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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1667814 - 06/27/03 06:17 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
I love how zaz did exactly what he was criticizing Michael Moore for - distracting everyone's attention. Rather than proving a single statement false, Michael Moore was critiqued for his writing style, with a few "I don't believe him"s added in.



I simply pointed out that he had an agenda. I was not trying to distract anyone from the facts I was simply pointing out the spin put on the facts. I also see no references at all (perhaps they exist in the book) so it is hard for the lazy to argue against.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1668121 - 06/27/03 09:04 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

the date as set by law is the 12th


Which law is more important - that the ballots be counted accurately, or an arbitrary 12 Dec milestone be met? Rather than arguing, I'll quote the US Supreme Court justices themselves about that:

Stevens (Republican) - In the interest of finality, the majority effectively orders the disenfranchisement of an unknown number of voters whose ballots reveal their intent -- and are therefore legal votes under state law -- but were for some reason rejected by ballot-counting machines. It does so on the basis of the deadlines set forth in Title 3 of the United States Code. Ante, at 11. But, as I have already noted, those provisions merely provide rules of decision for Congress to follow when selecting among conflicting slates of electors. They do not prohibit a State from counting what the majority concedes to be legal votes until a bona fide winner is determined.

Souter (Rebuplican) - Unlike the majority, I see no warrant for this Court to assume that Florida could not possibly comply with this requirement before the date set for the meeting of electors, December 18.

Breyer, Ginsberg (Democrats) - JUSTICE BREYER explains the December 12 "deadline" for bringing Florida's electoral votes into 3 U. S. C. ?5's safe harbor lacks the significance the Court assigns it. Were that date to pass, Florida would still be entitled to deliver electoral votes Congress must count unless both Houses find that the votes "had not been regularly given." 3 U. S. C. ?15. The statute identifies other significant dates. See, e.g., ?7 (specifying December 18 as the date electors "shall meet and give their votes"); ?12 specifying "the fourth Wednesday in December" -- this year, December 27 -- as the date on which Congress, if it has not received a State's electoral votes, shall request the state secretary of state to send a certified return immediately). But none of these dates has ultimate significance in light of Congress' detailed provisions for determining, on "the sixth day of January,"the validity of electoral votes. ?15.

Quote:

Get over it. Bush won fair and square.


One of the Republican Justices, Stevens, disagrees so much that he said this in his dissent:

"Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law."

Supreme Court Justices disagree all the time. I can't imaging someone making that strong a statment against his own profession unless something was truly rotten.


Quote:

And you've side-stepped the point that even after the fact, the recounts Gore wanted were done. Bush STILL won by those recounts so even if the recount had gone forward as requested by the Gore team, Bush would still be President.


Every website I've visited disagrees with you on this:

http://www.chicagomediawatch.org/01_4_gore.shtml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,450264,00.html
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/sstewert/News/election2000.html

I found dozens and dozens of other sites that confirm the same thing. GORE WOULD HAVE WON.


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Edited by Cornholio (06/28/03 06:17 AM)

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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1668844 - 06/28/03 06:04 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Lets looks at  it this way

Bush is president Gore isn't no amount of whinning is going to change that ( FACT)

Michael Moore is an annoying opinionted tosser who is merely  concerned with winning awards and scratching his ego ( Its not a fact but I think everyone knows its true)

George W. Bush is a wanker ( FACT)

Al Gore is a wanker (FACT)

There were dodgy dealings going on during the build-up to the election (FACT), which never happened during elections before 2000 right?

George Bush is likely to win another term

Cornholio - Your argument was based on a book of opinions, your using the opinions of a REPUBLICAN (what difference does that make not all republicans support eachother nor do all democrats)  supreme court members to support your argument and seem to think running around looking for more sources to copy and paste is going to win this argument.

And at the end of the day you had a choice between two wankers does it matter who won, its like the choice between dog shit and horse shit they both stink.....

Bush  makes a far better President than Gore would in my opinion anyway... (FACT :smile: )
BTW, the guardian link doesn't work.... 


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1668897 - 06/28/03 06:53 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with all your points.  :thumbup:

But even if you ignore the things Michael Moore talks about (or accept that those types of scandals happen in every election), it still boils down to this:

Was it more important to ensure that the votes were counted as accurately as possible so that the correct President got put into office, or was it more important to meet a legal milestone that had often been ignored in the past and wasn't critical for anyting (other than making the impatient American public happy)?  I don't even see how it's a question.  Then when you add in the other factors, well... my opinion is obvious.  It was a coup!  :tongue:

I think I fixed the Guardian link.  Thanks.  :smirk:     


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1669037 - 06/28/03 08:31 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"* If the statewide recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court had not been interrupted by the U.S. Supreme Court, Bush would have won by 493 votes. The reason: Nine counties were including overvotes, but 58 were not. (The Times' analysis of this scenario recorded each ballot according to the standard each county said it was using or planned to use at the time.)

* If the recounts Gore initially requested had been completed in four heavily Democratic counties (Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach and Volusia), Bush still would have won by 225 votes. Those recounts focused only on undervotes, not overvotes--and the uncounted undervotes were not enough to swing the election to Gore."

Bush still won.

Get over it.

Bush won, he'll win again.

All your moaning won't change a thing.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1669075 - 06/28/03 09:04 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Here's a rebuttal to that Times article:

http://www.lovearth.net/floridarecount.htm

Regardless, they should've allowed the recount.

While I agree that complaining won't change the current president, it could help ensure our next one is the elected one.    :smirk:


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1669345 - 06/28/03 11:42 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

So, LDS, your argument boils down to "He's president, so let's ignore the irregularities?" You'd have made a good nazi.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1669510 - 06/28/03 12:56 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

somebodyelse said:
So, LDS, your argument boils down to "He's president, so let's ignore the irregularities?" You'd have made a good nazi.



It's a shame you'll never make a good reader if that's all you got from all this.

Too bad really.... reading is fundamental.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1669516 - 06/28/03 01:04 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
Here's a rebuttal to that Times article:

http://www.lovearth.net/floridarecount.htm



Saying they should have allowed the recount is a rebuttal? Sorry, I'm not sure why (other than you are blinded by your hatred of Bush) that you don't see the importance of following election law.

Quote:

Regardless, they should've allowed the recount.



I have no doubt that had the same happened and a Democrat squeaked in, you'd not say a word and would be quite happy with the results.

Quote:

While I agree that complaining won't change the current president, it could help ensure our next one is the elected one.    :smirk:



The current one was elected.


Get over it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1669582 - 06/28/03 01:45 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I have no doubt that had the same happened and a Democrat squeaked in, you'd not say a word and would be quite happy with the results.


Here I agree with you. I'd stay silent and happy and let the unwise try and somehow convince everyone else that not counting every legal vote was the best possible option by impartial justices.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1669596 - 06/28/03 01:57 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

That's what I thought.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineGixxer_boy
Rice Burner

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 149
Loc: Mass
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1670370 - 06/28/03 09:56 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"It's a shame you'll never make a good reader if that's all you got from all this.

Too bad really.... reading is fundamental."

Take your own advice dude, your responses to the quotes you post are really out of context and don't really make any sense.


Saying that there was nothing fishy and obviously wrong with the votin in Florida is blind ignorance. And no, I don't think Bush would make a better president, he's a useless jackass, I hope he dies a terrible death and is raped in hell by the hundreds of people he executed.


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"Why do women have breasts?"
......
....
...
..
.
"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1670403 - 06/28/03 10:12 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Bush = Stupid + White
Moore = Stupid + White



That sums it up pretty nicely right there.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1670579 - 06/29/03 12:01 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

-please, I'd really like to see an intelligable argument that supports the claim that moore is "stupid".
-bush is stupid, that is obvious, moore may fabricate...but stupid? shut the fuck up.
-and that website that supposedly debunks all of moore's lies is bullshit as well.
-picking through metaphor to prove something that does not even discredit moore's argument is a waste of time.
-so lockheed martin does not make missiles in littleton, but they do make missiles in their factories correct?
-if you guys take everything at blatant face-value, then I pray for your limited intellect.

heres an idea: maybe littleton is supposed to represent violence in america? its a pretty obvious metaphor, dont you think?> heres another very obvious metaphor, the L-M plant in littleton REPRESENTS L-M's activities as a whole!

why should moore be resposible for people that are too stupid to realize that documentaries are an art form? an art form where the subject is reality!



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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1670646 - 06/29/03 12:35 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
I hate to resort to this but this summarizes the whole election disaster:






Yep, Dems rig the FUCK out of elections. Maybe if we didn't have soo many fucking crooked ass liberal beuracrats in Florida you ppl would see how close the election was'nt.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1670813 - 06/29/03 02:10 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Wait, you're seriously suggesting the problem was liberals? I ask this not in indignation but because the information I have access to described it in exactly opposite terms.....where do you get your information from? I'm interested to compare its account.

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1670817 - 06/29/03 02:14 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

no somebodyelse, it is perfectly logical for the democrats to manipulate voting procedures so that they do not win the election.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1670841 - 06/29/03 02:32 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Funny how after all this time, all the hearings and all the recounts, the "lefties" still can't get over Bush being elected.





If you were watching, you might have noticed that the furore about the elections more or less fell away in lockstep post september of 2001. While Moore made a splash, the topic never really resurfaced. Thus, the recounts and hearings were not concluded so much as dropped.

Tell me that I'm wrong here if you like - show me evidence from non-lockstep sources.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1670980 - 06/29/03 05:43 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

post september of 2001. While Moore made a splash, the topic never really resurfaced. Thus, the recounts and hearings were not concluded so much as dropped.

Tell me that I'm wrong here if you like - show me evidence from non-lockstep sources.



Dated Nov, 2001.

Here is but one. There are many more. The post election recount WAS completed by a pool of news services.

You only need to look. Since you don't wish to see or believe, I doubt you'll find them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1671071 - 06/29/03 07:48 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

luvdem: your article states:

"Bush's lawyers won the battle in the trenches. If Gore's team had persuaded Palm Beach County election officials to consider all the county's thousands of dimpled ballots in its recount, he would have picked up 870 votes more than Bush would have, enough to overcome Bush's 537-vote lead and win the election"

so......what is your point? that bush stole the presidency?

hail to the theif!


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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