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Offlineblthirteenre
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WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)?
    #16811167 - 09/08/12 01:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure if pictures are necessary, but I will take some if need be.

Almost two months ago, I decided to buy 3 dozen quart jars on top of my already 2 dozen and just try to make as much bird seeds as possible. I have done so successfully thru inoculation a number of times in the past, but with only a 50% success rate. I decided that I wanted to try grain to grain.

As far as the jars that ended up not colonizing successfully thru inoculation, I always knew that it was because there was too much moisture content. I always tried my best to drain the bird seeds, but apparently to no avail.

So, I did G2G with about 60 quart jars, and 50 colonized successfully. The other 10 started to colonize, but never finished and ended up getting slimy.

I ended up, over time, making 10 monotubs with cocoa brick, verm, and coffee. EVERY SINGLE ONE FAILED. I have never experienced such failure with the inoculated spawn, and the only difference between this time and the other times is G2G.

Because I used 5 quarts of spawn at once, I understand that it only takes 1 of the 5 quarts to be bad in order for the monotub to fail and contaminate.

Has this ever happened to anyone? Is there a risk involved with G2G that sometimes it will colonize even tho it's bad spawn? Is there anything I can do next time to avoid this? I ended up wasting literally almost 2 months, and plenty of money on supplies. Please, I will appreciate any insight.

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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16811190 - 09/08/12 01:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

if your gonna use coffee in your coir/verm sub i would use more than 5qts of spawn.  and how are your prepping your wbs?  coffee can contam very very easily if you dont pasturize your sub really well.  what tek were you using to prep your sub.

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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: twistedty]
    #16811200 - 09/08/12 01:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i use damions coir tek with 10qts of spawn instead of 5 with little bit of extra water.  this way it colinizes the sub really really fast.

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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: twistedty]
    #16811236 - 09/08/12 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

How fresh was the coffee you used?  Did you use the old grounds from Starbucks, or did you brew a few fresh pots while making your substrate?

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16811378 - 09/08/12 01:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I forget the name of tek or the author,

but it was 1 cocoa brick, 1 gallon of water, 1 quarts of verm and 5 quarts of spawn.

My friend taught me how to do it; I didn't read one of these teks and learn, but I found a link (in the past) for the tek he obviously learned from in case I was unsure about any of the directions.

It could have been the coffee, actually.

Can you provide me with the 10 quart of spawn tek?

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OfflineTheDeathryder
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16811448 - 09/08/12 02:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blthirteenre said:
Can you provide me with the 10 quart of spawn tek?




It's not a tek (at least I don't think it is).  He's referring to using 10 quarts of spawn with your substrate.  Basically he's saying use 10 quarts of spawn instead of 5 quarts of spawn with your substrate.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16811520 - 09/08/12 02:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: PussyFart]
    #16811547 - 09/08/12 02:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
TLs one flush wonder tek?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14507008#14507008




there it is.  colonizes so fast it will blow your mind.  but limits flushes to an extent.

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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: twistedty]
    #16811576 - 09/08/12 02:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i do

1 brick coir

2 qts verm

7-10 qts spawn (w/e i have laying around)

4-4.5 qts water.

sorry not exact measurments i usually just wing field capacity.

with the extras spawn ive had fully colinized substrate with pins in less than 10 days

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: twistedty]
    #16811627 - 09/08/12 02:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
if your gonna use coffee in your coir/verm sub i would use more than 5qts of spawn.  and how are your prepping your wbs?  coffee can contam very very easily if you dont pasturize your sub really well.  what tek were you using to prep your sub.



Quote:

twistedty said:
i use damions coir tek with 10qts of spawn instead of 5 with little bit of extra water.  this way it colinizes the sub really really fast.



When I started using coffee Damions tek spoiled a tray, a monotub, and a cool gallon jug minitub thingy i did. I had some successes but eventually I switched. I literally switched pasturization methods becasue of coffee.  Damions tek IMO is not sufficient. Here is a tek that works no matter what you add to your sub. I have never had a contam in my bulk sub since i started using ithttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11855255#11855255

IMO coffee is what did you in


--------------------

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #16812898 - 09/08/12 06:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I prepared the bird seed by first draining them, then letting them sit over night submerged in water in a 5 gallon bucket. Then I would let it drain until there was no water left, but I could probably use a better strainer. Is there some sort of specific device that is best for draining the bird seeds?

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16812912 - 09/08/12 06:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

just get a wire mesh strainer....and simmering them makes them steam dry pretty quick

u could also use a metal window screen

Edited by PussyFart (09/08/12 06:27 PM)

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OfflineLukeSitewalker
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: twistedty]
    #16813021 - 09/08/12 06:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Very interesting piece of info you put in there. I may not use your exact method/tek, but I what i do take away from your post is that using the extra jars of spawn will possibly make my tub pin alot faster, with possibly less contams. I dont use coffee under any circumstances. In my opinion the possible extra fruiting or size or faster production you would get from using coffee, is NOT worth the high likelyhood of a contamination from not using the right coffee in the right way, ie not being fresh enough, or using too much, or not mixing it correctly, a million things can go wrong. I have yet to use coffee to back up my theory, but from what ive researched its not worth it. Theres lots of other additives that will do a better job, such as oyster shells, worm castings, or even more spawn as you mentioned, or more coir. I think coffee may be too acidic and/or nutritive. Again, just a theory, but one im not ready to test out at this time.


--------------------
MY TRADE LIST! Lets Make A Deal!

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: LukeSitewalker]
    #16813157 - 09/08/12 07:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

OH wow, you know, I used to simmer them but I have since forgotten to do that. That makes ALOT of sense. And as far as the wire mesh strainer, I know exactly what you're talking about and I will get it tomorrow. Thanks very much; I believe this help will solve my problems.

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16813247 - 09/08/12 07:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You can put a small clump of grains on a sheet of toilet paper to see if they are completely dried before loading the jars. If they don't leave any wet marks you'll know for sure they're ready to use.

I bet that the simmering will make a big difference for you. I had the same problem when I first started WBS because, even though I was boiling them after the soak, I was rinsing after I boiled and it was cooling them down so they took forever to dry.


--------------------

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: Kizzle]
    #16813477 - 09/08/12 08:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Got it. Thanks.

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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16813514 - 09/08/12 08:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

and i wouldnt advise using coffee and trying to get more than 3 flushes w/o contams

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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: LukeSitewalker]
    #16813529 - 09/08/12 08:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LukeSitewalker said:
Very interesting piece of info you put in there. I may not use your exact method/tek, but I what i do take away from your post is that using the extra jars of spawn will possibly make my tub pin alot faster, with possibly less contams. I dont use coffee under any circumstances. In my opinion the possible extra fruiting or size or faster production you would get from using coffee, is NOT worth the high likelyhood of a contamination from not using the right coffee in the right way, ie not being fresh enough, or using too much, or not mixing it correctly, a million things can go wrong. I have yet to use coffee to back up my theory, but from what ive researched its not worth it. Theres lots of other additives that will do a better job, such as oyster shells, worm castings, or even more spawn as you mentioned, or more coir. I think coffee may be too acidic and/or nutritive. Again, just a theory, but one im not ready to test out at this time.





if you have used damions tek, you will love using 2x the amount of spawn and lil extra water for super fast colinize times.

thx trancendinglife

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: blthirteenre]
    #16813636 - 09/08/12 09:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blthirteenre said:
I'm not sure if pictures are necessary, but I will take some if need be.

Almost two months ago, I decided to buy 3 dozen quart jars on top of my already 2 dozen and just try to make as much bird seeds as possible. I have done so successfully thru inoculation a number of times in the past, but with only a 50% success rate. I decided that I wanted to try grain to grain.

As far as the jars that ended up not colonizing successfully thru inoculation, I always knew that it was because there was too much moisture content. I always tried my best to drain the bird seeds, but apparently to no avail.

So, I did G2G with about 60 quart jars, and 50 colonized successfully. The other 10 started to colonize, but never finished and ended up getting slimy.

I ended up, over time, making 10 monotubs with cocoa brick, verm, and coffee. EVERY SINGLE ONE FAILED. I have never experienced such failure with the inoculated spawn, and the only difference between this time and the other times is G2G.

Because I used 5 quarts of spawn at once, I understand that it only takes 1 of the 5 quarts to be bad in order for the monotub to fail and contaminate.

Has this ever happened to anyone? Is there a risk involved with G2G that sometimes it will colonize even tho it's bad spawn? Is there anything I can do next time to avoid this? I ended up wasting literally almost 2 months, and plenty of money on supplies. Please, I will appreciate any insight.




Without reading the other replies I can tell you something that is wrong, very wrong, already. Your blaming water content on your failures is false. It is very unlikely that water content caused contams or failures. People here go over board on water content. There is not an exact % of water that is needed to grow mushrooms. There is an ideal % that is needed for optimum growth,yeilds, etc. You could possibly get away with making a soup out of the grain and still get away with it. Water does not cause contams. Contams cause them. Cracked grain is more prone to contams than none cracked. For you to blame your water content for your problems you would eitehr have to be extremely low. Like 1/8 cup of water to 3 cups of grain. Or 3 cups of water to 1/8th cup of grain. I doubt you did either. I am positive that you messed up somewhere else.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: tahoe]
    #16814277 - 09/08/12 10:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, that's interesting. I will keep that in mind.

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: LukeSitewalker]
    #16814394 - 09/08/12 11:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LukeSitewalker said:
Very interesting piece of info you put in there. I may not use your exact method/tek, but I what i do take away from your post is that using the extra jars of spawn will possibly make my tub pin alot faster, with possibly less contams. I dont use coffee under any circumstances. In my opinion the possible extra fruiting or size or faster production you would get from using coffee, is NOT worth the high likelyhood of a contamination from not using the right coffee in the right way, ie not being fresh enough, or using too much, or not mixing it correctly, a million things can go wrong. I have yet to use coffee to back up my theory, but from what ive researched its not worth it. Theres lots of other additives that will do a better job, such as oyster shells, worm castings, or even more spawn as you mentioned, or more coir. I think coffee may be too acidic and/or nutritive. Again, just a theory, but one im not ready to test out at this time.




Ya you should try it before you go talking about it like some kind of expert.
Coffee is an incredible additive. Oyster shells and worm castings can suck my balls
I'v gone up to 7 flushes with it, because I pasturize it correctly, i don't just dump hot water on it
In short it IS worth it. TOTALLY WORTH IT. you just can half ass anything when your using it.
i soak my grains in coffee and add 10% to my bulk sub. you have to sterelize your jars for 2 hours but again totally worth it.
Use coffee, master your teks, and you will see a dramatic increase in both yield ANd speed.

the only thing that helps more than coffee is gypsum. if your not using gypsum yet get some.


--------------------

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Offlineblthirteenre
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Re: WHAT DID I DO WRONG (GRAIN TO GRAIN)? [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #16818321 - 09/09/12 04:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Okay. Yeah, I have yet to try gypsum. My friend told me that gypsum is the same thing as dry wall. I will try it tho (gypsum, not dry wall).

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