being nitpicky in that I think that mycorrhizal species often remain associated with trees over the tree's life time, but that the actual structures of the interaction and the mycelium are ephemeral, getting sloughed at roots die, but reforming on other young feeder roots. Mycelium or spores or both may be responsible for this. I also think though that if a give tree is disturbed (the definition which can be broad) there is a chance that other EM fungi can get established. I have friend that studies and mycorrhizzal fungi and, for example, fertilization can really alter EM species.

I envy your stories of the chanterlles, there are not all that common out here in Indiana.....

nice discussion.


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Anonymous

Re: A. muscara [Re: r05c03]
    #1708074 - 07/12/03 10:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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