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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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The killing of wolves in the wild...
    #16846500 - 09/14/12 01:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What do you all think about it? I'm not talking about protecting one's self, family, pets, or livestock, but how do you all feel about the killing of wolves for sport? I personally think it's pretty fucked up :thumbdown: Think about it. First and foremost they don't have any real food value to us, and we no longer need their pelts to survive. Plus, these majestic canids are the creatures from which descended the dogs many of us love as a part of out family. In that regard I couldn't bring myself to kill such an amazing animal.

Thoughts?


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OfflineOasis182
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #16846526 - 09/14/12 01:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What you said pretty much applies to all animals, which is why I'm a vegetarian.  If we can sustain our lives (sometimes in a healthier manner) without murdering animals then why don't we?  That's really the bottom line as I see it.  People tend to disagree though :P

SAVE THE WOLVES!  And all the other animals while you're at it.

What makes a wolf any more amazing than an Elk or a deer?  Have you seen them in person?  Very majestic animals. 

Edited by Oasis182 (09/14/12 01:26 PM)

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Oasis182]
    #16846543 - 09/14/12 01:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Im a hunter but I disagree 100% with practice of killing wolves especially if they are an endangered species of wolf.

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Gotlib]
    #16846553 - 09/14/12 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The only people who should be allowed to kill animals you can't eat are the Indigenous Americans.
For regular white people small game and large grass eaters are quite sufficient with a license only of course.

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Offlinesnow desert115
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16846586 - 09/14/12 01:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i know what your saying i like to just shoot targets my family tryed to git me inro wild boar hunting u need to train dogs to chase them i thought it was enof just to whatch it when it came by, it ran up and stoped untill it saw me and started galloping off it was awsome beautiful animal hudge i am surprised a dog will take it on

Edited by snow desert115 (09/14/12 01:43 PM)

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: snow desert115]
    #16846597 - 09/14/12 01:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

when you got a high powered rifle in your hand their is nothing you cant take on

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OnlineNifflerz
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Gotlib]
    #16848263 - 09/14/12 07:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

At one point didn't wolves roam the entire country as their range? Now they're completely gone from most states. So yeah, I think it's insane that we still kill them.


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16848356 - 09/14/12 08:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think it's absolutely terrible. We watched a brief clip of it in my ethics class. People go up in helicopters in AK, fly around looking for them, get down low, and just blast em away. The footage was awful. Shotgun blasts from a distance so the poor things would get torn up all over their bodies, fall down, try to run, and they really couldn't. The guys would just keep going until it died, and the end of the video pans to the hunter's face and he's got this big fucking grin on his face.
you kidding me man?
:kingcrankey:
People can be such shit sometimes.


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OnlineNifflerz
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16848667 - 09/14/12 09:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. I'm all for people who hunt and actually consume (and not waste an ounce) their kill -- and even then I would never do it, but I can deal with it.

But the whole killing for fun/sport and being proud of yourself when the only thing you take from an animal (for example) is its fucking antlers -- how fucking retarded.


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Offlinecoorslight
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16851995 - 09/15/12 02:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I believe it should be against the law to hunt or trap wolves for fur 
And I'm a hunter too.


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16857418 - 09/16/12 04:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. I'm all for people who hunt and actually consume (and not waste an ounce) their kill -- and even then I would never do it, but I can deal with it.

But the whole killing for fun/sport and being proud of yourself when the only thing you take from an animal (for example) is its fucking antlers -- how fucking retarded.



doesn't make sense to me.
Shit, when I was younger, I killed 2 rabbits and a squirrel with my pellet gun. Even then, I felt really bad afterward. Why I did it again I simply can't answer, maybe youthful idiocy, I don't know. But to this day I truly and genuinely still feel awful about doing that and have not intentionally killed another animal since. The fact that I sensed something about it was not "right" at 11 fucking years old is what confuses me most about hunters who don't hunt to eat/utilize the animal and just do it for the thrill/pelt/whatever. How can they repeatedly do it? Especially the wolf hunting, I mean here's that vid I was talking about in my earlier post... I didn't even watch it again but know it's the right one from a few screen shots. How could someone voluntary do that and ENJOY it?


And I'm not trying to come off as being better than these people because let's face it, I'm not a vegetarian, I eat meat, and as such, support the business of killing other animals. But to do it for fun? or for "sport?" I don't get it.


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Offlineduff monkey
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857451 - 09/16/12 04:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


And I'm not trying to come off as being better than these people because let's face it, I'm not a vegetarian, I eat meat, and as such, support the business of killing other animals. But to do it for fun? or for "sport?" I don't get it.




It has to do with the industry and how it promotes its products. They encourage people to sport kill as sort of a tribal bonding type experience. I don't have a problem with people that hunt for food.

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: duff monkey] * 1
    #16857707 - 09/16/12 05:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ugh, so much fail in this thread.

Wolves need to be hunted in the wild to limit their populations just like deer or other animals. Humans have spread out over many areas that were once wild. The area that is now wild is much smaller and the populations that these tracts of land is much smaller than it once was. When populations of certain animals get out of hand it hurts the whole ecosystem and humans since wild animals will venture into human areas and fuck shit up. Not to mention wolf packs need a certain amount of territory and when their territories overlap they actually kill each other. So based on the limited space from natural causes, pack territory, and human encroachment the environment can only support so many wolves. As a result hunting wolves to control population is 100% a good thing for the ecosystems, wolves, and humans. The best way to hunt wolves is set up a lottery system and let hunters go out or sport. Wolves in my state were reintroduced about twenty years ago and now their populations are stable. Hunters are able to go out and hunt wolves if they have a permit. The permits are limited so as to maintain a baseline population of wolves. They are no longer listed on the endangered species list either.

Here is a link to some real info:

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/wolves/?getPage=161



--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
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Edited by SlashOZ (09/16/12 05:06 PM)

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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857836 - 09/16/12 05:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think everyone here knows that, it's the way they go about doing it that is shitty.
And I also feel it kind of shifted to  general topic of hunters who only kill for fun/sport.


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857853 - 09/16/12 05:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Absent Minded said:
I think everyone here knows that, it's the way they go about doing it that is shitty.
And I also feel it kind of shifted to  general topic of hunters who only kill for fun/sport.




Its the way they go about it? Explain.

Killing for fun is fine because these types of hunts are needed for population control.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857878 - 09/16/12 05:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

that's true, you've got a sport.
What I mean by the way they go about it is flying around in choppers and spraying the things with shotguns from a good distance away, and repeatedly at that.


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857880 - 09/16/12 05:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

got a point*


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857889 - 09/16/12 05:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Absent Minded said:
that's true, you've got a sport.
What I mean by the way they go about it is flying around in choppers and spraying the things with shotguns from a good distance away, and repeatedly at that.




They don't allow areal hunting from helicopters in my state.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857900 - 09/16/12 05:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

they do up in AK, that's where that video is from.


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16857930 - 09/16/12 05:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Absent Minded said:
they do up in AK, that's where that video is from.




The wolf population in Alaska is not really in danger.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wolf.main


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OnlineNifflerz
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #16860150 - 09/17/12 12:31 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Ugh, so much fail in this thread.





You're the only fail I see in this thread, dip shit. Control the population? Well why don't we start offing motherfuckers in China & Japan then to control their "population" if this is the logic?

"Control the population". Lmao. The fuck outta here. If you're gonna use them for food, fine. But "control the population"??? Fuck the fuck off. I'm no PETA motherfucker, but for fuck's sake, those damn animals have as much right to be around as we do.


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OnlineNifflerz
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #16860170 - 09/17/12 12:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Killing for fun is fine because these types of hunts are needed for population control.




Such a fucking retarded statement. So when your sister starts pumping out too many kids, can we go ahead and off 1 or 2 for "population control"???

LAUGHING MY MOTHERFUCKING ASS OFF

:trololol:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Absent Minded]
    #16860682 - 09/17/12 03:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Absent Minded said:
I think it's absolutely terrible. We watched a brief clip of it in my ethics class. People go up in helicopters in AK, fly around looking for them, get down low, and just blast em away. The footage was awful. Shotgun blasts from a distance so the poor things would get torn up all over their bodies, fall down, try to run, and they really couldn't. The guys would just keep going until it died, and the end of the video pans to the hunter's face and he's got this big fucking grin on his face.
you kidding me man?
:kingcrankey:
People can be such shit sometimes.




those wolves were terrorists! hu rah!

but seriously wolves VERY rarely attack humans, i dont know what out beef is with them, some people just get a thrill from killing stuff. :\


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OnlineNifflerz
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Shins]
    #16860713 - 09/17/12 03:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Population control, bruh."



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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #16861060 - 09/17/12 07:54 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Killing for fun is fine because these types of hunts are needed for population control.



Killing another living creature for fun is never okay. That's some psychotic shit. Jeffery Dhamer killed animals for fun too. Population control my ass, it's assholes who still think they have to prove some illusion of mastery over nature while they hide behind they're guns.
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Absent Minded said:
they do up in AK, that's where that video is from.




The wolf population in Alaska is not really in danger.



Miss the point much? It's not a population issue in AK, it's the inhumane way they're killed by some pussies in a helicopter. Put those fuckfaces in the wild without they're precious shotgun and the bastards wouldn't stand a chance against a wolf.


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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16861067 - 09/17/12 07:56 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
"Population control, bruh."





Just gonna be the one to say it. If this guy was a wolf and was born without the ability to walk/run he would have been killed and eaten, probably by his own pack.


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz] * 1
    #16861945 - 09/17/12 11:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
At one point didn't wolves roam the entire country as their range? Now they're completely gone from most states. So yeah, I think it's insane that we still kill them.


yes they were in most states. and they were over hunted, before regulation by the branch of government referred to as "wildlife management" we have today. they're basically hired biologist assigned to keep track/ manage the herds (of any hunted animal) and issue certain amount of tags (which is required for the take of an animal) for a area/zone.

    may it be mule deer, bear, wild pigs, OR WOLVES. hunters not only practically fund national forest, but they are also a tool for the wildlife management. every area/habitat has its carrying capacity for certain species. if we were to stop hunting, deer herds would breed out of control and run out of forage and the whole species would starve. they should be teaching you all this in hunters ed. so its far from insane that we hunt.
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Absent Minded said:
they do up in AK, that's where that video is from.

The wolf population in Alaska is not really in danger.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wolf.main



:whathesaid: this is exactly correct. so the same rule i explained above applies to wolves in alaska.
Quote:

Butt-Head said:
The only people who should be allowed to kill animals you can't eat are the Indigenous Americans.
For regular white people small game and large grass eaters are quite sufficient with a license only of course.



this is not only extremely offensive, but extremely discriminative. this is america, founded by the europeans, shared by the europeans.

people have this myth like idea of the native americans as if they were great conservationist and when the white man came from europe they fucked the land up... yes euros did their share of fucking shit up, but the indians were known to move into an area, use up the land by farming the shit out of it. and when the ground would become useless from not improving the soil, they'd move on. so native indians aint so great.
Quote:

Niffla said:
"Population control, bruh."




seriously dude, i feel like im surrounded by PETA. these naive children must think that a wolf dies of old age with his loved ones.NO, THEY most likely get torn up by their own pack. same with deer, they usually die of being eaten by a predator (mountain lions, sometimes bears). id prefer to be shot and die quickly.

Edited by psilocybeMAN (09/17/12 11:47 AM)

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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16861979 - 09/17/12 11:44 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Ugh, so much fail in this thread.





You're the only fail I see in this thread, dip shit. Control the population? Well why don't we start offing motherfuckers in China & Japan then to control their "population" if this is the logic?

"Control the population". Lmao. The fuck outta here. If you're gonna use them for food, fine. But "control the population"??? Fuck the fuck off. I'm no PETA motherfucker, but for fuck's sake, those damn animals have as much right to be around as we do.




haha, your not the only fail i see in here, but your the biggest fail. what comes first to you? a human baby, or a baby fawn (baby deer)? as i explained to you in my post above, if we stopped "controlling population" or as i like to call it managing wildlife, they would as a result die off. one doe can shit out up to 40 deer. they would spread like rats and eventually run out of forage and ALL starve.

at one point yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man killed off the wolf in most states of USA. wolves next to mountain lions were a predator to deer. now that they are gone, we must take their place. learn your shit.

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16861992 - 09/17/12 11:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Ugh, so much fail in this thread.





You're the only fail I see in this thread, dip shit. Control the population? Well why don't we start offing motherfuckers in China & Japan then to control their "population" if this is the logic?

"Control the population". Lmao. The fuck outta here. If you're gonna use them for food, fine. But "control the population"??? Fuck the fuck off. I'm no PETA motherfucker, but for fuck's sake, those damn animals have as much right to be around as we do.




haha, your not the only fail i see in here, but your the biggest fail. what comes first to you? a human baby, or a baby fawn (baby deer)? as i explained to you in my post above, if we stopped "controlling population" or as i like to call it managing wildlife, they would as a result die off. one doe can shit out up to 40 deer. they would spread like rats and eventually run out of forage and ALL starve.

at one point yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man killed off the wolf in most states of USA. wolves next to mountain lions were a predator to deer. now that they are gone, we must take their place. learn your shit.



We're not talking about fucking deer. I hunt deer. Deer are useful for lots of shit, mainly awesome meat and sinew. Wolves have no nutritional or practical value like deer do, and they don't reproduce exponentially like deer either. Why is this so fucking hard for people to understand?


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16862014 - 09/17/12 11:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:amusedapplause: I completely agree.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16862039 - 09/17/12 11:55 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Ugh, so much fail in this thread.





You're the only fail I see in this thread, dip shit. Control the population? Well why don't we start offing motherfuckers in China & Japan then to control their "population" if this is the logic?

"Control the population". Lmao. The fuck outta here. If you're gonna use them for food, fine. But "control the population"??? Fuck the fuck off. I'm no PETA motherfucker, but for fuck's sake, those damn animals have as much right to be around as we do.




haha, your not the only fail i see in here, but your the biggest fail. what comes first to you? a human baby, or a baby fawn (baby deer)? as i explained to you in my post above, if we stopped "controlling population" or as i like to call it managing wildlife, they would as a result die off. one doe can shit out up to 40 deer. they would spread like rats and eventually run out of forage and ALL starve.

at one point yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man killed off the wolf in most states of USA. wolves next to mountain lions were a predator to deer. now that they are gone, we must take their place. learn your shit.



We're not talking about fucking deer. I hunt deer. Deer are useful for lots of shit, mainly awesome meat and sinew. Wolves have no nutritional or practical value like deer do, and they don't reproduce exponentially like deer either. Why is this so fucking hard for people to understand?



dude you have this idea that hunting is only okay if your eating te meat or if it can be useful to you. what YOU DONT understand that the same rule that applies to deer applies to wolves in alaska. they need to be controlled as any population of animals in the rest of USA. read my post explaining how the wildlife management branch of the Department of Fish and Game works. believe it or not killing a deer in california helps the herd as a whole. same thing applies to wolves. wolves in alaska are hungry in general. less wolves means more food for the remaining wolves. which helps that remaining population strive. the population needs to be kept at a certain level.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN] * 1
    #16862111 - 09/17/12 12:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

And what exactly do you think kept the population of these animals in check before we started tweaking everything? Nature did. Let nature do what it does. It's just like Americans to demand a say in every little aspect of everything. That balance you keep talking about existed at one time because our impact wasn't enough to throw it off.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16862202 - 09/17/12 12:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:

at one point yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man killed off the wolf in most states of USA. wolves next to mountain lions were a predator to deer. now that they are gone, we must take their place. learn your shit.



i already addressed this hippy. yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man altered nature forever(like killing off the wolf in california). now that the wolf is gone in california, we must replace the wolf and aid in killing off population that te wolf would otherwise be killing. we cant change this. we set nature off balance when man was ignorant. you cannot blame todays hunters for what our ignorant forefathers did.

same applies to alaskas wolves. caribou population has dropped and wolves are hungry. if there are too many wolves, then there is less food to go around. less wolves = more food to go around.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16862460 - 09/17/12 01:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:prettyflyforawhiteguy: Damn straight.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Junebug]
    #16862660 - 09/17/12 01:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own. Additionally, if decreasing herd size were really the objective, wouldn't birth control viaimmunocontraception make more sense?  This is a kinder, non-violent way to reduce births

Hunting also disrupts migration and hibernation patterns and destroys family units. For animals like wolves, who mate for life and live in close-knit family units, hunting can devastate entire communities. The stress that hunted animals suffer—caused by fear and the inescapable loud noises and other commotion that hunters create—also severely compromises their normal eating habits, making it hard for them to store the fat and energy that they need in order to survive the winter.

Quote:

Junebug said:
:prettyflyforawhiteguy: Damn straight.



And you, quit sucking this guy's cock and actually contribute to the thread or get the fuck out.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #16862695 - 09/17/12 02:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own. Additionally, if decreasing herd size were really the objective, wouldn't birth control viaimmunocontraception make more sense?  This is a kinder, non-violent way to reduce births

Hunting also disrupts migration and hibernation patterns and destroys family units. For animals like wolves, who mate for life and live in close-knit family units, hunting can devastate entire communities. The stress that hunted animals suffer—caused by fear and the inescapable loud noises and other commotion that hunters create—also severely compromises their normal eating habits, making it hard for them to store the fat and energy that they need in order to survive the winter.





a lot of people with Bachelors in Biology (people who work for our government in wildlife management) would disagree with you and even call you naive.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16862746 - 09/17/12 02:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own. Additionally, if decreasing herd size were really the objective, wouldn't birth control viaimmunocontraception make more sense?  This is a kinder, non-violent way to reduce births

Hunting also disrupts migration and hibernation patterns and destroys family units. For animals like wolves, who mate for life and live in close-knit family units, hunting can devastate entire communities. The stress that hunted animals suffer—caused by fear and the inescapable loud noises and other commotion that hunters create—also severely compromises their normal eating habits, making it hard for them to store the fat and energy that they need in order to survive the winter.





a lot of people with Bachelors in Biology (people who work for our government in wildlife management) would disagree with you and even call you naive.



This is all coming out of a 2009 Natural Resources Conservation textbook. I took several conservation class pertaining to wildlife and natural resources. I'm not just talking out of my ass here.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Gotlib]
    #16863117 - 09/17/12 03:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Butt-Head said:
The only people who should be allowed to kill animals you can't eat are the Indigenous Americans.
For regular white people small game and large grass eaters are quite sufficient with a license only of course.




How incredibly bigoted of you to place rights on people based on their race.  :thumbdown:

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #16863239 - 09/17/12 03:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i guess we can agree to disagree. as a hunter myself id never break up a family unit because i only hunt old bucks(as most hunters do).

let me understand though, you think we shouldnt "hunt" the traditional way and we should control populations with birth control? i dont think we have the resources for that. as i said earlier hunters provide most of the funding for national parks and forests in the USA. hunting is traditional and all animals do it. we are animals you know, just extremely intelligent/aware ones. its natural because we are part of the natural world. you think a mountain lion would think twice about taking a bite out of your ass? killing is natures way of life. hunters are conservationist who help the land.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN] * 1
    #16863290 - 09/17/12 03:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Like I said earlier, nature doesn't need help from us or our technologies. It would straighten itself out if we would just leave it alone. I believe we should do nothing.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16863384 - 09/17/12 03:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:facepalm: wtf!? what par tof we have altered natures balance forever. have you ever been to wisconsin? deer are fucking everywhere. they are almost considered vermin. they are responsable for more car accidents then you would believe. if we all of a sudden stopped hunting (which you could never successfully prohibit[like the drug war, remember when they tried to outlaw alcohol?][people would still hunt, just unregulated) deer would breed out of control, there wouldnt be enough food for the population, and they would starve. WE HAVE CHANGED THE CONTINENT OF NORTH AMERICA FOREVER!. maybe theoretically it would take hundreds maybe thousands of years for nature to fix what we have done (if it could, which i dont think it could). your ideology doesnt work. grow up, deer will die, whether it be me shooting them in the heart, or a mountain lion(s) eating it alive.

without hundreds of thousands of hunters who buy there $50 hunters & fishing licenses and animal tags for $30 each yearly, the national forests and parks and all its programs for helping wildlife would go broke. hunters and fisherman are responsable for most of the dfg's funding.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16863476 - 09/17/12 04:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

WE HAVE CHANGED THE CONTINENT OF NORTH AMERICA FOREVER!

That's just plain egotistical. Humans aren't hot shit like we tell ourselves we are and our impact would be all but forgotten by nature if we all just disappeared. Since you keep going back to deer for some reason, i'll keep going with that. Why not let wolf, bear, and mountain lion populations expand with no interference. They would certainly help control the deer population and bring it back to a manageable number. Plus with so may deer, there would be plenty of food to support predator populations. It would take time, yes, but the cycle would re-regulate itself.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16863568 - 09/17/12 04:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

your missing the point entirely. im not wasting anymore energy on this subject.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16863587 - 09/17/12 04:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:bye:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16863638 - 09/17/12 04:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:blowme:

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16863643 - 09/17/12 04:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
:blowme:



How much energy did you waste posting that?


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16863666 - 09/17/12 04:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

little to none. worth it. worthless hippy

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16863728 - 09/17/12 04:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:whereismiddleman:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16863762 - 09/17/12 04:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:awwhellno:

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16863977 - 09/17/12 05:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:

seriously dude, i feel like im surrounded by PETA. these naive children must think that a wolf dies of old age with his loved ones.NO, THEY most likely get torn up by their own pack. same with deer, they usually die of being eaten by a predator (mountain lions, sometimes bears). id prefer to be shot and die quickly.




Awesome logic, bruh. Old people, too. Man they get all old and shit and start falling for no reason, back all fucked up everyday -- if I were them I'd prefer to be shot and die quickly. Yeah. I say lets strap up and go to town on those mofo's...I mean it's for their own good.




Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:

haha, your not the only fail i see in here, but your the biggest fail. what comes first to you? a human baby, or a baby fawn (baby deer)? as i explained to you in my post above, if we stopped "controlling population" or as i like to call it managing wildlife, they would as a result die off. one doe can shit out up to 40 deer. they would spread like rats and eventually run out of forage and ALL starve.

at one point yes, there was a balance, but before regulation, man killed off the wolf in most states of USA. wolves next to mountain lions were a predator to deer. now that they are gone, we must take their place. learn your shit.




Who the fuck was talking about deer you minimally IQ'd tard of epic and biblical proportions? And I see how you point out the wolves in Alaska as justification for hunting all wolves. Fucking SMH at you reaching. What the fuck does that have to do with the rest then? What about the wolves in Montana & Wyoming? And while were switching the subject what about mountain lions and bears? Controlling the population? How many mountain lions do people actually cross paths with? Or oh yeah, maybe they're a danger to somebody's rooster. Solution? Off them.

Fuck off. I'm not fucking PETA and I have already supported hunting in this thread -- my beef is hunting for sport. IMO I think it's retarded. It's just my opinion. My "fail" comment was directed at the fuck tard who came in here calling people fails for having a differing opinion than him. And yeah, I agree that in certain cases, IE if the pop. numbers are ridiculously out of control, then it can be justified. But lets be honest. In most states (and I'm not talking about deer mofo) this is just the standard excuses to spin it and justify it so dudes can bust out their guns, drink some beer and shoot some shit. Do you think 99% of hunters, while they're about to take a wolf or a mountain lion, are thinking about the "reduction of population numbers" or "stabilizing the eco-system" when they're about to pull the trigger? Dude.

Here's what they're thinking about:



"YAY MOTHERFUCKERS DONE GOT ME ANOTHA TROPHY FOR MY LIVING ROOM."


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16864004 - 09/17/12 05:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

look, i have no tie to respond right now, i will later. but people keep getting confused about why i am bringing up deer. i was merely using deer as an example. the same rule applies to all species that are hunted today in North america.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16864100 - 09/17/12 05:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own.




Yeah, it is funny isn't it? I mean the first mammals came about something like 65 million years ago. I think they managed fine, don't you? Then we come along and it's advantageous to the world for us to "control the populations".

:wellthatsweird:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16864107 - 09/17/12 05:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
little to none. worth it. worthless hippy




A hippy? On the shroomery forum?

:shrug:

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16864141 - 09/17/12 05:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
look, i have no tie to respond right now, i will later. but people keep getting confused about why i am bringing up deer. i was merely using deer as an example. the same rule applies to all species that are hunted today in North america.




That's the point. Why are you using deer as an example? They are totally different situations/arguments. Deer are EVERYWHERE. And in huge numbers. Wolves on the other hand?

Quote:

The gray wolf was once the world's most widely distributed mammal, after humans and lions, living throughout the northern hemisphere north of 15°N latitude in North America and 12°N in India. Deliberate human persecution has reduced the species' range to about one third, due to livestock predation and fear over attacks on humans. The species is now extinct in much of Western Europe, in Mexico and much of the USA.




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Edited by Nifflerz (09/17/12 05:58 PM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16864171 - 09/17/12 06:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own.




Yeah, it is funny isn't it? I mean the first mammals came about something like 65 million years ago. I think they managed fine, don't you? Then we come along and it's advantageous to the world for us to "control the populations".

:wellthatsweird:



My thoughts exactly.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #16864323 - 09/17/12 06:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I know that it was illegal to hunt them for some time, due to their population dwindling.  Recently, in a few areas, this ban was lifted for the first time in as many as 20 years.  Wolves in these select areas have grown exponentially and are now killing off local populations of other animals - basically acting like locusts and decimating whole ecosystems.  Some of the wolves are wandering into the city, attacking domestic livestock and pets, even getting close to areas where children play.
In order to keep their population in check they offer limiting licenses to kill wolves.  Government agencies are too hard pressed to trap and exterminate these animals, so it hunting rights were opened to private citizens in moderation.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16864828 - 09/17/12 07:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Hunting is not needed to control the numbers; the billions-years old system works fine on its own.




Yeah, it is funny isn't it? I mean the first mammals came about something like 65 million years ago. I think they managed fine, don't you? Then we come along and it's advantageous to the world for us to "control the populations".

:wellthatsweird:



if your implying that we dont have an effect of wildlife id have to say your mistaken(you too guru). and nobody is talking about the world, im talking about USA. dfg.ca.gov has more information on why hunting is necessary, go check it out.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16864848 - 09/17/12 07:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Panick said:
I know that it was illegal to hunt them for some time, due to their population dwindling.  Recently, in a few areas, this ban was lifted for the first time in as many as 20 years.  Wolves in these select areas have grown exponentially and are now killing off local populations of other animals - basically acting like locusts and decimating whole ecosystems.  Some of the wolves are wandering into the city, attacking domestic livestock and pets, even getting close to areas where children play.
In order to keep their population in check they offer limiting licenses to kill wolves.  Government agencies are too hard pressed to trap and exterminate these animals, so it hunting rights were opened to private citizens in moderation.



this guy knows wat hes talking about wen it comes to wolves.

TO NIFFLA AND GURUFAGGOT
i used deer as an example because they are hunted for mostly the same reason. for the adequate distribution of food/forage for wolves and/or deer. too many wolves = LESS CARIBOU to go around. too many deer = less forage to go around. GET THE EQUATION and their similarity?

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16864962 - 09/17/12 07:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yaeah, just the other day a wolf snatched up several kids from the neighbor's yard :eek: It's all about the children! We should exterminate those fucking vermin, save the children!!!
:lolsy:

In all seriousness though, let's not kid ourselves. Hunting is a huge fucking cash cow for the government. Guns, ammo, licenses... the list goes on. It helps keep deer populations in check, but that's all we need it for. Wolves, like dogs, can have only have one liter of pups a year IN IDEAL CONDITIONS. Conditions are far less than ideal anywhere in the US except for AK, and even there they ought to be left alone. The whole state should be left alone before all of the wilderness in the US gets turned into a goddamned strip mall, but that's a different issue entirely.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865004 - 09/17/12 08:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

psilocybeMAN  i hope you realize that those "conservation" officers could very likely be bullshitting in order to justify their jobs.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Shins]
    #16865054 - 09/17/12 08:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
psilocybeMAN  i hope you realize that those "conservation" officers could very likely be bullshitting in order to justify their jobs.



It's a bunch of government organized "conservation work" of course it's a lie.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865067 - 09/17/12 08:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

bullshitting so they get to shoot stuff too.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Shins]
    #16865210 - 09/17/12 08:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Yaeah, just the other day a wolf snatched up several kids from the neighbor's yard :eek: It's all about the children! We should exterminate those fucking vermin, save the children!!!
:lolsy:

In all seriousness though, let's not kid ourselves. Hunting is a huge fucking cash cow for the government. Guns, ammo, licenses... the list goes on. It helps keep deer populations in check, but that's all we need it for. Wolves, like dogs, can have only have one liter of pups a year IN IDEAL CONDITIONS. Conditions are far less than ideal anywhere in the US except for AK, and even there they ought to be left alone. The whole state should be left alone before all of the wilderness in the US gets turned into a goddamned strip mall, but that's a different issue entirely.



IT ALSO KEEPS MANY OTHER SPECIES BESIDES DEER IN CHECK. LIKE COYOTES, HOGS, DUCKS, BEAR, RABBIT, THE LIST GOES ON
Quote:

Shins said:
psilocybeMAN  i hope you realize that those "conservation" officers could very likely be bullshitting in order to justify their jobs.




if by conservation officers you mean the wildlife management, they are professional biologist and they know what they are doing. there is plenty of evidence showing the necessity of hunting not only to our wildlife, but yes to our state and its programs for wildlife. enough conspiracy theories. they (dfg) hire fresh out of college wildlife biologist who put science first.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16865221 - 09/17/12 08:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Do you have any sources :Prisoner1:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Shins]
    #16865224 - 09/17/12 08:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Again, the actual percentage of hunters/organizations that promote hunting and actually give two shits about the eco-system and legitimately controlling the population is miniscule. Of course they'll bring up the shit in order to spin and justify it, but deep down fucking 98% of them do it because it's fun for them. That's it.

It's not some fucking crusade to "aid the eco-system".

Lmfao

edit: I wasn't directing that at you shins. I forgot to direct reply that one.


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Edited by Nifflerz (09/17/12 08:34 PM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865258 - 09/17/12 08:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Do you have any sources :Prisoner1:



any states department fish and game website has plenty of information. heres some other sources

Why hunting is important for population control reguarding deer


Why is hunting so important? wiki source on hunting in general.

if you want more, be more specific.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16865290 - 09/17/12 08:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Again, the actual percentage of hunters/organizations that promote hunting and actually give two shits about the eco-system and legitimately controlling the population is miniscule. Of course they'll bring up the shit in order to spin and justify it, but deep down fucking 98% of them do it because it's fun for them. That's it.

It's not some fucking crusade to "aid the eco-system".

Lmfao

edit: I wasn't directing that at you shins. I forgot to direct reply that one.




its instinctual. all of our ancestors required the skill, if oyu understand evolution by natural selection, you'd understand how tis trait has passed down. yes we hunters enjoy the hunt, should we not?

do you eat meat? id rather pay for my hunters license and take my family out and have family time. rather than some random person killing and cleaning my meat. while i dont hunt wolves myself, i understand that its important that they are hunted.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16865322 - 09/17/12 08:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Do you have any sources :Prisoner1:



any states department fish and game website has plenty of information. heres some other sources

Why hunting is important for population control reguarding deer


Why is hunting so important? wiki source on hunting in general.

if you want more, be more specific.



Wikipedia isn't a legitimate source and I don't need to hear anymore about deer. I want to see some empirical evidence from studies suggesting how hunting WOLVES is beneficial to them and their ecosystem. You said earlier that it keeps them from starving, but I think you're taking what you know about deer and applying it to other animal populations. Prove me wrong though, by all means. I need to see real sources based on real data though, that means something peer reviewed like a scientific or ecological journal.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865536 - 09/17/12 09:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No, the hunters most likely hunt for fun.  Under normal circumstances, they would not be allowed to hunt wolves.  It just happens that their interest in killing wolves matches up with the need to control the population, thus licenses are issued.
Conservation efforts to restore wolf populations have been a little too successful.  Breeding programs, cordoned areas of wilderness, artificial stocking of game animals, and game animals being restricted to smaller tracts of land (thus making them even easier prey) has lead to explosive population growth for wolves in some areas.  Yes, often times we are to blame because we intervened - which lifting the ban to hunt them in these areas is attempting to fix.  This situation was brought about by man.  Many of these wolves will starve, many will suffer from malnutrition and lowered immune system (spreading disease), and in the meantime will kill off and/or starve entire populations of other species.

Edited by Panick (09/17/12 09:20 PM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Panick]
    #16865593 - 09/17/12 09:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

How was this not brought about by man? And how is lifting the ban to allow hunting them an attempt at fixing it? That's the most nit-witted nonsense i've ever heard. We allowed hunting in the past to control populations: they went extinct. Let's allow that again for the same reason: what will happen this time? Hmmm... I wonder :rolleyes:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865711 - 09/17/12 09:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
How was this not brought about by man? And how is lifting the ban to allow hunting them an attempt at fixing it? That's the most nit-witted nonsense i've ever heard. We allowed hunting in the past to control populations: they went extinct. Let's allow that again for the same reason: what will happen this time? Hmmm... I wonder :rolleyes:



lol there was no regulation. no species has been hunted to extinction ever since regulation in north america.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16865736 - 09/17/12 09:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
How was this not brought about by man? And how is lifting the ban to allow hunting them an attempt at fixing it? That's the most nit-witted nonsense i've ever heard. We allowed hunting in the past to control populations: they went extinct. Let's allow that again for the same reason: what will happen this time? Hmmm... I wonder :rolleyes:



lol there was no regulation. no species has been hunted to extinction ever since regulation in north america.



We've still come pretty damn close. I'm not going to agree with the hunting of wolves for sport. It's just not gonna happen. Regulation or no regulation I think it's fucked up and disgusting.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865761 - 09/17/12 09:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
How was this not brought about by man? And how is lifting the ban to allow hunting them an attempt at fixing it? That's the most nit-witted nonsense i've ever heard. We allowed hunting in the past to control populations: they went extinct. Let's allow that again for the same reason: what will happen this time? Hmmm... I wonder :rolleyes:



lol there was no regulation. no species has been hunted to extinction ever since regulation in north america.



We've still come pretty damn close. I'm not going to agree with the hunting of wolves for sport. It's just not gonna happen. Regulation or no regulation I think it's fucked up and disgusting.



how do you feel about hunting coyotes? are you just against hunting predators? only prey animals should be hunted?

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16865790 - 09/17/12 10:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
How was this not brought about by man? And how is lifting the ban to allow hunting them an attempt at fixing it? That's the most nit-witted nonsense i've ever heard. We allowed hunting in the past to control populations: they went extinct. Let's allow that again for the same reason: what will happen this time? Hmmm... I wonder :rolleyes:



lol there was no regulation. no species has been hunted to extinction ever since regulation in north america.



We've still come pretty damn close. I'm not going to agree with the hunting of wolves for sport. It's just not gonna happen. Regulation or no regulation I think it's fucked up and disgusting.



how do you feel about hunting coyotes? are you just against hunting predators? only prey animals should be hunted?



The only animal that should be hunted is one that is directly threatening your life (like actually charging you, not just minding its own business in the same vicinity) and those that exist in large numbers and can be utilized for food and tools (deer, rabbit, squirrel, etc.)


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16865824 - 09/17/12 10:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:laugh2:

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: duff monkey]
    #16865830 - 09/17/12 10:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

duff monkey said:
Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
little to none. worth it. worthless hippy




A hippy? On the shroomery forum?

:shrug:



i know, cliche right?

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16865864 - 09/17/12 10:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
:laugh2:



What's hilarious about that? Go shoot a deer & fuck it's carcass.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16866729 - 09/18/12 02:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Lolololol

:highfive1:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16866751 - 09/18/12 02:19 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Lots of emotion and very few facts in this thread.

I'm not for the indiscriminate killing of animals, and I'm not sure how I personally feel about this issue.  But the idea that since there are seasons on wolves in some states that we'll wipe them out again is absurd.

Last season in Montana 166 wolves were killed which was short of their goal of 220. 

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/16/156829997/montana-makes-it-easier-to-hunt-wolves

Minnesota plans to harvest 400 wolves in their two seasons.  They currently have a population of 3,000 the largest in the lower 48.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/wolves/mgmt.html

Of course many states allow killing of a wolf that poses imminent danger to livestock or guard animals regardless of season.

*No need to bash each other, we're all animals and we're all in this together.

Edited by MrGumball (09/18/12 02:21 AM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: MrGumball]
    #16867427 - 09/18/12 08:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

All i've been saying this whole time is that we humans need to leave nature alone and stop trying to manipulate every aspect of it. We haven't changed this land permanently and we haven't done irreversible damage yet. If we just stop killing them and having "target numbers" and all that shit. It's a ploy to make money on the tags they sell and It's fucking asinine. Nature doesn't need our help. I have no problem killing deer and small game animals, I do it all the time. They're yummy, but I can't eat a wolf, and unless it's attacking me or my dog I don't have any reason whatsoever to take it's life.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16867934 - 09/18/12 10:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

1. Nature has a carrying capacity
2. That is altered by the encroachment of humans and our cities, roads, etc.
3. animal populations that exceed the new carrying capacities are bad for a few reasons. first, it hurts the animals because they end up starving to death. second, it hurts humans because animals will wonder into cities or farms, etc and start fucking shit up looking for food.
4. controlling animal populations through hunting is an effective way to control animal populations and prevent the bad things listed in point 3 from happening.
5. if you can't realize this very simple fact about the human impact on the natural areas of north america you are very close minded and should probably click the link i posted earlier and/or do some research into controlling animal populations through hunting.

Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.

and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

:ifyoucanawe:


--------------------
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Edited by SlashOZ (09/18/12 10:19 AM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #16867969 - 09/18/12 10:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Don't give the that shit dude. I have a bachelor's in recreation management. That included three classes based exclusively on wildlife and natural resource management. I did an entire research project on wolf populations in the US. And yes, I have lived in two states where wolves regularly encroach on human settlements. Those places are Boone, NC, home to the last remaining wild population of Red Wolves. The other is Ely, MN, home of the International Wold Center and thousands of wild Grey Wolves. When a wolf comes into either of these towns they don't put it down, they tranquillize it, tag it at relocate it to the wild. Like bears, if a creature that has already been removed from town comes back, then they may make the decision to kill it. That's not my point anyway. I've already said I have no thing against killing problem animals in human settlements. I'm done with this. I've repeated myself too many goddamned times already.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16868041 - 09/18/12 10:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Don't give the that shit dude. I have a bachelor's in recreation management. That included three classes based exclusively on wildlife and natural resource management. I did an entire research project on wolf populations in the US. And yes, I have lived in two states where wolves regularly encroach on human settlements. Those places are Boone, NC, home to the last remaining wild population of Red Wolves. The other is Ely, MN, home of the International Wold Center and thousands of wild Grey Wolves. When a wolf comes into either of these towns they don't put it down, they tranquillize it, tag it at relocate it to the wild. Like bears, if a creature that has already been removed from town comes back, then they may make the decision to kill it. That's not my point anyway. I've already said I have no thing against killing problem animals in human settlements. I'm done with this. I've repeated myself too many goddamned times already.




I don't think taking undergraduate courses qualifies you to tell people in other states how to live and manage their wildlife. I'm speaking based on my state's needs because *gasp* people that live here actually know what is going on here. I can tell you right now the situation for wolves here if vastly different than where you have lived. If you did any research worth its salt on wolves in the U.S. you'd know that the wolves in my area have reached the carrying capacity of the environment. Hunts have become necessary to avoid the evils of overpopulation of a huge predator such as the wolf. Further, hunting now is almost all related to population control and sport. The two go hand in hand. The fact that controlling animal populations can be achieved while people are entertaining themselves through hunting is not a bad thing or something evil. Most hunters go hunting because they enjoy being outdoors and the sport of tracking an animal while hiking and camping through the woods. The idea that wolf hunters are somehow bloodthirsty psychopaths as you have suggested in some of your posts is completely absurd. Also, the notion that all or even most wolf hunts happen from airplanes is absurd. My state actually decided against passing a law allowing ranchers and forest service officials to kill wolves on their own property from an airplane. It seems like most of the people in this thread that are anti-wolf hunting are taking a few examples of people hunting from airplanes in alaska and then generalizing that to everywhere else that wolves are hunted.


--------------------
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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16868077 - 09/18/12 10:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
1. Nature has a carrying capacity
2. That is altered by the encroachment of humans and our cities, roads, etc.
3. animal populations that exceed the new carrying capacities are bad for a few reasons. first, it hurts the animals because they end up starving to death. second, it hurts humans because animals will wonder into cities or farms, etc and start fucking shit up looking for food.
4. controlling animal populations through hunting is an effective way to control animal populations and prevent the bad things listed in point 3 from happening.
5. if you can't realize this very simple fact about the human impact on the natural areas of north america you are very close minded and should probably click the link i posted earlier and/or do some research into controlling animal populations through hunting.

Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.

and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

:ifyoucanawe:



you(guru) keep saying that nature (today) cold be left alone and work itself out. which we keep pointing out is not true. yes we are all being pretty repetitive. but i feel i should reiterate that there IS  a carrying capacity for hunted species in each area/zone. each zone has a certain number of tags issued based on the wildlife biologist findings and recorded history on what works. this system has proven to work and help wildlife. you seem to just not like the killing part, but killing is a norm in nature. your/our evolved human morals against killing have no place in nature. we are (hunters) the tool for wildlife management to keep wildlife populations healthy.

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16868104 - 09/18/12 10:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

killing is a norm in nature.

THEN WHY NOT LET NATURE DO THE KILLING???

For the tenth time, I don't have a problem with killing animals for resources. Wolves have no resource to offer us.

This is my view on it. It isn't going to change. End of story.


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16868118 - 09/18/12 11:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHER OVER HUNTED BEFORE REGULATION. and we are nature, so nature is still doing the killing.

now it just so happens we know what we're doing and it just so happens hunting is an american/human tradition that we cant help but love because of our genetics. hunting is needed + and it happens to be fun which = todays hunting.

*edit*: i see where your coming from as i dont personally hunt anything that looks like a dog, thats just me. i dont believe in prohibiting something based on the fact that it makes you(and im sure much more hippies :P ) sad. i trust in communal biology and if the people in that position say its needed, i trust them, because its been proven their system works.

Edited by psilocybeMAN (09/18/12 11:07 AM)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16868146 - 09/18/12 11:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHER OVER HUNTED BEFORE REGULATION. and we are nature, so nature is still doing the killing.

now it just so happens we know what we're doing and it just so happens hunting is an american/human tradition that we cant help but love because of our genetics. hunting is needed  and it happens to be fun which = todays hunting.

*edit*: i see where your coming from as i dont personally hunt anything that looks like a dog, thats just me. i dont believe in prohibiting something based on the fact that it makes you(and im sure much more hippies :P ) sad. i trust in communal biology and if the people in that position say its needed, i trust them, because its been proven their system works.



fine i'll go with that if it'll keep his thread from popping back up. it's fucking with my mood and I don't like being pissed off.


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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16868206 - 09/18/12 11:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

ok, i'm calmed down and i'm going to leave the discussion at this:

We have regulation that works TODAY. And while wolves may not be over hunted again for hundreds of years, our world and especially our country is becoming more developed and more focused on building human settlements. Some lands are protected now, but there's no way of telling what legislation will happen in the future, especially considering how bad we are hurting for natural resources. I think this generation needs to set the example and preserve the remaining wild lands and creatures in this country so that others can enjoy it years from now.


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16868251 - 09/18/12 11:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
ok, i'm calmed down and i'm going to leave the discussion at this:

We have regulation that works TODAY. And while wolves may not be over hunted again for hundreds of years, our world and especially our country is becoming more developed and more focused on building human settlements. Some lands are protected now, but there's no way of telling what legislation will happen in the future, especially considering how bad we are hurting for natural resources. I think this generation needs to set the example and preserve the remaining wild lands and creatures in this country so that others can enjoy it years from now.



i completely agree, and i pretty much thought thats what wildlife management was put in place for- for conservation and preservation.

i understand that the government can and has made mistakes, but in this rare occasion scientist (the biologist) are in charge and not some hillbilly. i see were your coming from man and i want the same things you want when it comes to preserving our lands. i just whole heartedly support hunting as i understand why its the best option economy wise and conservation wise. like i said earlier most of the funding that funds programs to preserve national forest and parks comes from hunting and fishing.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ] * 1
    #16868279 - 09/18/12 11:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.

and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

:ifyoucanawe:




i felt this was worthy of a quote.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16874443 - 09/19/12 11:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
:whereismiddleman:



I thought this was worthy of a quote.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16875867 - 09/19/12 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:lolsy:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
    #16880988 - 09/20/12 03:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: duff monkey]
    #16882379 - 09/20/12 07:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

this thread turned into a shit show.
but I will say I read all the posts in it.


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Beats
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sheekle: fuck peace love and unity
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16971042 - 10/05/12 10:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes Wolf population needs control. This is why we hunt in the first place. Too many wolves and not enough food for them. You either let them die of starvation, or harvest so many of them a year. It's all controlled.

I would rather have hunters (me) and wild life rangers harvest a portion of the population.


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Edited by downhome (10/05/12 10:53 AM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: downhome]
    #17003970 - 10/10/12 08:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The gray wolf that was reintroduced to the Yellowstone area has shown to be A keystone species, in my environmental conflict class wolves were the last topic we studied. If the wolves were reintroduced, why would we spend the time and money to return them just to hunt them? Without the grey wolf in particular, certain species run rampant destroying ecosystems and devastating other species in the process. The wolves are doing their job in their part of the ecosystem, if humans put pressure on then by hunting this could change for the worst.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Zerome]
    #17004159 - 10/10/12 09:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Zerome said:
The gray wolf that was reintroduced to the Yellowstone area has shown to be A keystone species, in my environmental conflict class wolves were the last topic we studied. If the wolves were reintroduced, why would we spend the time and money to return them just to hunt them? Without the grey wolf in particular, certain species run rampant destroying ecosystems and devastating other species in the process. The wolves are doing their job in their part of the ecosystem, if humans put pressure on then by hunting this could change for the worst.



Exactly :thumbup:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #17004312 - 10/10/12 10:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Just for any who doubt what I said, look up keystone species and see what happens when they are removed.. I am not some hillbilly who doesn't live in your state I'm a wildlife biology major at a prestigious school, it is my job to study things such as this.

With that said,  the grey wolf population is stable enough to establish a hunting season, and in most cases Hunters can't even find them to kill. This last season of hunting (according to my research) over 200 licenses were bought yet only had two recorded wolf kills. The parks and recreation, or other state jobs really do need that money that is generated from licenses. Add long as the wolf is notkilled out of season and not put on the predatory list (Wyoming) the numbers on wolf populations will be stable and sufficient to the ecosystems.

Thank you come again! :tongue2:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Zerome]
    #17004902 - 10/10/12 12:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly the only kind of wolf hunting I don't agree with is when they go out with helicopters and kill entire packs. Actually i'm just opposed to helicopter hunting in general, there is no honor or challenge in it.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #17055436 - 10/18/12 02:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)


Edited by psilocybeMAN (10/18/12 03:44 PM)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #17061429 - 10/19/12 01:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I guess I'm late to the party but here's my 2 cents.

People have a lot of emotion over this topic.  I am a city dweller, though I often go hiking and camping on National Forest land.  I don't have cattle or horses or pets that are being preyed upon by wolves.  I've never been in a really remote location and had a pack of wolves stare me down.  If there are lots of wolves in Idaho or Montana it doesn't really affect me.  I think that for a lot of people like me it makes sense to restore the balance of nature and let the wolves multiply and just be.

The main voices against allowing that to happen appear to be 1) hunters who want to shoot a wolf, 2) ranchers who live near wolves and feel that their livelihoods are being affected, and 3) hunters who want to shoot deer, elk, etc and feel that wolves are lowering their numbers too much.

1) To the hunters who want to be able to shoot or trap wolves I say FUCK YOU.  If your cock is that little that you need to kill a big majestic predator to feel proud of yourself then too bad.  That's just not a good enough reason to allow wolf hunting to happen.

2) I have very little sympathy for ranchers.  I have seen LOTS of public land that has been totally fucked up by overgrazing of cattle.  I just don't think that at this point in time we need to continue subsidizing the cattle industry by allowing them to graze on public lands.  This is the 21st century.  Wild, open land is at a minimum.  It is better used for other purposes than allowing business men to line their pockets by fattening up their cattle on public land, while the land gets degraded and these guys shoot every predator in sight.

3) Hunters are going to have to accept the reality that there may be fewer game animals around to harvest.  It sucks if you're a hunter, but too bad.  The large numbers of game animals that everyone is used to is an artificial situation created by eliminating the top predators from our ecosystems.  But public lands are for everyone to enjoy, not just hunters.  I believe that this day and age there are more people who would enjoy driving through a national forest and maybe seeing a wolf in the distance than there are people who want to hunt.  That's just how it is these days and the lands should be managed accordingly.  Hunters have to adjust and work a little harder to bag that deer.  Life goes on.

The reality is that the more that we try to "manage" wild lands the more we actually fuck things up.  Let nature restore its own balance.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: MushroomDogMan]
    #17064691 - 10/19/12 10:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The reality is that the more that we try to "manage" wild lands the more we actually fuck things up.  Let nature restore its own balance.



Yes! Thank you! Great post all around.


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #17076096 - 10/21/12 09:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

The reality is that the more that we try to "manage" wild lands the more we actually fuck things up.  Let nature restore its own balance.



Yes! Thank you! Great post all around.




:facepalm:

Why is there so much naivety regarding humans and nature? The idea that if we just stop killing wolves that nature will "solve itself" is ridiculous. We are constantly affecting nature with all of our roads, farms, cities, pollution, etc. Wolves are not a benign creature that causes no harm like a spotted owl. The idea that we can just ignore wolf populations and things will "work out" is wrong. The fact is our current policies are actually very effective. Hunters get to hunt, farmers get to protect their stock, and wolf populations are stable. To eliminate the hunting of wolves would be akin to saying we want to take this very moderate path of wolf management and distance ourselves from it and turn to a more radical approach of allowing wolf populations to increase far beyond the current carrying capacity of our natural lands (the harms of which have already been stated ad nauseum in this thread). Hunting from helicopters is not a great or necessary practice. However, to equate one form of hunting to wildlife management on the whole is to completely miss the point of wildlife management.


--------------------
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz] * 2
    #17119164 - 10/28/12 05:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Ugh, so much fail in this thread.





You're the only fail I see in this thread, dip shit. Control the population? Well why don't we start offing motherfuckers in China & Japan then to control their "population" if this is the logic?

"Control the population". Lmao. The fuck outta here. If you're gonna use them for food, fine. But "control the population"??? Fuck the fuck off. I'm no PETA motherfucker, but for fuck's sake, those damn animals have as much right to be around as we do.




I think your vehemence in your post suggests that you need to get in better touch with the actual situation of life and the world you live in.  The study of ecology and wildlife management is a beautiful one that highlights the evil and divinity running through the fabric of our world.  It's not about "rights."  We, humans, are capable of measuring, perceiving, and modeling population patterns.  We can see when problems in ecosystems occur, why they occur, and how they can be prevented.  By understanding these patterns, we can take action that minimizes the damage we do by occupying the earth and helps maintain the sacred balance of life.

This balance knows no "majesty" of wolves or deer or bacteria or humans.  It only knows that when living things get out of proportion they will die, and this is a cold reality that you can't escape.  Humans, with our advanced ability to see and communicate patterns, experience this balance on a different level.  We can take our own action to try and mimic the natural balance struck in nature, and in fact we are obligated to since our presence introduces its own imbalance.

I live in Minnesota where after years of Wolf protection the subsequent population growth they have finally grown to and beyond a stable size.  Their excessive presence is manifest by them spilling over into human areas, something the aren't naturally prone to anyway.  A season has been opened whereby a limited number of licenses are sold allowing people to hunt wolves.  Hunting isn't about killing only animals that aren't majestic, and if you've ever seen what a pack of wolves do to a deer then perhaps you'll think of them differently.  The hunting is instead about restoring balance to nature.


--------------------
"There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind.  In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived.  How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us?  Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Boozerguyzer]
    #17120873 - 10/28/12 09:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

it's fine if you are going to eat the animal or use it's pelt to the point of not crossing the line of greed. in oregon, wolves were recently shot for killing cattle. they were introduced in idaho, and migrated here to the imnaha wilderness and abroad. they have to come out of the high mountain designated wilderness area to hunt, especially in the winter months. the ranchers expect the wolves to stay away from their cattle, and that just isn't logical. the cattle completely took over their land. i suppose the only real answer at this point is to get rid of the cattle(ship off to texas) and restore the land by hiring the ranchers and their families to eradicate the noxious weed species that they have introduced over their years of shitty stewardship. i know that seems harsh and irrational but the ranchers and wolves can't get along. history has proven that, and the wolves deserve a place on this earth too, even if they aren't the wolves that were once native to eastern oregon. ranchers would also then be able to charge tourists to see their restored wolf habitat and open game hunt reserves. they still have to make money. there's also alot of gold over there that is now viable to mine that the value is so high.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 1
    #17122285 - 10/29/12 07:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
it's fine if you are going to eat the animal or use it's pelt to the point of not crossing the line of greed. in oregon, wolves were recently shot for killing cattle. they were introduced in idaho, and migrated here to the imnaha wilderness and abroad. they have to come out of the high mountain designated wilderness area to hunt, especially in the winter months. the ranchers expect the wolves to stay away from their cattle, and that just isn't logical. the cattle completely took over their land. i suppose the only real answer at this point is to get rid of the cattle(ship off to texas) and restore the land by hiring the ranchers and their families to eradicate the noxious weed species that they have introduced over their years of shitty stewardship. i know that seems harsh and irrational but the ranchers and wolves can't get along. history has proven that, and the wolves deserve a place on this earth too, even if they aren't the wolves that were once native to eastern oregon. ranchers would also then be able to charge tourists to see their restored wolf habitat and open game hunt reserves. they still have to make money. there's also alot of gold over there that is now viable to mine that the value is so high.




The number of wolves killed by ranchers or farmers is actually very small. Not exactly sure why you are getting all upset about this?


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17122641 - 10/29/12 09:08 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

it's not a small number if you look at the pack numbers and figure what it takes for a healthy pack to sustain itself.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #17122919 - 10/29/12 10:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
it's not a small number if you look at the pack numbers and figure what it takes for a healthy pack to sustain itself.




:facepalm:

Farmers and ranchers kill the wolves that kill their livestock. The ratio is pretty much 1:1 in my state. Wolves in my state have already hit their carrying capacity and need to be harvested in order to maintain a balance. In fact, the wolves in my state are doing so well they are roaming into Washington and your state Oregon. You're welcome.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17122963 - 10/29/12 10:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

clearly wolves and ranchers aren't ever going to get along, even though the ranchers could sacrifice to the wolves their sick and dying cattle by staking them to the well known bone piles on ranch and blm land that the ranchers have placed there. these bone piles are well known territorial stops for the wolves already. this could possibly condition wolves to go to the piles for food, but the instinct of chasing and animal would still be present. ranchers simply haven't been witty enough to outsmart the wolves without resorting to guns and traps.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 1
    #17122999 - 10/29/12 10:32 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
clearly wolves and ranchers aren't ever going to get along, even though the ranchers could sacrifice to the wolves their sick and dying cattle by staking them to the well known bone piles on ranch and blm land that the ranchers have placed there. these bone piles are well known territorial stops for the wolves already. this could possibly condition wolves to go to the piles for food, but the instinct of chasing and animal would still be present. ranchers simply haven't been witty enough to outsmart the wolves without resorting to guns and traps.




the sad part is that both sides (wolf lovers and wolf haters) have blown the numbers out of proportion when it comes to wolves and ranchers. this continues on this thread. i'll repeat, current wolf management is very effective.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17129485 - 10/30/12 09:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/27/2441520/second-wild-red-wolf-found-slain.html

That put a damper on my day :sad: It's okay though, since wolf conservation efforts are sooo fucking top notch right now :rolleyes:


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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #17129496 - 10/30/12 09:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/27/2441520/second-wild-red-wolf-found-slain.html

That put a damper on my day :sad: It's okay though, since wolf conservation efforts are sooo fucking top notch right now :rolleyes:




poaching does not = wildlife management.

:ifyoucanawe:


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17129501 - 10/30/12 09:31 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/27/2441520/second-wild-red-wolf-found-slain.html

That put a damper on my day :sad: It's okay though, since wolf conservation efforts are sooo fucking top notch right now :rolleyes:




poaching does not = wildlife management.

:ifyoucanawe:



Wildlife management is supposed to help prevent this shit from happening. There's only about a hundred of these things left. 100. That's it. Shit like this should not be happening, period.


--------------------
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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #17129537 - 10/30/12 09:40 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/27/2441520/second-wild-red-wolf-found-slain.html

That put a damper on my day :sad: It's okay though, since wolf conservation efforts are sooo fucking top notch right now :rolleyes:




poaching does not = wildlife management.

:ifyoucanawe:



Wildlife management is supposed to help prevent this shit from happening. There's only about a hundred of these things left. 100. That's it. Shit like this should not be happening, period.




So what is your suggestion? Take all the guns away for hire more forest service rangers so they can patrol every inch of wilderness where these wolves live?

remember, its already illegal to poach so making it illegal to kill wolves in my state (on the other side of the country) or banning helicopter shooting of wolves in alaska ain't gonna do anything to help wolves in N.C.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17129635 - 10/30/12 10:08 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You're really this nonchalant about a critically endangered species being killed off? It probably wasn't even poached on purpose. It was probably mistaken for a coyote, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was killed. I like the idea mentioned in the article. Ban night-hunting of coyotes.


--------------------
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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #17129867 - 10/30/12 11:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
You're really this nonchalant about a critically endangered species being killed off? It probably wasn't even poached on purpose. It was probably mistaken for a coyote, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was killed. I like the idea mentioned in the article. Ban night-hunting of coyotes.




I'm not nonchalant about it. I'm just pointing out that this killing of a wolf in N.C. has nothing to do with wolf killings in the rocky mountains or alaska or by helicopter or anything to do with wolf management practices. also, banning hunting at night just seems like a smart thing to do if not to save this species of wolf from accidental killing but also for safety reasons.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17129886 - 10/30/12 11:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
You're really this nonchalant about a critically endangered species being killed off? It probably wasn't even poached on purpose. It was probably mistaken for a coyote, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was killed. I like the idea mentioned in the article. Ban night-hunting of coyotes.




I'm not nonchalant about it. I'm just pointing out that this killing of a wolf in N.C. has nothing to do with wolf killings in the rocky mountains or alaska or by helicopter or anything to do with wolf management practices. also, banning hunting at night just seems like a smart thing to do if not to save this species of wolf from accidental killing but also for safety reasons.



I never suggested a correlation, but it DOES have something to do with management. This was preventable.


--------------------
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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #17129925 - 10/30/12 11:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
You're really this nonchalant about a critically endangered species being killed off? It probably wasn't even poached on purpose. It was probably mistaken for a coyote, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was killed. I like the idea mentioned in the article. Ban night-hunting of coyotes.




I'm not nonchalant about it. I'm just pointing out that this killing of a wolf in N.C. has nothing to do with wolf killings in the rocky mountains or alaska or by helicopter or anything to do with wolf management practices. also, banning hunting at night just seems like a smart thing to do if not to save this species of wolf from accidental killing but also for safety reasons.



I never suggested a correlation, but it DOES have something to do with management. This was preventable.




I'm not going to blame wildlife management for poaching unless it was a forest service ranger doing the poaching. This is almost like blaming cops for murders or theft imo. Sometimes you cannot stop illegal activity and harmful activity. Its a sad reality and lashing out at wildlife management isn't going to help. Maybe a more robust anti poaching campaign in the area is needed? I personally can't stand poachers because they ruin things for everyone else.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17129990 - 10/30/12 11:25 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't anti-poaching part of wildlife management?


--------------------
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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie] * 1
    #17130010 - 10/30/12 11:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GuruBushHippie said:
Isn't anti-poaching part of wildlife management?




Yeah, hopefully they find whoever shot this wolf illegally and prosecute them. That is about the extent of what they can do at this point. In the future they could raise awareness of why poaching is bad and hence illegal already. I'm not sure what magic wand you think law enforcement has but they don't have one. They can't just stop all crime from happening. Once again, think of the analogy of blaming the police for murder or theft.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17130162 - 10/30/12 12:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever dude. It's clear i've failed with this entire thread. I'm done.


--------------------
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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN] * 1
    #17130568 - 10/30/12 01:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Farticles.latimes.com%2F2012%2Fjan%2F04%2Flocal%2Fla-me-gs-wild-wolf-still-roaming-california-20120104&h=RAQFqQE3m&s=1

First wolf in California since thee 1920's! Looks like the wolf population is showing hope.





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OfflineGuruBushHippie
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #17232854 - 11/16/12 11:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)



I feel this is pertinent.


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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #17272822 - 11/24/12 09:05 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Wolves play a key ecological role in the ecosystem. Both sides agree. However, to all of the idiots saying that the wilderness is so damaged that hunters are needed: shut up and get your head out of your ass. Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking, as they need to expend more and more energy into getting food. (This generally only applies to animals that are the among largest in the ecosystem; if this ideology applied to rabbits, which breed hundreds, if not thousands, of times faster then elk, then we would have problems)To all those who claim that all hunting should be banned: shut up and get your head out of your ass, it is not going to happen, and that just gives them more money that would not go into protecting the wild areas (not that they're doing a good job anyways, but still, some cash is better than no cash). Shoot all of the deer, elk, small game, etc that you want but leave large predators alone. Wolves were hunted out in CA? REINTRODUCE THEM! Take them from another area with proposed hunting, and put them in CA. If the people are so eager to catch wolves, let them assist in the capture and reintroduction. The same thing should apply to damn Europe. I love wolves, and they deserve to be restored to at least part of the prior range.

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17274916 - 11/24/12 05:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
Wolves play a key ecological role in the ecosystem. Both sides agree. However, to all of the idiots saying that the wilderness is so damaged that hunters are needed: shut up and get your head out of your ass. Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking, as they need to expend more and more energy into getting food. (This generally only applies to animals that are the among largest in the ecosystem; if this ideology applied to rabbits, which breed hundreds, if not thousands, of times faster then elk, then we would have problems)To all those who claim that all hunting should be banned: shut up and get your head out of your ass, it is not going to happen, and that just gives them more money that would not go into protecting the wild areas (not that they're doing a good job anyways, but still, some cash is better than no cash). Shoot all of the deer, elk, small game, etc that you want but leave large predators alone. Wolves were hunted out in CA? REINTRODUCE THEM! Take them from another area with proposed hunting, and put them in CA. If the people are so eager to catch wolves, let them assist in the capture and reintroduction. The same thing should apply to damn Europe. I love wolves, and they deserve to be restored to at least part of the prior range.




You clearly don't understand that packs need a certain area in which to roam and that the current amount of wildlands have only a certain carrying capacity beyond which leads wolves to wander into developed areas as well as into conflict with each other. The wolf population in Idaho, for instance, is already stabilized at its carrying capacity. How is this known? Well millions of dollars are spent over years tracking packs and breeding pairs. Hunts are allowed in Idaho to cull the population back down to the current amount of wildlands carrying capacity. How are people unable to understand carrying capacity? You simply cannot have an unlimited number of wolves in one area and expect them to live peacefully. Historical numbers for wolf populations will never be reached because there simply is not that much wilderness left for them to roam.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Invisibleexplosiveoxygen
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Registered: 07/10/09
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17276678 - 11/25/12 12:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
Wolves play a key ecological role in the ecosystem. Both sides agree. However, to all of the idiots saying that the wilderness is so damaged that hunters are needed: shut up and get your head out of your ass. Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking, as they need to expend more and more energy into getting food. (This generally only applies to animals that are the among largest in the ecosystem; if this ideology applied to rabbits, which breed hundreds, if not thousands, of times faster then elk, then we would have problems)To all those who claim that all hunting should be banned: shut up and get your head out of your ass, it is not going to happen, and that just gives them more money that would not go into protecting the wild areas (not that they're doing a good job anyways, but still, some cash is better than no cash). Shoot all of the deer, elk, small game, etc that you want but leave large predators alone. Wolves were hunted out in CA? REINTRODUCE THEM! Take them from another area with proposed hunting, and put them in CA. If the people are so eager to catch wolves, let them assist in the capture and reintroduction. The same thing should apply to damn Europe. I love wolves, and they deserve to be restored to at least part of the prior range.




You clearly don't understand that packs need a certain area in which to roam and that the current amount of wildlands have only a certain carrying capacity beyond which leads wolves to wander into developed areas as well as into conflict with each other. The wolf population in Idaho, for instance, is already stabilized at its carrying capacity. How is this known? Well millions of dollars are spent over years tracking packs and breeding pairs. Hunts are allowed in Idaho to cull the population back down to the current amount of wildlands carrying capacity. How are people unable to understand carrying capacity? You simply cannot have an unlimited number of wolves in one area and expect them to live peacefully. Historical numbers for wolf populations will never be reached because there simply is not that much wilderness left for them to roam.




So what happens is the ones not adapted to the area die. Nature doesn't cause a population to go extinct because it went over carrying capacity.

While if hunters shoot them it's just the ones least camouflaged, biggest, or nearest the outer edge of the territory. This is really not a complex thing to understand.

:getstoned:


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #17277729 - 11/25/12 08:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

explosiveoxygen said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
Wolves play a key ecological role in the ecosystem. Both sides agree. However, to all of the idiots saying that the wilderness is so damaged that hunters are needed: shut up and get your head out of your ass. Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking, as they need to expend more and more energy into getting food. (This generally only applies to animals that are the among largest in the ecosystem; if this ideology applied to rabbits, which breed hundreds, if not thousands, of times faster then elk, then we would have problems)To all those who claim that all hunting should be banned: shut up and get your head out of your ass, it is not going to happen, and that just gives them more money that would not go into protecting the wild areas (not that they're doing a good job anyways, but still, some cash is better than no cash). Shoot all of the deer, elk, small game, etc that you want but leave large predators alone. Wolves were hunted out in CA? REINTRODUCE THEM! Take them from another area with proposed hunting, and put them in CA. If the people are so eager to catch wolves, let them assist in the capture and reintroduction. The same thing should apply to damn Europe. I love wolves, and they deserve to be restored to at least part of the prior range.




You clearly don't understand that packs need a certain area in which to roam and that the current amount of wildlands have only a certain carrying capacity beyond which leads wolves to wander into developed areas as well as into conflict with each other. The wolf population in Idaho, for instance, is already stabilized at its carrying capacity. How is this known? Well millions of dollars are spent over years tracking packs and breeding pairs. Hunts are allowed in Idaho to cull the population back down to the current amount of wildlands carrying capacity. How are people unable to understand carrying capacity? You simply cannot have an unlimited number of wolves in one area and expect them to live peacefully. Historical numbers for wolf populations will never be reached because there simply is not that much wilderness left for them to roam.




So what happens is the ones not adapted to the area die. Nature doesn't cause a population to go extinct because it went over carrying capacity.

While if hunters shoot them it's just the ones least camouflaged, biggest, or nearest the outer edge of the territory. This is really not a complex thing to understand.

:getstoned:



Removing part of a full population does not impact nature that much, as they regenerate more quickly then they usually would. Wolves were hunted out of nearly, if not all of the states and then were reintroduced by taking a percentage to relocate. The same could apply to stable populations in the states.

Also, shut up about wolves attacking people if they are not hunted. The come into urban areas not because they are overpopulated, but because of the abundance of food. Also, coyotes are more of a danger to humans (specifically children). If you want to hunt a large canine, hunt one that is already in all its natural ecosystems (and some more).

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17279933 - 11/25/12 04:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
Quote:

explosiveoxygen said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
Wolves play a key ecological role in the ecosystem. Both sides agree. However, to all of the idiots saying that the wilderness is so damaged that hunters are needed: shut up and get your head out of your ass. Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking, as they need to expend more and more energy into getting food. (This generally only applies to animals that are the among largest in the ecosystem; if this ideology applied to rabbits, which breed hundreds, if not thousands, of times faster then elk, then we would have problems)To all those who claim that all hunting should be banned: shut up and get your head out of your ass, it is not going to happen, and that just gives them more money that would not go into protecting the wild areas (not that they're doing a good job anyways, but still, some cash is better than no cash). Shoot all of the deer, elk, small game, etc that you want but leave large predators alone. Wolves were hunted out in CA? REINTRODUCE THEM! Take them from another area with proposed hunting, and put them in CA. If the people are so eager to catch wolves, let them assist in the capture and reintroduction. The same thing should apply to damn Europe. I love wolves, and they deserve to be restored to at least part of the prior range.




You clearly don't understand that packs need a certain area in which to roam and that the current amount of wildlands have only a certain carrying capacity beyond which leads wolves to wander into developed areas as well as into conflict with each other. The wolf population in Idaho, for instance, is already stabilized at its carrying capacity. How is this known? Well millions of dollars are spent over years tracking packs and breeding pairs. Hunts are allowed in Idaho to cull the population back down to the current amount of wildlands carrying capacity. How are people unable to understand carrying capacity? You simply cannot have an unlimited number of wolves in one area and expect them to live peacefully. Historical numbers for wolf populations will never be reached because there simply is not that much wilderness left for them to roam.




So what happens is the ones not adapted to the area die. Nature doesn't cause a population to go extinct because it went over carrying capacity.

While if hunters shoot them it's just the ones least camouflaged, biggest, or nearest the outer edge of the territory. This is really not a complex thing to understand.

:getstoned:



Removing part of a full population does not impact nature that much, as they regenerate more quickly then they usually would. Wolves were hunted out of nearly, if not all of the states and then were reintroduced by taking a percentage to relocate. The same could apply to stable populations in the states.

Also, shut up about wolves attacking people if they are not hunted. The come into urban areas not because they are overpopulated, but because of the abundance of food. Also, coyotes are more of a danger to humans (specifically children). If you want to hunt a large canine, hunt one that is already in all its natural ecosystems (and some more).




I never said wolves attack humans or that it was a problem. The problem is that wolves attack farm animals. Also, the population that the current amount of wild lands is finite. get that through your thick skull.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17280242 - 11/25/12 05:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

My skull may be thick, but even I know that (*for example*) Northern CA could use a few packs of wolves to balance the ecosystem before we resort to hunting. I am not against hunting populations that are stable unless there is a population (or lack of) somewhere else that could use new breeding stock.

I also think that hunters should only hunt black wolves (the ones with domestic dog genes in them). The pollute the breeding stock, and if not regulated, could forever change North American wolves.

Edited by poke_poke (11/25/12 05:14 PM)

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17280268 - 11/25/12 05:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
My skull may be thick, but even I know that northern CA could use a few packs of wolves to balance the ecosystem before we resort to hunting. I am not against hunting populations that are stable unless there is a population (or lack of) somewhere else that could use new breeding stock.

I also think that hunters should only hunt black wolves (the ones with domestic dog genes in them). The pollute the breeding stock, and if not regulated, could forever change North American wolves.




1. if they reintroduce wolves to northern cali they will be covered under the ESA and not be allowed to hunt until populations stabilize. it would be the same scenario as when they were reintroduced to Idaho and Montana.
2. type of wolf is irrelevant if the population has exceeded the carrying capacity of their environment.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17280292 - 11/25/12 05:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

1. Exactly. Your point?

2. Type of wolf is relevant, as if you have wolves that are say, 25% damn dog, then those are crossing with the pure wolves, then that makes the whole population weaker. As far as populations exceeding the carrying capacity, large predators do not overpopulate as the run out of food very quickly and are only as large as their food population permits them to be.

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17280328 - 11/25/12 05:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
1. Exactly. Your point?

2. Type of wolf is relevant, as if you have wolves that are say, 25% damn dog, then those are crossing with the pure wolves, then that makes the whole population weaker. As far as populations exceeding the carrying capacity, large predators do not overpopulate as the run out of food very quickly and are only as large as their food population permits them to be.




1. wolves can be hunted legally in idaho to control their population because they now exceed the carrying capacity of the wild lands where they roam. not sure about montana since i don't live there. ie, the whole crux of my argument. duh.
2. wtf are you talking about. where is this even a problem?


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17280368 - 11/25/12 05:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
1. Exactly. Your point?

2. Type of wolf is relevant, as if you have wolves that are say, 25% damn dog, then those are crossing with the pure wolves, then that makes the whole population weaker. As far as populations exceeding the carrying capacity, large predators do not overpopulate as the run out of food very quickly and are only as large as their food population permits them to be.




1. wolves can be hunted legally in idaho to control their population because they now exceed the carrying capacity of the wild lands where they roam. not sure about montana since i don't live there. ie, the whole crux of my argument. duh.
2. wtf are you talking about. where is this even a problem?



1. Not exactly disagreeing with you... just saying that they could be relocated before hunted, as that would grant a new area a better ecosystem. I am not anti hunting dude.

2. Ever seen a black wolf? Yea, that is a dog/wolf hybrid. Lots of people simply ignore this, and wolves' genes are being polluted by domestic dogs. Hunters should take dog/wolf hybrids rather then pure wolves until that problem is straightened out.

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17280422 - 11/25/12 05:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
1. Exactly. Your point?

2. Type of wolf is relevant, as if you have wolves that are say, 25% damn dog, then those are crossing with the pure wolves, then that makes the whole population weaker. As far as populations exceeding the carrying capacity, large predators do not overpopulate as the run out of food very quickly and are only as large as their food population permits them to be.




1. wolves can be hunted legally in idaho to control their population because they now exceed the carrying capacity of the wild lands where they roam. not sure about montana since i don't live there. ie, the whole crux of my argument. duh.
2. wtf are you talking about. where is this even a problem?



1. Not exactly disagreeing with you... just saying that they could be relocated before hunted, as that would grant a new area a better ecosystem. I am not anti hunting dude.

2. Ever seen a black wolf? Yea, that is a dog/wolf hybrid. Lots of people simply ignore this, and wolves' genes are being polluted by domestic dogs. Hunters should take dog/wolf hybrids rather then pure wolves until that problem is straightened out.




1. you don't know much about idaho do you? most of the state is roadless wilderness area. in fact, much more so than northern cali. also, the wolf population is doing so well in idaho that wolves from idaho are now migrating into WA and OR and Nevada to find more room. this is a good thing.

2. i've seen 1 wolf in idaho and it was not a black wolf. it was a huge ass mutha fucker. probably 4 feet tall and close to 200 pounds. not a mix at all.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17280469 - 11/25/12 05:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)



See the black one? Most packs have this problem. European packs (the remaining ones anyways) do not have as much trouble with this.

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17280491 - 11/25/12 05:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What the hell does Idaho's terrain have to do with anything? Also, I was just using CA as a example (mostly because its were I am, and because northern CA is really big so there is lots of undisturbed area). Wolves could easily be captured and relocated (maybe that would be a better use of the helicopters then the pussy in the video).

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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17280530 - 11/25/12 05:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
What the hell does Idaho's terrain have to do with anything? Also, I was just using CA as a example (mostly because its were I am, and because northern CA is really big so there is lots of undisturbed area). Wolves could easily be captured and relocated (maybe that would be a better use of the helicopters then the pussy in the video).




they could be relocated. i'm not sure about historic wolf populations in CA. I do know however that Idaho had a long history of wolves before they were hunted out of the area by early settlers. also, if you want to know anything about the reintroduction of wolves to an area you should probably look up what happened in idaho. an astonishing success. you might even learn a thing or two or more than that :super:


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Registered: 11/18/12
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
    #17280590 - 11/25/12 05:54 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SlashOZ said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
What the hell does Idaho's terrain have to do with anything? Also, I was just using CA as a example (mostly because its were I am, and because northern CA is really big so there is lots of undisturbed area). Wolves could easily be captured and relocated (maybe that would be a better use of the helicopters then the pussy in the video).




they could be relocated. i'm not sure about historic wolf populations in CA. I do know however that Idaho had a long history of wolves before they were hunted out of the area by early settlers. also, if you want to know anything about the reintroduction of wolves to an area you should probably look up what happened in idaho. an astonishing success. you might even learn a thing or two or more than that :super:




CA had a shitload of wolves, then a bunch of idiots hunted them, beavers, bears, and even stuff like the california condor (they are badass-but now there are like 160 in the world, which is a huge improvement). Coyotes then moved in, and are bold as hell, even killing children because they reside in even the most urban of areas in places like where I live, San Diego. If wolves were reintroduced, they would kill off a few of the coyotes, strengthen up the deer, and once stable, provide a source of revenue. Sucks to be missing all large predators... we have problems, even in suburban areas, with deer. I'm pissed off because people like killing rattlers in large amounts, when they control the rats...

Well nice debating with you man.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17282679 - 11/26/12 01:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the california condor population dropped because of lead bullets. when you shoot a gel cube or body, the leads breaks up into thousands of tiny pieces which the condors can easily and mistakenly eat. the solution is to switch over to brass bullets which stay together as a whole slug.

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #17285633 - 11/26/12 04:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Condors were also hunted because people disliked them, and as they were so large, they were easier for people to shoot then typical vultures. Feathers were also sold occasionally, which prompted more to die. Lead bullets were probably one of the bigger factors, though.

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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17285668 - 11/26/12 04:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i believe what you say, but watch the latest oregon field guide episode. it tells the story better than i can. they are being reintroduced into areas of california where lead bullets have been banned.

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Invisibleelax420
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17285710 - 11/26/12 04:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poke_poke said:
Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking,




False.
Kaibab deer story.
http://depts.alverno.edu/nsmt/youngcc/research/kaibab/story1.html

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: elax420]
    #17285810 - 11/26/12 04:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Quote:

poke_poke said:
Populations of large herbivorous animals do not explode to the point where the cannot sustain themselves generally speaking,




False.
Kaibab deer story.
http://depts.alverno.edu/nsmt/youngcc/research/kaibab/story1.html



Deer are not large herbivorous animals. They are moderately sized; I was speaking of larger animals such as moose, or even omnivorous animals such as black bear. Sorry, I should have specified my wording a little more carefully.

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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #17285830 - 11/26/12 05:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
i believe what you say, but watch the latest oregon field guide episode. it tells the story better than i can. they are being reintroduced into areas of california where lead bullets have been banned.



Ok, I'll make sure to watch that :smile:. I happen to go to the San Diego Zoo's Wild Animal Park, so I get to see and hear about these amazing birds alot. I've also been lucky enough to see one in the wild while hiking... it was badass. If you're ever in San Diego, I suggest hitting both the zoo (more commercial) and the wild animal park.

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: poke_poke]
    #17285842 - 11/26/12 05:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)


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Invisiblethe human abstract
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #17285854 - 11/26/12 05:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

something about the family and how society runs i don't care about dog fighting

dog hunting is a no.


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Offlinepoke_poke
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: the human abstract]
    #17285936 - 11/26/12 05:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
here it is.
http://www.opb.org/television/




Thanks!

Quote:

the human abstract said:
something about the family and how society runs i don't care about dog fighting

dog hunting is a no.




wtf are you talking about? And what kind of logic is that, anyways?:thumbdown:

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Invisibleelax420
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Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: the human abstract]
    #17285951 - 11/26/12 05:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

the human abstract said:
something about the family and how society runs i don't care about dog fighting

dog hunting is a no.





Haha
the fuck you talking about?

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