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Offlinedgonz64
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Registered: 08/29/12
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Are upper levels desirable?
    #16752808 - 08/29/12 09:13 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I have tripped a lot with mushrooms I grow. They have gifted me with some of the best decisions in my life. I also really love the sense of novelty in everything. I often use them just for pure recreational purposes.

Sometimes I want to sort things up so I increase the dosage. The more I take, the deeper my thoughts go. But when I surpass 3 g I am in the danger of having one of my bad trips. I will call this the black zone (the level 4, I think). So, to summarize, the more I take, the better spiritual advise I get but also it increases my possibility to end in the black zone.

Now my bad trips are not monsters nor fears I have. It's a very confusing state in which the concepts mix up (again, looks like level 4). This is some of the things I think:

  • "Everything is the same thing". As physicist are looking for the great unification theory, my brain thinks it sees it clearly.
  • "Thus the universe is me. God is me". With God as the laws of the physics and the history of the universe. I know we are star dust so the universe is in us, but here the fusion is overwhelming complete.
  • "The universe doesn't exist and I am making it up. The life is a lie and I am just imagining it". This is the most frightening thought as I think I don't exist at all. This might be true but useless to think.
  • "My memory is all I have but the remembrances have been implanted". Of course memory is us and of course it's been implanted... but by our senses and reality. Here I think nothing I remember has really happened.
  • "Everything I know is everything that exists". That one is easy to deny and to explain why it's wrong, but in the dark zone it seems true.
  • "I have lost everything". Of course, if I live a lie.
  • "I'm destroying the universe by finding this ultimate truth". I'm destroying the universe except my stomach, that still hurts. Also I come to this conclusion with my two hands in the head as in "what I have done". Funny but painful.


I know about bad trips and how to handle them but not mater what I do, these thoughts accompany me like an annoying passenger, being in the shower, in the bed, with or without music and with lights on or off. The last time this happened to me it was particularly sad because hugging my wife (something I didn't try other times) was no use at all and she contemplated how I was collapsing while saying things like "we are alive and dead at the same time" or "I have completely lost contact with reality" or "I can't stop my brain and this is tiresome". But thankfully I put an end to this trip with lorazepam.

One way to explain this is by accepting the logic is fucked up in the dark zone but I wonder... how much true can it be? What if I pull the thread? Can I end thinking all the above affirmations are true and we are in Matrix? (here Matrix would mean, is the world so much different from what we think it is?). It's like if shrooms are trying to wake me up from a huge lie that I can't see while sober. Here psilocybes become my own sect.

Now the questions.

  • Is it useful to wonder if this dark zone is a shadow in my mind (something I don't want to accept or face while sober)? So, should I insist in being there? I am mostly in peace with the world, my life has not been particularly hard and I don't have any traumas to remember (except these bad trips, hehe). My belief here is that it will not yield anything good but I wanted to ask.
  • Talking about shadows, may this be just fear to the death? This would surprise me because death doesn't frighten me much... or I think so.
  • How do you deal with these infinities in trips? Do you prefer to avoid it too or can you get something from it? Do you suffer or enjoy?
  • The thoughts that time or space doesn't exist does frighten you as much as me? I mean, do you like level 4 and its (perhaps false) epiphanies?
  • If this is level 4 (I recognize the objects) I don't want to imagine how level 5 is. Do you stand level 5?


I know I could answer some these questions by reading more on the subjects and becoming an expert in psychology but maybe some of you can enlighten me much faster. Also I'm sorry if this is been extensively debated. I tried the search button.


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OfflineKief Ledger
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16752888 - 08/29/12 09:46 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Haha,  personally I love all the random thoughts and loops.  Yes it can get a bit overwhelming sometimes. 
But to awnser your question, IMO once you hit ego death, there are no more thoughts, there is no more you. You are just aware.


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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16752897 - 08/29/12 09:49 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Even if all these things are true, does it really matter? does it matter if you are not real? I think of life as a game, whether its real or not, i play the game like its real, but at the same time i try to squeeze as much enjoyment out of everyday as i can. When i have thoughts like these, I consider whether its important or not. one trip i had, i was certain that my brothers where conspiring to have an intervention about my acid abuse, and i was very self conscious about it and afraid, but after awhile i realized, they arent bothering me now so it doesnt matter. I decided, ill worry about it when it happens, so for the rest of the trip i didnt worry about it because there was no intervention.

I dont think youll ever stop these thoughts, i think they are very common thoughts at higher level doses, but the key is understanding whats important and what is irrelevant.


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: sailing]
    #16752905 - 08/29/12 09:53 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

if you have time, i think this video might help you make sense of the universe



--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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Offlinesearching
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: sailing]
    #16752972 - 08/29/12 10:21 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I think if you go.into the higher doses you need to be able to control your thoughts pretty good unless you don't mind the confusion.  You need to be able to turn your thoughts off and just experience. It's the same thing as meditation really. Ego death causes this too but it's nice to be able to do it at any time not just when ego death forces it on you. It takes a lot of practice to shut off your thoughts for long periods of time. I can only do it for about a minute before my mind starts to wander. It's a good feeling though being at peace and not giving a single fuck about anything.


--------------------


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OfflineHarryL
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: searching]
    #16753193 - 08/29/12 11:28 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Higher doses require more attention to Set and Setting in my opinion, to get the most out of it.
I do like level 4 and 5 experiences...

Perhaps at the higher doses, you are fighting the experience?  Caused by a subconscious fear of What Will Happen and you are trying to control it... Leading to confusion and what you are saying is 'bad trips'

My suggestion is to work on your set and setting, go into he experIence without expectations, let it be what it will be, and let go... Like a raft on a river, go with it and see where you end up.

I also recommend mediation ... Way of settling your mind and being aware


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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OfflineKief Ledger
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: HarryL]
    #16753219 - 08/29/12 11:34 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Higher doses require more attention to Set and Setting in my opinion, to get the most out of it.
I do like level 4 and 5 experiences...

Perhaps at the higher doses, you are fighting the experience?  Caused by a subconscious fear of What Will Happen and you are trying to control it... Leading to confusion and what you are saying is 'bad trips'

My suggestion is to work on your set and setting, go into he experIence without expectations, let it be what it will be, and let go... Like a raft on a river, go with it and see where you end up.

I also recommend mediation ... Way of settling your mind and being aware




Good advise,  and well worded!


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Offlinedgonz64
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: HarryL]
    #16753371 - 08/29/12 12:01 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kief Ledger said:But to awnser your question, IMO once you hit ego death, there are no more thoughts, there is no more you. You are just aware.




I will think about this, thanks. This may be a key for me to understand what happens.

Quote:

sailing said:
Even if all these things are true, does it really matter? does it matter if you are not real?




That's what I say (in the OP "This might be true but useless to think"). Also it's part of what I was asking. I mean, could that confusion yield any learning other than "We are one with the universe" that I already knew?

Quote:

I think of life as a game, whether its real or not, i play the game like its real, but at the same time i try to squeeze as much enjoyment out of everyday as i can.




Amen to that. I have always thought the things are as real as the consequences they lead to.

Quote:

I dont think youll ever stop these thoughts, i think they are very common thoughts at higher level doses, but the key is understanding whats important and what is irrelevant.




Thanks for the insight. As a side note I don't want to stop the thoughts but to know if they can be useful. I'm beginning to think that so abstract thoughts may be useful for some and not for others. These levels might be an incredibly powerful tool for physicists or philosophers and I'm sorry they don't use it.

In the meantime looks like I have stuff to study for more than a year until my next meeting with the universe.

Thank you also for the video. I will watch it as soon as I have time.

Quote:

searching said:
I think if you go.into the higher doses you need to be able to control your thoughts pretty good unless you don't mind the confusion.




That's the problem. I can control my thoughts except when in the "black zone" (or level 4).

Quote:

You need to be able to turn your thoughts off and just experience.




Understood. Next time I will write in an sticky note "Go through it and don't worry about yourself". I just need to remember that the spirits are not telling me stuff like a sect or like if life is a lie.

It's just that the meltdown of the logic looks so real what frightens me so much, so if I become paranoid again I will just read the note.

Quote:

HarryL said:
Higher doses require more attention to Set and Setting in my opinion, to get the most out of it.




And this night, they weren't exactly wonderful (not so bad neither... I know you can't trip while worried about something unless you are looking for it and know how to handle it)

Quote:

Perhaps at the higher doses, you are fighting the experience?




I don't usually fight the experience (except this time when I set a lorazepam bomb right in the middle of the thought quake).

If you mean not being able accept it, then yes. I didn't find useful to realize I'm alive and dead at the same time.

If you mean negating it, then I didn't. Maybe that's what I need to do. I may need to realize my logic it's not logic any more and laugh at it.

Quote:

My suggestion is to work on your set and setting, go into he experIence without expectations, let it be what it will be, and let go... Like a raft on a river, go with it and see where you end up.




Will try (in a year, hehe). As I said, maybe if I remind myself the logic is fucked up, I can dance with gods.

Thank you for all the replies  :heart:


Edited by dgonz64 (08/29/12 12:10 PM)


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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16753426 - 08/29/12 12:12 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dgonz64 said:
If you mean not being able accept it, then yes. I didn't find useful to realize I'm alive and dead at the same time.

If you mean negating it, then I didn't. Maybe that's what I need to do. I may need to realize my logic it's not logic any more and laugh at it.



I think acceptance is an important part of it. Accept the possibility that the logic could be real, but at the same time be skeptical about it. when you are sober later, then you can sort out what is true and what isnt, but while you are tripping, accept it for what it is and understand that the truth cant hurt you. learning the truth wont change anything if its already been true all along.

also, have you had the chance to watch the video i posted yet? i think thats a video that everyone should see.


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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Offlineelgatogordo
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16753705 - 08/29/12 01:17 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dgonz64 said:
  • Is it useful to wonder if this dark zone is a shadow in my mind (something I don't want to accept or face while sober)? So, should I insist in being there? I am mostly in peace with the world, my life has not been particularly hard and I don't have any traumas to remember (except these bad trips, hehe). My belief here is that it will not yield anything good but I wanted to ask.
  • Talking about shadows, may this be just fear to the death? This would surprise me because death doesn't frighten me much... or I think so.
  • How do you deal with these infinities in trips? Do you prefer to avoid it too or can you get something from it? Do you suffer or enjoy?
  • The thoughts that time or space doesn't exist does frighten you as much as me? I mean, do you like level 4 and its (perhaps false) epiphanies?
  • If this is level 4 (I recognize the objects) I don't want to imagine how level 5 is. Do you stand level 5?


I know I could answer some these questions by reading more on the subjects and becoming an expert in psychology but maybe some of you can enlighten me much faster. Also I'm sorry if this is been extensively debated. I tried the search button.




1. Sure its always OK to wonder. Maybe not necessarily useful but there really isn't much harm that can be done. Who knows maybe the more you dwell on it the closer you will get to defining that voidness, or maybe you won't.

2. You may feel as though death does not frighten you. And it very well may not. However when one is truly faced with a life or death situation (hopefully you never will) I believe your stance on it would change.

3. As for the feedback loops that carry on into infinity I tend to just let them happen and ride it out, getting whatever I can from them along the way, sometimes its pure suffering, sometimes its bliss, sometimes its a bittersweet mixture of the two.

4. As sailing said, does it really matter if time and space don't actually exist? Either way, something exists, and even if there is truly nothing and the nature of the universe is absolute voidness, what are you going to do about it? How does dwelling on that sort of question positively impact your growth and progress as an organism?

5. Honestly I don't understand labeling the intensity of a trip by levels. It doesn't really convey much information to anyone else besides the fact that you tripped really hard, there is no real content there. I don't know if I have had a "level 5 trip" by whatever definition folks here at the shroomery follow, but I have tripped very hard and generally I can "stand it", but its really going to depend on you dude.

Just my two cents.

Elgato


--------------------
"To those who doubt - your wounds will never heal
To those who question my creation - I'm not real"


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Offlinedgonz64
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: sailing]
    #16753888 - 08/29/12 02:04 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sailing said:
I think acceptance is an important part of it. Accept the possibility that the logic could be real, but at the same time be skeptical about it.




Despite how I would have liked that, in that moment I can only think that unreal logic is real. I hope that with the advices I took in this thread I may be able to remember the second part (being skeptical too) while tripping.

Quote:

when you are sober later, then you can sort out what is true and what isnt




On lower doses this is what I do. I take mental notes of everything I think during the trip and next days I analyze all.

On higher doses I just can't deny the false is true and my brain goes crazy. I know it doesn't hurt and I know it's just a bad trip (as HarryL points), but it didn't help.

Quote:

also, have you had the chance to watch the video i posted yet? i think thats a video that everyone should see.




Seen.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, it doesn't tell anything I didn't know (I had the ideas loose in my mind precisely until I began tripping and I came to the conclusion that I can't be isolated from my surroundings or the universe).

On the other hand I find incredibly useful the flat light versus spot light analogy. Mushrooms flatting the light of my brain and I am able to connect things with each other.


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Offlinedgonz64
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: elgatogordo]
    #16753973 - 08/29/12 02:22 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

@elgatogordo

Thanks for your replies. Just some clarifications:

I was obscure in the OP. I didn't mean it's useful to know if I exist or not as I said with "[..] I think I don't exist at all. This might be true but useless to think". I think this was not very well worded.

I have a very open mindset while tripping but all the times the feedback loops appeared have been unpleasant. I hope with your advices (and other's) this will change.

To all:

The thoughts I put in the first part of the OP happen only while tripping badly. While sober I never question if I exist or not because I don't care. I like when you say "Either way, something exists".


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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16754122 - 08/29/12 02:55 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

then im confused by what exactly it is you're looking for. i will say this though, higher doses arent for everyone. if your sweetspot is lower then stick to your sweetspot.


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16754123 - 08/29/12 02:55 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Now my bad trips are not monsters nor fears I have. It's a very confusing state in which the concepts mix up (again, looks like level 4). This is some of the things I think:

    "Everything is the same thing". As physicist are looking for the great unification theory, my brain thinks it sees it clearly.
    "Thus the universe is me. God is me". With God as the laws of the physics and the history of the universe. I know we are star dust so the universe is in us, but here the fusion is overwhelming complete.
    "The universe doesn't exist and I am making it up. The life is a lie and I am just imagining it". This is the most frightening thought as I think I don't exist at all. This might be true but useless to think.
    "My memory is all I have but the remembrances have been implanted". Of course memory is us and of course it's been implanted... but by our senses and reality. Here I think nothing I remember has really happened.
    "Everything I know is everything that exists". That one is easy to deny and to explain why it's wrong, but in the dark zone it seems true.
    "I have lost everything". Of course, if I live a lie.
    "I'm destroying the universe by finding this ultimate truth". I'm destroying the universe except my stomach, that still hurts. Also I come to this conclusion with my two hands in the head as in "what I have done". Funny but painful.




Meditate until these newbie thoughts dissipate.  You're just experiencing the boundaries of what you've thought about, beyond that it all looks black to your thinking mind.  If you want to go beyond thought you have to learn how to let it go. :thumbup:

Quote:

But thankfully I put an end to this trip with lorazepam.




Not thankfully, foolishly.  You say you know "how to handle bad trips" but this seems to be through fighting them, definitely not a good idea.  IME everything that comes up during a "bad" trip is something I need to pay a lot of attention too and work out, or expect to suffer through it repeatedly with every further trip. 

It's not about riding out the trip, it's about opening fully to the experience.  Where you are appears to be on the verge of "ego death" (a terribly misleading term) but the step beyond that opens into the infinite.  One way to get there is to go for a significantly larger dose than you're fully comfortable with - but that's not for everybody. :shrug:

:peace:PS

PS also try making tea (see my sig), it not only helps by eliminating the nausea it gets you a cleaner and higher experience...  Uhm, IME, of course.  And as always  Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. This product is meant for educational purposes only. Colors may, in time, fade. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. Don't eat the yellow snow. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your canceled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt.... Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time offer, call now to insure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only in well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flame. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub.  This supersedes all previous notices.


Edited by PrimalSoup (08/29/12 03:09 PM)


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Offlinedgonz64
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: sailing]
    #16754236 - 08/29/12 03:15 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sailing said:
then im confused by what exactly it is you're looking for. i will say this though, higher doses arent for everyone. if your sweetspot is lower then stick to your sweetspot.




I wanted to know if it's worth to be in the infinities and all this stuff before taking the decision to move forever to that sweetspot. What I'm sure is that I will try again following all the advices I took here.

Also wanted to know if the thoughts are similar to other people and if they like it. (Seems that both are true).

Most of my questions have been replied so your confusion might come from something I added in a later comment. If that is the case I'm sorry about that... English is not my first language.


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Offlinedgonz64
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16754395 - 08/29/12 03:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Not thankfully, foolishly.  You say you know "how to handle bad trips" but this seems to be through fighting them, definitely not a good idea.  IME everything that comes up during a "bad" trip is something I need to pay a lot of attention too and work out, or expect to suffer through it repeatedly with every further trip.




Could be foolish but I don't regret because it seems that I was not prepared. One thing is to face some truth you don't want to hear as I have done in lots of trips and another is to have illogical ideas and suffering while on it.

Anyway I see the point: It looks like I was actually fighting the trip. Next time I will not.

Quote:

PS also try making tea (see my sig), it not only helps by eliminating the nausea it gets you a cleaner and higher experience...




Oh, thanks! Will try. I still don't have the perfect intake method.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16754481 - 08/29/12 04:03 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Could be foolish but I don't regret because it seems that I was not prepared. One thing is to face some truth you don't want to hear as I have done in lots of trips and another is to have illogical ideas and suffering while on it.




Not "could be foolish" is foolish.  Take it from somebody who's been there hundreds of times, if you will, over about a thousand trips, and don't be insulted.  Time after time I've seen the trip take a "bad" or "scary" turn and IF I FOLLOW IT I GAIN, if I turn away I lose. 

Don't lose the precious time and lessons you've prepared yourself to receive through your discomfort at accepting things you generally didn't want - but NEED - to know.  All I'm sayin.  You can talk the talk, now do the next thing. :thumbup:

Quote:

Anyway I see the point: It looks like I was actually fighting the trip. Next time I will not.




Try you will.  Succeed you may. :yoda2:

Be warned it's a lot harder than it seems.  This is still talking the talk. :thumbup:

Big journeys. 

:peace:PS


--------------------


if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: LAGM2022! Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Invisiblesailing
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16754764 - 08/29/12 04:59 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dgonz64 said:
Quote:

sailing said:
then im confused by what exactly it is you're looking for. i will say this though, higher doses arent for everyone. if your sweetspot is lower then stick to your sweetspot.




I wanted to know if it's worth to be in the infinities and all this stuff before taking the decision to move forever to that sweetspot. What I'm sure is that I will try again following all the advices I took here.

Also wanted to know if the thoughts are similar to other people and if they like it. (Seems that both are true).

Most of my questions have been replied so your confusion might come from something I added in a later comment. If that is the case I'm sorry about that... English is not my first language.



how many upper level trips have you actually had like that? i feel like the more trips you have at that higher level, the more comfortable you will be with it. I also thought it sounded like you were fighting the trip as Primal Soup pointed out, but you said you weren't so i figured i would take your word for it and focus on the other things in your post.

Im curious to know if taking a significantly larger dose, wich i do not recommend, would help you get over this issue of not letting go. at a higher dosage, you have no choice but to let go as your ego is completely dissolved. the only reason i dont recommend this is because negative vibes are multiplied by alot if you do have any negative vibes.


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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OfflinePOWAtrippin
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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: sailing]
    #16754877 - 08/29/12 05:14 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Perfect injestion method?  Lemon Tek, IMHE.

Something to practice -NOT THINKING-.

There is almost always a point in every trip where it is a really good idea to not be thinking.  For instance, when a really really awful smell comes along.


--------------------
Don't believe everything you think.  TRADE LIST

‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right?
‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd :facepalm:


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Re: Are upper levels desirable? [Re: dgonz64]
    #16754920 - 08/29/12 05:20 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

First off, try not to over think things or get too hung up on any one idea. With the exacerbated feelings of awe and discovery that mushrooms produce, it can make accepting any novel idea as fact all too easy. In my experience though, I think it's better to view these ideas as new perspectives for consideration rather than absolute truths. Remember all those times that you woke up the next morning realizing how utterly bullshit the stuff you were thinking was? Take your own 'epiphanies' with a grain of salt.

Of course, that's easier said than done when in the middle of a bad trip. You need to figure out for yourself why there are negative feelings in the first place. I don't think it's the ideas themselves that are causing things to go south. If your experience is anything like mine, the crazy thoughts are the product of 'run-away' anxiety. Mushrooms are a bit of a roller coaster, and it can be easy for one weird vibe to mess with your footing, and eventually lead to a bad trip. It's that loss of control that leaves you vulnerable to your own imagination.

The major distinction I see between good and bad trips is order vs. disorder. The better your trip is, the more clear and crisp every detail is. A good trip means everything upstairs is running smoothly, the circuits are all connected properly, etc. The better you feel on a trip, the sharper your senses are, and the more lucid your thoughts will be. Bad trips, by contrast, have a very distinct feeling of disorder. Things are extremely unclear, confusing, and chaotic. That wonderful clarity of visuals good trips have is just the opposite, where you don't know what you're looking at. Thoughts are so jumbled they have no meaning, like the ideas themselves are crashing into each other in your head.

Think of your mind like any other machine. Taking higher doses stresses the system farther, allowing one to experience the multitude of effects psychedelics provide. Enhanced senses, creativity, insight, emotion, etc. It feels like we're at a higher level consciousness because we're revving the engine harder, so to speak. But it's a double edged sword. The greater force that strong doses apply increases the risk for weak points to give, leading to malfunctions (which, in turn, leads to further malfunctions as you spiral downwards). The weak points being unresolved issues, fears, and the sort. As a result, thoughts and perceptions become distorted rather than enhanced. If this happens and you don't address the issue than you can easily find the whole thing coming apart at the seams as you escalate into a bad trip. The more you take, the farther you can go, but also the harder you can crash. So if you want to trip harder, you need a machine that can handle the stress. You can't have skeletons in the closet ready to give way to a sufficient dose. You need to iron out the kinks and tighten the screws. A more stable and healthy mind can handle a stronger experience.

I've found the best thing I can do in response to bad thoughts and feelings is address them head on. If you encounter some bad vibes, don't simply dismiss or ignore them because you'd only be pushing them to the back of your mind. If your setting is good then you need to address your set. Successful high level experiences can't simply be had because you ate enough mushrooms. They must be earned. That means taking the time to really do some introspective work. By working on yourself as a human being, you'll condition your mind to more readily accept the trip.

Fortunately, mushrooms are an excellent tool for such maintenance. Tripping is an opportunity to rewrite the code and fix any leaks. If you are truly honest with yourself, and open to change, then you will get what you're looking for. That's not to say you can't take mushrooms recreationally as well. I think they should be both spiritual and recreational, but if you want to maximize the latter you need to address the former.

To do so, I recommend taking a dose towards the upper limit of what you're comfortable with (without going over), and simply having an honest discussion with your self. That's what I did and it really helped. My past few mushroom trips have been tinged with elements of a bad experience I had with them prior, so last time I tried having a 1 on 1 chat with the 'bad vibes' themselves and it was very cleansing. I also recommend talking with yourself into a mirror. You may not have any monsters in the closet but neither did I. We all have more room for improvement than we are aware of and you won't know what you're hiding until you look for it.


--------------------
“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.”
― Terence McKenna


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