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2Experimental

Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1700784 - 07/09/03 08:16 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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damn thats horribal man, you would think they woudl outlaw shit like that. When you talked to your parents, what did you say?
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: 2Experimental]
#1701833 - 07/10/03 05:22 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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thats the other thing, i wasnt allowed to talk to them the whole time i was in texas, untill they came down on my last day to say goodbye, cuz i was going to mexico.
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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LOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1701907 - 07/10/03 07:35 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well buddy It is very cruel what they have done to you especially you only did what teenagers do. How old are you?. No one knows why we have to go in life thru experiences like that, but make the best out of it; there is always a lesson to be learned even if it is not clear now. As per you parents forgive them if you can, forgive them because they are ignorant. If you are still dependent on them, hang on finish school and play the ?good boy game? and when you are at age, get the hell out of there. I wish you good luck and peace of mind.
--------------------
Edited by LOBO (07/10/03 07:36 AM)
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2Experimental

Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1702297 - 07/10/03 11:35 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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"thats the other thing, i wasnt allowed to talk to them the whole time i was in texas, untill they came down on my last day to say goodbye, cuz i was going to mexico. "
So what did you say to them then?
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: 2Experimental]
#1703431 - 07/10/03 04:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, i begged them not to send me to mexico. what would you have done? and they said no youre going, you have problems..... i admit i had some, but they would have fixed themselves. especially if i knew this would be the consequence. odly enough, in hindsight, i see how the wilderness places i went to can be and was benificial, even if i hated it. and i an now considering taking a job in one of these places. weird hunh. although i wouldnt want one where the kids went forcefully, like i did.
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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Spiffy
Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1703896 - 07/10/03 08:10 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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hrm....this is very, very disturbing. Do you feel like they "brainwashed" you at all? That article somoen posted the link to sent shivers up my spine. "Inspirational" tapes palying during meals, being tied up and left on your face for days, and the whole part where the reporter was talking about interviewing the kids and how they were all so monotone and the same. When you finally got home, did you tell your parents about what really went on? I'm sure the place didn't tell them how horrible it was. How did they react? Did they believe you? How long were you there? Please tell more of this story....I am very very interested in your ordeal. I can't believe loving parents would do this to their children. Perhaps it does "work" but at what cost? I was a really fucked up kid and I did a lot of bad shit...MUCH worse than the behavior you described....thankfully my parents never sent me to a place like that. But I DID grow out of it and I'm now a college student with a 3.0 GPA and two jobs and a lot of morality. I didn't need to be abused and broken down to get to a better place...I just had to grow up...and most of us do. I can see how a program like that might be beneficial for kids who commit felonies (rape, murder etc.) but for smoking pot and skipping class? Thats just insane. MESSAGE TO ALL PARENTS: If your kids are acting up, it doesn't mean they are deviant people....it means they need MORE love. Allow them to be who they are and love them for it....you do not OWN your children. You are their guide, not their boss!
-------------------- Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you, there is only one of us."
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: Spiffy]
#1704055 - 07/10/03 08:55 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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If my parents did that to me I would have chopped off all their fingers.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1708042 - 07/12/03 07:49 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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there was a lot of bullshit. one day we all got called out side on the sandy cold beach. the staff asked us if we had anything to confess. no one owned up for anything big so they told us to flip this 300 lb. fiberglass boat. and flip it again, and again. then one of the staff got in it and had us push it up and down the beach. all this time one of the staff was in the boat, yelling and bitching about how someone needed to own up- or we all would face the consequences. an hour later, after pushing this fucking boat up and down the shore. they told us that someone stole a wallet with 400 pesos in it. that was more than enough to get to the border, and if anyone didnt own up we, would keep pushing the boat. so noone owned up, and we pushed this fucking boat some more. 1/2 hour later the staffer told us to stop. he said "do you know what day this is? April fools" i was going to kill this mother fucker for playing with our minds like that, however he was a peer staff, and was 4x my weight. so i didnt really do anything. i hope that fucker relapsed. thats just a bit of the torture we went through.
peace zippoz
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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curenado
73rd Man


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1708123 - 07/12/03 09:03 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think those programs are really rotten, and do a lot of damage. But in trying to fight them? You are talking about a fiercely abusive culture that has a kind of weird thing about using kids for thinly veiled freudian lusts billed as "conditioning and reform" or "character building" because they know, like I do, that it breaks and degrades and enrages a person so that they will become as blind and vicious as they are - because that kind of person does what the TV and raymond moses say- they break you, and then they ride your husked out corpse while you sing the company song. Sorry! That one gets me every time. That entire mentality is why kids ARE setiing thier folks on fire in bed. Poor kids! You can hatch it all up in your head how great you and your capatlistic militaristic society are, but if you baby sick - it proof proof you ugly bad. If you hurt the baby it will tell. Even if it has to create fight club to give you what you deserve (ya bastards...) or light your bed on fire as a big light so everyone can finally see. But - this is the wisdom of the boot and bullet, and I believe the passage goes "as you sow, so shall ye reap" Reap it Raymond Moses!
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ZippoZ]
#1711579 - 07/13/03 01:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Holyshit, I went through the same shit!!!! I got busted with some mdma and pot and got sent to a group home first, then I hated all the gangsters and bad people there so I ran away back to my house. After that I was kicked out of the group home and sentenced to 20 days in detention for "sanctions" I had to talk to my friggin parents through glass on a telephone, one of the worst feelings i've ever felt, I was only 16 and they were acting like a was a violent criminal or something, i never caused harm I had just personal amounts of both drugs and they still thought it necessary to ruin my life by putting me in with crack dealers, and car thieves. After detention was done I got sent to Residential Treatment since I got kicked out of the group home which was wayyy worse. The first month I had to sit at a fucking assesment center, and then went to a place called Northwest Passage in Northern Wisconsin where they treated us like fucking shit. Just for a picture of this place, it was like a prison but a house, t.v. didn't even come in there as we were so secluded, nearest town was at least 15 miles so you couldn't really run anywhere. This was a bootcamp wilderness type program. We had to chop wood for 2 hours a day, ask to go up and down the stairs, ask to use the bathroom. Many kids in my eyes were physically assaulted!!! The counselours call it being restrained when they think a kid is out of control which was rarely the case when they would restrain people. Kids were thrown to the floor and had rug burns all over there faces, and older teenagers were brought to friggin tears it hurt them so bad! Then if you accidently swore or even forgot to ask to go up the steps you would first get 50 pushups, then have to sit in the corner and face the wall for 2 hours without talking then go to the wood pile for another 2 hours to chop wood. Also we weren't allowed to see our parents at all and only got 2 10 minute phone calls a week. We also had the shittiest chores and if you missed one little thing you would have to go chop wood. The schedule was pretty much like this, wake up at 6 a.m. run a mile, eat breakfast then do 3 hours of physical training, weightlifting, running etc. Then we'd have lunch, and chores after every meal of course! Then we had school for the other 3 hours or the day before dinner, and then had dumb groups and shit at night. WE also went on a lot of Canoe trips, very hard ones though!! we had to canoe 200 miles down the st.croix river in 7 days, the counselors would drink soda and have snacks in front of us, and all we ever got was ramen noodles. The counselors would make us carry there stuff, and just completely break you down to make you feel like shit. There was a few people there that basically kept me from killing myself cause they were actually there cause they seemed to care about helping kids, but others were just abusing there authority! After being taken out of my house for a total of about 8 months, and being sent to so many different places I finally got to come home, and I was RUINED!!! Since I was so secluded there, I have the worst social phobia and now sit in my room 23 hours a day and do drugs to try and make my life not so shitty and boring. I hate knowing there's kids my age out having fun and i'm just stuck at home now, as I lost all my friends abrubtly when I was sent away and when I got back many of them had already graduated highschool so I didn't even know where to find them as many moved. I have no social life now except for online, I have a few friends left from highschool but not GOOD friends, they don't have similar interests as me and whatnot but they understand where i'm coming from. We used to be best friends but now they only drop by like once a month, cause i'm never willing to leave my room. I went from a middleclass good student who just liked to experiment to a COMPLETE MENTAL RECK! I don't know why the government ruins people's lives like this, I used to be happy and go out everynight and hang out with friends, now I haven't done it in years! The last 2 years since i've been back have been me constantly sitting in my room, trying to stay secluded. These places suck and i'm sorry that you had to go through it as well, and I know how it feels I don't know what else to say, I believe i've been permanently ruined, they didn't stop me from doing drugs or anything or make me a better person they made me worse, they showed how ugly our country is!!!! I missed out on a crucial part of my childhood, highschool! I didn't get to live the life of a normal teenager but rather that as being portrayed as a criminal because I wanted to put some substances in MY BODY THAT I OWN, isn't this a free country? GUESS NOT, but i won't give in and I still use drugs as I said I always would because I love them. But that place did ruin my life, so at least they accomplished something
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1711610 - 07/13/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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There was 9 other kids there with me, and I felt soooo bad for them as many of them were even younger than me as young as 14 and this place was so physically demanding and if you didn't do what they said you'd be damn sorry!! There was no way to win at this place but to act like you were reformed and say that they were always right, even though they did some of the most childish and horrible things ever. They would sit there and tell me that I'm going nowhere in life and that they knew that i'd just be in prison after there, so motivation to reform huh? I remember when I had to first go up north to the Assesment Center my mom had to take me to the East side of my town by the interstate, a guy in a minivan picked me up and we started driving WAYYY north, I ended up at this place, the assesment center where they pissed tested me and watched me piss, sicko's!!!!!! The Actual Residential Treatment Center, called Northwest Passage II was the worst place I was sent, where I stayed for 3 months. Because I was not too bad there, I was able to come home, many kids were sent to other worse places cause they had to be restrained and what not, I never got restrained, cause the first night I got there I saw it happen to a kid and could not believe my eyes, I was scared shitless they HURT HIM, he was screaming "you're breaking my arm" please let up and crying, this was the first day I can only imagine how bad that was for the kid both mentally and physically, sorry that you were restrained cause that is BULLSHIT, they should have no right to touch kids at all!
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1711616 - 07/13/03 02:13 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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here's a link to the shithole I was sent to
http://www.nwpass.com/passage2.htm
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1711622 - 07/13/03 02:16 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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OH yes and they made us listen to friggin jesus preaching stations and i'd always put up a fight about it! I would say quit trying to turn us into cult members, then i'd have to face the wall for 2 hours and cut wood for 2 hours.
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curenado
73rd Man


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1711948 - 07/13/03 04:32 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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<<Since I was so secluded there, I have the worst social phobia and now sit in my room 23 hours a day and do drugs to try and make my life not so shitty and boring.>> Ok - this is just my opinion but - I don't hink it has anything to do with being secluded in the woods; life is what it is made anywhere and I can put you in the woods and you might not want to leave - But the thing is this: Whoever's fault it was then, and whatever happened you are still hurt right now and that hurt is not thta you were isolated on the outside - they hurt you and you isolated yourself on the inside because that's what people do sometimes. You need to know straight up that some of the features of your personality that you have been conditioned to feel guilt and fear over are some of the parts that are really important and valid and identify you as a person of some intelligence and independent thought. It is my personal and professional opinion that you are suffering from residual symptoms of abusive conditioning and I want you to know that I read every single word you wrote and I have spent a lot of time standing against the very things you describe. I'm going to check out for a minute and go get another guy - I'm not so sure this forum is about the camps themselves anymore and I want this guy around for what I think this forum is really going to end up being about. Be back. OK - well - there is a guy that runs around here and says he's a therapist but he feels he's "in a tough predicament" and if you want to pm him privately you can. (?) I just wanted him to come in here and act like a dude but it's all good - BTW- I am not feeling in a predicament and since I do pro bona work anyway sure, you can take my comments as just another person or as a doctor however you like because I'm going to be pretty much the same either way (wholeness/honesty) I do think this is heinous, bears no semblance of any good thing, and I'm seriously thinking about specialising this way because I'm very familiar with abuse and self esteem issues and the idea of "Anti-Raymond Moses" camp is just too soothing to a disgusted soul that has been aginst this from the first day as I have. Just like they physically programmed all that crap into you, it can be let loose to run right back out because it's toxic and your body doesn't want it anyway. It was a bad thing that happened and just kick it to the curb and focus on moving away from and upward from any of it.
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
Edited by curenado (07/13/03 05:27 PM)
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1711959 - 07/13/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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People should start filing lawsuits against these organizations and put them out of fucking business.
Sue them, and sue your parents.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: curenado]
#1712119 - 07/13/03 05:42 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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thanks for the advice I really do appreciate it, but it's much easier said than done to just kick it to the curb. I don't even ever think about that place anymore, but I know that I was a good socialable person before I got sent away and now I can't even talk to my friends without fidgiting and shit. The place gave me a good perspective, not to get caught again!!!! But it didn't reform me at all and just showed that even though I thought what I was doing was right that this worthless country could still ruin my life because I wanted to use a friggin substance! My mom talks about suing the place all the time cause i'm so fucked up now, i'm 19 and not nearly prepared to live on my own like I should be, my mom still has to take me to the doctor even! I was in college last year and had to drop out because I was so scared about being there with people I didn't know My friends and family agree that I have been ruined since I've gotten back and I wish I could just dust my hands off and say it's over but I just can't seem to get back to my old self! I hate these places, however I would consider working at one just to be an actual GOOD influence on someone and not ruin there lives, I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I did, it's the worst thing i've ever had happen to me, I still cry some nights over it! If I wouldn't have gotten sent away my life would be so different right now, I used to use drugs for recreation and would have a good time with my friends, now I just sit in my room by myself and do them to try and escape my horrible reality of life.
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curenado
73rd Man


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: ]
#1712188 - 07/13/03 06:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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<<but it's much easier said than done to just kick it to the curb>>
I know, but the attitude is a start and you've obviously got that
<<I hate these places, however I would consider working at one just to be an actual GOOD influence on someone and not ruin there lives, I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I did, it's the worst thing i've ever had happen to me, I still cry some nights over it!>>
Good I hope you will and maybe we will work together one day. Lots of people that actually belong in health sciences get there the same way....
If you ever want to get out in the country again (the good part) and recondition your self away from that damn damage in any way - we do just that kind of thing. Or rather, we'll give you space, place and peace. In all cases best wishes and I really hope you won't let what someone did intentionally and methodically waste more of what should be some of the best years of your life - Isn't it shitty how a whole world can receive us but 2 or 3 rotten fuckers can run us away from all life? Like they speak for life and everybody?
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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YouEnjoyMyself
PHiSH

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 8,127
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: curenado]
#1712205 - 07/13/03 06:15 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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my parents used to threaten that they would send me to programs like that. never did though.
-------------------- -Wash uffitze drive me to firenze
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: curenado]
#1712249 - 07/13/03 06:32 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do want to get in the country again just cause i'm so paranoid in the city now, if you have some kind of program give me a pm. You're lucky your parents didn't send you to one, they have potential for good but with the wrong people working in them they just ruin you like they did me. I'm trying to get better now but it's an uphill battle, have bad mental health issues now. I wish I could almost go back there just to be secluded, although I'd hate being bossed around like before.
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Anonymous
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Re: WILDERNESS PROGRMAS AND RESIDENTAL TREATMENT HELL [Re: curenado]
#1712253 - 07/13/03 06:34 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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yep basically my life was ruined by a few counselors there and just being away from society so long it was a culture shock to come back and i'm just piss scared.
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