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Invisible5-HT2A
Registered: 01/30/10
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Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom?
    #16671750 - 08/09/12 03:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2012/aug/08/now_theyre_trying_ban_kratom_fea

The prohibitionist impulse is strong. When confronted with a newly encountered psychoactive substance, there are always special pleaders to sound the alarm and politicians willing to reflexively resort to the power of the ban. Whether it is something with serious potential dangers, like the "bath salts" drugs, or something much more innocuous, like khat, the mild stimulant from the Horn of Africa, doesn't seem to matter; the prohibitionist impulse is strong.

Kratom is a substance that falls on the more innocuous side of the psychoactive spectrum. It is the leaves of the kratom tree, mitragyna speciosa, which is native to Thailand and Indonesia, where the leaves have been chewed or brewed into a tea and used for therapeutic and social purposes for years. According to the online repository of psychoactive knowledge, the Vaults of Erowid, kratom acts as both a mild stimulant and a mild sedative, creates feelings of empathy and euphoria, is useful for labor, and is relatively short-acting.

Of course, any psychoactive substance has its good and its bad sides, but kratom's downside doesn't seem very severe. Erowid lists its negatives as including a bitter taste, dizziness and nausea at higher doses, mild depression coming down, feeling hot and sweaty, and hangovers similar to alcohol. There is no mention of potential for addiction, and while fatal overdoses are theoretically possible, especially with its methanol and alkaloid extracts, in the real world, ODing on kratom doesn't appear to be an issue. No fatal overdoses are known to have actually occurred.

On the other hand, some of kratom's alkaloids bind to opioid receptors in the brain, making it an opioid agonist, and it is now being sold in the West and used to treat pain, depression, anxiety, and opiate withdrawal. Sold in smoke shops, herbal supplement emporia, and on the Internet, it is now apparently being lumped in with synthetic cannabinoids and the "bath salts" drugs by treatment professionals, law enforcement, and others who make a habit of searching for scary new drugs.

Kratom is not listed as a banned substance in the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs or its successor treaty, and has been banned in only a handful of countries, most ironically in Thailand itself. It was banned there in 1943, when then Thai government was taxing the opium trade and opium users were switching to kratom to aid in withdrawals and as a substitute.

Arrests for kratom possession have jumped in recent years, from more than 1,200 in 2005 to more than 7,000 in 2009, even though the Thai Office of the Narcotics Control Board recommended to the Justice Department in 2010 that it be decriminalized because of the lack of any perceivable social harms.

In the US, the DEA added kratom to its list of drugs of concern in 2010, although that doesn't mean that a federal ban is necessarily imminent. Salvia divinorum, for example, has been a drug of concern for more than a decade now, with no action taken. But while the feds haven't acted, there were efforts to ban kratom in several states in the US this year, although only Indiana actually succeeding in outlawing it. In Louisiana, age restrictions were placed on its purchase.

The experience of Iowa, where legislation to ban kratom is still pending, is illustrative of how bans are created. The Iowa effort happened after state Rep. Clel Baudler (R) heard about kratom on a radio program. Within two hours, he was moving to ban it.

"Kratom is a hallucinogen, addictive, and can be life threatening," he said at the time, in complete contradiction of all that is actually known about kratom.

It's not just states that are considering bans on kratom. Pinellas County, Florida, was about to enact one this week, but the prohibitionist bandwagon hit a bump in the road in the form of perennial drug war gadfly Randy Heine, owner of Rockin' Cards and Gifts in Pinellas Park, who told the Chronicle he had been selling kratom in his store since 1981.

Seeing what was coming down the pike, Heine alerted the Kratom Association, a group of users, producers, and vendors dedicated to keeping kratom legal, who flooded county commissioners with emails. He also addressed the commission itself.

"I have been selling kratom for over 30 years out of my store on Park Blvd. I challenge anyone to find any problem originating from my store selling kratom," he wrote in a letter made available to the Chronicle. "Do not lump in synthetic chemicals with an organic plant material. This is like comparing apples to oranges. I would like to see kratom be sold only to persons over the age of 18, similar to the proposal being made in our sister state of Louisiana."

In the conservative county, Heine also appealed to the ghost of Ronald Reagan in his letter to commissioners. What riles up the Reagan in him, Heine wrote, is "growing the bureaucracy by creating another board to regulate what I and others do in privacy of our own homes."

"I got letters back from two of the commissioners," said Heine. "They read my Ronald Reagan letter out loud, and one of the GOP commissioners thanked me for sharing my thoughts. The commission has now deferred this item so we can take a closer look at the issues involved."

Many of his kratom customers are using it as an opiate substitute, he said.

"We have a drug rehab place here, and my feeling is that a lot of their clients are purchasing kratom instead of methadone. It's competition; I'm taking away money," he said. "Some of my customers say methadone is worse than heroin and keeps you addicted. Kratom weans them off heroin. A lot of them say they just do less and less kratom until the craving stops. I have a couple of senior women who say they're tired of taking prescription pills, that they make them nutty, and kratom works for them."

Chronicle readers may recall that Pinellas County is where a drug reform-minded upstart Democratic candidate for sheriff is taking on either the scandal-plagued Republican incumbent sheriff or his challenger and predecessor, former Sheriff Everett Rice (the GOP primary is next week), whose supporters on the council were pushing the kratom ban. That Democrat, Scott Swope, is so good on drug policy that his candidacy persuaded Heine to drop his own bid for the sheriff's office.

"This looks like another unconstitutional intrusion into the lives of Pinellas citizens who aren't harming anyone," Swope said. "I've researched kratom and although there doesn't seem to be as much research available as cannabis, it appears to me to be a plant product that should not be banned. I think the purchase or possession of any of these things (cannabis, kratom, bath salts) by minors should not be allowed. Adults, however, should be free to do what they want as long as they aren't harming anyone else."

While Heine is currently bedeviled by the effort to ban kratom, as well as an associated effort to force smoke shops to put large signs on their doors saying they sell drug paraphernalia, the Swope candidacy has him hoping for better times ahead.

"Swope can win," he exulted. "We finally have a candidate who is talking about marijuana. Even the Republican candidates are now saying they wouldn't bust people for marijuana. When I was still a candidate, I went to many forums to talk about pot, and the media started asking these guys about it. Scott won't arrest people for personal use."

Whether it's relatively unknown substances like kratom or now familiar substances like marijuana, the battle lines are drawn in what is ultimately a culture war. On one hand, the forces of fear and authoritarianism; on the other, the forces of free inquiry and personal liberty. It's been a long war, and it isn't going to end anytime soon, but perhaps now there are hints that the correlation of forces is changing.

Stopping unnecessary prohibitions before they get started is part of the struggle; undoing entrenched prohibitions with powerful interests behind them is another part of the struggle, but even though the substances are different, it's the same struggle.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #16671804 - 08/09/12 03:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"Kratom is a hallucinogen, addictive, and can be life threatening."

LOL!

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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #16671949 - 08/09/12 03:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:  How haven't these fuckers succumbed to natural selection by now?


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16672361 - 08/09/12 05:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I wasn't considering ever trying this, but now that they want to outlaw it I must have! That'll teach em to ban shit for no reason :tongue2:


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Invisiblemycomyst
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #16672398 - 08/09/12 05:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Already illegal in Indiana! The state rep that wrote the law added it to the bill outlawing 'bath salts' and 'spice' because he said kratom was the same thing. He admitted that he did NO research on what kratom is, just based his adding kratom to the bill based on what he had heard, not on any facts....what an ass. Well, thats what you get in Indiana, representives who write law based on hearsay, do no research, just sad!

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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: mycomyst]
    #16672552 - 08/09/12 06:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I've tried it. its similar to the feel of a vikoden pill.. just mellow, tingly feeling.. if anything its a mild pain killer, not a psychedelic.  and its horrible tasting.. unless in yogurt, its impossible to take enough to get decently high.. unless pharma outlaws it and makes it a pill, which im sure they will.


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Offline245willow19

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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: boneynerd]
    #16672761 - 08/09/12 06:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:awewtf:

What's next to be banned...coffeee


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 245willow19]
    #16673182 - 08/09/12 07:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

it would just be plain straight up fucked up if kratom was banned. so many people benefit especially sick and dying. I hate when people think its ok to order people how to live in pain. its not right.  :facepalm3:


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OfflineLSDaytripper
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 245willow19]
    #16673188 - 08/09/12 07:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

When are they gonna learn that no matter how many "drugs" they ban, there are always more!!! And if there aren't, someone will make something new.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: LSDaytripper]
    #16673280 - 08/09/12 08:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

When are they going to learn ???
These people are @#%$@%$ goromites.

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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #16673895 - 08/09/12 09:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Im against random banning of any substance I suppose.....but to be fair, hospitals have witnessed withdrawl symptoms from kratom with symptoms almost parallel to that of a heroin detox :shrug:


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16674102 - 08/09/12 10:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Real CA Milk said:
Im against random banning of any substance I suppose.....but to be fair, hospitals have witnessed withdrawl symptoms from kratom with symptoms almost parallel to that of a heroin detox :shrug:




Source?


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InvisibleSociety
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: mycomyst]
    #16674594 - 08/10/12 12:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Heavy kratom has been know to result in minor withdrawals when discontinued.  This shouldn't surprise anyone; kratom alkaloids are opioids.  Or at least one of them is.

Regardless, substances shouldn't be banned based on perceived harm.  Substances shouldn't be banned at all.

I would be surprised if there was ever a federal ban on kratom.  But the states ban drugs on a whim.


Quote:

mycomyst said:
Already illegal in Indiana! The state rep that wrote the law added it to the bill outlawing 'bath salts' and 'spice' because he said kratom was the same thing. He admitted that he did NO research on what kratom is, just based his adding kratom to the bill based on what he had heard, not on any facts....what an ass. Well, thats what you get in Indiana, representives who write law based on hearsay, do no research, just sad!




Is it?  I heard that kratom alkaloids were added to a bill.  Did it pass yet?


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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16674921 - 08/10/12 03:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
Quote:

Real CA Milk said:
Im against random banning of any substance I suppose.....but to be fair, hospitals have witnessed withdrawl symptoms from kratom with symptoms almost parallel to that of a heroin detox :shrug:




Source?



Yes please.
I've been using M.Speciosa for over three years and can drop it like coffee or soda pop for most.
I don't get all twisted and sick if I am not using it.  Please link me a source other than some dumb ass kid saying how bad it sucks to run out. 
My opinion of ALL substances is you buy the ticket, you take the ride.
Funny someone mentioned banning coffee, M.Speciosa is in the same family as coffee plant - Rubicae (I believe) source THE Ohio State University.
I am personally a member of the Kratom association, any individual interested should check it out,  great info there.  I have turned many opiate based analgesic users on to Kratom with fabulous results. 
"Oh my god, look he is eating raw veggies, he must be on that Kratom stuff!"
:rofl:

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InvisibleSociety
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #16675586 - 08/10/12 09:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

He speaks the truth. I have read countless anecdotes where constant kratom use can lead to withdrawal symptoms similar to traditional opioid withdrawal (such as H or morphine).  However, the intensity of the symptoms has often been described as similar to those of quitting a caffeine habit.  Hence you are able to quit daily kratom relatively easily, perhaps with little to not noticeable withdrawal symptoms.

Why are y'all doubting this?  Kratom is notoriously used to treat the withdrawal symptoms from more intense opioids...


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OfflineNizzyJones
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Society]
    #16675806 - 08/10/12 10:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, erowid confirms dependency is an issue for sustained heavy use: http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml


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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16676140 - 08/10/12 11:56 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Lol I was just coming back to correct myself.
Anyone who drinks energy drinks or takes sleep aids daily will suffer more intense WD than Kratom use.  Dependent heavily upon amount of daily use.
These threads simply throw fuel to the fire.  How many baby boomer liquor addicts you know?  Take thier whiskey n see what transpires.  Take away THC from a heavy smoker, watch.  Take sex from a sex addict and witness the suffering begin.  I am not here to judge, only bring logic to a cloudy debate.
All love
BC

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OfflineSubconscious
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Society]
    #16676209 - 08/10/12 12:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Society said:
He speaks the truth. I have read countless anecdotes where constant kratom use can lead to withdrawal symptoms similar to traditional opioid withdrawal (such as H or morphine).  However, the intensity of the symptoms has often been described as similar to those of quitting a caffeine habit.  Hence you are able to quit daily kratom relatively easily, perhaps with little to not noticeable withdrawal symptoms.

Why are y'all doubting this?  Kratom is notoriously used to treat the withdrawal symptoms from more intense opioids...




Because saying kratom withdrawal is "almost parallel" to heroin withdrawal is like saying getting a cut on your hand is "almost parallel" to getting cut in half with a katana. Sure they are both "similar" instances, but it still makes no sense to try to compare the two.

The term "heroin withdrawal" carries a huge negative stigma that is in no way accurate or fair to compare kratom withdrawal to, even if there may be similar chemical processes that occur.

:shrug:

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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16676219 - 08/10/12 12:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

NizzyJones said:
Yeah, erowid confirms dependency is an issue for sustained heavy use: http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml



Nearly ANY substance used regularly will create a discomfort upon reduction of said substance found in brain...
Not arguing simply stating fact.

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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Subconscious]
    #16676225 - 08/10/12 12:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:
Quote:

Society said:
He speaks the truth. I have read countless anecdotes where constant kratom use can lead to withdrawal symptoms similar to traditional opioid withdrawal (such as H or morphine).  However, the intensity of the symptoms has often been described as similar to those of quitting a caffeine habit.  Hence you are able to quit daily kratom relatively easily, perhaps with little to not noticeable withdrawal symptoms.

Why are y'all doubting this?  Kratom is notoriously used to treat the withdrawal symptoms from more intense opioids...




Because saying kratom withdrawal is "almost parallel" to heroin withdrawal is like saying getting a cut on your hand is "almost parallel" to getting cut in half with a katana. Sure they are both "similar" instances, but it still makes no sense to try to compare the two.

The term "heroin withdrawal" carries a huge negative stigma that is in no way accurate or fair to compare kratom withdrawal to, even if there may be similar chemical processes that occur.

:shrug:



Nicely put

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OfflineNizzyJones
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #16676407 - 08/10/12 12:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:
Quote:

NizzyJones said:
Yeah, erowid confirms dependency is an issue for sustained heavy use: http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml



Nearly ANY substance used regularly will create a discomfort upon reduction of said substance found in brain...
Not arguing simply stating fact.




And opioid withdrawal is gonna suck regardless of the source of the opioids, not sure why everyone was so surprised to hear that :shrug:

/Note that the poster above didn't imply that the severity of the withdrawal was similar to heroin, just the set of symptoms, there's no reason to be bagging on the kid.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16676456 - 08/10/12 12:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You kidiots need to calm down :commonsense: There have been articles here on the shroomery, stating the same thing I have said in regards to severe kratom withdrawl.  I'm not gonna go fishing for them as I don't give a shit. Why you scrubs are getting sooooo worked up over something that HAS been proven not only by science, but by the people who use it is beyond me. Why the fuck do you think it's illegal in its country of origin.....for FuN??? :datass:

Just because you children are threatened by you precious drug getting scheduled is no reason to get ass hurt by a simple comment I made. And no.....kratom withdrawl is not on par with that of caffiene. If you can honestly compare opiate withdrawl to that of a 2 day caffiene headace I suggest you get off the Internet, and start living in the real world. Why the fuck do you think it's even on the governments radar?? I'll tell you why because people have been rushing to hospitals after abusing the shit out of it with the same mindset that you hold....:facepalm:



Have a Nice time riding the :failboat: back to the Wikipedia articles, and google searches that supply you with your....FACTS :bunny:

:morningtoke:


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Edited by Almond Flour (08/10/12 12:55 PM)

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OfflineKing Klick
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16676548 - 08/10/12 01:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The fuck? Alright i'm gonna buy some kratom now. :onfire:


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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: King Klick]
    #16677359 - 08/10/12 03:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Why the fuck do you think it's illegal in its country of origin.....for FuN???




Politics. Read the article. It was a move against the opium using populace of Thailand.

Quote:

And no.....kratom withdrawl is not on par with that of caffiene. If you can honestly compare opiate withdrawl to that of a 2 day caffiene headace I suggest you get off the Internet, and start living in the real world.




You've obviously never been through severe caffeine withdrawals. It can get really bad, sometimes to the point of suicide. You've also obviously never been through more severe withdrawals. Pharmacologically, mitragynine and related alkaloids are more diverse in their binding affinity to opioid receptors relative to heroin or morphinan alkaloids.

Quote:

proven not only by science, but by the people who use it is beyond me.




You can't prove anything, not even gravity, according to the scientific method. You can only support things with empirical evidence. Furthermore, I cannot find any solid literature which suggests what you're saying.

Now go fuck yourself.

On a more technical note, one should realize that any opioid agonist does hold the potential of dependence; the mu-opioid receptor just works that way. The key is the degree of dependence that is spurred. Heroin and morphine (classic mu-opioid agonists) are very focused and very good ligands for the mu-opioid receptor. In addition, they are taken in pure form (except opium from opium alkaloids; opium, by the way is far more concentrated than simple kratom leaf, which has ~0.25% mitragynine). Dependence will occur with heavy, sustained use, but not to the degree of heroin or other opioids.

I know for certain that people have used kratom to treat opioid dependency with moderate success.

Edited by aperson444 (08/10/12 03:55 PM)

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InvisibleBoomerMan420
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: aperson444]
    #18014615 - 03/26/13 03:43 PM (11 years, 23 days ago)

seems like kratom is banned at the moment from exporting out of indonesia vendors are not selling kilos anymore shit is fucked. Not getting replies from vendors on how much a kilo would go for. better bulk up I think kratom is almost gone, and I have no where to bulk up FML!!!!!!!

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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: BoomerMan420]
    #18014677 - 03/26/13 03:54 PM (11 years, 23 days ago)

That govt allegedly profited from market controls over opium.

Kratom is a substitute and possible cure for withdrawal.

:shrug:

If effects are noticeable, without using strong concentrates, noone should consider it surprising that prolonged, heavy use comes with side effects.

I have used the plant and don't personally consider this an offensive statement.

But, if we were not financially accountable to one another by law, the downfall of the individual would create no measurable expense for society at large. Prohibition is a side effect of the social safety nets, which we assume to be civilization.

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Invisiblecodemiester2006
ole' dude

Registered: 08/25/11
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: durian_2008]
    #18295000 - 05/20/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Just some info for those interested. There was no "ban" on kratom export from indonesia. There was some bribing of officials in indo customs to limit the export since then it has been dealt with and things are back to normal now. As for the "ban" I had no problem getting kilo from indo supplier during the "ban".

Kratom withdrawls are nothing like heroin there is some runny nose and some agitation after a few years of almost daily use (never went through heroin wd's but I can read) there is indeed a slander campaign more than likely from the pharm. industry. There have been multiple "reports" on various "news" outlets that claim kratom is smoked etc etc... and recently been shown in the movie Burt Wonderstone as a drug that makes you incoherent etc... the defamation is clear.

kratom eases my anxieties and makes me more productive as well as more creative.  Figured I would throw that out there as I am actively supporting the fight to keep it legal at least in my state.

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: codemiester2006]
    #18299111 - 05/21/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that you're talking about reasonable moderation. 

If someone were to take abusive doses, on a regular basis, I would tend to think that propaganda was true.

Call me elitist, but I worry that the kind of people from the old, Walmart Bingo gag would ruin it for the more-responsible ones.

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Invisiblecodemiester2006
ole' dude

Registered: 08/25/11
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: durian_2008]
    #18310363 - 05/23/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

indeed well I do not really think there is a way to abuse kratom... it is self limiting, to me at least, if I take to much I just get a head ache and get grumpy no real benefits. Those who wait a long time between doses can get stronger effects but even those are limited. I am a daily user but it has many benefits to me personally but I guess people are different.

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InvisibleSham87
mashAllah
Male

Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #18310425 - 05/23/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

:sad:


--------------------
:mushroom2::sun::crazy2::leaf:




...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest places if you look at it right...



:feelsgoatman:

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: Sham87]
    #18315104 - 05/24/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I was supposed to bbq on chilly day with a bad headache, but a small dose had me feeling nostalgic and quite capable. To think that this grows on a tree is story-book-like to me.

Tee-totaler, here.

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OfflineTheBoomking
I really am Bret McKenzie
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Registered: 01/21/11
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: durian_2008]
    #18332609 - 05/28/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Hey sorry to ask a dumb question but is kratom actually illegal or theyre just trying to make it? I dont have time at the moment to do some research - on my way out the door - but I am very interested in trying to get some for my friends who have been struggling with opiate addictions for years and keep going to methadone clinics and suboxone doctors... kratom sounds like a good alternative

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InvisibleAdden
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: Now They're Trying to Ban... Kratom? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #18332887 - 05/28/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)


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