|
SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16867934 - 09/18/12 10:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
1. Nature has a carrying capacity 2. That is altered by the encroachment of humans and our cities, roads, etc. 3. animal populations that exceed the new carrying capacities are bad for a few reasons. first, it hurts the animals because they end up starving to death. second, it hurts humans because animals will wonder into cities or farms, etc and start fucking shit up looking for food. 4. controlling animal populations through hunting is an effective way to control animal populations and prevent the bad things listed in point 3 from happening. 5. if you can't realize this very simple fact about the human impact on the natural areas of north america you are very close minded and should probably click the link i posted earlier and/or do some research into controlling animal populations through hunting.
Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.
and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
Edited by SlashOZ (09/18/12 10:19 AM)
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ]
#16867969 - 09/18/12 10:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Don't give the that shit dude. I have a bachelor's in recreation management. That included three classes based exclusively on wildlife and natural resource management. I did an entire research project on wolf populations in the US. And yes, I have lived in two states where wolves regularly encroach on human settlements. Those places are Boone, NC, home to the last remaining wild population of Red Wolves. The other is Ely, MN, home of the International Wold Center and thousands of wild Grey Wolves. When a wolf comes into either of these towns they don't put it down, they tranquillize it, tag it at relocate it to the wild. Like bears, if a creature that has already been removed from town comes back, then they may make the decision to kill it. That's not my point anyway. I've already said I have no thing against killing problem animals in human settlements. I'm done with this. I've repeated myself too many goddamned times already.
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16868041 - 09/18/12 10:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GuruBushHippie said: Don't give the that shit dude. I have a bachelor's in recreation management. That included three classes based exclusively on wildlife and natural resource management. I did an entire research project on wolf populations in the US. And yes, I have lived in two states where wolves regularly encroach on human settlements. Those places are Boone, NC, home to the last remaining wild population of Red Wolves. The other is Ely, MN, home of the International Wold Center and thousands of wild Grey Wolves. When a wolf comes into either of these towns they don't put it down, they tranquillize it, tag it at relocate it to the wild. Like bears, if a creature that has already been removed from town comes back, then they may make the decision to kill it. That's not my point anyway. I've already said I have no thing against killing problem animals in human settlements. I'm done with this. I've repeated myself too many goddamned times already.
I don't think taking undergraduate courses qualifies you to tell people in other states how to live and manage their wildlife. I'm speaking based on my state's needs because *gasp* people that live here actually know what is going on here. I can tell you right now the situation for wolves here if vastly different than where you have lived. If you did any research worth its salt on wolves in the U.S. you'd know that the wolves in my area have reached the carrying capacity of the environment. Hunts have become necessary to avoid the evils of overpopulation of a huge predator such as the wolf. Further, hunting now is almost all related to population control and sport. The two go hand in hand. The fact that controlling animal populations can be achieved while people are entertaining themselves through hunting is not a bad thing or something evil. Most hunters go hunting because they enjoy being outdoors and the sport of tracking an animal while hiking and camping through the woods. The idea that wolf hunters are somehow bloodthirsty psychopaths as you have suggested in some of your posts is completely absurd. Also, the notion that all or even most wolf hunts happen from airplanes is absurd. My state actually decided against passing a law allowing ranchers and forest service officials to kill wolves on their own property from an airplane. It seems like most of the people in this thread that are anti-wolf hunting are taking a few examples of people hunting from airplanes in alaska and then generalizing that to everywhere else that wolves are hunted.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
|
psilocybeMAN
It gets so real sometimes.



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 1,249
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16868077 - 09/18/12 10:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SlashOZ said: 1. Nature has a carrying capacity 2. That is altered by the encroachment of humans and our cities, roads, etc. 3. animal populations that exceed the new carrying capacities are bad for a few reasons. first, it hurts the animals because they end up starving to death. second, it hurts humans because animals will wonder into cities or farms, etc and start fucking shit up looking for food. 4. controlling animal populations through hunting is an effective way to control animal populations and prevent the bad things listed in point 3 from happening. 5. if you can't realize this very simple fact about the human impact on the natural areas of north america you are very close minded and should probably click the link i posted earlier and/or do some research into controlling animal populations through hunting.
Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.
and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

you(guru) keep saying that nature (today) cold be left alone and work itself out. which we keep pointing out is not true. yes we are all being pretty repetitive. but i feel i should reiterate that there IS a carrying capacity for hunted species in each area/zone. each zone has a certain number of tags issued based on the wildlife biologist findings and recorded history on what works. this system has proven to work and help wildlife. you seem to just not like the killing part, but killing is a norm in nature. your/our evolved human morals against killing have no place in nature. we are (hunters) the tool for wildlife management to keep wildlife populations healthy.
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
#16868104 - 09/18/12 10:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
killing is a norm in nature.
THEN WHY NOT LET NATURE DO THE KILLING???
For the tenth time, I don't have a problem with killing animals for resources. Wolves have no resource to offer us.
This is my view on it. It isn't going to change. End of story.
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
psilocybeMAN
It gets so real sometimes.



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 1,249
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16868118 - 09/18/12 11:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHER OVER HUNTED BEFORE REGULATION. and we are nature, so nature is still doing the killing.
now it just so happens we know what we're doing and it just so happens hunting is an american/human tradition that we cant help but love because of our genetics. hunting is needed + and it happens to be fun which = todays hunting.
*edit*: i see where your coming from as i dont personally hunt anything that looks like a dog, thats just me. i dont believe in prohibiting something based on the fact that it makes you(and im sure much more hippies :P ) sad. i trust in communal biology and if the people in that position say its needed, i trust them, because its been proven their system works.
Edited by psilocybeMAN (09/18/12 11:07 AM)
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
#16868146 - 09/18/12 11:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
psilocybeMAN said: BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHER OVER HUNTED BEFORE REGULATION. and we are nature, so nature is still doing the killing.
now it just so happens we know what we're doing and it just so happens hunting is an american/human tradition that we cant help but love because of our genetics. hunting is needed and it happens to be fun which = todays hunting.
*edit*: i see where your coming from as i dont personally hunt anything that looks like a dog, thats just me. i dont believe in prohibiting something based on the fact that it makes you(and im sure much more hippies :P ) sad. i trust in communal biology and if the people in that position say its needed, i trust them, because its been proven their system works.
fine i'll go with that if it'll keep his thread from popping back up. it's fucking with my mood and I don't like being pissed off.
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16868206 - 09/18/12 11:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
ok, i'm calmed down and i'm going to leave the discussion at this:
We have regulation that works TODAY. And while wolves may not be over hunted again for hundreds of years, our world and especially our country is becoming more developed and more focused on building human settlements. Some lands are protected now, but there's no way of telling what legislation will happen in the future, especially considering how bad we are hurting for natural resources. I think this generation needs to set the example and preserve the remaining wild lands and creatures in this country so that others can enjoy it years from now.
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
psilocybeMAN
It gets so real sometimes.



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 1,249
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16868251 - 09/18/12 11:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GuruBushHippie said: ok, i'm calmed down and i'm going to leave the discussion at this:
We have regulation that works TODAY. And while wolves may not be over hunted again for hundreds of years, our world and especially our country is becoming more developed and more focused on building human settlements. Some lands are protected now, but there's no way of telling what legislation will happen in the future, especially considering how bad we are hurting for natural resources. I think this generation needs to set the example and preserve the remaining wild lands and creatures in this country so that others can enjoy it years from now.
i completely agree, and i pretty much thought thats what wildlife management was put in place for- for conservation and preservation.
i understand that the government can and has made mistakes, but in this rare occasion scientist (the biologist) are in charge and not some hillbilly. i see were your coming from man and i want the same things you want when it comes to preserving our lands. i just whole heartedly support hunting as i understand why its the best option economy wise and conservation wise. like i said earlier most of the funding that funds programs to preserve national forest and parks comes from hunting and fishing.
|
psilocybeMAN
It gets so real sometimes.



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 1,249
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: SlashOZ] 1
#16868279 - 09/18/12 11:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SlashOZ said: Guru, i'm very disappointed in you. You seem cool but you are 100% wrong on this topic and your instance on being right is rather east coast peta foolish. you clearly have no clue what its like to live in a state with wild wolf packs that encroach on human areas. you also seem to have zero clue about wildlife management. like absolutely no clue at all.
and honestly, there is nothing more annoying than people from outside of my state trying to tell us how to live our lives as if they know what is going on. you guys clearly do not understand wolves or their interactions with other animals or humans. please stay the fuck out of what other states do if you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

i felt this was worthy of a quote.
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: psilocybeMAN]
#16874443 - 09/19/12 11:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GuruBushHippie said:

I thought this was worthy of a quote.
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
Nifflerz



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 56,006
Loc: I’M A TART
Last seen: 1 minute, 16 seconds
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16875867 - 09/19/12 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
PROFESSIONAL BALL BUFFERER
THE PRODIGAL SON
TRY ME BITCH
I LIKE WATCHING TUDDIES
I LIKE DB COOPER
I DON’T LIKE THE MOON LANDING
|
duff monkey
Stranger


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 589
Loc: where ocean breezes blow
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Nifflerz]
#16880988 - 09/20/12 03:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
Absent Minded



Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 3,300
Loc: Way Down South
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: duff monkey]
#16882379 - 09/20/12 07:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
this thread turned into a shit show. but I will say I read all the posts in it.
--------------------
Beats
More Beats
sheekle: fuck peace love and unity
sheekle: death despair and misery
sheekle: is where it's at
|
downhome
Toast Slayer



Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 217
Loc:
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#16971042 - 10/05/12 10:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Sometimes Wolf population needs control. This is why we hunt in the first place. Too many wolves and not enough food for them. You either let them die of starvation, or harvest so many of them a year. It's all controlled.
I would rather have hunters (me) and wild life rangers harvest a portion of the population.
--------------------
I prefer mushrooms over war.
Edited by downhome (10/05/12 10:53 AM)
|
Zerome
That Guy



Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 28
Loc: South
Last seen: 11 years, 18 days
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: downhome]
#17003970 - 10/10/12 08:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The gray wolf that was reintroduced to the Yellowstone area has shown to be A keystone species, in my environmental conflict class wolves were the last topic we studied. If the wolves were reintroduced, why would we spend the time and money to return them just to hunt them? Without the grey wolf in particular, certain species run rampant destroying ecosystems and devastating other species in the process. The wolves are doing their job in their part of the ecosystem, if humans put pressure on then by hunting this could change for the worst.
-------------------- On a long enough time-line everyone's survival rate drops to zero..
|
GuruBushHippie
MountainMan


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3,434
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Zerome]
#17004159 - 10/10/12 09:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Zerome said: The gray wolf that was reintroduced to the Yellowstone area has shown to be A keystone species, in my environmental conflict class wolves were the last topic we studied. If the wolves were reintroduced, why would we spend the time and money to return them just to hunt them? Without the grey wolf in particular, certain species run rampant destroying ecosystems and devastating other species in the process. The wolves are doing their job in their part of the ecosystem, if humans put pressure on then by hunting this could change for the worst.
Exactly
-------------------- Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.
|
Zerome
That Guy



Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 28
Loc: South
Last seen: 11 years, 18 days
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: GuruBushHippie]
#17004312 - 10/10/12 10:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Just for any who doubt what I said, look up keystone species and see what happens when they are removed.. I am not some hillbilly who doesn't live in your state I'm a wildlife biology major at a prestigious school, it is my job to study things such as this.
With that said, the grey wolf population is stable enough to establish a hunting season, and in most cases Hunters can't even find them to kill. This last season of hunting (according to my research) over 200 licenses were bought yet only had two recorded wolf kills. The parks and recreation, or other state jobs really do need that money that is generated from licenses. Add long as the wolf is notkilled out of season and not put on the predatory list (Wyoming) the numbers on wolf populations will be stable and sufficient to the ecosystems.
Thank you come again!
-------------------- On a long enough time-line everyone's survival rate drops to zero..
|
Bjorn_Stormcrow
The Farfarer.



Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 2,572
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 19 days
|
Re: The killing of wolves in the wild... [Re: Zerome]
#17004902 - 10/10/12 12:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Honestly the only kind of wolf hunting I don't agree with is when they go out with helicopters and kill entire packs. Actually i'm just opposed to helicopter hunting in general, there is no honor or challenge in it.
-------------------- Live Mythically
|
psilocybeMAN
It gets so real sometimes.



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 1,249
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
Edited by psilocybeMAN (10/18/12 03:44 PM)
|
|