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Anonymous

fetus killin'
    #1669199 - 06/28/03 12:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Woman sentenced to at least 7 years for attack that killed fetus

ERIE, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A woman who was convicted of murder under a seldom-used Pennsylvania state law for attacking her romantic rival and killing the teenager's fetus was sentenced to seven to 14 years in prison.

An Erie County jury convicted Corinne Wilcott, 21, in March of third-degree murder and assault in the June 8, 2002, attack on Sheena Carson, which resulted in the death of Carson's fetus.

Wilcott was sentenced Thursday. She could have faced a maximum 20 to 40 years in prison.

Prosecutors painted Wilcott as a woman fueled by jealousy, saying she attacked Carson because Carson was pregnant by Wilcott's husband, Kareem.

Wilcott was charged under a law that allows the death of a fetus to be prosecuted as a homicide if the death is caused by an attack. About two dozen states have similar laws.

Wilcott's attorney, Tim Lucas, said he planned to challenge Pennsylvania's fetal homicide law in an appeal.

Lucas has argued that the law conflicts with the state's abortion law about what constitutes a human being: Under the abortion law, a woman may not terminate her pregnancy after the first 24 weeks; the fetal homicide law applies to the death of a fetus at any stage of development.

In ruling the law constitutional before Wilcott's trial, Judge John Trucilla said that although a pregnant woman can choose to have an abortion, she has no choice in an attack that kills her unborn child.

__________________________________________________________

the law conflicts with the state's abortion law about what constitutes a human being: Under the abortion law, a woman may not terminate her pregnancy after the first 24 weeks; the fetal homicide law applies to the death of a fetus at any stage of development.

i thought this was very true. there is an enormous inconsistancy here.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669278 - 06/28/03 01:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

An Erie County jury convicted Corinne Wilcott, 21, in March of third-degree murder and assault in the June 8, 2002, attack on Sheena Carson, which resulted in the death of Carson's fetus.

. . .

a pregnant woman can choose to have an abortion, she has no choice in an attack that kills her unborn child.




I don't get it. An evil act was punished, I think none will deny this. What's the problem?
Please explain.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1669321 - 06/28/03 01:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There's an inconsistency, I grant you. But, if the fetus is not a human being, it is "property" of the carrying mother (I know, I know, a stretched analogy) - and if you destroy property with the value of another person's child, then, combined with a charge of serious assault, 14 years is not unreasonable.

Why do you bring this up? Are you anti-choice?


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Anonymous

Re: fetus killin' [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1669335 - 06/28/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

a mother cannot kill her young infant, nor can anyone else, because an infant is considered to be a human life seperate and in addition to the mother.

but with the consent of the pregnant woman, a doctor is permitted to terminate a young fetus, because it is not considered to be a seperate human life, but still just a part of the mother. without consent, if someone were to kill that same mass of cells, they can be charged with murder.

this means one of two things:

1. Life begins at conception, but up until a certain point, a woman is legally permitted to have her unborn baby (an individual, alive, human being) killed.

or...

2. Life does not begin until a certain point in the pregnancy, but even before that point, killing the mass of cells (just a peice of mom, like the other tissues in her body) without the consent of the mother is not assault, but murder.

neither of these positions makes much sense. it's either a life or it's not.


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Anonymous

Re: fetus killin' [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1669355 - 06/28/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i am pro-choice and i believe that if someone attacks a pregnant woman in the first trimester and causes her to lose the baby, they should not be charged with murder, but assualt. criminal assualt charges coupled with a heavy civil suit would be more appropriate than a murder charge.

the current position of the courts is that a fetus is a human being, the killing of which is murder... unless sanctioned by the mother, and then it's ok.

that or it's not a human being, but it you kill it, you'll get charged with murder anyway.

either women are being permitted to kill their babies or people are getting charged for murder without killing people. it's an inconsistant position.


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669379 - 06/28/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

To me if the woman has not made the choice to have an abortion, she is carrying a potential baby. To her it is a baby, and attacking her and killing it, is taking away her baby to her. Anyone that attacks a pregnant woman should go to prison for a while. It is about the worst thing you can do short of killing someone. IMNSHO, it is murder. I think a 14 year sentence is not inappropriate at all. You could make a case for 1st degree murder in this case. The woman attacked thought of this baby as her child. The other woman knew this, and premiditated an attack to kill it. That might be a stretch though.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669387 - 06/28/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

mushmaster writes:

neither of these positions makes much sense. it's either a life or it's not.

From a legal perspective, the question of homicide revolves around "personhood", not "life" per se. Is a fertilized egg that has not yet even split into two cells a human? The law says no. Is a newborn a human? In most countries, the law says yes. Note that there are still tribes in existence today whose customs (laws) do not consider a newborn a person until it is seven days old or so.

The discrepancy (which may never be resolved definitively) cannot easily be decided by custom alone. Science must get involved, but science alone can't answer it either. At which point does a mass of cells become a separate human and therefore meet the definition to which homicide applies -- when the fetal heart starts beating? When the nervous system is complete? When the fetus is capable of surviving (if removed from the womb either through the normal birth process or surgically) outside the mother's body with nothing more than air, normal ambient temperature, and milk?

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: fetus killin' [Re: shakta]
    #1669396 - 06/28/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

so whether it is a life or isn't a life is something that the woman can decide?

i think my sperm are all potential babies which i am carrying. should someone come and castrate me, charging them with murder would be absurd. when does life begin?


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669422 - 06/28/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

should someone come and castrate me, charging them with murder would be absurd. when does life begin?



Should someone castrate me, somebody would be charged with murder, but you can be damn sure it wouldn't be the mother fucker that did the castrating.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669425 - 06/28/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Article sounds like a Jerry Springer episode. :wink:

Im glad you are pro-choice. All women should be enpowered and given a right to choose what should happen to their bodies. 


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669474 - 06/28/03 02:29 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Abortion is a-ok by me, but since the mother intended to give birth to the baby it should be considered a murder IMO




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: Learyfan]
    #1669608 - 06/28/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I say the bitches gets raped then the victim should take a bat and give her a few hits in the stomach and kill her baby, fuckin cunt.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineZahid
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1669673 - 06/28/03 04:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

They should have put her away for 14.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,801
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: fetus killin' [Re: Zahid]
    #1670024 - 06/28/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
They should have put her away for 14.



Or ran her over with a bulldozer like that other dumb cunt.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineZahid
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1670050 - 06/28/03 08:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You need to take it down a notch.

Peace, man.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,801
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: fetus killin' [Re: Zahid]
    #1670056 - 06/28/03 08:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
You need to take it down a notch.

Peace, man.



No, I don't.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: ]
    #1670058 - 06/28/03 08:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

don't you get it yet?

if a fetus is wanted, it's human
if not, it's just some fetal tissue


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OfflineZahid
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1670068 - 06/28/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

infidelGOD said:
don't you get it yet?

if a fetus is wanted, it's human
if not, it's just some fetal tissue





Exactly. There's a reason why women mourn if they have miscarriage during a planned pregnancy.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: fetus killin' [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1670075 - 06/28/03 09:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

infidelGOD said:
don't you get it yet?

if a fetus is wanted, it's human
if not, it's just some fetal tissue





Thats what I was thinking.


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Anonymous

Re: fetus killin' [Re: shakta]
    #1671048 - 06/29/03 09:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

whether i want to think of it as a human life or not, my sperm cells are not human beings.

whether i want to think of it as a human being or not, an infant is a human being.

human-ness isn't some label we can just stick on a mass of tissue or not stick on a mass of tissue depending on whether it is 'wanted' or not.


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