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sandi
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#16921393 - 09/27/12 03:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Edit - totally didn't get what you meant....rewriting response.
One, root your phone. You will have more control over your phone than you ever had before. Use one of the more supported ones. You won't even get updates pushed to your phone anymore. You can shut off much of the shit they use to track you. Pop out your battery....turn off all your GPS....restart your phone to bootloader mode...pretty sure it's not sending out shit then, I could be wrong, if you really want to leave your battery in.
Better yet, get a prepaid, leave your real cell at home. Avoid the drama.
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Edited by sandi (09/27/12 03:48 PM)
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: sandi]
#17172591 - 11/06/12 01:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fuck yeah motherfuckers! I got my shielded cellphone cases in the mail from Hong Kong today!!! Will post up pics later!
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Guy1980

Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17173081 - 11/06/12 02:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cool thread. I never considered some of the points brought up here.
A lot of the concerns are technically feasible, but so unlikely I'd only expect them to be used by the more elite LEA in very specific circumstances. I'd love to know what backdoors the govt agencies force manufacturers to provide (if any, but it makes more sense that they would than they wouldn't).
Using a disposable phone negates all of these issues though - a handset not tied to a name is pretty useless to LE. Unless you fingerprint the device to yourself in some way of course.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Guy1980]
#17174480 - 11/06/12 06:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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A few shots of the signal-blocking cellphone case. Note that it has two slots: one non-blocked, where it simply functions as a nice protective case, and one with RF blocking.
I approve of this solution. Sleek, classy, portable, light, easy to use, nondescript, cheap, legal, and effective. No need to rip the phone apart, or remove the battery. It utterly puts to rest any concerns regarding unauthorized communication with the device. This includes extraordinary situations, such as when the device is in airplane mode (which, despite earlier comments, I still think is laughable), a broadcast is issued for a passive response when the device is powered off and battery removed, and when malware is installed.
If I may get on my soap box for a moment, I am so rippin' pissed about these privacy issues that I'm ready to go to law school, study this stuff, and write the law on this myself. I have so much to say. I firmly believe that information obtained through these devices--and other technologies--must be protected under our 4th amendment rights. I am not so naive as to think that any law could stop the information gathering from occurring, but there absolutely needs to be a well-defined process for court admissibility of data obtained from these technologies. We need some form of "technical search warrant" that must be approved by a judge before information obtained from these devices can be used for many legal purposes.
Either that, or apply for a job with the FBI, right? 
Finally, some semblance of privacy! At least I can now walk around without Big Data and Big Google tracking my every move!
Love, Chicken 
1. Case with phone inside

2. Case profile with phone inside

3. Phone in normal operation, non-blocking slot. Note 4 bars of signal:

4. Phone in blocking slot. Note no signal. Sorry for blurry pic but it was a tough shot... I had to slide the phone up, press the button to turn the screen on, and take it fast, in bad lighting, with no flash, in micro mode, before it picked up signal! It found a network connection very quickly--like two seconds after I removed it from the case, and the strength indicator would quickly flip from no signal to three bars. It really amazed me how fast it jumped back on the network--even with only a tiny bit of the phone exposed.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (11/07/12 08:30 AM)
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buckwater
HerpDerp

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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17183215 - 11/08/12 03:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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If your phone doesn't start back up after 8 hours from being off with the battery still in(and it has a full charge), it might be bugged. But, if not, you probably don't have any malicious software installed.
You'd notice decreased battery life if one of these programs was pushed to your phone.
Just take the battery out. There is no reason to wrap it in anything.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: buckwater]
#17183634 - 11/08/12 07:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
You'd notice decreased battery life if one of these programs was pushed to your phone.
That's assuming that the feds are listening to your audio all the time. But I don't think that would be the case. They probably turn it on for a minute, and if you aren't doing anything illegal, turn it back off for awhile until you meet up with your buddies.
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17183645 - 11/08/12 07:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's pretty much a constitutional requirement.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17191469 - 11/09/12 04:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: And they don't communicate when on if you put them in airplane mode.
Quote:
Yheringaan said: Like someone else mentioned, airplane mode seems to cease all wireless communications as well.
So I figured out a way to prove that communication is possible, despite a phone being in airplane mode.
*** WARNING: Before you do this, realize that you may get a knock at your door! The police are required to follow up on all 911 calls, especially hang-ups *** If you try this test, make sure to tell the 911 operator that you were just testing your phone, and don't rush off the line. ***
Basically the idea is to make an emergency call while the phone is in airplane mode. By law all phones are required to enable emergency calls in all circumstances. That's why you have a special "Emergency Call" button on your phone, even when the screen is locked.
If airplane mode REALLY locked down all communication ability, you wouldn't be able to get through, even with an emergency call; however you CAN get through. An emergency call will take a phone out of airplane mode.
My point? Airplane mode DOES NOT completely shut down communication. It can be overridden in certain circumstances.
1. If you haven't done so already, set a password on your phone 2. Put it into airplane mode 3. Turn the screen off and then on, so that it locks 4. Hit the "Emergency Call" button 5. Dial 911
The phone will exit airplane mode, gain signal, and the call will go through.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17191497 - 11/09/12 04:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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right...but then it isn't in airplane mode anymore...
As we've all said, one could make software to turn on the transmitter...but the phones don't do it automatically to track you.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17191959 - 11/09/12 05:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: right...but then it isn't in airplane mode anymore...
As we've all said, one could make software to turn on the transmitter...but the phones don't do it automatically to track you.
There's no practical difference between the phone communicating while in actually in airplane mode, and it communicating after being popped out of airplane mode on command. Either way, airplane mode is insecure, and can't be trusted.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17192123 - 11/09/12 06:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Again, there's no practical reason for the manufacturers to build such functionality into the phones...some malware could do it, but it would be pretty easy to notice the battery drain.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17192203 - 11/09/12 06:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Again, there's no practical reason for the manufacturers to build such functionality into the phones....
The functionality is already there!!! I just demonstrated that when the phone popped out of airplane mode for an emergency call!
Quote:
Enlil said: Again, there's no practical reason for the manufacturers to build such functionality into the phones...
FCC E911 telecom requirements require it: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-911-services
You burnin' tonight?
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17192226 - 11/09/12 06:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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You don't read very well...everyone knows about 911 functionality...that's not the topic of the thread...the thread is about the government being able to track and/or listen in on you remotely...that's the functionality that I'm talking about.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17192277 - 11/09/12 06:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You don't read very well...everyone knows about 911 functionality...that's not the topic of the thread...the thread is about the government being able to track and/or listen in on you remotely...that's the functionality that I'm talking about.
Perhaps we are arguing different points. Mine is that it is technically possible to communicate with a wireless device in airplane mode. Are you arguing that the government _cannot_ "track and/or" listen in on you remotely."
Would you mind re-stating your position?
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17192342 - 11/09/12 07:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The thread is originally about trying to shield a phone because it supposedly can communicate while off and/or with the battery out. My point is that it can't be done without a battery, and probably not while off. I also think that it could be done with the phone on if malware was installed, but it would be obvious because of the reduced battery life
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17192622 - 11/09/12 08:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The thread is originally about trying to shield a phone because it supposedly can communicate while off and/or with the battery out. My point is that it can't be done without a battery, and probably not while off.
I respectfully disagree; removing the battery and/or turning the phone off is not enough, as discussed in the following points:
1. BATTERY OUT. The following post, quoted from page 2, shows that phones have an internal battery; they _always_ have enough juice to pulse a simple "I am here" message back to a tower.
Quote:
ComputerTekGuy said:
2. PHONE OFF These very basic "I am here" system-level messages do not require the operating system to be running. Think of beep codes from a motherboard.
3. BATTERY OUT AND PHONE OFF. The little internal battery would power the system-level "I am here"
4. BATTERY OUT, INTERNAL BATTERY RIPPED OUT, PHONE OFF. Worst-case scenario, and very few users will be in this category, but I think that that it is still possible to locate a device in this state, with the following technique: Emit a high-powered broadcast from a tower. The oscillator within the phone will emit a little radiation when hit with this burst, enough to locate the phone. Similar to the radiation measured by a "radar detector detector."
Quote:
Enlil said: I also think that it could be done with the phone on if malware was installed, but it would be obvious because of the reduced battery life
Only if your malware writer was a little slow. The smart ones are conscious of battery usage.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (11/09/12 08:03 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17192692 - 11/09/12 08:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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1. Even if you're right about sending an id to a cell tower, that isn't enough to eavesdrop or track the phone to a specific location. At most, it could place the phone to within a few blocks.
2. I know you believe that there is a hidden battery that can power the transmitter. I don't. From my electronics experience, which doesn't make me an expert, i am guessing that any such battery is there for memory retention purposes much like the battery in your desktop computer.
3. The idea of some high power signal triggering some radiation from the phone which can be tracked its pure science fiction
4. Transmitters require power to transmit and gps receivers require power to locate...it doesn't matter how quick or slow the programmer is
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17192971 - 11/09/12 09:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: 1. Even if you're right about sending an id to a cell tower, that isn't enough to eavesdrop or track the phone to a specific location. At most, it could place the phone to within a few blocks.
Nah. You can see a match light from a mile away. If you're a warmonger you'll recognize the phrase, "Three on a match."
Quote:
Enlil said: 2. I know you believe that there is a hidden battery that can power the transmitter. I don't.
This would have to be taken on a device-by-device basis, but I might try and hunt down the circuit diagrams for the iPhone and a couple other popular devices. But not tonight... beer is calling.
On another note, an iPhone battery is not so easy to remove... you have to unscrew it. See this vid:
Quote:
Enlil said: 3. From my electronics experience, which doesn't make me an expert, i am guessing that any such battery is there for memory retention purposes much like the battery in your desktop computer.
Perhaps. I'll have to noodle on the proof of this, but it is theoretically possible.
Quote:
Enlil said: 3. The idea of some high power signal triggering some radiation from the phone which can be tracked its pure science fiction
Disagree. I even wonder if a radar gun could be tuned to generate enough power to light up a cellphone if it was close enough; say, from a car in the street, 100 feet away.
Quote:
Enlil said: 4. Transmitters require power to transmit and gps receivers require power to locate...it doesn't matter how quick or slow the programmer is
Wrong on this one. Lots of tricks you can do here, such as minimizing the frequency of "here I am" messages, and only sending an absolute minimum of information. A tiny little blip here and there is enough, and will burn only a tiny bit of battery power.
There is still reasonable doubt here, enough that it's worth a $9.99 investment into a signal blocking case, just to be on the safe side. The whole point of this thread is to remove a device from the grid with 100% certainty, and the RF blocking case accomplishes that, beyond a reasonable doubt--for the cost of a couple of beers.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (11/09/12 09:20 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#17194111 - 11/10/12 04:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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We're not going to come to a consensus here. At least not until some credible experts have examined the issue and made their best guess about it.
Having said that, I do find it to be very odd that you cling to these theories of what MIGHT be theoretically be possible with a phone by claiming that you would like to be 100% certain that it is off the grid...yet you endorse a $10 product claiming to give you this 100% certainty without ever questioning the validity of that claim. Where are the laboratory tests showing that this product completely shields all rf?
In the end, however, whatever the practicality or possibility of tracking/listening are...it would require a warrant in the United States. In addition, it would not be legal for them to listen and record 24/7. That wouldn't be legal with a planted bug, either. This is, of course, something about which I am an expert.
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smegzilla69
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#17194482 - 11/10/12 08:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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i am positive that removing the battery is the only thing that works there is noo small battery or capacitor in ur phone ur bugged out... lol
i slept over my friends house n my mom bugged out n called the cops n shit cuz she thought i ran away n they couldnt find me cuz i took my battery out.
this only wouldnt work for the iphone n u just let it die dead dead. n keep trying to turn it on to kill remaining batt
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EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes! SO DOPE "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. " Albert.
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