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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874035 - 09/19/12 10:34 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That doesn't make much sense either. If it's being used as a bug, the only way to tell if there is something worth listening to is by listening to it...that means having it transmit 24/7.
They probably turn it on for a minute, and if there is nothing worth listening to, turn it off for awhile. This way it wouldn't need to transmit 24/7.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874163 - 09/19/12 10:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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For smartphones a huge portion of battery loss is the screen. The phone drains when you are using it because the screen turns on. Very little of my smartphone's energy goes towards data.
I just pulled up my battery usage stats. 86% of my battery drain comes from the screen. 2% from wifi, 2% from cell standby.
I would guess that it could probably last a whole work day transmitting voice only on a full charge.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16874191 - 09/19/12 11:01 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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The screen isn't on when I'm on a phone call, and "talk time" numbers are always significantly lower than "standby" numbers.
Of course, both of us are pretty much guessing. Someone with intimate knowledge of which hardware would need to be used for a mic-only scenario could give a knowledgable answer. I would also guess that a lot of it is hardware specific.
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874366 - 09/19/12 11:33 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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No not at all. I could care less, we're no longer in a free society
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874427 - 09/19/12 11:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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It shouldnt be hard for a couple semi-smart people to figure out. The mAH rating of your cell battery is known, as is the output voltage. The wattage of your transmitter can be googled. After that its simple unit conversion and division.
I just did it for my phone. I have a 1900 mAh battery at 3.7 volts. I googled cell transmitters and find they run in various power states, with the highest at around 3 watts. So 3.7*1.9/3 = 2.34 hours. That is assuming the transmitter is at full strength.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16874449 - 09/19/12 11:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Of course, you also have to factor in whatever additional hardware is necessary to do the work. The transmitter is only one part of it. There has to be some A/D function active. Whether that can be turned on individually or must be turned on as a part of a larger module, I don't know. In addition, there is some idle process that uses power....although that would be minimal.
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DieCommie

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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874477 - 09/19/12 11:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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ADC's take a fraction of a watt. We need to be comfortable with dropping higher order terms if we are going to be making back of the envelope calculations.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16874520 - 09/19/12 12:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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In any case, we're still talking far less than the usual smartphone daily charge cycle. It seems it would be far easier and more effective to simply plant a bug.
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Adden

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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874713 - 09/19/12 12:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Or just not talk about drugs on cell phones and go meet up with a longtime friend every few months or during the holidays.
Gift wrap, anyone?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Adden]
#16874767 - 09/19/12 12:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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We're not talking about a tap. That's a whole other thing. We're talking about the phone being used as a bug...meaning that it would record conversations taking place in the room where the phone is located...
But seriously...Thanks a bunch for the protip.
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Adden

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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16874888 - 09/19/12 01:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ah right, oopsies.
This thread kinda went from lulzfest to seriousness quick that I lost sight of the OP.
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Humility
Working on it



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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: Enlil]
#16883944 - 09/20/12 11:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: We're not talking about a tap. That's a whole other thing. We're talking about the phone being used as a bug...meaning that it would record conversations taking place in the room where the phone is located...
But seriously...Thanks a bunch for the protip.
Discreet conversations take place away from phones.
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ComputerTekGuy
Teh Awesome



Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 1,150
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ComputerTekGuy] 1
#16908937 - 09/25/12 02:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ComputerTekGuy said:
Most LG feature phones have these inside them. I've notice if disconnected or broken then the speaker in the phone doesnt work. But maybe that's just one model i've worked on.
So I grabbed a junk one these are work today, and a LG rumor touch, took them apart and it's not a battery....
Vibrate motor
Knew this sounded kind of funny
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ComputerTekGuy]
#16916885 - 09/26/12 07:57 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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EDIT: Actually don't like--brutally ripping hardware out of one's phone is a great way to brick it.
Since popping the battery can result in data loss (like text messages from numbers not in your address book), turning it off and on is unreliable (given the battery as shown in the vid above) and a pain in the neck, and phones are perfectly capable of transmitting in "airplane mode" should the Man have the need, I prefer the solution that I posted earlier: RF blocking cases:

http://www.idstronghold.com/
or something like this, which is a bit classier, and doesn't scream "I'M A CLOSET CRIMINAL AND I"M TAKING MYSELF OFF THE GRID!!!" when you whip that thing out in front of your boss at work (hello random drug test policy!):

http://www.shoebuy.com/difrwear-rfid-blocking-phone-case/515805/1087415?cm_mmc=dealtime-_-none-_-none-_-none
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (09/27/12 09:27 AM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#16919550 - 09/27/12 09:20 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Man, if I believed what you do I wouldnt even have the damn cell phone. If you really think that its being watched to the point where you have a little pocket faraday cage, why even bother with it?
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16919612 - 09/27/12 09:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Man, if I believed what you do I wouldnt even have the damn cell phone. If you really think that its being watched to the point where you have a little pocket faraday cage, why even bother with it?
Hey bra, privacy is a huge issue nowadays--and you would be a fool to ignore it.
Your activity (and the activity of everyone in this thread and country) in all its flavors is being routinely tracked and logged. Petabytes of data. A few examples:
- CREDIT/DEBIT CARDS: Your purchasing habits; what you buy, and where you buy it - EMAIL, IM, TEXT MESSAGES, ETC.: There's a reason why gmail, hotmail, yahoo, and aol mail is still free! - SOCIAL MEDIA: Your networks of friends - BROWSING HABITS: The Web sites that you visit - GPS LOCATION: Your physical location and patterns of movement (Most easily achieved by tracking the location of the mobile device in your pocket, but facial recognition and other techniques are available). - These are all in addition to the publicly available stuff, like criminal records, credit report, phone book address, etc.
With all these data in hand it is a trivial task to create a picture of who you are and what you do. Even from visiting this site (shroomery.org), I get advertisements about my "drug or alcohol problem," and rehab services. 
My data are most definitely being analyzed for marketing, but probably not very interesting to law enforcement--I'm not even close to being a career criminal. My guess is that there are scripts set up to wade through these massive amounts of data, and flag individuals that exhibit "big fish" patterns for closer inspection.
My friend told me a story of how a guy found out that his girlfriend was pregnant. He started receiving advertisements for baby stuff! Unbeknownst to him, he'd knocked up his GF, who was surfing the 'net on his rig when he wasn't around. She was shopping for baby stuff on Amazon, hitting adoption/abortion services pages, reading articles on being pregnant, etc. They identified him as a person about to have a baby, and the targeted marketing reflected this. Funny! Instead of the usual ads for alcohol, fantasy football, and porn, he started getting banner ads for diapers, emails about sales on cribs, etc.. He was like ?, put 2 and 2 together, and was like, "Hey, Baby, is there something that you're not telling me...?" 
Smartphones are incredible inventions--second perhaps only to a car. It's not something to be paranoid about; however, if one is cruising out to buy a sack, it's just not a good idea to be in the matrix. Even worse is if your dealer is stopping by... with his phone on. All of his stops--including your address--are stored in a database table somewhere.
It's painfully simple if you think about it. What would the pattern of a dealer be? hmmm.... how about a guy that stops at the same set of addresses every week or two, on Friday or Saturday night, and has text messages like, "Hey Mr. Green! What's up?" or "Hey man, you holdin?" etc..
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (09/27/12 02:07 PM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#16920801 - 09/27/12 02:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's painfully simple if you think about it. What would the pattern of a dealer be? hmmm.... how about a guy that stops at the same set of addresses every week or two, on Friday or Saturday night, and has text messages like, "Hey Mr. Green! What's up?" or "Hey man, you holdin?" etc..
I do that all the time and have for years. If I actually believed what you claim there is no way I would own a cell phone. No way at all.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2,573
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16920942 - 09/27/12 02:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
It's painfully simple if you think about it. What would the pattern of a dealer be? hmmm.... how about a guy that stops at the same set of addresses every week or two, on Friday or Saturday night, and has text messages like, "Hey Mr. Green! What's up?" or "Hey man, you holdin?" etc..
I do that all the time and have for years. If I actually believed what you claim there is no way I would own a cell phone. No way at all.
Well, you can lead an ass to water, but you can't make him drink.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (09/27/12 02:37 PM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#16920980 - 09/27/12 02:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Classy man, real classy...
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Wrapping a Smartphone in Tin Foil to Remove it From the Grid [Re: DieCommie]
#16921341 - 09/27/12 03:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Watch this video. It's called "Big Data." Here it's used for target marketing, and relies only on public information. The same technique can easily be used to target criminal activity, which is significantly more accurate and invasive, because they have access to additional, confidential information that marketing organizations do [should?] not: credit reports, DMV photos for facial recognition, tax returns, etc. This is big business, man!
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (09/27/12 03:59 PM)
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