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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
no such thing as too much killin' power
    #1677727 - 07/01/03 08:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

This from The Guardian (Also one here from the BBC).

--------------------------------------------------------------

US-based missiles to have global reach

Allies to become less important as new generation of weapons enables America to strike anywhere from its own territory

Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday July 1, 2003
The Guardian

The Pentagon is planning a new generation of weapons, including huge hypersonic drones and bombs dropped from space, that will allow the US to strike its enemies at lightning speed from its own territory.

Over the next 25 years, the new technology would free the US from dependence on forward bases and the cooperation of regional allies, part of the drive towards self-suffi ciency spurred by the difficulties of gaining international cooperation for the invasion of Iraq.

The new weapons are being developed under a programme codenamed Falcon (Force Application and Launch from the Continental US).

A US defence website has invited bids from contractors to develop the technology and the current edition of Jane's Defence Weekly reports that the first flight tests are scheduled to take place within three years.

According to the website run by the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) the programme is aimed at fulfilling "the government's vision of an ultimate prompt global reach capability (circa 2025 and beyond)".

The Falcon technology would "free the US military from reliance on forward basing to enable it to react promptly and decisively to destabilising or threatening actions by hostile countries and terrorist organisations", according to the Darpa invitation for bids. The ultimate goal would be a "reusable hypersonic cruise vehicle (HCV) ... capable of taking off from a conventional military runway and striking targets 9,000 nautical miles distant in less than two hours".

The unmanned HCV would carry a payload of up to 12,000 lbs and could ultimately fly at speeds of up to 10 times the speed of sound, according to Daniel Goure, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute in Washington.

Propelling a warhead of that size at those speeds poses serious technological challenges and Darpa estimates it will take more than 20 years to develop.

Over the next seven years, meanwhile, the US air force and Darpa will develop a cheaper "global reach" weapons system relying on expendable rocket boosters, known as small launch vehicles (SLV) that would take a warhead into space and drop it over its target.

In US defence jargon, the warhead is known as a Com mon Aero Vehicle (Cav), an unpowered bomb which would be guided on to its target as it plummeted to earth at high and accelerating velocity.

The Cav could carry 1,000 lbs of explosives but at those speeds explosives may not be necessary. A simple titanium rod would be able to penetrate 70 feet of solid rock and the shock wave would have enormous destructive force. It could be used against deeply buried bunkers, the sort of target the air force is looking for new ways to attack.

Jane's Defence Weekly reported that the first Cav flight demonstration is provisionally scheduled by mid-2006, and the first SLV flight exercise would take place the next year. A test of the two systems combined would be carried out by late 2007.

A prototype demonstrating HCV technology would be tested in 2009.

SLV rockets will also give the air force a cheap and flexible means to launch military satellites at short notice, within weeks, days or even hours of a crisis developing.

The SLV-Cav combination, according to the Darpa document, "will provide a near-term (approximately 2010) operational capability for prompt global strike from Consus (the continental US) while also enabling future development of a reusable HCV for the far-term (approximately 2025)". The range of this weapon is unclear.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, still no cure for cancer or AIDS...


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Edame]
    #1677731 - 07/01/03 08:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Very good news.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Edame]
    #1679279 - 07/02/03 06:55 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You can kill my father
You can kill my son
You can kill my children
With a gun...
You can kill my family
My family tree

You can kill my body, baby...
You can kill my body, baby...
But you can't kill me


--Gong (Camembert Electrique, 1971)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Edame]
    #1679309 - 07/02/03 07:17 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

cool.. :thumbup:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1679500 - 07/02/03 09:18 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Define whats cool about it.


--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1679772 - 07/02/03 10:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Define what's not cool about it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1679785 - 07/02/03 10:50 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sounds good to me.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1679801 - 07/02/03 10:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What a reply (y)
Things that are not cool about it :

Its a weapon, designed to kill people, and for a fact, your country may be good at that one, a war isnt won with pure killin'power only.
A war is so much more complex than 'bomb them away as fast as you can'
The modern world has changed a lot, as if OBL will be stopped by hearing these details on supersonic bombers.
Nor any industrialised land will be intimidated, i cant see how china, russia or any european country would ever succumb to american power because of these bombers.
At last, these projects cost a lot of money, more than they will ever bring in, that money comes from the local taxpayer who has enough problems paying off all his bills.


--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1679845 - 07/02/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

great, i'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, opinions are a great thing.

My opinion? I think the technology is cool.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1679867 - 07/02/03 11:17 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well lets just get rid of our armed forces, and give all the poor people all the money. Hell, lets pay them not to work at all! There is a reason we are the most powerful nation in the world. We don't know what the future holds. Warfare changes over time.

Having the advantage of superior weaponry, is a big thing when dealing with a rogue nation. Sometimes it can be used to avoid conflict all together. I am not to worried about the stuff in the article happening any time soon anyway. As the administrations change, so will the policy.

The world climate at the time dictates a lot when it comes to defense spending. When there are threats out there, more is spent. The Cold War is the best example. After it, some thought we didn't need all this stuff anymore, so they slashed spending. They slashed it to much though, and our armed forces are still trying to come back from it.

One thing throughout our countries history is true, when we really have to win a fight, we will sacrifice what is necessary to win. Think about this for a minute. What if the US never got into any of the conflicts that have happened in the last 200 years that were not on our soil. WW2 would have been much different, Hitler might have one. No one likes us when we go out on a limb to do what is right. Unless we are helping them. All of the Middle East surely is pissed for what we have done in Iraq. All except the Iraqis that don't have to live under Sadam's rule anymore. Sorry to get off topic, but this issue is important to me. I don't want this country to be left to conquest. This world is not as civilized as some of our ideals would like. I for one do not want anyone else running the show in this country, than our citizens.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Edame]
    #1679965 - 07/02/03 11:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I guess I'm one of the few that finds this news very disturbing...yes not surprising at all. You would think with the end of the cold war that there would be no need to continue the arms race...but now that the U.S. is involved in "perpetual war" (sounds a little Orwellian wouldn't you say?) I suspect that many will be praising this technology so that they can "defend" themselves pre-emptively from those pesky brown folks.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineBetMomIsProud
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Registered: 05/15/03
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: shakta]
    #1679971 - 07/02/03 11:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:
A war is so much more complex than 'bomb them away as fast as you can'

Really? How so? If you kill everyone on the opposing side immediately, how is the war going to progress? Hard to bargain or reason with the corpses... The reality of the situation is this: There are no rules to fighting. IF you think differently, you're the sorry chap who will be killed in the next fight. The key to winning a fight is to hit the opponent so hard so quickly that they have no choice but to give up. It's how we ended WW2. Now the question is this: Is it better for America to risk the lives of its fighting men and women in needless ground conflicts if we can blast an entire country, or is the loss of life on both sides the better way? Hmmmm... The only thing sad about war and fighting is that we still do it. As long as unporvoked attacks on America persit, do you really think the gov't is going to stop making bigger, better weapons?


--------------------
Nothing is idiot proof. Just need a real talented idiot.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1679991 - 07/02/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If you kill everyone on the opposing side immediately, how is the war going to progress? Hard to bargain or reason with the corpses...


The problem with that logic is that if everyone thought that way, I can guarantee you the U.S. would be a huge sheet of glass right now.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: shakta]
    #1679998 - 07/02/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Well lets just get rid of our armed forces, and give all the poor people all the money. Hell, lets pay them not to work at all! There is a reason we are the most powerful nation in the world. We don't know what the future holds. Warfare changes over time.




The reason why America is the most powerful nation in the world is their economy, their army comes at second place.
And i think America does realise this all too well, the day their economy bursts is the end of the last superpower, and its coming closer if i have to believe the various charts.
They use their army to ensure economic intrests, not to ensure peace.
The reason why i bring up the money issue is because the money could be spent a lot better overthere.
You forgot that there is a basic rule in capitalism, winners and losers, we cant be all rich, no Western World without a Third or Fourth World.
No rich without poor.
However, we can improve the living standard of the poor. And in the longtime run, we will have to make some substantial change to our way of living if we want the whole world at peace and prosperity.
Quote:


Having the advantage of superior weaponry, is a big thing when dealing with a rogue nation. Sometimes it can be used to avoid conflict all together. I am not to worried about the stuff in the article happening any time soon anyway. As the administrations change, so will the policy.




Rogue states arent that evil as american news tries to make them look.
Do you really believe NKorea or Iraq could takeover the world?
Let alone America could do it.
Nkorea is a perfect example of what these superweapons inflict, NKorea is so much more than the evil country ruled by Kim Il Jung II.
It wants a position in the world, but it doesnt get any, because they have chosen the wrong side, they chose for communism.
But the world doenst give them any 2nd chance.
Roque states mostly didnt chose for becoming one.
The battle between the superpowers, between the rich and the poor is one of the many reasons why countries get fucked up.
Without an America, there wouldnt be a NorthKorea, nor an Afghanistan.
Look at afghanistan, a roque country.
Excuse me, but its a total mess, you defeated the taliban in a record time. But this was only the inital war phase. And the only one america is good at, you have no talent at all at peacekeeping or holding the things in place.
Same with Iraq, 1 american a day dies there.
The Democracy is on hold cause the iraqi ppl doesnt want what the american government wants (a pro-western democratic government vs a democratic conservative religious government).
So do you really can call this a victory?
I call this a crusade, only a matter of time when the crusaders will die of age and be kicked out again.

Quote:


The world climate at the time dictates a lot when it comes to defense spending. When there are threats out there, more is spent. The Cold War is the best example. After it, some thought we didn't need all this stuff anymore, so they slashed spending. They slashed it to much though, and our armed forces are still trying to come back from it.




As if communism was ever a threat to the western world, no, we made it a threat. Try to imagine what could have been realised when they decided not to start a cold war but a relation of mutual trust and respect.
The fault doesnt lie with America nor Russia, it lies sadly within man, the hunger for more power.
Btw, did you ever thought about te fact that the World climate is highly influenced by the World players (thus America).
Quote:


One thing throughout our countries history is true, when we really have to win a fight, we will sacrifice what is necessary to win. Think about this for a minute. What if the US never got into any of the conflicts that have happened in the last 200 years that were not on our soil. WW2 would have been much different, Hitler might have one. No one likes us when we go out on a limb to do what is right. Unless we are helping them. All of the Middle East surely is pissed for what we have done in Iraq. All except the Iraqis that don't have to live under Sadam's rule anymore. Sorry to get off topic, but this issue is important to me. I don't want this country to be left to conquest. This world is not as civilized as some of our ideals would like. I for one do not want anyone else running the show in this country, than our citizens.




Hah, but you love it when Iraqi is under Bush's rule?
You love it when your country runs a lot of countries.
Did you think that america made always right choices to join wars?
Its merely a way to defend their economic values or to stop the advance of enemy.
Why did america involve in NKorea and Vietnam, but not into most african wars? (or liberia like the international community is asking right now)
Maybe because communism wasnt a threat to these ppl? Only knifes were, and those only kill ppl. Communism however is so much more deadlier.
Btw, dont forget you werent the only saviors of the world in WW2, you all seem eagerly to deny the role of the USSR in the victory of the allies.
In my point of view, Russia is a bigger savior to Europe than the USA.



// I realize there are a lot of discussions in this post, and a lot of them are highly debatable.
However, i only wish to express my opinion / point of view on these issues.








--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1680012 - 07/02/03 12:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Really? How so? If you kill everyone on the opposing side immediately, how is the war going to progress? Hard to bargain or reason with the corpses... The reality of the situation is this:
There are no rules to fighting. IF you think differently, you're the sorry chap who will be killed in the next fight. The key to winning a fight is to hit the opponent so hard so quickly that they have no choice but to give up. It's how we ended WW2. Now the question is this: Is it better for America to risk the lives of its fighting men and women in needless ground conflicts if we can blast an entire country, or is the loss of life on both sides the better way? Hmmmm... The only thing sad about war and fighting is that we still do it. As long as unporvoked attacks on America persit, do you really think the gov't is going to stop making bigger, better weapons?




hah, so the war isnt over yet in Iraq cause i see a lot of Iraqi's kickin and alive on tv. And even some of them express anti-american feelins. Wow, can you even live with such an defeat in your face?
Unprovoked attacks on America, when, where?
So OBL started a war? Get over it, its was a fucking act of terrorism, no more, no less.
You are not the only country where ppl die due to terrorists, yet you are the only country who tries to solve it with bombs.
So what you are saying is that GB should bomb Ireland away?
Or France Algeria?
Or USA GB? (cause in case you didnt know, the financial heart of terrorism lies in London)


--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (07/02/03 12:17 PM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1680168 - 07/02/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

As if communism was ever a threat to the western world, no, we made it a threat. Try to imagine what could have been realised when they decided not to start a cold war but a relation of mutual trust and respect.




Tell that to the thousands of people who where killed by the communists in Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, Hungary, etc. Or maybe these countries were too central-european to count as parts of "the western world"?

And please tell me how you start a relation of mutual trust and respect with communists, after they have murdered tens of millions of their own population in less than a decade?


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Anonymous

Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1680173 - 07/02/03 01:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

and christening an iron curtain + appeasing Stalin helped?


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1680189 - 07/02/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

But would these ppl have survived under the rule of a tsar?
It was not the best way to a step forward, but it was one.
The living standards of the average man under the tsar regime were much worse.

And as if America's blaze is as clean as can be?
Tell that to the various dicator regimes it helped/helps.



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Dava]
    #1680305 - 07/02/03 02:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But would these ppl have survived under the rule of a tsar?




What tsar? If you mean Nicholas II you probably already know that he abdicated in march 1917, and that a democratic government replaced his rule. Lenin's coup six months later put an end to that, and then the communists started murdering people.

It's not hard to understand: communism == mass murder.

Why are there still people around who try to justify this evil?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: no such thing as too much killin' power [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1680314 - 07/02/03 02:21 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Great horrors were inflicted under Communist rule, but that does not in itself make Communism inherently evil. I believe it is inherently impractical, but not necessarily evil. I'm sure that Karl Marx had the best of intentions when he wrote his manifesto.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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