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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise)
    #16828616 - 09/11/12 11:55 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I've only done a few monotubs that were completely fire and forget.  For the longest time I was limited to growing in a closet so I normally went the Martha method and augmented that with how monotubs are done.  In the end I had tubs inside of a greenhouse acting pretty much like huge trays because I had them on hand and they fit.  All of the lighting, fae, and humidifying were automated.  For fae I used a Scythe Ultra Kaze 12cm PC fan that pushes 130 cfm a minute, which is amazing for how small it is.  I fabricated a filter box from a small plastic Sterlite container made for shoes.  The fan was mounted inside with the output being routed through PVC, and the intake was simply the box cover with a HEPA filter cut and sealed to fit inside.  For power I simply spliced the 3-pin adapter and soldered it to a 12v AC adapter that had roughly the same amps. 

So with my analog hygrometer it was easy to tell the humidity in my martha and such an environment made filtered FAE easy.  Now I'm back to monotubs since I'm in a new house and don't want to closet grow anymore.  All I want are monotubs that I set and forget.  Two tubs that have been in fruiting conditions, stacked on the shelves I used in my martha off to the side of a window for ambient light, look rather different as far as condensation on the substrate(uncased).  They both started out the same more or less with plenty of micro dots of condensation on them, but the top one seems to be aggregating those droplets while the bottom tub has few left after yesterday.  The tubs are identical and hole placements are as well, being 2" holes .5" above substrate (x2) on the long side and one hole 2" from the top on the small side of the tub.  I've always guessed my problem with monotubs was never getting the amount of polyfil right in the holes, and that's a big deal since FAE occurs through them. 

Today I was putting a third tub into fruiting conditions and decided to bust out one of my two ultrasonic foggers that used to supply my Martha.  About 7' away I had a fan aimed at the tubs on low and each of the two fruiting tubs had the ultrasonic humidifier hose put in the top hole opposite the side the fan was blowing toward.  These humidifiers are adjustable with a knob so I set it to high which creates a vapor so thick it looks like cigarette smoke, but a much larger stream.  Once the tub filled with the water vapor I could gently see the mists seeping out of the bottom holes and obviously out of the hole the hose was run through as well.  Once I pulled the hose out and refit the polyfil to fill the hole, the vapor mist gently flowed out of it.  The flow was faint, but seemed adequate to me.  I don't have the fan directly aimed at the tubs, but I'm not sure if it should be oscillating so the moving air actually hits the tubs, or if should be placed such that it's not aimed directly at them.  The shitty thing is that we've had a lot of hot weather so the central A/C runs a lot which dries out the air.  So how would you set the fan up?  My polyfil is also not packed tightly because I want FAE, and it's obvious water would easily escape if the fan were pointed directly at the tubs since the vapor mist was visibly escaping with the fan on low.

As a side note, due to the indirect sunlight and the greenhouse effect, the tubs are certainly warmer during the day and I think the top tub gets more light(these tubs are clear all around except for the plastic liner my subs in) which causes evaporation and then condensation at night when they cool off.  Neither are in direct sunlight ever, but due to the color of things in the room the light reflects easily. 

My pinsets in the old grow setup were gorgeous and I'd pull 4+ oz easy per tub, and that's more on the low side for a first flush.  These tubs seem to be taking their sweet ass time to pin and I'm beating my head against a wall trying to think about what I used to do and how that equates to what I'm doing now.  Previously, the Martha grows would get only 2 sessions of FAE that lastest 1 minute.  That was it.  Granted that meant 130 cubic ft(less with filter resistance likely) made it into the fruiting area twice a day, so I'm beginning to wonder if I need a fan running in the room or not.  The A/C vent circulates air.  Bah... think I'll just follow Large_Dose's tek and set the fan up that way. Just cannot be sure about the density the polyfil should be at. :crankey:


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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #16828771 - 09/11/12 12:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Did you seriously just write all of that to ask what the density of the polyfil should be for a monotub?
Extremely lose, almost falling out, is how I do it.
I have a small fan pointing at my tubs from about 5' away.
I never open the lid to fan & turn out good flushes.

As far as your pinset being crappy, I'd guess genetics.


--------------------
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"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #16828881 - 09/11/12 12:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I wrote all of that because I rely on past experience to integrate with what I'm trying now.  There are more questions in there and/or things that could be critiqued, and I was hoping that would happen.


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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #16828921 - 09/11/12 01:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't use the ultrasonic directly in the tubs.
In the room is fine, but pushing that much water vapor into the tubs can cause the substrate to be over saturated, which would cause shitty pinsets.

Here's a few pictures of my set up:


As for the fan, it depends on how big it is.
You see mine in the picture (the little blue thing) is tiny,
so I can run it on high & point it directly at the tubs.
If you're using a larger fan, which it sounds like you are, since it oscillates, I'd have it on low & oscillating.
That way you know the air is getting disturbed in the entire room & all your tubs are receiving adequate FAE.
I used to run GHs, too. All automated & complete set & forget.
It took me longer to dial in my monotub set up than my GH. Go figure...
It's all about messing with your density of your polyfil vs. your fan & tub set up.
Also, I try not to stack tubs unless I absolutely have to. That way I know they're all receiving the same amount of light.
If you have to stack them, be sure to rotate the tubs top to bottom every couple of days.

Lastly, sorry for being shitty about your long post. Too often it's a noob just rambling.
But, since actually taking my time & reading the post, I see there's a lot of useful information & more questions than I had initially read.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #16828990 - 09/11/12 01:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks a lot for the info man, truly appreciated.  My fan is larger, probably 12-13" in diameter, so I'll keep it on oscillate and low setting.  I have been rotating the tubs, both top/bottom, and rotating the sides. 

The ultrasonic I use are those Repti-Foggers that take an entire day on high setting to completely vaporize about one liter of water.  When I do use them to hydrate the tubs I bend the tubing, it's flex tubing that collapses and can be bent into shapes, so that the vapor hits the lid of the tub first and then slowly dissipates around the substrate.  In order for water droplets to visibly form it has to run on high for at least 30 minutes.  It's only a problem if you have larger droplets of water since the microscopic vapor droplets add to the mass of the droplets already on the sub. 

My hygrometer is a rusty, and likely inaccurate piece of shit, so I'm going to go pick one up here in a few minutes to check each tub.  If these three end up having shitty pinsets due to rH then I'll just case subsequent tubs.


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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #16829008 - 09/11/12 01:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I doubt it's due to RH.
I never mist my tubs during the first flush.
I know exactly the type of fogger you're talking about, as I used one in my bulk humidifier for my GHs.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #16829028 - 09/11/12 01:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Right on, well they're set to go and I'm going to leave them be.  +5 for you good sir.


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #16829034 - 09/11/12 01:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:thanx: Keep us up-to-date.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #16833432 - 09/12/12 07:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

One of the things I wasn't happy with was the lighting setup.  I have CFL's but they're the huge 100 watt kind that are roughly the size of a 2 liter bottle and pump out a shit load of lumens(for a CFL in a non mogul fixture).  I have two that I used to root clones and keep mothers so one bright white 6500k and warm white.  The tubs on the bottom weren't getting enough light, and I think that has always been integral to monotub grows for me since the heat causes evaporation and increases humidity(only slightly), so I scrounged up two small shop fixtures and put some 6500K 30 watt CFL's in them.  Now the bottom tubs get the same light intensity as the top tubs. 

It's all automated on one of those terrarium, programmable power strips and after being on for a little over an hour today there's a nice misty looking condensate on the walls of all tubs and no condensation 2-3" in diameter around the polyfil holes.  So I'm happy with how everything is going now and they're on their own until they start pinning and complete the first flushes. 

Today I'm spawning another tub and will be using slightly over 1:1 since I only had a half brick of coir left and 12 grain jars ready to go.  Think I may use 8 quarts of spawn and see how the colonization goes.  These are the last jars I'll be using from this three year old GT LC I've kept going from a slant.  Next up will be Cuban, which I'm pretty excited about.


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Polyfil FAE quantification (not precise) [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #16834458 - 09/12/12 12:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Nice.
Yea, I use 4' shop floros for my lighting w/ 6500 bulbs.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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