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Offlinekrypto2000
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Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after?
    #16850234 - 09/15/12 07:29 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Our tap water is not so good so I have been using distilled, but I'm out. It's also a little easier anyway. So is there any problem with this, is the water necessary to activate enzymes or something in the process? Thanks.

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: krypto2000]
    #16850239 - 09/15/12 07:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes you can. I'm pretty sure distilled water is okay, but I get sterile water from my gf who is a CNA and has access to plenty of it.

You can also PC water in a jar for 15 min at 15 psi and that will sterilize it also(water that is)

For pasteurizing dry substrate it may be easiest to use oven bags and your oven, or you can load it into jars and use your PC to maintain 150 degree temps for an hour to pasteurize that way.

Just bring to field capacity when everything is cooled down


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850243 - 09/15/12 07:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's not recommended.

A lot of spores are pretty heat resistant unless you hydrate them first.

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #16850244 - 09/15/12 07:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Depends what you use


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850247 - 09/15/12 07:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Depends what you use




Dry is dry and unless the spores are hydrated some will still be resistant to heat.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850249 - 09/15/12 07:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have been using my pressure cooker with a big myco bag. Not pressure cooking though, I don't know what psi would be appropriate, but filling it with water and getting the water up to 165-180 and just leave it for 5-6h. It's been working pretty well so far though.

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #16850255 - 09/15/12 07:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:
Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Depends what you use




Dry is dry and unless the spores are hydrated some will still be resistant to heat.





If its coir it wont be n issue.

If its aged manure it may be.

Like I said it depends what he's using to determine what microorganisms are present.

Dry pasteurization works, just not as effective across the board for pasteurization of all different types of substrates.

It works for manure and coir just fine.

Compost would be another story


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850259 - 09/15/12 07:49 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:
Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Depends what you use




Dry is dry and unless the spores are hydrated some will still be resistant to heat.





If its coir it wont be n issue.

If its aged manure it may be.

Like I said it depends what he's using to determine what microorganisms are present.

Dry pasteurization works, just not as effective across the board for pasteurization of all different types of substrates.

It works for manure and coir just fine.

Compost would be another story




That only works with coir because it's difficult for mold spores to germinate on it to begin with. The pasteurization makes the coir more easily digestible for the mycelium.

Try improper pasteurization with manure and you won't be as lucky as you are with coir.

Pasteurization of bulk substrates is done to kill off mold spores so that your mycelium can get well established.

PS: Compost isn't an ideal substrate for P. Cubensis either as it is a primary decomposer not a secondary decomposer.

Edited by NewfoundFreedom (09/15/12 07:50 AM)

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #16850283 - 09/15/12 08:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:


Pasteurization of bulk substrates is done to kill off mold spores so that your mycelium can get well established.

PS: Compost isn't an ideal substrate for P. Cubensis either as it is a primary decomposer not a secondary decomposer.





No


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850321 - 09/15/12 08:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:


Pasteurization of bulk substrates is done to kill off mold spores so that your mycelium can get well established.

PS: Compost isn't an ideal substrate for P. Cubensis either as it is a primary decomposer not a secondary decomposer.





No




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
As shroomzey correctly said in his first post, it's not about bacteria, good or bad.  Pasteurization of bulk substrates is not for the same purpose as pasteurization of milk.  With bulk substrates, it's just to kill off the mold spores, to give our mushroom mycelium a chance to get a foothold on the substrate.

Bacteria is generally not a contaminant of bulk substrates, and many species won't fruit at all if there is no bacteria present.
RR




Quote:

agar said:
An well pasteurized substrate, is alive with non-competitive (keyword) micro-organisms that do not interfere with mycelium colonization of that substrate, & will later serve as optimal nutrients for mycelium.

Those same non-competitive microbes also defend their turf, in~so~far as they themselves will overtake & digest competitive mold SPORES that they come in contact with.

Consequently, those beneficial microbes (in~so~far as they don't compete with mycelium & will serve as a nutrient source, for mycelium)serve as a quasi-defense mechanism against COMPETITIVE SPORES that come in contact with a pasteurized substrate.

Conversely, a fully sterilized substrate does not have that quasi-defense mechanism against COMPETITIVE SPORES.

Meaning, when a fully sterilized substrate, is exposed to open unfiltered air, COMPETITIVE spores have a far better chance of germinating & establishing themselves, on/within a sterilized substrate.

Once a competitive mold spore has germinated in a substrate, it simply grows to the degree it becomes a visible infection on the substrate. Resulting in ugly contamination & poor mushroom fruit harvests from an infected substrate.

I think you may misunderstand the term "beneficial microbes", as used in this instance.

In the composting process, beneficial microbes convert substances toxic to mushroom mycelium, into non-toxic substances, that mushroom mycelium can/will digest as nutrients.

Thereafter, those same beneficial microbes serve as another source of optimal nutrients for mushroom mycelium.

That is why they are deemed "beneficial".




Edited by NewfoundFreedom (09/15/12 08:23 AM)

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #16850481 - 09/15/12 09:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Not what you said previosely. The second post yes


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Invisiblebasqueshaman
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16850882 - 09/15/12 11:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well distilled water is lacking in minerals.

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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #16851018 - 09/15/12 11:47 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

How is that not what I said?


Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:
Pasteurization of bulk substrates is done to kill off mold spores so that your mycelium can get well established.

PS: Compost isn't an ideal substrate for P. Cubensis either as it is a primary decomposer not a secondary decomposer.





Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
As shroomzey correctly said in his first post, it's not about bacteria, good or bad.  Pasteurization of bulk substrates is not for the same purpose as pasteurization of milk.  With bulk substrates, it's just to kill off the mold spores, to give our mushroom mycelium a chance to get a foothold on the substrate.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Can you pasturize manure dry and add sterile water after? [Re: basqueshaman]
    #16851024 - 09/15/12 11:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Sure it is, but doesn't the manure provide plenty of nutrients as is? My water might be great, but until I know I don't want to risk it. I don't drink it.

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