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 lokariototal
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 150
Last seen: 9 years, 25 days
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 Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? 
#16883736 - 09/20/12 10:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/american-teen-dies-from-hallucinogen-in-peru/
Have you heard about this news? How did this happen? I thought all psychedelics were harmless...
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 Shroomopotamus
Happy Mushrooming
 
Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 18,757
Loc: Funkotron
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal]
#16883749 - 09/20/12 10:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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his soul was eaten alive by the devil
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*
Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
    
This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all
Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible
Be happy
Be nice
(<3);}
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Toxicity
escapist
Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 337
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Shroomopotamus]
#16883773 - 09/20/12 10:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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latino foxnews.
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4HO-DMT
Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Shroomopotamus] 1
#16883781 - 09/20/12 10:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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DMT has a much lower LD50 than LSD or psilocybin:
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 2,207
Loc: zone 9b
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: 4HO-DMT] 1
#16883811 - 09/20/12 10:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Its probably just fox news being fox news spreading misinformation.
My favorite is when they were saying you would get herpies by playing beer pong if you were not careful.
They merely picked up a spoof article in a college paper, and blasted it all over the main stream. Good job fox, real quality production you have there.
"Authorities said Wednesday that the shaman, who calls himself "Maestro Mancoluto," told them that Kyle Nolan died after exceeding the dosage of a medicinal plant called Ayahuasca on Aug. 22"
Didn't know ayahuasca was a plant, this article is very informative.
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Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST
‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right?
‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd 
Edited by GreedAndVanity (09/20/12 11:02 PM)
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Enantiodrome
Wanderer
Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 214
Loc: Here
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? *DELETED* [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#16883910 - 09/20/12 11:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EnantiodromeReason for deletion: irrelevent
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Enantiodromia - The process by which something is transformed into or revealed as being the same as its opposite.
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highc
creator
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3,592
Loc: maryland
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Enantiodrome]
#16883938 - 09/20/12 11:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The problem comes in with the maoi. Certain drugs must not be taken with it. Or...
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Moronicus
smokehousebacon.
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 4,430
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: highc] 2
#16883970 - 09/20/12 11:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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and so the hippies rejoice to defend a plant with, "It's natural, brah, YOU CAN'T DIE FROM IT UNLESS YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE"
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BACON RANCH, FUCK YEAH
A post about m00nshine
Anonymous #6 said:
Yes, it is. The shine stands for his job title, which is Shoe Shiner, the moon stands for the time he comes out to be a nigger, which is best suited for the negroid camouflage.
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ShamaNick
Psychonaut
Registered: 07/12/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Treasure coast Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal]
#16883983 - 09/20/12 11:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lokariototal said:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/american-teen-dies-from-hallucinogen-in-peru/
Have you heard about this news? How did this happen? I thought all psychedelics were harmless...
The DMT is harmless butt the MAOI is extremely dangerous if proper precautions have not been taken IE refraining from many foods and drugs is necessary before consumption of MAOI
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Everything I write and say I do is for role playing and entertainment purpose only!!!
The more we learn, the more we learn we have to learn.
We are one in the river and one again after the fall.
We all come from go back to and visit the same place. so why can't we
All get along!!!
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Methodology
Stranger than Stranger
Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 499
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: ShamaNick] 1
#16884146 - 09/21/12 12:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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^^ Used as an excuse to make MHRB illegal and to justify all the raids on otherwise legal stores
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4HO-DMT
Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Methodology]
#16884176 - 09/21/12 12:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato
Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#16884709 - 09/21/12 03:56 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can die from anything. He could've died from a negative MAOI interaction, allergic reaction to the plant, accidental ingesting of a toxic plant, intentionally poisoned by the shaman, choking on his own vomit or a whole host of other things. Hell, he could've even died from a reaction to an insect bite while tripping or literally tripped and hit his head.
Remember that story of "ketamine overdose" where the person took ketamine, fell asleep outside in the cold and died from exposure?
Ayahuasca is not harmless. Don't think because it's natural or even "divine" that nothing can go wrong. The more harmless you think something is, the more dangerous it can become.
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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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damnnation
Monsieur Rêve
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1,583
Loc: Paris 
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal] 1
#16884743 - 09/21/12 04:14 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lokariototal said:
I thought all psychedelics were harmless...
Really? A lot of psychedelics could potentially kill you.
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 8,246
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal]
#16884866 - 09/21/12 05:27 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Combining western medications (Adderall) with the MAOI and other compounds in Ayahuasca in a jungle setting where competent medical help is days away...yeah, you can die. In virtually 100% of the instances where you DON'T do that or something similar, you will survive. Pharmaceticals (properly administered) kill hundreds of people EVERY DAY.
People do stupid, inadvisable things all the time - not just with psychedelics. That's why we have such competition for the Darwin Award. IMHO it's not reasonable or appropriate to blame the Ayahuasca under this set of circumstances.
N.B.
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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
 
Edited by Nature Boy (09/21/12 05:28 AM)
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Lifted1
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 1,703
Loc: North East USA 
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Nature Boy]
#16884939 - 09/21/12 06:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, the shaman and his companions looks like murderers after burying the American.
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Discovering yourself is only "discovery" in so much as you discovered that what you once thought was real, is only a mirage.
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jellyfish
Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Lifted1]
#16885135 - 09/21/12 07:29 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like a good portion of American teens he was probably on some shitty antidepressants.
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Galvie_Flu
Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 6,632
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: jellyfish]
#16885201 - 09/21/12 07:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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it could have been his body chemisty just didnt mix well with the additives the shaman used in his brew. I think the shaman used more than just cappi vine and viridis, and the kid had a heart attack.
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FakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 3,543
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
#16885260 - 09/21/12 08:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anyone that thinks drugs can be dangerous if treated without respect gets what's coming to them. It's a shame this happened, but any drug can take you to this level. Even caffeine
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I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.
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HarryL
Squnä'am
Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16885316 - 09/21/12 08:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Because one is on a drug and dies does not mean the drug killed you
Have a beer, have a heart attack.... Does not mean the heart attack was caused by the beer
He could have been bitten by a snake or spider or bee
He could have had an underlying heart condition
He could have had a peanut allergy
Could have drowned, hit by a bus, slipped in the shower and hit his head
The media and police dont want a boring cause of death... The like it to be drug related
We see this time and time again...
Yes, the Shaman acted poorly... But more for business reasons I would think ... Bad business having people die at your 'retreat'
Yes, the use of MAOI is a bit dangerous but not likely the cause of death, without another health issue present
Here is another thread on this topic
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16839537/gonew/1#UNREAD
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Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
Edited by HarryL (09/21/12 08:25 AM)
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Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow
Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 623
Loc: behind the border
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky] 1
#16885317 - 09/21/12 08:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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keep in mind that ayahuasca doesnt only consist of Caapi and DMT-containing plants.
very often shamans add Toé aka Brugmansia respectively Datura - this may cause a very fatal mixture with MAOIs and there might be western people who can´t handle such brews...
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16885358 - 09/21/12 08:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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No drug is harmless.
However, I do not see any cause of death in any of the two articles.
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Rohto
The Observer
Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 160
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: HarryL]
#16885395 - 09/21/12 08:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HarryL said:
Because one is on a drug and dies does not mean the drug killed you
Have a beer, have a heart attack.... Does not mean the heart attack was caused by the beer
He could have been bitten by a snake or spider or bee
He could have had an underlying heart condition
He could have had a peanut allergy
Could have drowned, hit by a bus, slipped in the shower and hit his head
The media and police dont want a boring cause of death... The like it to be drug related
We see this time and time again...
Yes, the Shaman acted poorly... But more for business reasons I would think ... Bad business having people die at your 'retreat'
Yes, the use of MAOI is a bit dangerous but not likely the cause of death, without another health issue present
Here is another thread on this topic
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16839537/gonew/1#UNREAD
Your right, its easy to link the death with drug use because thats what media does in our culture. Any chance they can get to shrine a bad light on "drugs" in genral, is a win-win for them. They must be hopping with joy that they found this story; after generations of proper use and safety of drug use. But this news cast clearly doesnt have all the evidence, they just knew that the kid went to a retreat where they use drug plants. He could have died from giardia for all we know.
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ShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Rohto]
#16885409 - 09/21/12 08:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The retreat center was run by a sham. Their main sham-man didn't even brew the Ayahuasca and bought it from the market. God knows how much Brugsmansia and other toxic plants could have been in there. Mancoluto, the head sham artists in charge, just gave the novices the Aya and then sent them into the jungle to walk on raised platforms alone at night or guided by hippies high as fuck on Aya or san pedro. All the while he claimed to be watching them with his third eye from his tree house. Really he was watching Peruvian soap operas on a battery powered television. Amazing that it took this long for someone to get hurt under the guidance of such a criminally negligent individual as Mancoluto.
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nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#16885457 - 09/21/12 09:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
DMT has a much lower LD50 than LSD or psilocybin:
Uh, if DXM had a lethal dose 10x higher than it's effective dose then 300mg would kill, but people regularly do 900mg and are just fine. I myself did in the neighborhood of 1500mg. So, that leads me to have some doubts about this chart. The mescaline info is also off.
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss
Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2,595
Loc: The Fucking Moon
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: nooneman]
#16885487 - 09/21/12 09:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Quote:
physicist said:
DMT has a much lower LD50 than LSD or psilocybin:
Uh, if DXM had a lethal dose 10x higher than it's effective dose then 300mg would kill, but people regularly do 900mg and are just fine. I myself did in the neighborhood of 1500mg. So, that leads me to have some doubts about this chart. The mescaline info is also off.
Well #1 this is the LD50 I believe. Which means that at that dosage 50% of the test subjects died. But I don't agree with this either, because a quick google search reveals that Albert Hoffman labeled the effective dose of LSD at 0.5µg. Which would mean that the LD50 for LSD would be 0.5mg... which is just bullshit. Unless the effective dose would be considered above the threshold dose (I believe 50µg?) That would be 50mg.. that seems a bit more believable as the LD50.
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Thetrip-25
Operation Hallucination
Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 248
Last seen: 10 years, 22 days
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: eMpire420]
#16885527 - 09/21/12 09:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh man could you just imagine what datura would do to your mind :|
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Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream
Knock the world right off its feet and straight onto its head
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4HO-DMT
Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: nooneman]
#16885884 - 09/21/12 10:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Quote:
physicist said:
DMT has a much lower LD50 than LSD or psilocybin:
Uh, if DXM had a lethal dose 10x higher than it's effective dose then 300mg would kill, but people regularly do 900mg and are just fine. I myself did in the neighborhood of 1500mg. So, that leads me to have some doubts about this chart. The mescaline info is also off.
Sorry I just pulled that chart from the web. Maybe this source is more reliable, maybe not:
Erowid
My main point was that psychedelics are not harmless.
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s240779
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,935
Last seen: 15 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: eMpire420]
#16885919 - 09/21/12 10:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
empire537 said:
because a quick google search reveals that Albert Hoffman labeled the effective dose of LSD at 0.5µg. Which would mean that the LD50 for LSD would be 0.5mg... which is just bullshit.
What the fuck did you just say?
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss
Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2,595
Loc: The Fucking Moon
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16885939 - 09/21/12 10:49 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
240779 said:
Quote:
empire537 said:
because a quick google search reveals that Albert Hoffman labeled the effective dose of LSD at 0.5µg. Which would mean that the LD50 for LSD would be 0.5mg... which is just bullshit.
What the fuck did you just say?
My bad haha, read it wron.g It's 0.5µg/kg. So active dose for a 150lbs person would be around 35µg. That still seems low.
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s240779
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,935
Last seen: 15 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: eMpire420]
#16886127 - 09/21/12 11:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, the minimum amount to feel any effects.
As far as the LD50 of LSD. Read this post: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/16824623/vc/1
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16886146 - 09/21/12 11:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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There were probably other things at play in this kid's death. Probably a lack of following the dietary restrictions, or taking SSRIs.
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FakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 3,543
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Dark_Star]
#16886161 - 09/21/12 11:29 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well think about a crystal thumbprint. Technically you would die with an ingestion like that of CID. But there are plenty in family that have done it. The ld-50 is just a reference threshold. Doesn't mean you die if you take it; just in a small sample size that amount is considered lethal. Fuck when I used to be a coke head; I was snorting 1-1.2 balls a day. That should have killed me according to the ld-50!
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I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss
Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2,595
Loc: The Fucking Moon
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16886181 - 09/21/12 11:32 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
magnifier661 said:
Well think about a crystal thumbprint. Technically you would die with an ingestion like that of CID. But there are plenty in family that have done it. The ld-50 is just a reference threshold. Doesn't mean you die if you take it; just in a small sample size that amount is considered lethal. Fuck when I used to be a coke head; I was snorting 1-1.2 balls a day. That should have killed me according to the ld-50!
Well, it literally means the threshold when 50% died. So out of a hundred test subjects 50 could survive the dose. You were just in the lucky 50%. But there's other factors that play a role (tolerance)
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16886213 - 09/21/12 11:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Those values do not account for tolerance and usually they are extrapolated as those kind of experiments are clearly not allowed with human subjects. To think those doses are precise is just nonsense. They are more like an educated guess.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613 
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Entersandman]
#16886230 - 09/21/12 11:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Entersandman said:
keep in mind that ayahuasca doesnt only consist of Caapi and DMT-containing plants.
very often shamans add Toé aka Brugmansia respectively Datura - this may cause a very fatal mixture with MAOIs and there might be western people who can´t handle such brews...
 Tobacco is also added sometimes to ayahuasca brews and is also potentially fatal.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/3132/woman-dies-in-healing-ritual-shaman-guilty
Quote:
An autopsy concluded Mrs. Maiangowi died of nicotine poisoning.
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s240779
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,935
Last seen: 15 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Dark_Star]
#16886232 - 09/21/12 11:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said:
There were probably other things at play in this kid's death. Probably a lack of following the dietary restrictions, or taking SSRIs.
I heard there are no dietary restrictions. A user on another forum equated all the natural MAOIs with the safety margin of moclobemide (a synthetic MAOI). I don't know if that's justified, but if it's true, moclobemide is extremely safe. see the following outline: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/16381568/vc/1
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FractalDust
Inspired by the mystery
Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,907
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16886760 - 09/21/12 01:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
240779 said:
Quote:
Dark_Star said:
There were probably other things at play in this kid's death. Probably a lack of following the dietary restrictions, or taking SSRIs.
I heard there are no dietary restrictions. A user on another forum equated all the natural MAOIs with the safety margin of moclobemide (a synthetic MAOI). I don't know if that's justified, but if it's true, moclobemide is extremely safe. see the following outline: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/16381568/vc/1
It's true that dietary restrictions aren't that important with ayahuasca because harmalas are RIMA's (reversible inhibitor of MAO-A) but drug interactions can still be serious or possibly fatal.
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FractalDust]
#16886817 - 09/21/12 01:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Isnt Mancaluto the shaman who works at shimbre? was this at shimbre? I sincerely hope not.
DC
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The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable
Is the violence that we do to ourselves
When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
 
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss
Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2,595
Loc: The Fucking Moon
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Demonic_Chronic]
#16886833 - 09/21/12 01:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demonic_Chronic said:
Isnt Mancaluto the shaman who works at shimbre? was this at shimbre? I sincerely hope not.
DC
http://shimbre.org read.
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: eMpire420]
#16886852 - 09/21/12 01:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doesnt say if thats what happened.
DC
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The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable
Is the violence that we do to ourselves
When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss
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Posts: 2,595
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Demonic_Chronic]
#16886857 - 09/21/12 01:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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4HO-DMT
Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Demonic_Chronic]
#16887353 - 09/21/12 03:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you read the article from my post above, it says that it was shimbre.
Quote:
physicist said:
Here is a link to a more thorough article: http://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/news/sebastopol-teen-died-in-peru-trying-to-further-open-his-mind/
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Rohto
The Observer
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#16887835 - 09/21/12 04:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
If you read the article from my post above, it says that it was shimbre.
Quote:
physicist said:
Here is a link to a more thorough article: http://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/news/sebastopol-teen-died-in-peru-trying-to-further-open-his-mind/
I was afraid of this happening.. if the above article is completely true with their facts. If these Ayahuasca retreats are just focusing more about gaining revenue for their business and less about the vulnerable patients, then this is what will happen. As a shaman should know, their sole duty is to guide these participants and make sure they are doing ok all the way through their journey and make sure they are suitable for such a potent drug. I just hope this never happens again.
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highc
creator
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Rohto]
#16890449 - 09/22/12 02:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rohto said:
Quote:
physicist said:
If you read the article from my post above, it says that it was shimbre.
Quote:
physicist said:
Here is a link to a more thorough article: http://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/news/sebastopol-teen-died-in-peru-trying-to-further-open-his-mind/
I was afraid of this happening.. if the above article is completely true with their facts. If these Ayahuasca retreats are just focusing more about gaining revenue for their business and less about the vulnerable patients, then this is what will happen. As a shaman should know, their sole duty is to guide these participants and make sure they are doing ok all the way through their journey and make sure they are suitable for such a potent drug. I just hope this never happens again.
I agree. More responsibility should def be left with the shamans. On the flipside though if you are traveling to take such an intense psychedelic brew you may want to take it into your own judgement to fully understand what your putting into your body. Especially with maoi. Not saying that's what happened but still. Kids today are like I can trip...fuck it..gulpgulpgulp
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sandi
omg
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Posts: 796
Loc: M6 (Butterfly Cluster)
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal]
#16890478 - 09/22/12 02:31 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lokariototal said:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/american-teen-dies-from-hallucinogen-in-peru/
Have you heard about this news? How did this happen? I thought all psychedelics were harmless...
Side effects can suck, but the substance itself isn't directly responsible...so while it's true, you have to use some common sense.
It's just the same as people who tout that weed is perfectly safe for every single person on Earth. If you have a heart condition and you can't handle changes in BP or heart rate very well, you can get hurt or die. But how many people have that problem and still continue to smoke? Generally, if you feel bad taking something, you stop. I can't say how many threads I have seen where people desperately ask if there is a strain that is easier on their body so they can use it medically. They are generally people who already have some bad heart issues, and ofc the best advice is to stop.
Unfortunately, sometimes you don't get another chance. Ayahuasca can cause some nasty side effects that could kill you if you had a medical condition and got severely dehydrated from puking all night. But this is just what the shaman is saying - who knows what really happened, what else the person might have been taking, or how much he pushed his body.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: sandi]
#16890911 - 09/22/12 06:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I just hope this never happens again.
It will. The collective use of psychedelic drugs under a supervision of a guide needs to be regulated, just like the drugs themselves, and the guides/shamanes should be licensed.
Only that can prevent such issues in the long run.
Personally, you should of course make sure that the Shaman/guide knows what he's doing before you attempt the journey under his guidance.
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Rohto
The Observer
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: highc]
#16891567 - 09/22/12 10:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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very true, he probably should have done some more research before embarking on such a great quest. I mean, if you plan on taking this drug, your definitely looking for some profound answers in your life i would assume; nothing to be taken lightly or on a whim. On the other flip side, im sure that young man who died had a pretty significant death experience and may have been what he need, not what he wanted. You just dont know. My condolences go out to his family.
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prettyMushy
Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 1,830
Loc: Canada
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#16892731 - 09/22/12 03:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
DMT has a much lower LD50 than LSD or psilocybin:
that says dmt is more lethal that LSD... its from the bottom going up, not up going down
and in comparison, lsd is taken at a much lower dose than DMT, its like comparing apples and oranges
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Anything posted from this account is made up for the entertainment of others, this account is a complete work of fiction. Its not illegal to get bored and make up stories, authors do it all the time.
Edited by prettyMushy (09/22/12 03:11 PM)
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Nature Boy]
#16892799 - 09/22/12 03:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Combining western medications (Adderall) with the MAOI and other compounds in Ayahuasca in a jungle setting where competent medical help is days away...yeah, you can die.
Is that speculation or is there a case where someone died as a result of that particular combo?
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FakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 3,543
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: psi]
#16892891 - 09/22/12 03:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the MAOI is what can create issues with health. Smoking the DMT isn't as bad for you. And if you use MAOI and take depressants or stimulants; it could be serious for your health. Anyone that is wanting to take the ayahuasca trip; MUST TAKE PRECAUTION. It's as simple as that.
The sad part was the Shaman is supposed to know that. It is his responsibility to be thorough with their clients to avoid shit like this. I suspect many in that circle will be more thorough next time. Sadly it was at the expense of the life of a kid.
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I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16893218 - 09/22/12 04:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I'm wondering though is whether there's any evidence that the specific MAOIs in B. caapi (as opposed to pharma MAOIs) have caused life-threatening health problems under certain circumstances. My hunch with this case is that it's more likely that something else added to the brew (e.g. tobacco or brugmansia) was what killed him, but I guess until autopsy reports are published it's all speculation. For all we know he may have simply choked to death on his own vomit.
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FakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: psi]
#16893228 - 09/22/12 04:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's what I was thinking too. I bet tobacco was added and the kid never smoked. I suspect the MAOI and Tobacco combo fucked his system up.
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I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.
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weshroom
Registered: 11/19/06
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16893304 - 09/22/12 04:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Really sad to hear, I will follow to see how the story unfolds.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16893319 - 09/22/12 05:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The one other ayahuasca related death I've read about was found to be caused primarily by a nicotine overdose. In that case it was an elderly woman with diabetes who had been off her meds for a couple days before the ceremony. Maybe this kid had a heart problem nobody knew about, who knows.
I'm not sure whether MAOIs potentiate nicotine, I'm thinking not but I could be wrong. My impression was that the MAO enzymes are pretty specific in what molecules they work on, and nicotine is not all that similar to dopamine and serotonin etc.
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orison
mcfluffysugarnuts
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: weshroom]
#16893320 - 09/22/12 05:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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some tribes mix datura with Ayahuasca..
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FakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 3,543
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: orison]
#16893326 - 09/22/12 05:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
orison319 said:
some tribes mix datura with Ayahuasca..
No shit? That is one substance I am too scared to take.
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I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: psi]
#16893376 - 09/22/12 05:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Is that speculation or is there a case where someone died as a result of that particular combo?
Adderall (dextroamphetamine and amphetamine) plus MAOI is not a necessarily a benign combination. Can I definitively say that is what led to this particular person's demise? Absolutely not. What I CAN say is that medications mix in unpredictable, and sometimes deadly ways in otherwise healthy individuals. Have I seen THAT happen? You betcha.
N.B.
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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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s240779
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: Nature Boy]
#16893492 - 09/22/12 05:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Adderall (dextroamphetamine and amphetamine)
That's not what Adderall is. is. For one, amphetamine is dextroamphetamine!
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16893643 - 09/22/12 06:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine then? In any case I guess it does make sense that any MAOI and any amphetamine stim might potentially kill you in combination at doses that wouldn't kill you individually. Just to clarify though, was there any reference to amphetamines in this specific case or are we talking about a hypothetical?
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jellyfish
Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16893679 - 09/22/12 06:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
240779 said:
That's not what Adderall is. is. For one, amphetamine is dextroamphetamine!
Other way around, dextroamphetamine is a version of amphetamine. Amphetamine can be levo or dextro. It would be bad to mix with an MAOI.
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s240779
Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: jellyfish]
#16893771 - 09/22/12 06:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jellyfish said:
Quote:
240779 said:
That's not what Adderall is. is. For one, amphetamine is dextroamphetamine!
Other way around, dextroamphetamine is a version of amphetamine. Amphetamine can be levo or dextro. It would be bad to mix with an MAOI.
But l-amphetamine is inactive, right?
And isn't there an inactive form of LSD? l-lysergic acid dietylamide? (I'm sure you've seen LSD represented as d-lysergic acid diethylamide)
My point is "lysergic acid diethylamide" is used to refer to the psychoactive form. So on the same token, "amphetamine" can be assumed to mean exclsuively the one that works.
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jellyfish
Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: s240779]
#16893839 - 09/22/12 06:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well sort of. l-amphetamine isn't inactive. It's just not as good as the d-version. And yea people do usually forget to mention only one of the optical isomers of LSD is active.
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: jellyfish]
#16895767 - 09/23/12 05:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are otherwise young, healthy folks who drop dead during athletic practice or games. They usually succumb to an initial supra-ventricular tachyarrhythmia which deteriorates into ventricular fibrillation. Adderall plus MAOI, in my opinion, could easily have been responsible for production of a fatal tachyarrhythmia in this young man.
--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Abuse
end of the line
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Posts: 6,039
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: FakePlasticSky]
#16895902 - 09/23/12 06:49 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
magnifier661 said:
Quote:
orison319 said:
some tribes mix datura with Ayahuasca..
No shit? That is one substance I am too scared to take.
Imagine if this was the case for the poor guy, he would've been going through so much mental turmoil it doesn't bare thinking about...
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iggi
ShroomSeeker
Registered: 07/25/11
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: POWAtrippin]
#16896142 - 09/23/12 08:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreedAndVanity said:
Its probably just fox news being fox news spreading misinformation.
My favorite is when they were saying you would get herpies by playing beer pong if you were not careful.
They merely picked up a spoof article in a college paper, and blasted it all over the main stream. Good job fox, real quality production you have there.
"Authorities said Wednesday that the shaman, who calls himself "Maestro Mancoluto," told them that Kyle Nolan died after exceeding the dosage of a medicinal plant called Ayahuasca on Aug. 22"
Didn't know ayahuasca was a plant, this article is very informative.
lol amazing how they figured out to blend a vine and leaf together to inhibit the breakdown of the psychedelic effect. Anyone else familiar with the perception of the heart?
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Where oh where have the little shrooms gone?
My Trip Reports:
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: lokariototal] 1
#16898352 - 09/23/12 05:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lokariototal said:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/american-teen-dies-from-hallucinogen-in-peru/
Have you heard about this news? How did this happen? I thought all psychedelics were harmless...
One of the false ideas / attitudes toward psychedelics. Some are physically safer than others. Look up information about the "therapeutic index" of these chemicals if you want to see how i mean this. Most psychedelics have a much more favorable therapeutic index than many common prescription and OTC drugs. LSD is known to have an incredible TI, which I believe is part of where this myth comes from. All psychedelics are not LSD, despite some similarities. Each psychedelic chemical is somehow unique, but LSD particularly has some interesting properties, this impressively "safe" therapeutic index being one of them.
By contrast DMT is well known to spike blood pressure and heart rate during peak, all on its own. Taken together with an MAOI this poses additional risk.
So a more fair statement would be that Ayahuasca is relatively safe if you are healthy and are not taking any medications or supplements that conflict and you have followed a sufficiently safe diet for the MAOI involved and you do not have certain pre-existing medical conditions and the brew is prepared from safe plants only (sometimes admixture plants other than just DMT and MAOI containing plants are used, such as DATURA) and you have an experienced enough guide etc, etc... you should be relatively safe...IF there is no one-in-a-billion freak occurrence.
However for most (healthy) people it is supposedly fairly safe as long as guidelines are followed...
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I am me. We are You.
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TFALLON
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/12
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Re: Teen dies from Ayahuasca... I thought ayahuasca was harmless? [Re: CidneyIndole]
#16908445 - 09/25/12 01:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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So sad. Lured by the sophisticated and elaborate Shimbre Center website. A young teen is enticed to go to Shimbre. The shaman at Shimbre and other Shimbre Team members lied! The Shimbre Team had already buried the kid, but the Shaman looked the Mother in the face and said the boy left Shimbre suddenly. What kind of person would lie to a desperate Mother. Shame on them for allowing this to happen. Shimbre lied! The Shaman lied! Shimbre's website is shut down...what are they hiding and why? All the kid wanted to do was find his life's path. Why no respect for the dead? Shameful!
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