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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Television and Big Brother
    #1687497 - 07/05/03 06:10 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe this is just the mushrooms talking, but I'm beginning to make a corellation here.  100 years ago, the federal government was much weaker than it is today.  Television starts to become more commonplace in a time in history when the federal government is starting to expand its power, and it continues to expand from there on out.  I feel like television is sort of like soma in Huxley's Brave New World.  It tries to lull us into a state of mind where rebellion is more difficult.  Like I said, tho--this could just be the mushrooms talking. :wink:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinetrev
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687501 - 07/05/03 06:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes but in a less sinister way its simply the corporations lulling us into a society that needs to spend to be happy and accepted (ever notice how happy people in car ads are) this should be outlawed immediately for the better of our society. As for the government a bob dylan song says "everybodys gotta serve some one" go figure who the government serves.


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Anonymous #14
[quote]There are billions of people on this planet. The world does not revolve around the united states, moron. I hope terrorists crash their collective cocks into your asshole. [/quote]


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687512 - 07/05/03 06:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

silversoul7 writes:

Television starts to become more commonplace in a time in history when the federal government is starting to expand its power, and it continues to expand from there on out.

In the United States, the federal government started to expand its power pretty early on, but the biggest expansion was Roosevelt's "New Deal" in the depression. There was no TV then. The next quantum leap in federal government intrusiveness came with Johnson's "Great Society". It is true that television sets were pretty widespread by then.

pinky



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Anonymous

Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: trev]
    #1687625 - 07/05/03 09:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes but in a less sinister way its simply the corporations lulling us into a society that needs to spend to be happy and accepted (ever notice how happy people in car ads are) this should be outlawed immediately for the better of our society. As for the government a bob dylan song says "everybodys gotta serve some one" go figure who the government serves.

hahahaha.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687693 - 07/05/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think that many people heralded the intoduction of TV as a massive change for mankind. People had visions of it being used as a learning tool that could be used to educate the masses. Bucky Fuller imagined people being able to learn about anything they wanted from their home.
Look at what it's become though, hardly anything but mindless dreck that's used as filler in between adverts.


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineMaynardIsGod
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: Phred]
    #1687707 - 07/05/03 11:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, and we *almost* saw redemption with that great seer Reagan. When you look at the political spectrum it looks to me like the right-wingers are the ones upholding our individual freedoms. ha. The New Deal helped us out of the Depression, whatever any right-wing think tank says. It's all about Occam's Razor, government help in creating jobs, or the market just... fixed itself. PUH-LEEEZ.

But anyway, has anyone ever watched the original Rollerball? Great movie, and it shows how rampant corporatism can create a basically Uber-Fascist society. The masses are controlled by the game, it's pretty interesting for a cheap ass cult movie.


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"But we create human nature. Men are infinitely malleable." - George Orwell, 1984.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: MaynardIsGod]
    #1687902 - 07/05/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

When you look at the political spectrum it looks to me like the right-wingers are the ones upholding our individual freedoms.



Certainly not lately(PATRIOT Act, TIPS, etc).  Also, it's the "right-wingers" who oppose gay marriage, flag-burning, separation of church and state, abortion, etc.  Of course, not all right-wingers think this way, which is really my point.  It's too complex to think of in terms of left and right.  Under the Republicans, man oppresses man, while under the Democrats it's the other way around. :wink:

PS: Don't get too caught up in Reagan-worship.  He expanded federal government more than you think.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687917 - 07/05/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

no TV during the new deal, but there was national radio.

regardless, a strong fed isn't really tranceable to a lack of individual rights - it was the goddamn 50's.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Anonymous

Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687934 - 07/05/03 01:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i think that the fundemental difference between the dems and the republicans really is based on their economic views, and that the other differences spring from that.

the republicans favor less taxation and more economic freedom than the democrats, making them the party of choice for people with alot of money. whites, old people, and people with a long chain of ancestors in the country (read: northwestern europeans from earlier immigrations) tend to have more money than younger, non-white, more recent immigrants. they also tend to have a greater concern for "traditional" and "family" values. so the republican party becomes not just the party of the wealthy, but the traditional types as well.



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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: ]
    #1687939 - 07/05/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

wrong. if republicans care about "family" values, then why don't they support laws that give women reasonable maternity(sp?) leave, as do may european countries? (in sweden the father can take paternity leave and can't be fired!) the answer is that "business" values are diametrically opposed to "family" values. Mr burns doesn't have a family.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Anonymous

Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: Malachi]
    #1687949 - 07/05/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

well... republicans are, as a said, tied more closely to money and business, and only secondarily to 'traditional family values' and the like. when there is a conflict of interest between the two (as is the case with the issue of maternity leave, the economic interests win out over the family values interests.

what i'm saying is that the republican party is fundamentally the party of the economic interests of those with wealth. as the party of the wealthy, it then becomes also the party of the social interests of those with wealth as well. wealth in our country is more highly concentrated in whites, old people, and folks who's families have been in the country for a long time. these people are also the ones who generally have a greater concern for 'traditional' values. they use the state to legislate and enforce their morality.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: ]
    #1687960 - 07/05/03 02:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

why would the social interests be different? you seem to be saying that rich people are the reason for conservative social ills (drugs, gayness, freedom of speech, etc), but I don't see that as the case. 'wealthy' people make up a very small portion of any party (as there are quite few to go around), and generally it seems that they lead extragavent untraditional lifestyles. It's all the low self esteem wannabes that make republicans what they are - everyone thinks they could be rich too, but since they aren't, they'll settle for social control.



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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Anonymous

Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: Malachi]
    #1687966 - 07/05/03 02:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i have a feeling that you have no idea what the fuck i'm saying but are disagreeing just because you percieve me as in some way defending the republican party, which i'm not.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: ]
    #1688004 - 07/05/03 02:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

nope, I'm saying that richness and conservative socal values don't corellate.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: Malachi]
    #1688018 - 07/05/03 02:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Both parties are composed of a number of groups(more so with the Democrats, but still true of the Republicans). The Republicans are made up of wealthy capitalists, the religious right, hawks(I would say "warmongers", but I'm settling here for a slightly less loaded term), gun owners, and libertarians who don't want to waste their vote on a libertarian candidate(they're a dying breed of Republican). The Dems are made up of labor unions, ethnic and religious minorities, public school teachers, and civil libertarians(not to be confused with other libertarians).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1688825 - 07/05/03 10:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

My last mush trip made me think some very wierd things about "TV". I can't really explain it well, to myself even, but really I came to the conclusion that TV controlled everything.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: barfightlard]
    #1688831 - 07/05/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"The fact that TV is a source not actively or critically attended to was made dramatically evident in the late 1960s by an experiment that rocked the world of political and product advertising and forever changed the ways in which the television medium would be used. The results of the experiment still reverberate through the industry long after its somewhat primitive methods have been perfected.

"In November 1969, a researcher named Herbert Krugman, who later became manager of public-opinion research at General Electric headquarters in Connecticut, decided to try to discover what goes on physiologically in the brain of a person watching TV. He elicited the co-operation of a twenty-two-year-old secretary and taped a single electrode to the back of her head. The wire from this electrode connected to a Grass Model 7 Polygraph, which in turn interfaced with a Honeywell 7600 computer and a CAT 400B computer.

"Flicking on the TV, Krugman began monitoring the brain-waves of the subject What he found through repeated trials was that within about thirty seconds, the brain-waves switched from predominantly beta waves, indicating alert and conscious attention, to predominantly alpha waves, indicating an unfocused, receptive lack of attention: the state of aimless fantasy and daydreaming below the threshold of consciousness. When Krugman's subject turned to reading through a magazine, beta waves reappeared, indicating that conscious and alert attentiveness had replaced the daydreaming state.

"What surprised Krugman, who had set out to test some McLuhanesque hypotheses about the nature of TV-viewing, was how rapidly the alpha-state emerged. Further research revealed that the brain's left hemisphere, which processes information logically and analytically, tunes out while the person is watching TV. This tuning-out allows the right hemisphere of the brain, which processes information emotionally and noncritically, to function unimpeded. 'It appears,' wrote Krugman in a report of his findings, 'that the mode of response to television is more or less constant and very different from the response to print. That is, the basic electrical response of the brain is clearly to the medium and not to content difference.... [Television is] a communication medium that effortlessly transmits huge quantities of information not thought about at the time of exposure.'

"Soon, dozens of agencies were engaged in their own research into the television-brain phenomenon and its implications. The findings led to a complete overhaul in the theories, techniques, and practices that had structured the advertising industry and, to an extent, the entire television industry. The key phrase in Krugman's findings was that TV transmits 'information not thought about at the time of exposure.'" [p.p. 69-70]

"As Herbert Krugman noted in the research that transformed the industry, we do not consciously or rationally attend to the material resonating with our unconscious depths at the time of transmission. Later, however, when we encounter a store display, or a real-life situation like one in an ad, or a name on a ballot that conjures up our television experience of the candidate, a wealth of associations is triggered. Schwartz explains: 'The function of a display in the store is to recall the consumer's experience of the product in the commercial.... You don't ask for a product: The product asks for you! That is, a person's recall of a commercial is evoked by the product itself, visible on a shelf or island display, interacting with the stored data in his brain.' Just as in Julian Jaynes's ancient cultures, where the internally heard speech of the gods was prompted by props like the corpse of a chieftain or a statue, so, too, our internalized media echoes are triggered by products, props, or situations in the environment.

"As real-life experience is increasingly replaced by the mediated 'experience' of television-viewing, it becomes easy for politicians and market-researchers of all sorts to rely on a base of mediated mass experience that can be evoked by appropriate triggers. The TV 'world' becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: the mass mind takes shape, its participants acting according to media-derived impulses and believing them to be their own personal volition arising out of their own desires and needs. In such a situation, whoever controls the screen controls the future, the past, and the present." [p. 82, Joyce Nelson, THE PERFICT MACHINE; New Society Pub., 1992, 800-253-3605; ISBN 0-86571-235-2 ]


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OfflineMaynardIsGod
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: silversoul7]
    #1689994 - 07/06/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

=) It was sarcasm. Believe me, I would only use Reagan and seer in the same sentence, sarcastically.


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"But we create human nature. Men are infinitely malleable." - George Orwell, 1984.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Television and Big Brother [Re: MaynardIsGod]
    #1690008 - 07/06/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Good. It's hard to tell sometimes because so many people see Reagan as God.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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