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OfflineMalachi
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why we ought to debate -isms
    #1677868 - 07/01/03 09:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think that it would be heplful if we debated as defenders of different schools of thought so that the distinctions between them (the various solutions to classic problems) are more readily apparent.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Malachi]
    #1677901 - 07/01/03 10:04 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

well, the first division was dealt with previously as skeptic-believer.

this would translate, I think, into belief in the existence of god / non-belief in god.



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Malachi]
    #1677986 - 07/01/03 10:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I dont understand what are are askin, or trying to say..?


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1678458 - 07/02/03 01:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm trying to get people to defend -isms. like utilitarianism or posivitism or liberalism or christianity or whatever - so that we have a set up for contrasting moral views. apparently (predictably) people aren't more than willing to box themselves into a particular identifiable "-ism". people like to cop out and say things like "I don't limit myself" of "I have dynamic, evolving beliefs".

now, I'm not saying that having dynamic beliefs is "wrong" per se, I'm just saying it's not very argumentative.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineElvish
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Malachi]
    #1678537 - 07/02/03 01:54 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Argumentativism VS Dynamism!!
Versus vs. Cooperation
vs. Individuality duality Individuality...duality.
verses of versus.
(sigh) anyways...playing with concepts can be fun.
but.


...in order to 'defend' shouldn't you first define?
This alone may lead to an understanding.
Relative absolutism or absolute relativism?
but I'm hedging...you're right..defining and defending such abstract directions is so time consuming and confusing,not that confusion can't be fun! :nut: 


So, who up first?
 


Edited by Elvish (07/02/03 02:01 AM)


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OfflineElvish
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Elvish]
    #1678571 - 07/02/03 02:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Oh ...yeah...
(announcer voice:)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNnnn
this corner weighing a solid fuckin' TON of established rightousness ........................ BELIEF IN GOD!!!!!!!!
yay!
...and in this corner...the wiley, acidic wit of ....
NON-BELIEF!!!!! YEY!!



(Janey May!! goin' get papa his Webster's dictionary!)


Edited by Elvish (07/02/03 02:09 AM)


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Elvish]
    #1678629 - 07/02/03 02:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, that's basically it. so why not faith? why faith? pascal aside, and besides experiential info, why faith?

I haven't heard a reason for god that is adequate. I've had an experience of god, but my (and the only experiences that I consider valid in others) experience was, to say the least, quite mystical, esoteric, and unreasonable.

therefore, I think people ought not to believe in god (in general).


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Malachi]
    #1678718 - 07/02/03 02:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Not that I am taking a position of trying to prove God, but, why must others experiences be valid to you, to be valid for them?  You said that you've not heard an adequate reason.  For you maybe, but for others it is.  That is their reality, not yours, if they are happy with their belief, so be it.

Quote:

  I've had an experience of god



Quote:

therefore, I think people ought not to believe in god 




  :confused:  Is it just me?

Then to my tangent of all kind of isms.

Sorry, but this constable in Houston that was recently busted for corruption had something funny to say about isms.

Read the quote about half way down the page. "All kind of isms."

In the middle of the page, "Request Line" , Listeners favorite audio clips ( you need not scroll down after opening the page) Perry Wooten, "All kind of isms."  Here to listen.   


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1678747 - 07/02/03 02:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I was using "reason" in it's formal sense.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineElvish
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1678769 - 07/02/03 03:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It's not so fun when your the one with your ass in a bind, is it Constable? But anyways...
Hagbard's comments aside.
Let see...lets get this rusty assed God machine rolling...
(Punchin' buttons, Pullin' levels, twistin' nipples...)
Okay...well..once again...definition time...what IS this GOD that we are debating?
An old white beard behind the curtain, controlling this particular slice of the universe? Or the current that directs evolution?
Or the superior Alien species that Mutated Earthling Women/Apes?
(Genesis 6.2)


Edited by Elvish (07/02/03 03:10 AM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: why we ought to debate -isms [Re: Malachi]
    #1678962 - 07/02/03 04:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

besides experiential info, why faith?




I used to dismiss faith as stupid, because its entire foundation is blind trust in authority, which is both unhealthy and dangerous.

But I have changed my mind over the years, because I have met so many people who are doing good things that seem to be motivated by their faith. I now think of faith as a tool for spiritual advancement. It doesn't work for everyone (not me for example), but it obviously has certain merits, if used in a responsible way.


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