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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1663022 - 06/26/03 01:46 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Great post Zero7a1


See the movie phenomena, its similar to the expamles and ideas that cross this forum alot!


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1662977 - 06/26/03 01:46 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

whats extra ordinary?! what do you want that is out of the realm of the attainable. if it is why do you ask? its just two different mindsets with a different approach to each. we are playing god here. we have lives and we change. i dont understand this post at all. what do you want? lol. should i send an email? should i put it on your action items list or something? just let go... just let GO!!!!!!!!!!

it seems to me i see people kicking and screaming. what more can you ask yourself? state your side, explain why you believe what you do, then compare that to the other side. then ask what you are looking for, cause i cant see it from where im standing. (im not claiming a side, i just want to know what this post is really about).

maybe i should ask for evidence of a basis for this thread. cause i cant see it. (insert esoterica here)


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What?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1664028 - 06/26/03 08:51 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

it seems to me i see people kicking and screaming. what more can you ask yourself? state your side, explain why you believe what you do, then compare that to the other side. then ask what you are looking for

Side A believes in the scientific method and that electron theory is basically correct. This "opinion" is transmitted electronically to others on the shroomery.

Side B believes that science is screwed up and that telepathy exists. This "opinion" is also transmitted ELECTRONICALLY via the internet.

Any questions?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinec_mathimatics
kaok
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 59
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Swami]
    #1664264 - 06/26/03 11:16 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Ready?

Put all that which you think you know and all that which you know aside for just one moment in order to possibly see something new without judging it. (Don't worry, you can pick right up with all your original ideas after.)

Relax.

Take 1/4 of mushrooms.  Peyote is 1derful. :smile:

Lay still on your bed.

Close your eyes.

Watch the pictures that appear, do not judge, just listen.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: c_mathimatics]
    #1664357 - 06/26/03 11:51 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

You see... it's cryptic bullshit like this that I can't stand.

1. First of all, you assume (incorrectly) that I've never done what you've described above (I've taken more than a quarter ounce of dried p.c.... all I could do was lay there).

2. You're implying that entheogens encode some type of information (that either enlightens or "unlocks"), though the molecules themselves DO NOT code for anything (indicating that it's not the drug, but the brain).

3. Your use of the word "judge" as if it were a negative thing.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Swami]
    #1664563 - 06/26/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

No not really any more questions. I have more ideas though. i see what your getting at. TO me i think this argument would be closer to dreamers vs realists. instead of "believers" vs "skeptics". although i think they are more closely related. or do you not think so?

because to me it seems that you and (im not trying to generalize or anything) Sclorch have a real cultivated scrutiny to your investigations. which is smart. but for me i dont have enough time or the dedication (right now) to go and try to figure out an explanation and support evidence for how i think telepathy might exist. or how i think it can relate to science. not that i cant relate it, or that i wont.

I think that in fact if it were possible it could be explained. or at least i think that the phenomena i have witnessed could be explained through a set of complex scientific explanations or understandings. but to get down to the facts would be to change my perception, and might impair my openess to such events... or hender me from finding the answers to such a problem.

i think we could all use a little bit more of eachother. but we dont all have the same experiences, the same cultivated ability to understand what we experience. but because we experience things that may seem un real doesnt neccessitat the fact that those events dont exist. it just means that we simply dont have the means to explain or to understand that which we dont. But to try and udnerstand what we dont is our ulitmate goal. and i think it would be much easier if we could communicate better, showing to one another how such and such works. instead of argueing why eachother is right or wrong. Points will never be cleared unless we can stop for a moment. But now that swami has cleared it up i see what sclorch was getting at. there has been no concrete evidence. only the retort of experiences and justifications for the understandings of those experiences.

to me the ultimate problem here, is the lack of communication and understanding on the "opposing" "sides". sometimes i think we tend to get too wrapped up in our own ideas, and that we forget to see that we are all human, and we all share simmilarly the same characteristics, abilities, problems, desires, etc.


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What?

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Swami]
    #1664596 - 06/26/03 01:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Side A believes in the scientific method and that electron theory is basically correct. This "opinion" is transmitted electronically to others on the shroomery.

Side B believes that science is screwed up and that telepathy exists. This "opinion" is also transmitted ELECTRONICALLY via the internet.






flase dilemma. just because you hold an uncommon opinion doesn't mean you don't follow the scientific method.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Malachi]
    #1664623 - 06/26/03 01:41 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Insert "some" in the side B part. The fact remains that those who believe in telepathy are not transmitting their message telepathically while those who believe in science are using that science to transmit their message.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Swami]
    #1664718 - 06/26/03 02:20 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

We live in a positivist world. When the aquarian age dawns and mass paradigm shifts render in a new age of irrationality, the daily news will be broadcast via telepaths. [/sarcasm]

Perhaps the reality is that science works best for some stuff, and suspended ego-judgement (following the maxim that sufficiently advanced, or insufficiently understood, knowledge/technology is comparable to magic to its observers and practitioners) is better for other stuff.

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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Swami]
    #1664826 - 06/26/03 02:54 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

in conjunction with the claimant.




How do you know that the claimant isn't lieing? Whats evidence?, it all has the potential to be false, the only true evidence is something like telekinesis performed RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, or a goverment document signed and sealed (even that could be false). THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, to make one BELIEVE, however there are psi/psychic studys in which would consitute as evidence!


I said it before and ill say it agian. So there no such thing as telepathy, kinesis, future telling, or any of that, its the dellusions of millions. right?


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1669781 - 06/28/03 03:58 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

J5: I said it before and ill say it agian. So there no such thing as telepathy, kinesis, future telling, or any of that, its the dellusions of millions. right?

This is what we call common practice pseudoreasoning.

Ten million French people CAN be wrong.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1669825 - 06/28/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

You can call it what you will, but no label negates the justness of any particular phenomena.

Anything being reported by millions of people should be seriously researched, not laughed at, suppressed, and pushed away.






The transformation starts from within.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Shroomism]
    #1670105 - 06/28/03 07:22 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

You can call it what you will, but no label negates the justness of any particular phenomena.

Justness? Do you mean validity?

Anything being reported by millions of people should be seriously researched, not laughed at, suppressed, and pushed away.

And this is exactly why psychiatrists the world over study and come up with treatments for schizophrenia like they do.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1670231 - 06/28/03 08:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

If you're being sarcastic, forgive my reading you straight.

You'd seriously prefer to attribute metaphysical, transpersonal and parapsychological phenomena to the hallucinations and delusions of the mentally ill than acknowledge that perhaps there is something here that science should approach?

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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
as above, so below
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 1,947
Loc: Malice, Tx
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1670269 - 06/28/03 08:54 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I AM GOD.





that is all :P

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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 20 days, 18 minutes
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Shroomism]
    #1670557 - 06/28/03 11:49 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Are you implying that it was never seriously researched before it was laughed at, repressed, and pushed away?

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1670614 - 06/29/03 12:18 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

You'd seriously prefer to attribute metaphysical, transpersonal and parapsychological phenomena to the hallucinations and delusions of the mentally ill than acknowledge that perhaps there is something here that science should approach?

The title of this thread is "Show Me" Time!! Yay!, is it not?

Unless you have REAL evidence for -{whatever}-, take your weak rhetoric elsewhere.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1672103 - 06/29/03 07:22 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Unless you have REAL evidence for -{whatever}-,




Whats your opinon of evidence?

Quote:

take your weak rhetoric elsewhere




A little harsh!


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1672124 - 06/29/03 07:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

The title schmitle. You dismiss the experience of millions with a sweeping generalization. If you don't share their experience, fine - but don't assume that they are inferior because you are not familiar with what they are talking about.

I can't show you because if you don't notice these types of phenomena you're not going to be swayed by a description of my subjective experience. But you're not going to convince me that positivism holds all the answers unless you can show me how positivism explains the phenomena that I've experienced.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Show Me" Time!! Yay! [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1672345 - 06/29/03 08:58 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

First of all, who said ANYTHING about positivism?
I'm not fond of positivism either (I dislike the dualism of a priori/a posteriori).

You dismiss the experience of millions with a sweeping generalization.
No... these "millions" have not been able to garner a micron of hard evidence. They've dismissed themselves. And I am DAMN tired of having to inform people when they're using pseudoreasoning (hint hint).

but don't assume that they are inferior because you are not familiar with what they are talking about
I said nothing of inferiority. I'm rather adverse to hierarchies in general. The only thing I would call inferior is the "compelling evidence" many around here rave about.

I can't show you because if you don't notice these types of phenomena
No... I'm extremely observant. I don't think that is the issue here.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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