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InvisibleUnd3rtow623
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Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster
    #16820380 - 09/09/12 10:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This is round one of cultivation for myself and a friend... looking for advice or any forum references from any of ye learned growers that might be of aid in our quest.

SWIM has recently acquired/installed the following:

--visqueened(industrial strength) a 2x8 closet (with 2 sliding doors for easy access on both side of the room), with industrial gorilla glue duct tape sealing everything together

--florescent lighting installed to the top of the room(visqueen top ends at the first shelf(about 6 feet up) with a timer (12 on/12 off)

--there is a dryer hose input in the top of the room which stems from the shelf above, tying into a 12x12 wooden box, regular household filter in the middle, with a fan pushing air from the side opposite the outlet hose  *I know the filter isn't ideal - definitely hoping for some suggestions here

--an "exhaust system" on the bottom of the chamber, consisting of dryer hose with a 3 foot segment coming out the closet, running through a piece of filter, and ending with one of those plastic dryer "shutter" devices that close when no air is being pushed out, and open when air is being forced out

-- 5 gallon bucket with a pond fogger inside, holes drilled around the rim, old computer fan on top to push in air, and mist out, set on a timer as well to maintain 85-90% RH (calibrated analog hygrometer, tested thoroughly, and a correct cycle finally figured out)

--another 5 gallon bucket with a water line running to the humidifier through an aquarium filter to reduce time that the chamber has to be open, and to ensure proper water filtration.  **any input on this would be extremely appreciated

--2 rubbermaid bins for incubator, with installed submersible aquarium heater, and thermometer, set for 84ish degrees (F), with a bicycle tire fitted around the bottom bin and slightly inflated to reduce water lose **this area is next to the grow room, inside the closet, but not inside the visqueened area(I heard that is idea, but only after the room was already constructed)

--metal shelving(3 shelves, each 60 inched long) on top of the humidifier

--Sterilization tools - alcohol wick "burner", 91% isopropyl alcohol, lysol, latex gloves, face masks, 10% bleach mixture for prep cleaning, etc

--perlite(miracle grow), vermiculite(hoffman horticulture) acquired since it is a first time grow (cakes intended until experience is gained)

--SWIM was planning on birthing about 30 1.5pt jars and using the 40% coir, 40% Peat based potting soli, 10% vermiculite, 5% calcium carbonate, 5% crushed oyster shells,  as recommended by ANNO, to place on these shelves.

A couple questions - how much time after birthed cakes are placed in the coir substrate is recommended before placing a tray into the growing chamber?
- Any suggestions for draining the chamber area? and maybe a light layer of perlite for condensation absorption..?
- Is this air filtration system enough to have the air running 6-8 hours/per 24hour day
- SWIM is residing in a humid, hot climate, and was trying to think of alternate was of cooling during heat waves.  And also, is a Lasko heater okay for maintaining heat during winter months? (this has a digital thermostat, though i would be relying on an additional thermometer)

Any recommendation of criticism are very much welcome.. just trying to reduce contamination, saving time and money.  This is a newer experience, so SWIM knows not to expect high yields initially.  Thanks to all for your time reading

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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16820402 - 09/09/12 10:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It sounds like your making growing mushrooms WAY more complicated than it actually is.  Also, ditch the incubator, they're outdated information.  With what you have available though, you could easily get some high yields going bulk.

Check out my "Everything A New Cultivator Needs To Know!" guide.  If you pay particular attention to the bulk cultivation section and the greenhouse links, I think you'll be able to simplify your setup quite a bit, which will help you get better results.

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OfflineHellyen
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16820483 - 09/09/12 10:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Agree with Deathryder don't over complicate things. But seems like you've done homework. Are your CFL's 6500k? If  not get those bulbs. GL dood!


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Hellyen]
    #16821196 - 09/10/12 12:25 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

84F is warmer than you want. I'd try to keep it under 80F and if the room temp is anywhere in the 70s I would avoid heating it altogether.

If you want to reduce contamination I would forget about trying to prevent contams from entering with filters and focus on ensuring you're getting enough fresh air exchange. You're only going to be running into mold problems if you are creating an environment suitable for mold.

You're going to need to do a lot of tweaking with that setup. Humidifiers can easily flood your substrate and even a small fan can easily dry it out. As odd as it sounds it's actually possible to do both when timers are involved. It would probably be better to lose the fan and use air holes around the chamber instead.


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InvisibleUnd3rtow623
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16823307 - 09/10/12 01:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thx to all for the speedy replies! This is truly an amazing website. 

So TIL to scrap the incubator.. is this just for rye and other bulk methods, or would it include BRF cake method?  If this is the case for both, then 1/3 of the closet space has been wasted.  I suppose more reading needs to ensue for this to take off to it's full potential.

DeathRyder, what method(rye vs brf vs what?) would you recommend since this is a first time experience? Thanks for the links, mate!  I'm in school full time, so I gotta find some time to spend on reading up..

Also, concerning the air system, what if there were to be hole around the bottom of the chamber, with the fan running on a low setting throughout the pinning/fruiting period from the top of the chamber?  There would be a slight input of O2/output CO2 steadily throughout the day...I think this might help to maintain temperature equilibrium throughout the day as well.  We have highs of 90-100 degrees F right now, RH ranging from 40-80% daily, though the seasons are changing right now.  Most you guy will think this is crazy, but there is now in place some duct work stemming off the system in the attic that snakes down through the ceiling of the closet, and ties in with the air system on the top shelf of the closet, sucking in cold air as set on the house thermostat.  I thought this might be a simple way of keeping the temperature down throughout the day, though I still can't seem to keep it under 83F during these summer days.  Suggestions for keeping cool?

Also, my lighting is CWP F40 40watt double florescent hanging lights.  The bulbs themselves are inside the chamber, with the electrical workings outside.  Would this pose any problems, or do i need to upgrade to the CFL's 6500k as recommended by Hellyen?

Kizzle, were you referring to the incubator or grow room to be kept below 80F? Room temp is anywhere between 83-90F average/day right now, though I'm hoping for some cooler weather here in the next month. My goal for consistent temperature throughout the day would be 76-78F for the chamber.. is this typical?

Thanks again for the quick replies and valid information.  I can see a fruitful relationship stemming from this site.  Cheers, all


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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16823584 - 09/10/12 02:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Scrap the incubator all together, you don't need it at all if you're worried about keeping temperatures down.  Since this is your first grow, I strongly recommend starting with the PF Tek so you can get some experience with the procedures involved in cultivation while decreasing the risk of failure.

Concerning your air system, it is still sounding over complicated.  Fresh air exchange is very important, but your idea sounds like it would give too much air exchange, which will dry out your cakes.  If you read a few of the greenhouse threads I have linked in the guide, you will get a better handle on how we operate automated systems.

You need to have lights in the 6500k color spectrum.  If you can find out what color spectrum the bulbs you already have are, we can tell you if they need to be replaced.  Since this setup sounds like a repurposed weed cabinet, I think you will need to change the lights out.

The environment that the substrate is colonizing and fruiting in should be kept between 70f and 80f whenever possible.  This means the the inside of the cabinet should maintain this temperature range, as well as wherever you store your substrates while they colonize.

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16823656 - 09/10/12 02:47 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ya dude you need to ramp that down uhh.... alot
to me this guy sounds smart enough to jump right into bulk but what you need to research is :
a suitable grain tek WBS or rye depending on availability. birthing cakes to a bulk sub works but its a noob activity.
knock up some WBS and spawn it to coir. keep it simple. . focus on being as anal as possible about your sterelization and pasturization teks. look up a monotub and pick a tek and do it once. then go from there


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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #16823669 - 09/10/12 02:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

IMO its harder than growing weed but infinatly more simple


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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #16823682 - 09/10/12 02:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Grumpyorc said:
ya dude you need to ramp that down uhh.... alot
to me this guy sounds smart enough to jump right into bulk but what you need to research is :
a suitable grain tek WBS or rye depending on availability. birthing cakes to a bulk sub works but its a noob activity.
knock up some WBS and spawn it to coir. keep it simple. . focus on being as anal as possible about your sterelization and pasturization teks. look up a monotub and pick a tek and do it once. then go from there




Smart enough for sure, my concern is time and patience.  He can always get his first bulk going at the same time as cakes :thumbup:

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16823729 - 09/10/12 02:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

A 2x8 closet assuming it's 8 feet high is 32 cubic feet. 7-10 exchanges per hour (on the high side) is 220-300 CFH, or about 4-5 CFM. It's easy to dry things out with even a small fan running full time, and in an enclosed space like that with a big CFL you could run into problems trying to satisfy both thermal and moisture concerns.

I think a better way to use the closet would be to grow in monotubs. You could increase the FAE in the closet and the tubs would protect the moisture. You wouldn't need the plastic or exhaust port or fogger and no worries about mold. A couple cheap shelves and you could put a lot of tubs in that size area.


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OfflinePup Tentacle
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16824041 - 09/10/12 03:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheDeathryder said:
He can always get his first bulk going at the same time as cakes :thumbup:




QFT

I did them both at the same time and am very glad I did. My first bulk went horribly wrong. So I ate a shroom I grew on a cake and felt better about the whole duality thing.


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OfflineBrowser
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Pup Tentacle]
    #16824191 - 09/10/12 04:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Get the light out of the chamber. You are going to have trouble and danger with it in the high humidity environment unless it is designed for under water use.

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OfflineJostVanDyke
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Browser]
    #16824326 - 09/10/12 04:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Keep it simple. If you want to use a high tech automated system look into the greenhouse teks on this site.

You already have pretty much everything you need for a really nice automated greenhouse setup. If you have access to mIRC, jump into the cultivation channel and try to talk to Gretchen, she knows her stuff and can help you out with everything, as she has been using this technique for 10 years or more.

As you have spent alot of time researching, I would believe that you could easily do bulk grow as your first grow, but you might want to do a main grow using the PF tek method, and set up a smaller bulk grow using just 1 monotub, 6-8 quarts of spawn, and some vermiculite and coir as your substrate.

In my opinion, if you're going to be spending a lot of money I would spend my money on a flow hood, or a really nice glove box. The more sterile your project is, the better your results will be.

If you have any questions you want answered just shoot me a PM.


--------------------
-JVD

I'll do anything I can to help anyone. I have a little over 2 years of growing experience so if you have a question on anything just shoot me a PM and i'll do my best to help you.

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InvisibleUnd3rtow623
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: JostVanDyke]
    #16825457 - 09/10/12 07:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, I was not expecting this much love on here... thx again to all for their time, links, and advice.

Apparently, I have been following some older info and needed to revamp. 

Updates:
Ordering some 6500k full color spectrum florescent bulbs, after redoing the ceiling of the chamber so that all of the lighting is on the outside of the chamber(even though only the bulbs were on the inside to begin with).  Great advice since I was already having trouble with heat.

Thinking for the first run, working with 10 .5pt jars - 5 cakes spread out on perlite, 5 cakes mixed with coir

At the same time, employing Monstermitch's WBS method and using 5-6 mono tub coir method.  Would I need to use liq inoculation for this, or would a spore syringe suffice?

Honestly, it was planned to work with cakes until a little experience was achieved before running with birdseed or rye, as well as wanting to isolate a successful cap's genome via tissue culturing (I have had a little experience here for horticulture purposes, but nothing yet in mycology).  Would it be okay to work with birdseed all the while using spores syringes from a vendor?

Also, DeathRyder, what would you say if I installed my humidifier into my air filtration system, so that the air system would not kick on unless the humidity needed adjusting?  If I installed a shelf on the top on the chamber to house the 5gal bucket(w/ the single disk fogger inside), running the air line through the bucket, pushing the CO2 out the bottom of the chamber with moist filtered air(I would make holes in this case to push the heavier of the two gases out).

Also, has anyone devised alternate way of cooling down a chamber?  It's hot as fuck here... going to have to adapt to the changing climate..

Thanks again all.  There is a river of knowledge here

Edited by Und3rtow623 (09/10/12 10:42 PM)

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16825479 - 09/10/12 07:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Und3rtow623 said:

Honestly, it was planned to work with cakes until a little experience was achieved before running with birdseed or rye,





Good Job..... :asianofapproval:

I wish u the best of luck in this wonderful hobby!

Edited by PussyFart (09/10/12 07:56 PM)

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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16825546 - 09/10/12 08:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You can inoculate WBS with a spore syringe, just don't shake it until it's about 33% colonized.  This is particularly important after inoculation because you want the spores as close together as possible.

You'll need the air to kick on each hour to bring in fresh air.  You could achieve your FAE and humidity needs at the same time by putting your bucket and fogger on the outside of the cabinet and pipe it in.  The fan that blows fresh air into the bucket will push fresh, humid air into the FC, pushing the old CO2 laden air out at the same time.  Keep in mind that cubes benefit from periodic drops in the RH, so you might set your fan to come on, clear the chamber, then have the fogger come on to replace the humidity and let the fogger and fan turn off at the same time.

As for cooling the chamber down, I think the easiest way is going to be to cool the room down.  If you can get a window unit a/c in there, that should do the trick.  You might try ice in the bucket, but I have no idea how that would affect your fogger, so try that at your own risk.

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InvisibleUnd3rtow623
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16825612 - 09/10/12 08:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

**"Keep in mind that cubes benefit from periodic drops in the RH, so you might set your fan to come on, clear the chamber, then have the fogger come on to replace the humidity and let the fogger and fan turn off at the same time."


brilliant

thx, again. will tweak with some more

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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: Und3rtow623]
    #16825625 - 09/10/12 08:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Any time bro!  Get us some pics when you can :smile:

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OfflineJostVanDyke
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16826041 - 09/10/12 09:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Great job on the new bulbs, and moving them outside of the greenhouse so that your temps aren't affected.

Another great idea to try the normal PF Tek method and the modified PF/Coir method at the same time to test results.

I think you will like the WBS to Verm/Coir bulk method. I personally like to use Organic Rye Berries over WBS but it is indeed more expensive, and harder to find than WBS. I just like it more because it's esier for me to get perfect water content, and I have much less of a mess when using rye over WBS. You can use MS or LC for spawning to bulk. LC is generally quicker, but MS is also good and works as well.

If you feel that you should stick to the PF Tek for now, than I would definitely just do that. If you aren't 100% comfortable with your research on bulk, then stick to PF Tek. Then you can use your strongest fruits from the PF Tek grows to make clones, agar, lc's, all that and have STRONGER, quicker growing mycelium for your bulk grows when you are ready.

Remove the vendors name from your post and replace it with "a vendor" or something along those lines. Some people are very picky about this and will get angry that you mentioned a vendor in the same post as growing.

Your humidifier and air filtration idea sound pretty solid to me.

Either a small window AC unit or even one of those floor air conditioners would suffice in cooling the room down, but like you said it wont be long before the weather changes and helps with this a lot.

Keep us updated man! Good luck, and good vibes!


--------------------
-JVD

I'll do anything I can to help anyone. I have a little over 2 years of growing experience so if you have a question on anything just shoot me a PM and i'll do my best to help you.

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Offlinezepski
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Re: Getting started - this is what we're working with *first time poster [Re: JostVanDyke]
    #16826050 - 09/10/12 09:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

We only get mad because its a rule...

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