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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Can I clone infinitely?
#16844240 - 09/13/12 11:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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So say I get one fruit and clone it, then inoculate 5 jars with an agar wedge then fruit then clone one of the new fruits then inoculate 5 more jars. So on and so forth.
will this work without weakening the mycelium or will I need to start from spore again eventually?
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Kizzle
Misanthrope



Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Greenvalley]
#16844268 - 09/13/12 11:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, it'll grow weak after so many transfers. You could keep the original culture and use that for a long time.
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IamYou
heretic

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 704
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Kizzle]
#16844287 - 09/13/12 11:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah what he said... im trying to think of what the term for this is...
"_____" degradation
-------------------- “Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego.”
- You
Remember, be here now...
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Kizzle]
#16844289 - 09/13/12 11:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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so even though its a new fruit it wont make much difference?
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase



Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,370
Loc: UK
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Kizzle]
#16844295 - 09/13/12 11:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good question.
Am I right in thinking that after 'a few' clones/G2G's senesence is the problem, and if so, can fruiting and printing 'reset' the process or is the whole line fucked including the spores from the fruits?
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SpencerPhillips


Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 661
Loc: ON, Canada
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: GoldenArrow]
#16844313 - 09/13/12 11:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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If this were a case of doing such a task on agar, switching up agar recipes helps the mycelium maintain strength.
Probably why someone else has mentioned it will "weaken it"
-------------------- Come on put it up! Woooo!
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Kizzle
Misanthrope



Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,870
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: GoldenArrow]
#16844345 - 09/13/12 11:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Senescence. The spores would produce new tounger, healthier strains but the mushrooms themselves have the same genetics as the mycelium it's growing on.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Kizzle]
#16844360 - 09/13/12 11:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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very cool 
tanks for your answers guys.
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Greenvalley]
#16844380 - 09/13/12 11:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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It takes quite a lot of transfers to get senescence, but you can easily avoid it. Make a master grain jar. 
Keep it super clean, then you can put 1 grain at a time on agar or use small amounts for G2G, then expand that (5-10x) for spawning.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Primal Call]
#16844385 - 09/13/12 11:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ryath said: Make a master grain jar. 
Keep it super clean, then you can put 1 grain at a time on agar or use small amounts for G2G, then expand that (5-10x) for spawning.

my thoughts exactly
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notanumber
Thick as a brick



Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 581
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: Greenvalley]
#16844390 - 09/13/12 11:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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So how can some mycellial networks be thousands of years old? I guess there would be none of the original genetics left in current samples taken from really old large networks of Armillaria for example?
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IamYou
heretic

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 704
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: notanumber]
#16844408 - 09/14/12 12:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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because there is no such thing as purely isolated sub-strains in nature. its all ms out in the wild, one big orgy
-------------------- “Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego.”
- You
Remember, be here now...
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notanumber
Thick as a brick



Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 581
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: IamYou]
#16844438 - 09/14/12 12:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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for sure, of course, but if you think about it, cloning is really just giving a single genetic strain more colonization space. In the wild, a network isn't constrained (by jar walls etc) in the same way as when grown artificially.
I guess I'm curious how long a single genetic isolate lasts within the context of a large established network.
Probably not thousands of years-- but then the obvious implication is that mycellial networks maybe shouldn't be thought of as single organisms (as some people often call them) but cities/colonies or whatever.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: notanumber]
#16844453 - 09/14/12 12:16 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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i think ill keep one isolated strain going as long as possible just to see what happens.
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IamYou
heretic

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 704
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: notanumber]
#16844464 - 09/14/12 12:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
notanumber said: for sure, of course, but if you think about it, cloning is really just giving a single genetic strain more colonization space. In the wild, a network isn't constrained (by jar walls etc) in the same way as when grown artificially.
I guess I'm curious how long a single genetic isolate lasts within the context of a large established network.
Probably not thousands of years-- but then the obvious implication is that mycellial networks maybe shouldn't be thought of as single organisms (as some people often call them) but cities/colonies or whatever.
hmm.. im not the person to shed some light on this but possibly the substrains that run out of steam get taken over by younger/stronger ones by means of spore germination...?
-------------------- “Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego.”
- You
Remember, be here now...
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS


Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: IamYou]
#16844484 - 09/14/12 12:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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I like spores
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ZappityZap
Stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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I was actually surprised by how quickly senescence kicks in for a strain.
I take spores, make a jar, make a GLC, inoculate a bunch of jars, make a monotub, choose a candidate to clone, and pop that clone biopsy into a few LC's.
It grows out I have my master LC, in 500ml jars, roughly half full.
This would colonize WBS jars in a week.
As the backup jar emptied, I would take the last little bit and shoot it into a new LC, rather than crack open another master culture.
Well this one was much slower to grow, about 2 weeks.
When I took the last bit left in that one, and injected it into a new LC, so this is LC generation 3 jar. It basically doesn't colonize anymore. Takes at least a month.
So keep young master cultures.
-------------------- You'll never know, when it'll strike like lightning!
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tropicalfrenzy
Strangerer



Registered: 09/04/12
Posts: 1,522
Loc: Oz
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: ZappityZap]
#16844673 - 09/14/12 01:42 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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same as weed... 3 generations to breakdown.
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op2kal



Registered: 08/31/12
Posts: 1,167
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Quote:
tropicalfrenzy said: same as weed... 3 generations to breakdown. 
Id love to see the proof on that.... Ive cloned the same strain over 20 generation seen nothing bad yet... Think about all the clones passed around??? And what about all the clone only strains passed from a mother plant -- oh wait no thats a clone that they gave him to make a mother plant, wait what he's doing the same thing to give it to that guy over there- and and the same thing over there???
The theory seems like total BS to me, if the plant isn't healthy it isn't going to be what you want it to be and that seems to be the case in most peeps strains going to hell over multiple generations. Many knowledgeable peeps in the medicinal communitys have found that there strains get better with a few generations.
EDIT: Of course this is in response to marijuana. Mushrooms? I am still learning them. First grow coming soon
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Edited by op2kal (09/14/12 02:20 AM)
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Can I clone infinitely? [Re: op2kal]
#16844738 - 09/14/12 02:17 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is some good info you guys, I look foward to my own results
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