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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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A Misunderstanding
    #16723674 - 08/18/12 11:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What do you all think of this bit?

_______________________________________________________________________


The misunderstanding of the basics of spiritual science, natural science and life is so prevalent today. People should not try to teach others from their own beliefs, beliefs are not real by definition that is why they are beliefs. That which is real does not require your belief for its existence, look at your thumb, it is real, you don’t need to believe in it for it to exist. Just that your ideas/imaginations sound good to your mind does not mean it is real or that you should teach them to others.

Go outside and sit in front of a rock, the rock in front of you is real, if I throw it at your head it will hurt when it hits, it has nothing to do with what you think or imagine. The lump on your noggin will be real. Your thoughts are not real, you do not create reality with your thoughts, you distort your experience of reality with your thoughts. Your thoughts cause your version of reality to be distorted.

You do not see the actual rock in front of you, you see an image based on the electrical impulses that go from your eyes to your brain and then those impulses get projected on to your mind. Your beliefs, karma, stories and fears then color or distort that image to fit your version of life that is particular to you. You see a distorted reality on the mirror of your mind and you think it is real, you think it is you. That is the definition of spiritual ignorance the basis of all your suffering; the misidentification of that which is not you as you.

Is your life complicated? The complication is your distortion, life is very simple, the rock is a rock, you are alive, you are not special but you are unique, everything is unique.

Do you think that life isn’t fair? You created your version of life in your mind; all the limitations you see are your imaginations and beliefs. Until you stop trading one belief for another you will never be free, you will never touch reality. What is fair, does fair exist? Fairness is a concept at best but whether something is fair or not is just a belief. Life is not fair or life is fair, neither is real, it is not that and it is not - not that, as the Buddha taught. Life is not happening to you, you are life itself, it is not about who’s fault it is, whether it is fair or not, it is about living purely and fully engaged with the life that you are.

Do you believe that others are selfish and that they are ignoring you? Lets take a look at that. What are you focused on in that belief? How you feel, what you need, how it is for you, why is it like this for you, how others act in respect to you and your needs, etc… So who is self-centered and selfish, you are the only one in every statement, you are the one who is always looking out for you. If you feel ignored it is because you are ignoring others in your constant focus and attention on yourself. What do you talk about? You! What do you think about? You! It is your mirror that you are looking at and creating in this moment, you are looking at your mirror, the image you see is you, your life, everything you see is in relation to you. It is your selfishness that is driving you mad. For most, this is where you see no way out, so you get ready and make plans to get away, to change your location as if your location is the problem. The real problem is where ever you go, you will still be there; you cannot get away from you. It is time to get some help and find someone who will guide you out of ignorance and into life.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #16724787 - 08/19/12 04:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i like to look at life in disbelief :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #16724842 - 08/19/12 04:49 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

in general I like it.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: Icelander]
    #16724889 - 08/19/12 05:06 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

pretty much this
Quote:

Icelander said:
in general I like it.




but at times it seems like an argument 'against beliefs' as if there is something other ('Reality') by which you can understand the world.

for example this sentance

"You do not see the actual rock in front of you, you see an image based on the electrical impulses that go from your eyes to your brain and then those impulses get projected on to your mind."

is just as much a story as any other, it is also just belief.

Quote:

The Chronic said:
i like to look at life in disbelief :thumbup:



this seems implausible imo, the best you can do is recognise most of your beliefs are pretty shoddy but that they're all you've got to work with


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dripping with fantasy

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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #16724907 - 08/19/12 05:13 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Did you write this, c0sm0?


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #16724982 - 08/19/12 05:49 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
Did you write this, c0sm0?




No I copied it off of a post in the Reality Sandwich facebook group. But I really liked it at the time.

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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #16725007 - 08/19/12 05:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I like it. The bottom section is something I point out to myself pretty often. :thumbup:


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: quinn]
    #16725130 - 08/19/12 07:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
i like to look at life in disbelief :thumbup:



this seems implausible imo




that's a kind of belief right there

Quote:

the best you can do is recognise most of your beliefs are pretty shoddy




good first step, but its not the 'best you can do'
it can be the best you can do at a certain point in time, your always doing the best you can do Now
but it's not necessarily the best you can do period

Quote:

they're all you've got to work with




again, that's also a belief

but in a sense your correct...
in a way all we've got to 'work with' is what we believe will work for us

if we want to do lose weight, then we have to work with what we believe will make us lose weight
if we want to learn how to play a musical instrument, we have to work with what we believe is the best way to learn
if we want to go beyond belief, all we've got to 'work with' is awareness as awareness is what exists beyond mental beliefs
and really we can't 'work with' awareness, as we are awareness

so in a sense your right, beliefs are all we have to work with
but to go beyond belief, you don't need to 'work with' anything
as 'working with' something would already be utilizing some kind of belief
which of course would be counter to the goal - which is to observe life, beyond belief

staying beyond belief is more about resting, not working


--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (08/19/12 07:13 AM)

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: Chronic7]
    #16728416 - 08/19/12 06:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

i like to look at life in disbelief :thumbup:



this seems implausible imo




that's a kind of belief right there

Quote:

they're all you've got to work with




again, that's also a belief




i admit they are beliefs and they may be pretty shoddy ones at that:tongue2:

Quote:


good first step, but its not the 'best you can do'
it can be the best you can do at a certain point in time, your always doing the best you can do Now
but it's not necessarily the best you can do period




THAT is a belief. massive belief.

Quote:

but in a sense your correct...
in a way all we've got to 'work with' is what we believe will work for us

if we want to do lose weight, then we have to work with what we believe will make us lose weight
if we want to learn how to play a musical instrument, we have to work with what we believe is the best way to learn
if we want to go beyond belief, all we've got to 'work with' is awareness as awareness is what exists beyond mental beliefs
and really we can't 'work with' awareness, as we are awareness

so in a sense your right, beliefs are all we have to work with
but to go beyond belief, you don't need to 'work with' anything
as 'working with' something would already be utilizing some kind of belief
which of course would be counter to the goal - which is to observe life, beyond belief

staying beyond belief is more about resting, not working




idk about awareness. :shrug2:

imo it can become a useless goal and lead to suffering (i.e. constantly worrying about how 'aware' you are)

imo the best we can hope for is not to take any of our beliefs too seriously because thinking we are without fault or infallible (about anything) inhibits our capacity for change...

the point of inhibition may not even be directly related to the belief i.e:

-i believe i am aware
-aware people only do Y (inference from belief)
-this situation calls for me to do X
-because i am aware cannot do X

you know what i mean...

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Offlinecbub
it
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: quinn] * 1
    #16729829 - 08/20/12 05:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Go outside and sit in front of a rock, the rock in front of you is real, if I throw it at your head it will hurt when it hits, it has nothing to do with what you think or imagine. The lump on your noggin will be real. Your thoughts are not real, you do not create reality with your thoughts, you distort your experience of reality with your thoughts. Your thoughts cause your version of reality to be distorted.





I think he got it wrong. It's scientifically proven that matter is not made of anything solid. It's basically of information and energy fields. It's literally a hologram.
Just because your senses react to it, it doesn't mean it's real. In the same way, you don't consider the earth flat, just because it looks like it is flat from your perspective.
It has nothing to do with what you think and imagine, true; because the world around you is already made and your cognitive self (which is a part of ego) is not the creator of it, it's the one that is taking the ride in it.
The cognitive self, however, is connected to the creator of the world and he may or may not act and modify according to what you believe. The decision is based on other set rules of this world.


--------------------
It's fine.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: cbub]
    #16730964 - 08/20/12 11:10 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:strokebeard:

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: A Misunderstanding [Re: quinn]
    #16731464 - 08/20/12 12:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

i like to look at life in disbelief :thumbup:



this seems implausible imo




that's a kind of belief right there

Quote:

they're all you've got to work with




again, that's also a belief




i admit they are beliefs and they may be pretty shoddy ones at that:tongue2:

Quote:


good first step, but its not the 'best you can do'
it can be the best you can do at a certain point in time, your always doing the best you can do Now
but it's not necessarily the best you can do period




THAT is a belief. massive belief.






not necessarily, its just being open to possibilities really
if i said 'its not the best you can do period.' then it would be a kind of belief
but i said 'not necessarily', to cover myself :lol:

i know it is at least possible, beyond belief, because i can confirm myself that its true
whether you believe me is another thing :lol:
i wouldn't want you to believe me though, that would defeat the purpose of 'being beyond belief'! :wink:

before belief comes, you exist, then belief/thoughts/mind come rushing in, but its all secondary to you, you're there to see it
so logically you already exist beyond belief, before belief arises
so why would it not be possible to stay as that existence that is prior to belief arising?
considering you are that existence

its not about even believing it's possible, its about looking at the FACTS & KNOWING it is possible

the mind says its not possible, but the mind is just thoughts
either believed in, or not

the power lies with you

:peace:


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Edited by Chronic7 (08/20/12 12:32 PM)

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