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Offlinepsychonaut435
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander]
    #16661097 - 08/07/12 02:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

everything is an opinion. the only thing we've been talking about are opinions.
And as for ego death being impossible, i guess so. to experience it is to have some sort of ego so to have experienced it means there was some ego left. but thats just semantics. ego dissolution if it makes you feel better.


--------------------
ADITYA HRIDAYAM PUNYAM SARV SHATRU BENA
    All evil vanishes from life for him who keeps the sun in his heart
    -Ramayana
TAT TWAM ASI
    That thou art

:mushroom2: :yinyang2:

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Offlinepsychonaut435
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: psychonaut435]
    #16661106 - 08/07/12 03:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i mean, what's the difference between an opinion and a belief? it's a very fine line, if at all.


--------------------
ADITYA HRIDAYAM PUNYAM SARV SHATRU BENA
    All evil vanishes from life for him who keeps the sun in his heart
    -Ramayana
TAT TWAM ASI
    That thou art

:mushroom2: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: psychonaut435]
    #16661172 - 08/07/12 03:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psychonaut435 said:
everything is an opinion. the only thing we've been talking about are opinions.
And as for ego death being impossible, i guess so. to experience it is to have some sort of ego so to have experienced it means there was some ego left. but thats just semantics. ego dissolution if it makes you feel better.





Some opinions are worth more than others however.  Opinions backed by concrete evidence that can be agreed upon by everyone using honest observation and or physical testing has much more chance of approaching what we  like to call truth or reality.

This evidence backed opinion is what this forum is all about or supposed to be. The forum just below this is for pure opinion and speculation without the necessity of evidence.  There is good reason for both being here imo and it's in the best interest of all to know when to use them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #16663998 - 08/08/12 12:32 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Some opinions are worth more than others however.  Opinions backed by concrete evidence that can be agreed upon by everyone using honest observation and or physical testing has much more chance of approaching what we  like to call truth or reality.

This evidence backed opinion is what this forum is all about or supposed to be. The forum just below this is for pure opinion and speculation without the necessity of evidence.  There is good reason for both being here imo and it's in the best interest of all to know when to use them.





Not true. Physical evidence (empirical observation) cannot be expected to answer questions of the metaphysical nature. The validity of a metaphysical position can only be determined through the application of logic/reasoning.

It isn't scientific or logical for someone to assume some phenomenon does not exist because one cannot prove it through experimentation or due to a lack in physical evidence. Instead it is bias and closed minded and therefore unscientific. 

If someone thinks rebirth is a "retarded idea" than they need to attack the logic of the idea because there is no evidence at all against rebirth. You need to logically justify and explain why experience will terminate with brain function. The problem with most "skeptics" on this board is you confuse philosophy for science and your own beliefs as facts.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #16664065 - 08/08/12 12:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It isn't scientific or logical for someone to assume some phenomenon does not exist because one cannot prove it through experimentation or due to a lack in physical evidence.




Instead we should all glom onto an idea with zero justification!

:braindamage:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #16664702 - 08/08/12 06:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Physical evidence (empirical observation) cannot be expected to answer questions of the metaphysical nature.

this takes those questions off the board completely.  Like an ass hole everyone has an opinion on metaphysics and all have a shot at being wrong.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero] * 1
    #16665031 - 08/08/12 08:45 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
If someone thinks rebirth is a "retarded idea" than they need to attack the logic of the idea because there is no evidence at all against rebirth.




And again, we have someone who doesn't understand that the burden of proof lies with the one making the positive claim. :sorry:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #16665072 - 08/08/12 08:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

If someone thinks rebirth is a "retarded idea" than they need to attack the logic of the idea

There's no logic to the idea. Proponents just up and state that it's true, but give no logic or rationale for it.

because there is no evidence at all against rebirth

There is no evidence against the Tooth Fairy's existence, therefore we should assume she exists?

That is not a rational or useful way to arrange your life. A better way is not to believe everything exists until you find an affirmative reason to believe that it does. Otherwise, you might go to war with Iraq because there is no evidence that they don't posses WMD.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #16665087 - 08/08/12 08:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Quote:

Some opinions are worth more than others however.  Opinions backed by concrete evidence that can be agreed upon by everyone using honest observation and or physical testing has much more chance of approaching what we  like to call truth or reality.

This evidence backed opinion is what this forum is all about or supposed to be. The forum just below this is for pure opinion and speculation without the necessity of evidence.  There is good reason for both being here imo and it's in the best interest of all to know when to use them.





Not true. Physical evidence (empirical observation) cannot be expected to answer questions of the metaphysical nature. The validity of a metaphysical position can only be determined through the application of logic/reasoning.

It isn't scientific or logical for someone to assume some phenomenon does not exist because one cannot prove it through experimentation or due to a lack in physical evidence. Instead it is bias and closed minded and therefore unscientific. 

If someone thinks rebirth is a "retarded idea" than they need to attack the logic of the idea because there is no evidence at all against rebirth. You need to logically justify and explain why experience will terminate with brain function. The problem with most "skeptics" on this board is you confuse philosophy for science and your own beliefs as facts.




Awesome.  :winner:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Diploid]
    #16665172 - 08/08/12 09:27 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If someone thinks rebirth is a "retarded idea" than they need to attack the logic of the idea

There's no logic to the idea. Proponents just up and state that it's true, but give no logic or rationale for it.



I gave logic and rationale for it, but obviously nobody is interested or does understand :shrug:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #16665177 - 08/08/12 09:29 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah that's it.  No one else can understand. That's what we'll say. That should work. :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #16665185 - 08/08/12 09:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You gave some gibberish about "pointer in spacetime", which is meaningless, not logic or rationale.

The Tooth Fairy exists because she is a pointer in spacetime. See how that (doesn't) work?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Diploid]
    #16665211 - 08/08/12 09:38 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's spelled Tootf.  :yeahthatsright:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Diploid]
    #16665547 - 08/08/12 10:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
You gave some gibberish about "pointer in spacetime", which is meaningless, not logic or rationale.

The Tooth Fairy exists because she is a pointer in spacetime. See how that (doesn't) work?



Show me the tooth fairy and I agree. The tooth fairy has no concrete space-time pointer, like every individual does, sorry. Try again.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #16665633 - 08/08/12 11:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Show me the tooth fairy and I agree

Show me someone who can speak fluent ancient Kukamongan without having studied it, and I'll believe they lived in ancient Kukamonga 3,000 years ago. Oh wait, all you can show me is people who claim prior lives, but who possess no confirmatory knowledge of the times they claim they lived in.

The tooth fairy has no concrete space-time pointer

The phrase "space-time pointer" is meaningless cool-sounding physics words. Watch, I can do it too: The Tooth Fairy happens to be a quantum hyperspace gravitational widgit tensor with fully normalized superconducting permitivity.

Mine sounds even better than yours, but it's just as meaningless.

sorry. Try again

Ditto.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Diploid]
    #16665652 - 08/08/12 11:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Space time pointer =  Death Anxiety ray shield.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Diploid]
    #16665734 - 08/08/12 12:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No, the space-time-pointer (even called vector) just defines exactly one's coordinate (position) in space and time...
It is about that what is (or what they talk about what is) reincarnated. The essence we talk about is the 'I', the self, the person, yes maybe for some even the soul.
There just can be seen a continuing similarity of some peoples' experiences in accordance to their set and setting they are living in. I would call this the closest rational explanation of reincarnation, one could get.
It might seem lame and obvious, but it might be true in a mystical or spiritual sense as well as in a scientific sense.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #16665759 - 08/08/12 12:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Please give us an example of your space-time vector.


--------------------

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16665798 - 08/08/12 01:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It comes from the logic that we 'own' unique space and time properties, because we exist in space and time, what is the only relevance for the scientific method. This serves well as a definition for the 'I' and 'You', for example.
As far as I see, the recognition of these properties forms our contextual conscious awareness of this 'I, the self. That's what's talked about when one talks about "what is '(re-)incarnated'" .

But for the space-time vector alone, it's sufficient for example that my car stood in front of the house that I live in, this afternoon. The car is where the vector points towards, 'front of the house...' is the space, and time is 'this afternoon'.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #16665927 - 08/08/12 01:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I asked for the actual vector not a description.


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