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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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The Hedonistic Imperative
    #1657249 - 06/24/03 12:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

here


this seems like a really nice way to reconcile metaphysical tripped outness with a coherent logic. Sure, it's out there transpersonal logic, but it'd have to be to interest me.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Malachi]
    #1657474 - 06/24/03 02:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yup... someone posted that a long time ago.

Thanks for bringin' it up again. :wink:


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Sclorch]
    #1657557 - 06/24/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

oh. well, maybe we could talk about it anyhow? this is a discussion board and all... no reason not to discuss...


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Malachi]
    #1657615 - 06/24/03 03:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah... I'll go over it tomorrow.

I remember having specific problems with hedweb. Of course, I feel that unbridled hedonism is a crutch for the insecure... but, yeah, tomorrow....


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Malachi]
    #1658072 - 06/24/03 10:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I do not 100% agree with the Hedonistic Imperative but I do believe unhappiness should be and could be eradicated. Alot of it makes extreme sense and I urge anyone to read it!

"Hug me baby, snugly,
'till I'm in a coma,
hug me baby, drug me,
life's as sweet as Soma" :grin:




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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Asante]
    #1658149 - 06/24/03 11:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Creativity and suffering/pain are eternally paired.
Bliss is for automatons.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Sclorch]
    #1658766 - 06/24/03 04:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

then count me in with the automantons.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Malachi]
    #1659106 - 06/24/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Alrighty...
*scribble scribble*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Asante]
    #1660749 - 06/25/03 07:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I just read the page. It makes a lot of sense, but I don't agree 100% either. He thinks cats are nazis. That's a little weird.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1660891 - 06/25/03 11:02 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Now that actually made sense! If you see what well-fed cats do with mice and birds (like my cat)and extrapolate that to humans cats ARE psychopaths!

"Bliss = for automatons". Hmm: first of all I believe we do our parts in the Whole and nothing more or less, so I guess we could be called automatons.

As for creativity being linked to suffering etc.: that is sooo true! Which blissed guy would come up with Auschwitz, Heroshima, nailing people to crosses, the iron maiden, capital punishment, anthrax letters, genocide, the pharmaceuticals patenting system, truckbombs, the teflon-coated bullet, clusterbombs, mustard gas, violent crime, rape, the War on Drugs, Mutual Assured Destruction *vomits against screen*

I respectfully disagree. blissed people create beautiful art, make earthshaking love, write beautiful poems, think up inventions that really help people and the like. All the filth of humanity is caused by our great capacity for experiencing suffering, the vividness with which this is remembered and how negative stimuli of the past deform peoples characters into travesties of the divine beings we are.

If there was a pill I could pop which made me experience a higher level of happiness I would take it. I do not mean a drug but a thing that does not make one high but lessens the impact of negative and enhances the impact of positive stimuli. Evolution HAS gotten our nervous-systems out of whack and the excess unhappiness of us humans isc reflected in what we do to the world at large, both to people close by as far away.


If you piss off a silverback gorilla he throws you on the ground gives you a wholesome fist-pounding and that would be it. He does not do the math, ultracentifuge-seperates the Uranium 235 from the U238, brings two moulded lumps in proximity to another in a metal pipe with cordite propellant, sets the altimeter on 3.000ft airburst, does a flyby over the city where you live and drops the 10 kT motherfucker.

We got real smart real fast as a species, but this has multiplied our unhappiness and I agree with the Hedonistic Imperative finding a cure for this unhappiness would be the greatest finding since the Dawn of Man. I do not agree it needs be a pill or DNA intervention, but what we seek in LSD, what the Mormon seeks in LDS, what makes the junkie bet on the wrong Horse; that which keeps the nymphomaniac in heat, makes the masochist begging for more,that which makes the lovers loving, the composers composing, the laughers laughing..

THAT should be found and be made available as a lifetime option for anyone who desires this. It is our RIGHT to alter our consciousness the way we want just as it is our right to walk to the plastic surgeon, show him a pic of Worf the Klingon and say "make it so".
Forcing bliss on anybody would be as bad as inflicting unwanted pain, ofcourse.


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Sclorch]
    #1660927 - 06/25/03 11:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Creativity and suffering/pain are eternally paired.

I don't know about "eternally", but I am Mr. Creativity and my significant other is Ms. Pain. May be time to shop around...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Swami]
    #1661165 - 06/25/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Trust me, Ms. Pain will never go away while you're still around.  :wink:


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGhengis Khan
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Registered: 01/02/03
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Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Asante]
    #1661916 - 06/25/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

wiccan seeker......

Ek wil net se dat ek dink dis baie goed om n mens te sien wat sy brein gebruik. Jou woorde wys dat jy die hart van n kunstenaar het. Meeste van die mense hier praat net kak die hele tyd.
Ek hoop dat jy my Afrikaans kan verstaan!!!!!


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: The Hedonistic Imperative [Re: Ghengis Khan]
    #1662140 - 06/25/03 07:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

with the whole automantons thing... this is off topic, but I started the thread anyhow.

So how isn't the world deterministic? I have to admit that before watching waking life I didn't really realize how problematic free will is. (this is where Mr. Mushrooms would have jumped in and chastized me for learning pop philosophy from a movie)

so how is the hedonistic imperative really any more deterministic than anything else?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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