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Invisibleteknix
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Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production * 1
    #16549306 - 07/18/12 11:51 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Executive Order:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

Quote:


(NaturalNews) "We told ya so" just doesn't quite cut it anymore. As the American sheeple slept, selfishly refusing to take a stand against tyranny, the Obama administration has been plotting what can only be called a total government takeover of America.

On March 16, 2012, President Obama issued an executive order entitled, "NATIONAL DEFENSE RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS." (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order...)

This executive order states that the President alone has the authority to take over all resources in the nation (labor, food, industry, etc.) as long as it is done "to promote the national defense" -- a phrase so vague that it could mean practically anything.

The power to seize control and take over these resources is delegated to the following government authorities:

(1) the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;

(2) the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;

(3) the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources;

(4) the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation;

(5) the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and

(6) the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials.

This takeover is designed, in part, to "stockpile supplies" for the U.S. military. Authority for this total takeover of all national resources is granted with nothing more than the writing of a single statement that claims these actions are necessary to "promote the national defense." As stated in the order:

the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

(a) by the Secretary of Defense with respect to military production and construction, military assistance to foreign nations, military use of civil transportation, stockpiles managed by the Department of Defense, space, and directly related activities;

What all this means is that the U.S. government now claims the power to simply march onto your farm with guns drawn and demand all your crops, seeds, livestock and farm equipment.

Think I'm exaggerating? Read it yourself!

And for those living in denial who refuse to accept the reality of what's happening in America, remember the following:

• When NaturalNews reported on the existence of the NDAA, we were told our reporting was misleading because Obama opposed it and wouldn't sign it.

• When Obama betrayed America and signed the bill, we were told our reporting was misleading because "it didn't apply to Americans."

• When Obama admitted it did apply to Americans, he announced that he would choose "not to use it on Americans" but only by the grace of his restraint. Nobody who previously accused us of misleading the public had the integrity to offer us an apology and say, "Gee, you were right, it DOES apply to Americans!"

• Now Obama has seized control over all food, farms, livestock, water and transportation across America. How many brain-dead Americans will continue to live in denial and try to convince themselves this is not happening? Sticking your head in the sand does not make this go away...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035301_Obama_executive_orders_food_supply.html#ixzz20zv6o4G7







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Huffington Post:
Quote:


Last Friday, March 16, President Barack Obama may have quietly placed the United States on a war preparedness footing, perhaps in anticipation of an outbreak of war between Israel, the West, and Iran. A newly-propounded Executive Order, titled "National Defense Resources Preparedness," renews and updates the president's power to take control of all civil energy supplies, including oil and natural gas, control and restrict all civil transportation, which is almost 97 percent dependent upon oil; and even provides the option to re-enable a draft in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country, according to a simple reading of the text. The Executive Order was published on the White House website.

The timing of the Order -- with little fanfare -- could not be explained. Opinions among the very first bloggers on the purpose of the unexpected Executive Order run the gamut from the confused to the absurd. None focus on the obvious sudden need for such a pronouncement: oil and its potential for imminent interruption.

If Iran was struck by Israel or the West, or if Iran thought it might be struck, the Tehran regime has promised it would block the Strait of Hormuz, which would obstruct some 40 percent of the world's seaborne oil, some twenty percent of the global supply, and about 20 percent of America's daily needs. Moreover, Tehran has promised military retaliation against any nation it feels has harmed it. The United States is at the top of the list.

Blocking the Strait of Hormuz would create an international and economic calamity of unprecedented severity. Here are the crude realities. America uses approximately 19 to 20 million barrels of oil per day, almost half of which is imported. If we lose just 1 million barrels per day, or suffer the type of damage sustained from Hurricane Katrina, our government will open the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), which offers a mere six- to eight-week supply of unrefined crude oil. If we lose 1.5 million barrels per day, or approximately 7.5 percent, we will ask our allies in the 28-member International Energy Agency to open their SPRs and otherwise assist. If we lose 2 million barrels per day, or 10 percent, for a protracted period, government crisis monitors say the chaos will be so catastrophic, they cannot even model it. One government oil crisis source recently told me: "We cannot put a price tag on it. If it happens, just cash in your 401(k)."

Since 2007, when the prospect of Iran blocking the Strait of Hormuz became a daily threat enunciated by Iran, our local, state, and federal governments at all levels have been criticized for having no specific plan in the event an oil interruption occurred. The National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order appears to be the first step toward developing a potentially vast, far-sweeping plan that could reach into every garage and grocery store shelf. Government experts who watch the day-to-day ebb and flow of oil stocks were surprised at the sudden move. One quipped, "If this is true, it would be such a departure in policy, I can scarcely believe it."

The March 16 Executive Order is based on the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and Section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, and reads as a near-verbatim restatement of President Bill Clinton's 1994 Executive Order 12919, and several other orders of prior presidents. No specific plan was every outlined based any of the enabling Executive Orders.

Obama's Order sets forth as its rationale that "the United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency." It goes on in Section 103 C to authorize the President, "in the event of a potential threat to the security of the United States, to take actions necessary to ensure the availability of adequate resources and production capability, including services and critical technology, for national defense requirements." The task of advising is assigned, in Section 104 to "the National Security Council and Homeland Security Council, in conjunction with the National Economic Council," which "shall make recommendations to the President on the use of authorities under the Act."

Those bodies will relegate their tasks to various secretaries of the Cabinet, specifically, the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources; the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy; the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources; the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation; the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials. Each of these Secretaries, according to Section 201, entitled, "Priorities and Allocations Authorities," will be empowered, subject to the President and his advisers, to "analyze potential effects of national emergencies on actual production capability, taking into account the entire production system, including shortages of resources, and develop recommended preparedness measures to strengthen capabilities for production increases in national emergencies." Their recommendations can, if need be, "control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market."

In subsection D, the Order states, "If agreement cannot be reached between two such Secretaries, then the issue shall be referred to the President through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism." Hence, any arguments between Cabinet members is anticipated and dealt with.

The President, under the Order, will be empowered to order the "military use of civil transportation." If implemented, the Secretary of Energy could rule "with respect to energy production and construction, distribution and use, and directly related activities," in order to achieve "civil defense and continuity of Government."

Sec. 203 is entitled "Maximizing Domestic Energy Supplies." It delegates to the Secretary of Energy "the authority to make findings that materials (including equipment), services, and facilities are critical and essential."

Sec. 204 is entitled "Chemical and Biological Warfare." It ambiguously delegates "the authority of the President ... to the Secretary of Defense."

Part III of the Executive Order empowers the President and his advisers to effect "the expansion of productive capacity and supply." This includes, "Loan Guarantees to reduce current or projected shortfalls of resources, critical technology items, or materials essential for the national defense." Any Federal Reserve Bank is directed to "assist the agency in serving as fiscal agent."

Section 303 allows the government to "enable rapid transition of emerging technologies," that is, demand that certain needed technologies now kept out of the market be accelerated into the market. This could include alternative fuel vehicles which would relieve the approximate 67 percent of every oil barrel that goes to transportation. The same section allows the National Defense Stockpile to take control of strategic materials "if such transfers are in the public interest." Indeed, under Section 306, entitled "Strategic and Critical Materials," the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense as the National Defense Stockpile Manager, are each delegated the authority of the President ... to encourage the exploration, development, and mining of strategic and critical materials and other materials." This includes oil and natural gas. In Section 307, entitled "Substitutes," the national security team is empowered to "make provision for the development of substitutes for strategic and critical materials, critical components, critical technology items, and other resources to aid the national defense." The term "Substitutes" refers to alternative and synthetic fuels, from algae to hydrogen -- many of which are now in advance development.

In the event of an emergency, the Order would empower, "the head of each agency engaged in procurement for the national defense" to "procure and install additional equipment, facilities, processes, or improvements to plants, factories, and other industrial facilities owned by the Federal Government and to procure and install Government-owned equipment in plants, factories, or other industrial facilities owned by private persons."

Stockpiling or prioritizing will not require a state of war. In Section 310 entitled, "Critical Items," the government is empowered "to take appropriate action to ensure that critical components, critical technology items, essential materials, and industrial resources are available from reliable sources when needed to meet defense requirements during peacetime, graduated mobilization, and national emergency. Appropriate action may include restricting contract solicitations to reliable sources, restricting contract solicitations to domestic sources (pursuant to statutory authority), stockpiling critical components, and developing substitutes for critical components or critical technology items."

Part VI is entitled "Labor Requirements," and directs the Secretary of Labor "to collect and maintain data necessary to make a continuing appraisal of the Nation's workforce needs for purposes of national defense. In subsection 2, the Order brings up the non-dormant Draft. It mandates that the Secretary of Labor "upon request by the Director of Selective Service, and in coordination with the Secretary of Defense, assist the Director of Selective Service in development of policies regulating the induction and deferment of persons for duty in the armed services." The Order adds that the Secretary "upon request from the head of an agency with authority under this order, consult with that agency with respect ... to making the exercise of priority and allocations functions consistent with effective utilization and distribution of labor." It goes on to empower "the head of an agency with authority under this order [to] formulate plans, programs, and policies for meeting the labor requirements of actions to be taken for national defense purposes; and estimate training needs to help address national defense requirements and promote necessary and appropriate training programs."

In defining the civil transportation, the Order covers any possible gasoline rationing and vehicle restriction for vehicles that guzzle too much gasoline. The Order specifies "Civil transportation includes movement of persons and property by all modes of transportation in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce within the United States, its territories and possessions, and the District of Columbia, and related public storage and warehousing, ports, services, equipment and facilities. It adds, "Civil transportation" also shall include direction, control, and coordination of civil transportation capacity regardless of ownership" other than "petroleum and gas pipelines, and coal slurry pipelines used only to supply energy production facilities directly." Gasoline rationing and vehicle restriction for poor mileage cars and trucks is a concept already enshrined in the protocols of the Paris-based International Energy Agency. The United States is a member and has signed the treaty that covers such potential restrictions in the event of an oil interruption.

To avoid any doubt, the Order covers "all forms of energy including petroleum, gas (both natural and manufactured), electricity, solid fuels (including all forms of coal, coke, coal chemicals, coal liquification, and coal gasification), solar, wind, other types of renewable energy, atomic energy, and the production, conservation, use, control, and distribution (including pipelines) of all of these forms of energy."

Because any oil interruption would have an immediate impact on the distribution of food, the Order also covers "the production or preparation for market use of food resources." The Order asserts that "food resources" means all commodities and products ... capable of being ingested by either human beings or animals."

The Order explains that "'Special priorities assistance' means action by resource departments to assist with expediting deliveries, placing rated orders, locating suppliers, resolving production or delivery conflicts between various rated orders, addressing problems that arise in the fulfillment of a rated order or other action authorized by a delegated agency, and determining the validity of rated orders." In other words, the control of food and strategic materials, including oil, will be under federal purview, should an emergency occur and the Order invoked.

At press time, administration sources could not be reached to elaborate on the timing of what many see as a year's overdue preparation for an oil interruption. Such an interruption and its disastrous consequence have been threatened for years. In short, for many years there has been no plan. But now apparently, the legal authority to organize a specific plan has been renewed and updated in crystal clarity.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/obama-national-defense-resources-preparedness_b_1359715.html




Executive Order:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

Edited by teknix (07/18/12 10:36 PM)

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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16549329 - 07/18/12 11:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

“If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” - TJ

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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: DeadHearts] * 2
    #16549339 - 07/18/12 12:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
“If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” - TJ




That doesn't make sense.  Did you even read the article?

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InvisibleDeadHearts

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: abltsandwich]
    #16549352 - 07/18/12 12:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
“If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” - TJ




That doesn't make sense.  Did you even read the article?





Did the article mention this.....? If so yes I read it.



The power to seize control and take over these resources is delegated to the following government authorities:

(1) the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;

(2) the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;

(3) the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources;

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Invisiblecasket
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: abltsandwich]
    #16549355 - 07/18/12 12:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: casket]
    #16549427 - 07/18/12 12:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure this applies to a potential nuclear war or something catastrophic.

And technically, everybody already knew that if something that bad happens, the government would take control of everything anyway.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Patlal]
    #16549501 - 07/18/12 01:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They kinda have control over that stuff anyway.

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Invisibleohforkiefssake
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Patlal]
    #16549507 - 07/18/12 01:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I really think if any of this starts happening (and we can see it starting with the healthcare) people are going to FLIP.

Revolution here we come!!!

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Patlal]
    #16549511 - 07/18/12 01:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, there are not restrictions for times of war is there?

It means if your farm is in the way of a direct route to a base or something, they can just take it to put a road there, everything is now imminent domain. Not only the land, but everything else you own in this regard as well.

Everything the the government wants is belong to them. (officially)

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OfflineAll We Perceive
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16549919 - 07/18/12 02:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It would be interesting to see if acting on this executive order would be constitutional in light of youngstown sheet and tube v sawyer.  Given the lack of declaration of war or "emergency," it seems like it wouldn't be unless congress authorized it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550008 - 07/18/12 03:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
No, there are not restrictions for times of war is there?

It means if your farm is in the way of a direct route to a base or something, they can just take it to put a road there, everything is now imminent domain. Not only the land, but everything else you own in this regard as well.

Everything the the government wants is belong to them. (officially)



Dude...seriously...you havent the first fucking clue what you're talking about.  This executive order does nothing of the kind...

If you had read the actual executive order (I read all of them), you would know that the order only allows for government contracts to take priority over non government contracts if the need arises...They can't "seize" control of anything...They just get to buy the first widgets the company makes.



And this should be in the conspiracy forum.


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Edited by Enlil (07/18/12 03:14 PM)

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550015 - 07/18/12 03:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Isn't this what happened in WWII anyway? Doesn't seem too new.


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: twighead]
    #16550090 - 07/18/12 03:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Vote for change...

Didn't say what kind...


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Offlinegreenspectral
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550132 - 07/18/12 03:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

teknix said:
No, there are not restrictions for times of war is there?

It means if your farm is in the way of a direct route to a base or something, they can just take it to put a road there, everything is now imminent domain. Not only the land, but everything else you own in this regard as well.

Everything the the government wants is belong to them. (officially)



Dude...seriously...you havent the first fucking clue what you're talking about.  This executive order does nothing of the kind...

If you had read the actual executive order (I read all of them), you would know that the order only allows for government contracts to take priority over non government contracts if the need arises...They can't "seize" control of anything...They just get to buy the first widgets the company makes.



And this should be in the conspiracy forum.




Yeah? And who determines the need???


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: greenspectral]
    #16550142 - 07/18/12 03:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Does it matter?  They can't take anything...They can BUY stuff..but they always could.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550199 - 07/18/12 03:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


(e)  foster cooperation between the defense and commercial sectors for research and development and for acquisition of materials, services, components, and equipment to enhance industrial base efficiency and responsiveness.

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Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.  (a)  The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1)  the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;

(2)  the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;

(3)  the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources;

(4)  the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation;

(5)  the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and

(6)  the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials.

(b)  The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions.  Each Secretary shall authorize the heads of other agencies, as appropriate, to place priority ratings on contracts and orders for materials, services, and facilities needed in support of programs approved under section 202 of this order.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

(a)  by the Secretary of Defense with respect to military production and construction, military assistance to foreign nations, military use of civil transportation, stockpiles managed by the Department of Defense, space, and directly related activities;

(b)  by the Secretary of Energy with respect to energy production and construction, distribution and use, and directly related activities; and

(c)  by the Secretary of Homeland Security with respect to all other national defense programs, including civil defense and continuity of Government.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550207 - 07/18/12 03:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly!  Now you're getting it!  You'll notice that it doesn't give anyone the power to seize anything.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550217 - 07/18/12 03:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes it does.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550220 - 07/18/12 03:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote the part that says that...


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550228 - 07/18/12 03:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It says "(b)  The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions.  Each Secretary shall authorize the heads of other agencies, as appropriate, to place priority ratings on contracts and orders for materials, services, and facilities needed in support of programs approved under section 202 of this order."

Allocate resources and stockpile them means they can take your shit and you can't do a damn thing about it. This says they can do it regardless if it is for an emergency or not.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550243 - 07/18/12 03:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No...your reading comprehension is horrid...

Nowhere in that order does it say that the government can simply take what they need...


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550246 - 07/18/12 03:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
It says "(b)  The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions.  Each Secretary shall authorize the heads of other agencies, as appropriate, to place priority ratings on contracts and orders for materials, services, and facilities needed in support of programs approved under section 202 of this order."

Allocate resources and stockpile them means they can take your shit and you can't do a damn thing about it. This says they can do it regardless if it is for an emergency or not.




Seems like your argument lacks any remote comprehension, as it is shown and spelled out for you and you still just say "no", good argument!

:tard:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550250 - 07/18/12 03:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

repeat it a dozen times...it won't change the meaning...


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550263 - 07/18/12 03:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It says it right there in the order. Read it. I even took time to quote it for you and bold the areas of interest.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550269 - 07/18/12 03:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

allocate =/= seize

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550287 - 07/18/12 03:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Allocate + stock pile = seize.

Do you understand what reallocating resources means?

Quote:


reallocate [riːˈæləkeɪt]
vb (tr)
to assign or allot to a different purpose or person from the one originally intended
reallocation  n
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reallocate




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550303 - 07/18/12 04:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Here is allocate if you are still confused:

Quote:


al·lo·cate  (l-kt)
tr.v. al·lo·cat·ed, al·lo·cat·ing, al·lo·cates
1. To set apart for a special purpose; designate: allocate a room to be used for storage.
2. To distribute according to a plan; allot: allocate rations for a week-long camping trip.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Allocation





It means they can take your stuff and put it somewhere else for their purpose. Or even just take your stuff and use it for their purpose where it is.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550309 - 07/18/12 04:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Your quoted portion does not contain the word "reallocate"

Your understanding of this executive order is incorrect. I challenge you to find one trained and licensed attorney who agrees with your interpretation of the order. 

You won't do that, because to those of us that know how to read law...it is crystal fucking clear.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550316 - 07/18/12 04:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

LOL, all you do is claim without any backing up of those claims. Good argument! I don't care about your opinion and the comprehension is in question. Therefore you can't use that as the basis for the argument because it makes it circular and without ending. Like the next rebuttal you present will be.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550325 - 07/18/12 04:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Dude...you claim allocate + stockpile means "seize"...you haven't proven that at all..

Until you do, you're talking out of your ass...and I'd rather not have to smell it.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550334 - 07/18/12 04:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter what word is used, I would prefer to use the word "STEAL".

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550342 - 07/18/12 04:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


steal
   [steel] Show IPA ,verb, stole, sto·len, steal·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3.
to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4.
to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into,  etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5.
Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.





They are giving themselves the *right* to steal, so it doesn't necessarily fit, even though it is what it is.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550348 - 07/18/12 04:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Okay...you use whatever word you want...  There's nothing in that order that gives the government the power to take anything.  They can force a company to sell them what they need before they sell it to other people...that's it.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550354 - 07/18/12 04:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

ROFLMAO, then what do you think the order does?

It says nothing about a company or that this order is restricted to any company. It is in regards to all materials defined in section 201:

Quote:


Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.  (a)  The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1)  the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;

(2)  the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;

(3)  the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources;

(4)  the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation;

(5)  the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and

(6)  the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials.




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550363 - 07/18/12 04:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What part of "to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders" is unclear to you?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550384 - 07/18/12 04:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.





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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550385 - 07/18/12 04:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Natural news is known as a kooky conspiracy website. Don't believe everything you read on the net, son.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Le_Canard]
    #16550389 - 07/18/12 04:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm reading the actual order, what they say about it is beside the point.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550403 - 07/18/12 04:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That doesn't allow them to steal...it allows them to force the sale of stuff to the government...

You might not know it, but we have a constitution...and it prohibits the government from taking things without paying for it.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550405 - 07/18/12 04:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.









So except for "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

There, I put it in order for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer say except for all resources.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550413 - 07/18/12 04:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, just like they were saying that they'd confiscate all the guns and herd everyone into FEMA camps when Obama first began in office.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550418 - 07/18/12 04:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's talking about wartime rationing, dude. Settle down.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Doc_T]
    #16550428 - 07/18/12 04:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nah, dude, it says emergency or non-emergency. That isn't restricted to war-time anywhere, unfortunately. If so then where the hell do you see that?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Le_Canard]
    #16550452 - 07/18/12 04:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Yes, just like they were saying that they'd confiscate all the guns and herd everyone into FEMA camps when Obama first began in office.




They also claimed that mercury were in the vaccines and no one cared or listened. This order they could take your guns if they would fall into this category "(6)  the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials.".

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Doc_T]
    #16550499 - 07/18/12 04:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
That's talking about wartime rationing, dude. Settle down.




when is the fascist govt.-military-industrial complex not feigning a wartime condition in order to ramp up preemptive aggression in the last, oh, 60 odd years???

man, some people on this forum REALLY want to uphold the status quo...seems ironic.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550500 - 07/18/12 04:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This is basically saying screw democracy, we are socialists now.

Quote:


Socialism play /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership, control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550537 - 07/18/12 04:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

this really is a conspiracy theories topic because it's a scare tactic from a
nutter site claiming shit that simply isnt factual, unfortunately it's
copy/paste garbage with nothing added from yourself, you've already gotten it
from a lawyer, now get it from a farmer. 'natural news' isnt news, it's
tabloid trash from retarded conspiracy nuts

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550543 - 07/18/12 04:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Take off your tin foil hat bro.  The order should be interpreted to coincide with the constitution.  Granted, allocate is an unclear word and being that the constitution prohibits redistribution of property without compensation, compensation must be given where property is seized.  Whether the president can control entire markets though, especially when we are not at a declared war and where congress has not authorized that is another matter entirely.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550545 - 07/18/12 04:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

basically, you are just wrong and too prideful to accept what a licensed attorney pointed out, DIRECTLY.
Enlil already pointed this out, they can't take it without paying for it. Read into 'imminent domain'.

Yeah, the government can take anything they want, but you must be compensated in return. They own the land you live on. Yes, you 'own' the property under the order of the Federal Government.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550557 - 07/18/12 04:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever you believe, or suspect, or know in gist but not fine detail, and so on,

By now most everyone has settled into a frame of mind, and the time for waking anyone up has now passed.

The stress and anxiety you suffer is poor for your health, and the frustration you feel when trying to convince others will only slowly, clandestinely turn you wicked.

You may be correct. They may be correct. You may neither or even both be correct, in part. But neither you nor your opponent in debate are going to change your minds.

And if grave change is going to come, then it is going to come regardless of who muses of its coming online and in their houses.

Your only duty is to be as prepared as you can be to be able to defend yourself and anyone for whom you care, and to be able to live independently without civilization.

Aside from this you need only be still, enjoy the here and now while it lasts, and be prepared to keep your soul among the savages of crisis.

And all will be as it was meant to be, for better or worse, as humanity learns.

Now go smoke a bowl and relax. *hug*

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550567 - 07/18/12 04:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i bet he would receive great support in the conspiracy forum; man there are whack jobs in there.

however, i highly suggest mentioning some key words in your post there teknix such as 'alex jones', 'FEMA camps' and 'NWO'.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: All We Perceive]
    #16550568 - 07/18/12 04:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

All We Perceive said:
Take off your tin foil hat bro.  The order should be interpreted to coincide with the constitution.  Granted, allocate is an unclear word and being that the constitution prohibits redistribution of property without compensation, compensation must be given where property is seized.  Whether the president can control entire markets though, especially when we are not at a declared war and where congress has not authorized that is another matter entirely.




farmers would sooner destroy their crops and livestock than be taxed and have
their shit seized, it's been done before over simple economic policy. all
this allows for is any producer with a government contract is obligated to
provide for fulfilling  the government contract prior to private sales
in times of natural disasters or war

this shit's been in place since WWII in some form or another

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550574 - 07/18/12 04:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SoreSpore said:
i bet he would receive great support in the conspiracy forum; man there are whack jobs in there.

however, i highly suggest mentioning some key words in your post there teknix such as 'alex jones', 'FEMA camps' and 'NWO'.





the article he linked to already cites alex jones' prison planet and info wars heavily

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550588 - 07/18/12 04:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this really is a conspiracy theories topic because it's a scare tactic from a
nutter site claiming shit that simply isnt factual, unfortunately it's
copy/paste garbage with nothing added from yourself, you've already gotten it
from a lawyer, now get it from a farmer. 'natural news' isnt news, it's
tabloid trash from retarded conspiracy nuts




No it's not, the same thing can be presented directly from the order as I have done.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550592 - 07/18/12 04:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That was one single citation which isn't the issue, the actual link to the actual order is the question, not what people are saying about it or their credibility, that is all beside the point. The order is not a conspiracy theory, it does in fact exist.

Edited by teknix (07/18/12 05:01 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550596 - 07/18/12 04:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SoreSpore said:
i bet he would receive great support in the conspiracy forum





People dont get support in the conspiracy forum. The same people that bash posters in the pub
in regards to threads like these bash them there instead. Its like theres a panel of "sane/normal"
people who sit around saying prove it ya crazy piece of shit. Its a pathetic circle jerk.

Just Another form of divide and conquer. You are different from me so I will demean and belittle your
beliefs.

:puke:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550597 - 07/18/12 04:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SoreSpore said:
basically, you are just wrong and too prideful to accept what a licensed attorney pointed out, DIRECTLY.
Enlil already pointed this out, they can't take it without paying for it. Read into 'imminent domain'.

Yeah, the government can take anything they want, but you must be compensated in return. They own the land you live on. Yes, you 'own' the property under the order of the Federal Government.




Who is the licensed attorney and what exactly was pointed out? I must have missed it. :shrug:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: greenspectral]
    #16550613 - 07/18/12 05:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

greenspectral said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
That's talking about wartime rationing, dude. Settle down.




when is the fascist govt.-military-industrial complex not feigning a wartime condition in order to ramp up preemptive aggression in the last, oh, 60 odd years???





When in the last sixty years have you seen rationing in this country????

Couple of times it might have been useful, like with Cabbage Patch Dolls.
But there wasn't any rationing. Status quo at this time is no rationing, and yes I support there being no rationing.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Patlal]
    #16550614 - 07/18/12 05:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I'm pretty sure this applies to a potential nuclear war or something catastrophic.

And technically, everybody already knew that if something that bad happens, the government would take control of everything anyway.




People seem to panic over news like this before it occurs to them that it would take a national catastrophe of epic proportions to justify the invocation of powers like these.

I know "society" seems like a horde of zombies to your miserable worldview, but they're not going to up and start rounding up the malcontents over a false-flag attack. If the antagonists of your paranoid fantasy were so powerful they would have no need for executive orders.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550615 - 07/18/12 05:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Who is the licensed attorney and what exactly was pointed out? I must have missed it. :shrug:



I am...and you should do a search for the "takings clause."


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550638 - 07/18/12 05:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

So what you are saying is that this executive order is illegal?

If that is not what you are saying then I still don't see your point, I would definitely never hire you to defend me.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550643 - 07/18/12 05:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this really is a conspiracy theories topic because it's a scare tactic from a
nutter site claiming shit that simply isnt factual, unfortunately it's
copy/paste garbage with nothing added from yourself, you've already gotten it
from a lawyer, now get it from a farmer. 'natural news' isnt news, it's
tabloid trash from retarded conspiracy nuts




No it's not, the same thing can be presented directly from the order as I have done.





I'm a fucking farmer, it;s in my best interest to keep up on shit like this
and it's certainly not the first time this shit's been posted just like the
codex alamentarious bullshit, these people are making you into a fool

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550649 - 07/18/12 05:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Then explain it if you can, because you aren't making sense to me.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550654 - 07/18/12 05:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm out. Bye everybody, have fun. :wave:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550655 - 07/18/12 05:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I would definitely never hire you to defend me.



this is my favorite attack.
because it has been clearly stated that you are incorrect, Enlil's ability to defend his clients is immediately attacked.
quality thread, and even better retreat to personal attacks!
:thumbup:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550662 - 07/18/12 05:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

OP is never gonna get it.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550668 - 07/18/12 05:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Then explain the fucking purpose of the order. If we already have an eminent domain law, why the fuck is this order necessary?

Quote:


The Supreme Court has held that the federal government and each state has the power of eminent domain—the power to take private property for "public use". The Takings Clause, the last clause of the Fifth Amendment, limits the power of eminent domain by requiring that "just compensation" be paid if private property is taken for public use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution





This is power for the states, now the federal government is giving itself the right to this power and even more then this gives to the states.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550673 - 07/18/12 05:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
That was one single citation which isn't the issue, the actual link to the actual order is the question, not what people are saying about it or their credibility, that is all beside the point. The order is not a conspiracy theory, it does in fact exist.





actual link to the actual order

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

actual link to the act that it addresses as it currently reads

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1677:
http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=3590

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550684 - 07/18/12 05:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I already posted the actual link.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550685 - 07/18/12 05:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The order is an executive order...it isn't law....It is an order explaining how law should be executed...in this case, it says who has the authority to prioritize contracts in which areas of commerce..


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550693 - 07/18/12 05:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
OP is never gonna get it.




You are a lawyer and you don't seem to get it, Do you understand the difference between state and federal power? It doesn't seem like it to me.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550698 - 07/18/12 05:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Then explain it if you can, because you aren't making sense to me.





I'm not making sense? if plain simple english makes no sense to you then it's clear that nothing will

how about you cite the part from the EO that says they're seizing my farm?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix] * 1
    #16550701 - 07/18/12 05:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:doublefacepalm:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16550707 - 07/18/12 05:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That doesn't allow them to steal...it allows them to force the sale of stuff to the government...

You might not know it, but we have a constitution...and it prohibits the government from taking things without paying for it.





Yeah the federal government Mr. lawyer.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550725 - 07/18/12 05:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Then explain it if you can, because you aren't making sense to me.





I'm not making sense? if plain simple english makes no sense to you then it's clear that nothing will

how about you cite the part from the EO that says they're seizing my farm?





Quote:


Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.  (a)  The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1)  the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550731 - 07/18/12 05:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly, I want to be wrong about this, so do me a favor and show me how the federal government is not expanding the eminent domain clause to itself.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix] * 1
    #16550737 - 07/18/12 05:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Can you read? That thing says the government has first priority buying stuff.

Dude, WTF? :braindamage:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #16550748 - 07/18/12 05:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You know, it pisses me off when people come and tell me about FEMA camps and collectivization as if it's actually happening, because for a split-second I actually believe it and it raises my fucking stress level.

If you're addicted to corticosteroids then fine, just don't involve me in your goddamn panic fantasy. :uhno:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16550753 - 07/18/12 05:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Can you read? That thing says the government has first priority buying stuff.

Dude, WTF? :braindamage:




Quote:


The federal courts have not restrained state and local governments from seizing privately owned land for private commercial development on behalf of private developers. This was upheld on June 23, 2005, when the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Kelo v. City of New London. This 5–4 decision remains controversial. The majority opinion, by Justice Stevens, found that it was appropriate to defer to the city's decision that the development plan had a public purpose, saying that "the city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including, but not limited to, new jobs and increased tax revenue." Justice Kennedy's concurring opinion observed that in this particular case the development plan was not "of primary benefit to . . . the developer" and that if that was the case the plan might have been impermissible. In the dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor argued that this decision would allow the rich to benefit at the expense of the poor, asserting that "Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms." She argued that the decision eliminates "any distinction between private and public use of property—and thereby effectively delete[s] the words 'for public use' from the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550755 - 07/18/12 05:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

.

Edited by Prisoner#1 (07/18/12 05:33 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550770 - 07/18/12 05:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Then explain it if you can, because you aren't making sense to me.





I'm not making sense? if plain simple english makes no sense to you then it's clear that nothing will

how about you cite the part from the EO that says they're seizing my farm?





Quote:


Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.  (a)  The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1)  the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness









this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: SoreSpore]
    #16550772 - 07/18/12 05:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SoreSpore said:
This has already been explained multiple times. You are intentional not understanding it.

If you are serious and not trolling intentionally; then you are without a doubt, the most incapable, incompetent imbecile that i have ever had the misfortune of interacting with. It is beyond my understanding  that you have yet to conceive the fallacies of your comprehension of the TEXT THAT WE ARE ALL READING.

I'm just boiling here and I need to leave the internet...




I haven't understood it, and those are personalisms.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550778 - 07/18/12 05:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Then explain it if you can, because you aren't making sense to me.





I'm not making sense? if plain simple english makes no sense to you then it's clear that nothing will

how about you cite the part from the EO that says they're seizing my farm?





Quote:


Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.  (a)  The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1)  the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness









this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property





It doesn't seem to matter, I already showed why with this:

Quote:


The federal courts have not restrained state and local governments from seizing privately owned land for private commercial development on behalf of private developers. This was upheld on June 23, 2005, when the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Kelo v. City of New London. This 5–4 decision remains controversial. The majority opinion, by Justice Stevens, found that it was appropriate to defer to the city's decision that the development plan had a public purpose, saying that "the city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including, but not limited to, new jobs and increased tax revenue." Justice Kennedy's concurring opinion observed that in this particular case the development plan was not "of primary benefit to . . . the developer" and that if that was the case the plan might have been impermissible. In the dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor argued that this decision would allow the rich to benefit at the expense of the poor, asserting that "Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms." She argued that the decision eliminates "any distinction between private and public use of property—and thereby effectively delete[s] the words 'for public use' from the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix] * 2
    #16550785 - 07/18/12 05:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Have you read about Kelo v. City of New London at all? Do you know what the case is about? Dude... why don't you just turn off the computer and get some sleep or take a hike.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550792 - 07/18/12 05:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property





I know people personally that have been railroaded by the state already. If your property is in a location that the city or state wants to use, you're shit out of luck. I saw a guy lose an auto-shop in my home town because it was were the city wanted to expand a parking lot for an expo.

It doesn't matter how much money his business was making or how great a spot it was, they only payed what they want to pay, which is the land property value. Now there is a parking lot there, he wasn't affiliated with the government.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16550800 - 07/18/12 05:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Have you read about Kelo v. City of New London at all? Do you know what the case is about? Dude... why don't you just turn off the computer and get some sleep or take a hike.




The case isn't as important as much as how the law is interpreted in that case by the supreme court.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550806 - 07/18/12 05:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property





I know people personally that have been railroaded by the state already. If your property is in a location that the city or state wants to use, you're shit out of luck. I saw a guy lose an auto-shop in my home town because it was were the city wanted to expand a parking lot for an expo.

It doesn't matter how much money his business was making or how great a spot it was, they only payed what they want to pay, which is the land property value. Now there is a parking lot there, he wasn't affiliated with the government.





and now here you are once again trying to play connect the dots when there
are no dots to connect, eminent domain is a different critter with no
relationship to this executive order and I too have seen people who've lost
property for roadway construction and other uses and they were compensated
most were well over fair market value

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix] * 1
    #16550808 - 07/18/12 05:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Have you read about Kelo v. City of New London at all? Do you know what the case is about? Dude... why don't you just turn off the computer and get some sleep or take a hike.




The case isn't as important as much as how the law is interpreted in that case by the supreme court.




That "the dots" of executive policy could theoretically be connected to form the picture of a Communist nightmare speaks more of your imagination than any real threat. You're just masquerading your paranoia as civic responsibility.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550809 - 07/18/12 05:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Obama is going to put chemicals in our food supply that will make everyone BLACK!
:tinfoil:

I hate sites like naturalnews.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550810 - 07/18/12 05:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property





I know people personally that have been railroaded by the state already. If your property is in a location that the city or state wants to use, you're shit out of luck. I saw a guy lose an auto-shop in my home town because it was were the city wanted to expand a parking lot for an expo.

It doesn't matter how much money his business was making or how great a spot it was, they only payed what they want to pay, which is the land property value. Now there is a parking lot there, he wasn't affiliated with the government.





and now here you are once again trying to play connect the dots when there
are no dots to connect, eminent domain is a different critter with no
relationship to this executive order




That is what the lawyer was pointing too.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16550817 - 07/18/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Have you read about Kelo v. City of New London at all? Do you know what the case is about? Dude... why don't you just turn off the computer and get some sleep or take a hike.




The case isn't as important as much as how the law is interpreted in that case by the supreme court.




That "the dots" of executive policy could theoretically be connected to form the picture of a Communist nightmare speaks more of your imagination than any real threat. You're just masquerading your paranoia as civic responsibility.




Nope, I'm seeking to understand how I am wrong. No one has shown me why, that I see.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550819 - 07/18/12 05:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

no, it's not

he's already pointed out that your reading comprehension sucks

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: The_Aviator]
    #16550820 - 07/18/12 05:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The_Aviator said:
Obama is going to put chemicals in our food supply that will make everyone BLACK!
:tinfoil:

I hate sites like naturalnews.




Crap like this gums up the whole process, drives the gullible to paranoia, into hiding and out of action. It's infuriating to witness.

Maybe we're better off with the gullible politically paralyzed? I see armies of the gullible who are politically mobilized and it doesn't help the process.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550824 - 07/18/12 05:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Rofl, then your articulation sucks just as well.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550826 - 07/18/12 05:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly, when i read naturalnews I thought fear mongering at first, I thought it was just conspiracy B.S. until I actually did research to verify what they are saying.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550841 - 07/18/12 05:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Defense Production Act

The Defense Production Act (Pub.L. 81-774) is a United States law enacted on September 8, 1950, in response to the start of the Korean War. It was part of a broad civil defense and war mobilization effort in the context of the Cold War. Its implementing regulations, the Defense Priorities and Allocation System (DPAS), are located at 15 CFR §§700 to 700.93. The Act has been periodically reauthorized and amended, and remains in force as of 2012.

The Act contains three major sections. The first authorizes the President to require businesses to sign contracts or fulfill orders deemed necessary for national defense. The second authorizes the President to establish mechanisms (such as regulations, orders or agencies) to allocate materials, services and facilities to promote national defense. The third section authorizes the President to control the civilian economy so that scarce and/or critical materials necessary to the national defense effort are available for defense needs.[1]





The order is in regards to this^

It now says emergency or non emergency allocation and stockpiling of a broad range of stuff.

Edited by teknix (07/18/12 06:09 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550909 - 07/18/12 06:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

So will Eminent Domain require the Federal Government give just compensation for items acquired? Even if they are required to compensate it still seems like BS.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550943 - 07/18/12 06:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:


Defense Production Act

The Defense Production Act (Pub.L. 81-774) is a United States law enacted on September 8, 1950, in response to the start of the Korean War. It was part of a broad civil defense and war mobilization effort in the context of the Cold War. Its implementing regulations, the Defense Priorities and Allocation System (DPAS), are located at 15 CFR §§700 to 700.93. The Act has been periodically reauthorized and amended, and remains in force as of 2012.

The Act contains three major sections. The first authorizes the President to require businesses to sign contracts or fulfill orders deemed necessary for national defense. The second authorizes the President to establish mechanisms (such as regulations, orders or agencies) to allocate materials, services and facilities to promote national defense. The third section authorizes the President to control the civilian economy so that scarce and/or critical materials necessary to the national defense effort are available for defense needs.[1]





The order is in regards to this^

It now says emergency or non emergency allocation and stockpiling of a broad range of stuff.





so show us where a business was forced to sign a contract with the
government and especially show us where they recieved no compensation
for providing a good or service to government under that forced contract

the government over pays, people jump all over a government contract, wanna
sell some ash trays, make them unbreakable and sell them for $900 each to
the government when there is no smoking in government buildings. how about
a $1300 hammer. interested in signing a contract?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550953 - 07/18/12 06:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I haven't read any of your comments, but from the article alone. I would say this is a WW3 preparation.  Obama knows tensions are high, and big powers are involved.  I don't agree with it, but I understand the reasoning.  In desperate times, capitalism and freedom may fall victim to communism and control, but probably for the better.:feelsbadman:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16550957 - 07/18/12 06:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
So will Eminent Domain require the Federal Government give just compensation for items acquired? Even if they are required to compensate it still seems like BS.





the bill of rights requires it, maybe you should read the bill of rights

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16550988 - 07/18/12 06:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter what is already written, it is how the laws are being interpreted, I already gave a prime example in direct relation to this argument:

Quote:



The federal courts have not restrained state and local governments from seizing privately owned land for private commercial development on behalf of private developers. This was upheld on June 23, 2005, when the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Kelo v. City of New London. This 5–4 decision remains controversial. The majority opinion, by Justice Stevens, found that it was appropriate to defer to the city's decision that the development plan had a public purpose, saying that "the city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including, but not limited to, new jobs and increased tax revenue." Justice Kennedy's concurring opinion observed that in this particular case the development plan was not "of primary benefit to . . . the developer" and that if that was the case the plan might have been impermissible. In the dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor argued that this decision would allow the rich to benefit at the expense of the poor, asserting that "Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms." She argued that the decision eliminates "any distinction between private and public use of property—and thereby effectively delete[s] the words 'for public use' from the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution





So if a similar case were to come up like this then the city/county/states/federals attorney simply refers to this decision that was upheld by the supreme court.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551003 - 07/18/12 06:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

and that has fuckall to do with what I said

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551013 - 07/18/12 06:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That it doesn't matter what our constitution or bill of rights says, it matters how it is interpreted by the judges.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551027 - 07/18/12 06:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Here is a good example for you pris, first thing that popped up:

Quote:



In a court filing in his pending civil case, the Justice Department alleges that Mr. Stio's deposits were structured to illegally avoid an anti-money-laundering rule that requires a cash transaction of more than $10,000 to be reported to federal authorities. Mr. Stio made 21 deposits over a four-month period, each $10,000 or less, the filing said.

Steven L. Kessler, Mr. Stio's attorney, says there was no attempt to evade the law and that the deposits merely reflected the amount of cash his client's businesses, a security firm and bar, had produced. Mr. Stio was saving to buy a house, he says.

A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment on the case.

Speaking about civil forfeiture broadly, another Justice Department official called it a tool of "critical" importance in taking away the ill-gotten gains of international criminal organizations operating in the U.S. Otherwise, participants in criminal operations such as these might often be beyond federal authorities' reach, leaving asset seizure as one of the ways authorities can target an operation.

In fiscal year 2010, there were more than 11,000 noncriminal forfeiture cases, according to available federal statistics. That figure has held fairly steady the past five years.

It's tough to know how many innocent parties may be improperly pulled into the forfeiture system. Last year, claimants challenged more than 1,800 civil-forfeiture actions in federal court, Justice Department figures show.

Justice Department officials say they rarely lose such cases, a fact they cite as evidence the system is working properly. Forfeiture attorneys counter that the government often settles cases, returning at least part of the seized assets, if it thinks it might lose.

Part of the debate over seizures involves a potential conflict of interest: Under a 1984 federal law, state and local law-enforcement agencies that work with Uncle Sam on seizures get to keep up to 80% of the proceeds.

Last year, under this "equitable-sharing" program, the federal government paid out more than $500 million, up about 75% from a decade ago.

The payments give authorities an "improper profit incentive" to seize assets, says Scott Bullock of the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public-interest law firm in Arlington, Va. It's a particular concern amid current state and local government budget problems, he contends.

Justice Department officials say the 8,000 state and local agencies in the equitable-sharing program have greatly expanded the federal government's ability to go after criminal activities, particularly the movement of drugs and drug cash along the nation's highways. The program is monitored to ensure seizures are handled properly, they add.

Seeming abuses occasionally emerge. In 2008, federal Judge Joseph Bataillon ordered the return of $20,000 taken from a man during a traffic stop in Douglas County, Neb. Judge Battaillon quoted from a recording of the seizure, in which a sheriff's deputy complained about the man's attitude and suggested "we take his money and, um, count it as a drug seizure."

The judge's order said the case produced "overwhelming evidence" that the funds were clean.

Douglas County Sheriff Tim Dunning said the remarks made by his officers on the recording were "uncalled for" and "had a potential for tainting the case." But overall, he says, the seizure was handled properly. Since 2002, he says, his department has earned $11 million in equitable-sharing money.

A spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's office in Nebraska said the deputy's remarks were "a rare and isolated event."

About a decade ago, the forfeiture system got a major overhaul. The 2000 Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act, or Cafra, put in protections for individuals, including increasing the government's burden of proof in many proceedings. Cafra also extended forfeiture powers to additional crimes.

Cafra's new safeguards didn't go far enough, critics argue. For instance, reformers failed to win a broad guarantee that poor people would have access to a lawyer. "It isn't much good to say you have the right to get your property back if you can't afford a lawyer," said the late Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill.) at a 1999 congressional hearing.

Jorge Jaramillo, a construction worker, says he couldn't afford a lawyer after more than $16,000 was seized from him last year in a traffic stop. "I had all of $20 left," he says.

In a Delaware federal-court filing, the Justice Department argued the money was related to drug dealing. It pointed to air fresheners in the car, which could mask the smell of drugs, and a fast-food bag containing cigar tobacco, which the filing said was often a sign that the cigar wrapper had been used to smoke marijuana.

The filing also said a police dog had signaled that the cash carried residue of illegal drugs. Such "dog sniffs" are a common but controversial feature in forfeitures.

Mr. Smith, the Virginia attorney, represented Mr. Jaramillo at no upfront cost. In court documents, Mr. Jaramillo, who wasn't charged with a crime, said he was carrying the money because he was traveling to buy a car from a seller who wanted cash.

The government in May agreed to return Mr. Jaramillo's money, with interest. Mr. Smith was also awarded $6,000 in attorney's fees. Under Cafra, attorneys' fees in civil-forfeiture cases are at least partially payable if the claimant wins.

The Cafra reforms helped Mr. Jaramillo find a lawyer even though he says he had no money. Still, forfeiture attorneys say this feature of the law is being eroded in some instances. In April, the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found that the Cafra attorney's fee should be paid to the client, not directly to the lawyer. Lawyers say this makes it possible for the government to seize their fees if the client has a tax lien or other obligation.

Mr. Lieto, the New York businessman, discovered the frustrations an innocent party can face as he worked for months to keep open his check-cashing business after federal agents seized his firm's working capital.

For years, according to court filings, Mr. Lieto used an armored-car company to pick up cash from his bank for delivery to his check-cashing outlets. The sealed bank bags were routinely stored overnight in the car company's vault. In February 2010, the FBI raid seized the $19 million as part of the fraud probe.

Under the law, an innocent third party generally can't seek an asset's return until the underlying criminal case is resolved, which can take time. In this case, two men pleaded guilty last fall to a multi-million-dollar fraud.

An innocent party's money is returnable if it's clearly separate from the fraud. Mr. Lieto's two sealed and marked bank bags with the $392,000 qualified, his attorney, Mr. Kessler, argued in court filings. Others among the scores of customers made similar claims.

The government countered that the crooks' operation, which included the armored-car service, routinely commingled customers' money. Thus, everyone had to get in line as fraud victims.

Court records indicate that fraud victims might get about 25 cents or less on the dollar. However, in February the government agreed to give Mr. Lieto's money back in full.

Mr. Lieto's lawyer, Mr. Kessler, had filed a deposition from a vault manager who had watched Mr. Lieto's two still-sealed bags being loaded onto the FBI's truck. If the bags were opened and commingled, it was done by authorities, a Lieto court filing argued.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903480904576512253265073870.html




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551035 - 07/18/12 06:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

wow... obfuscation, totally wasnt expecting that... again

and again

and again

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551044 - 07/18/12 06:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Civil judicial forfeiture is an in rem (against the property) action brought in court against the property. The property is the defendant and no criminal charge against the owner is necessary.

Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement.
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/07federalforfeiture/index.htm




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551053 - 07/18/12 06:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

OMG...this is like a total hodgepodge of unrelated doctrines and nonsense...

Seriously, you're so lost.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551059 - 07/18/12 06:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Another source saying similar things as naturalnews:

Quote:


New Obama Executive Order Seizes U.S. Infrastructure and Citizens for Military Preparedness
Dees Illustration
Brandon Turbeville
Activist Post

In a stunning move, on March 16, 2012, Barack Obama signed an Executive Order stating that the President and his specifically designated Secretaries now have the authority to commandeer all domestic U.S. resources including food and water. The EO also states that the President and his Secretaries have the authority to seize all transportation, energy, and infrastructure inside the United States as well as forcibly induct/draft American citizens into the military. The EO also contains a vague reference in regards to harnessing American citizens to fulfill “labor requirements” for the purposes of national defense.

Not only that, but the authority claimed inside the EO does not only apply to National Emergencies and times of war. It also applies in peacetime.

The National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order exploits the “authority” granted to the President in the Defense Production Act of 1950 in order to assert that virtually every means of human survival is now available for confiscation and control by the President via his and his Secretaries’ whim.

The unconstitutionality of the overwhelming majority of Executive Orders is well established, as well as the illegality of denying citizens their basic Constitutional and human rights, even in the event of a legitimate national emergency. Likewise, it should also be pointed out that, like Obama’s recent Libyan adventure and the foregone conclusion of a Syrian intervention, there is no mention of Congress beyond a minor role of keeping the allegedly co-equal branch of government informed on contextually meaningless developments.





Maybe I am being an idiot and not understanding, but I don't think you guys are helping much to elucidate my purported idiocy.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551073 - 07/18/12 06:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wouldn't Administrative forfeiture + Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness = No recompensation and no trial for it?

I honestly think it is beside the point if you are being recompensated or not, but w/e.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551114 - 07/18/12 07:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

again you're obfuscating, and you're again misleading people

this is why no one wants to read retarded conspiracy threads, because the
conspiracy theorists cant back their claims, instead they jump all over the
place trying to cite shit improperly in order to prove their point


Criminal forfeiture is an action brought as a part of the criminal prosecution of a defendant. It is an in personam (against the person) action and requires that the government indict (charge) the property used or derived from the crime along with the defendant. If the jury finds the property forfeitable, the court issues an order of forfeiture.

For forfeitures pursuant to the Controlled Substances Act (CSA), Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO), as well as money laundering and obscenity statutes, there is an ancillary hearing for third parties to assert their interest in the property. Once the interests of third parties are addressed, the court issues a final forfeiture order.


and this one is that scary one isnt it


Civil judicial forfeiture is an in rem (against the property) action brought in court against the property. The property is the defendant and no criminal charge against the owner is necessary.

Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in the Tariff Act of 1930, 19 U.S.C. § 1607. Property that can be administratively forfeited is: merchandise the importation of which is prohibited; a conveyance used to import, transport, or store a controlled substance; a monetary instrument; or other property that does not exceed $500,000 in value.

Source: A Guide to Equitable Sharing of Federally Forfeited Property for State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, U.S. Department of Justice, March 1994.

and all from the same link you provided
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/07federalforfeiture/index.htm


once more, this has fuckall to do with this discussion

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551116 - 07/18/12 07:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

1.  The federal and state government have always been able to seize property for public use.
2.  just compensation is always required when they do.
3.  The executive order delegates the authority to create regulations requiring companies to contract with the government and prioritize those contracts if a need arises.
4.  The power of the government to do this has existed for many years...this order does not create a new power.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551121 - 07/18/12 07:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Wouldn't Administrative forfeiture + Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness = No recompensation and no trial for it?

I honestly think it is beside the point if you are being recompensated or not, but w/e.





you've got no clue what you're talking about

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16551173 - 07/18/12 07:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No...your reading comprehension is horrid...

Nowhere in that order does it say that the government can simply take what they need...




:yarly:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: unam sanctum]
    #16551312 - 07/18/12 07:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Why hasn't this been moved to the :tinfoil: forum yet?  Anybody who sources Natural News needs a little natural ass kicking to knock some sense into them.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16551359 - 07/18/12 07:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Here is what the huffington post says about it:

Quote:


Last Friday, March 16, President Barack Obama may have quietly placed the United States on a war preparedness footing, perhaps in anticipation of an outbreak of war between Israel, the West, and Iran. A newly-propounded Executive Order, titled "National Defense Resources Preparedness," renews and updates the president's power to take control of all civil energy supplies, including oil and natural gas, control and restrict all civil transportation, which is almost 97 percent dependent upon oil; and even provides the option to re-enable a draft in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country, according to a simple reading of the text. The Executive Order was published on the White House website.

The timing of the Order -- with little fanfare -- could not be explained. Opinions among the very first bloggers on the purpose of the unexpected Executive Order run the gamut from the confused to the absurd. None focus on the obvious sudden need for such a pronouncement: oil and its potential for imminent interruption.

If Iran was struck by Israel or the West, or if Iran thought it might be struck, the Tehran regime has promised it would block the Strait of Hormuz, which would obstruct some 40 percent of the world's seaborne oil, some twenty percent of the global supply, and about 20 percent of America's daily needs. Moreover, Tehran has promised military retaliation against any nation it feels has harmed it. The United States is at the top of the list.

Blocking the Strait of Hormuz would create an international and economic calamity of unprecedented severity. Here are the crude realities. America uses approximately 19 to 20 million barrels of oil per day, almost half of which is imported. If we lose just 1 million barrels per day, or suffer the type of damage sustained from Hurricane Katrina, our government will open the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), which offers a mere six- to eight-week supply of unrefined crude oil. If we lose 1.5 million barrels per day, or approximately 7.5 percent, we will ask our allies in the 28-member International Energy Agency to open their SPRs and otherwise assist. If we lose 2 million barrels per day, or 10 percent, for a protracted period, government crisis monitors say the chaos will be so catastrophic, they cannot even model it. One government oil crisis source recently told me: "We cannot put a price tag on it. If it happens, just cash in your 401(k)."

Since 2007, when the prospect of Iran blocking the Strait of Hormuz became a daily threat enunciated by Iran, our local, state, and federal governments at all levels have been criticized for having no specific plan in the event an oil interruption occurred. The National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order appears to be the first step toward developing a potentially vast, far-sweeping plan that could reach into every garage and grocery store shelf. Government experts who watch the day-to-day ebb and flow of oil stocks were surprised at the sudden move. One quipped, "If this is true, it would be such a departure in policy, I can scarcely believe it."

The March 16 Executive Order is based on the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and Section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, and reads as a near-verbatim restatement of President Bill Clinton's 1994 Executive Order 12919, and several other orders of prior presidents. No specific plan was every outlined based any of the enabling Executive Orders.

Obama's Order sets forth as its rationale that "the United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency." It goes on in Section 103 C to authorize the President, "in the event of a potential threat to the security of the United States, to take actions necessary to ensure the availability of adequate resources and production capability, including services and critical technology, for national defense requirements." The task of advising is assigned, in Section 104 to "the National Security Council and Homeland Security Council, in conjunction with the National Economic Council," which "shall make recommendations to the President on the use of authorities under the Act."

Those bodies will relegate their tasks to various secretaries of the Cabinet, specifically, the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources; the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy; the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources; the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation; the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials. Each of these Secretaries, according to Section 201, entitled, "Priorities and Allocations Authorities," will be empowered, subject to the President and his advisers, to "analyze potential effects of national emergencies on actual production capability, taking into account the entire production system, including shortages of resources, and develop recommended preparedness measures to strengthen capabilities for production increases in national emergencies." Their recommendations can, if need be, "control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market."

In subsection D, the Order states, "If agreement cannot be reached between two such Secretaries, then the issue shall be referred to the President through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism." Hence, any arguments between Cabinet members is anticipated and dealt with.

The President, under the Order, will be empowered to order the "military use of civil transportation." If implemented, the Secretary of Energy could rule "with respect to energy production and construction, distribution and use, and directly related activities," in order to achieve "civil defense and continuity of Government."

Sec. 203 is entitled "Maximizing Domestic Energy Supplies." It delegates to the Secretary of Energy "the authority to make findings that materials (including equipment), services, and facilities are critical and essential."

Sec. 204 is entitled "Chemical and Biological Warfare." It ambiguously delegates "the authority of the President ... to the Secretary of Defense."

Part III of the Executive Order empowers the President and his advisers to effect "the expansion of productive capacity and supply." This includes, "Loan Guarantees to reduce current or projected shortfalls of resources, critical technology items, or materials essential for the national defense." Any Federal Reserve Bank is directed to "assist the agency in serving as fiscal agent."

Section 303 allows the government to "enable rapid transition of emerging technologies," that is, demand that certain needed technologies now kept out of the market be accelerated into the market. This could include alternative fuel vehicles which would relieve the approximate 67 percent of every oil barrel that goes to transportation. The same section allows the National Defense Stockpile to take control of strategic materials "if such transfers are in the public interest." Indeed, under Section 306, entitled "Strategic and Critical Materials," the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense as the National Defense Stockpile Manager, are each delegated the authority of the President ... to encourage the exploration, development, and mining of strategic and critical materials and other materials." This includes oil and natural gas. In Section 307, entitled "Substitutes," the national security team is empowered to "make provision for the development of substitutes for strategic and critical materials, critical components, critical technology items, and other resources to aid the national defense." The term "Substitutes" refers to alternative and synthetic fuels, from algae to hydrogen -- many of which are now in advance development.

In the event of an emergency, the Order would empower, "the head of each agency engaged in procurement for the national defense" to "procure and install additional equipment, facilities, processes, or improvements to plants, factories, and other industrial facilities owned by the Federal Government and to procure and install Government-owned equipment in plants, factories, or other industrial facilities owned by private persons."

Stockpiling or prioritizing will not require a state of war. In Section 310 entitled, "Critical Items," the government is empowered "to take appropriate action to ensure that critical components, critical technology items, essential materials, and industrial resources are available from reliable sources when needed to meet defense requirements during peacetime, graduated mobilization, and national emergency. Appropriate action may include restricting contract solicitations to reliable sources, restricting contract solicitations to domestic sources (pursuant to statutory authority), stockpiling critical components, and developing substitutes for critical components or critical technology items."

Part VI is entitled "Labor Requirements," and directs the Secretary of Labor "to collect and maintain data necessary to make a continuing appraisal of the Nation's workforce needs for purposes of national defense. In subsection 2, the Order brings up the non-dormant Draft. It mandates that the Secretary of Labor "upon request by the Director of Selective Service, and in coordination with the Secretary of Defense, assist the Director of Selective Service in development of policies regulating the induction and deferment of persons for duty in the armed services." The Order adds that the Secretary "upon request from the head of an agency with authority under this order, consult with that agency with respect ... to making the exercise of priority and allocations functions consistent with effective utilization and distribution of labor." It goes on to empower "the head of an agency with authority under this order [to] formulate plans, programs, and policies for meeting the labor requirements of actions to be taken for national defense purposes; and estimate training needs to help address national defense requirements and promote necessary and appropriate training programs."

In defining the civil transportation, the Order covers any possible gasoline rationing and vehicle restriction for vehicles that guzzle too much gasoline. The Order specifies "Civil transportation includes movement of persons and property by all modes of transportation in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce within the United States, its territories and possessions, and the District of Columbia, and related public storage and warehousing, ports, services, equipment and facilities. It adds, "Civil transportation" also shall include direction, control, and coordination of civil transportation capacity regardless of ownership" other than "petroleum and gas pipelines, and coal slurry pipelines used only to supply energy production facilities directly." Gasoline rationing and vehicle restriction for poor mileage cars and trucks is a concept already enshrined in the protocols of the Paris-based International Energy Agency. The United States is a member and has signed the treaty that covers such potential restrictions in the event of an oil interruption.

To avoid any doubt, the Order covers "all forms of energy including petroleum, gas (both natural and manufactured), electricity, solid fuels (including all forms of coal, coke, coal chemicals, coal liquification, and coal gasification), solar, wind, other types of renewable energy, atomic energy, and the production, conservation, use, control, and distribution (including pipelines) of all of these forms of energy."

Because any oil interruption would have an immediate impact on the distribution of food, the Order also covers "the production or preparation for market use of food resources." The Order asserts that "food resources" means all commodities and products ... capable of being ingested by either human beings or animals."

The Order explains that "'Special priorities assistance' means action by resource departments to assist with expediting deliveries, placing rated orders, locating suppliers, resolving production or delivery conflicts between various rated orders, addressing problems that arise in the fulfillment of a rated order or other action authorized by a delegated agency, and determining the validity of rated orders." In other words, the control of food and strategic materials, including oil, will be under federal purview, should an emergency occur and the Order invoked.

At press time, administration sources could not be reached to elaborate on the timing of what many see as a year's overdue preparation for an oil interruption. Such an interruption and its disastrous consequence have been threatened for years. In short, for many years there has been no plan. But now apparently, the legal authority to organize a specific plan has been renewed and updated in crystal clarity.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/obama-national-defense-resources-preparedness_b_1359715.html




Edited by teknix (07/18/12 08:17 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551399 - 07/18/12 08:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No where in the article does it say that the president can just jack people's shit.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: All We Perceive]
    #16551417 - 07/18/12 08:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Lol, HuffPo blogs?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16551447 - 07/18/12 08:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
1.  The federal and state government have always been able to seize property for public use.
2.  just compensation is always required when they do.
3.  The executive order delegates the authority to create regulations requiring companies to contract with the government and prioritize those contracts if a need arises.
4.  The power of the government to do this has existed for many years...this order does not create a new power.




Yeah thanks, I saw that this has existed for quite a while. I can understand all but number 3.

"3.  The executive order delegates the authority to create regulations requiring companies to contract with the government and prioritize those contracts if a need arises."

How do you get that?

The actual order says they can take whatever resources they need.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551494 - 07/18/12 08:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They say it here, along with saying they can draft you to fight for them.

Quote:


The same section allows the National Defense Stockpile to take control of strategic materials "if such transfers are in the public interest." Indeed, under Section 306, entitled "Strategic and Critical Materials," the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense as the National Defense Stockpile Manager, are each delegated the authority of the President ... to encourage the exploration, development, and mining of strategic and critical materials and other materials." This includes oil and natural gas. In Section 307, entitled "Substitutes," the national security team is empowered to "make provision for the development of substitutes for strategic and critical materials, critical components, critical technology items, and other resources to aid the national defense." The term "Substitutes" refers to alternative and synthetic fuels, from algae to hydrogen -- many of which are now in advance development.

In the event of an emergency, the Order would empower, "the head of each agency engaged in procurement for the national defense" to "procure and install additional equipment, facilities, processes, or improvements to plants, factories, and other industrial facilities owned by the Federal Government and to procure and install Government-owned equipment in plants, factories, or other industrial facilities owned by private persons."

Stockpiling or prioritizing will not require a state of war. In Section 310 entitled, "Critical Items," the government is empowered "to take appropriate action to ensure that critical components, critical technology items, essential materials, and industrial resources are available from reliable sources when needed to meet defense requirements during peacetime, graduated mobilization, and national emergency. Appropriate action may include restricting contract solicitations to reliable sources, restricting contract solicitations to domestic sources (pursuant to statutory authority), stockpiling critical components, and developing substitutes for critical components or critical technology items."

Part VI is entitled "Labor Requirements," and directs the Secretary of Labor "to collect and maintain data necessary to make a continuing appraisal of the Nation's workforce needs for purposes of national defense. In subsection 2, the Order brings up the non-dormant Draft. It mandates that the Secretary of Labor "upon request by the Director of Selective Service, and in coordination with the Secretary of Defense, assist the Director of Selective Service in development of policies regulating the induction and deferment of persons for duty in the armed services." The Order adds that the Secretary "upon request from the head of an agency with authority under this order, consult with that agency with respect ... to making the exercise of priority and allocations functions consistent with effective utilization and distribution of labor." It goes on to empower "the head of an agency with authority under this order [to] formulate plans, programs, and policies for meeting the labor requirements of actions to be taken for national defense purposes; and estimate training needs to help address national defense requirements and promote necessary and appropriate training programs."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/obama-national-defense-resources-preparedness_b_1359715.html




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551504 - 07/18/12 08:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They have always been able to draft you.  Didn't you join the selective service when you turned 18?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: All We Perceive]
    #16551531 - 07/18/12 08:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Who joins the Selective Service :tinfoil:?

**checks the registration site through Tor**


Shit

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551542 - 07/18/12 08:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

My benevolent advice is still up for grabs. I've always thought it was kind of pointless to argue what laws mean, since our leaders don't really care about laws. Well selectively. In my perception, anyway. I hope you know I wasn't trying to be an ass, either. I really do feel it is about that time just prepare for whatever you think is coming, enjoy the here and now and wait. I haven't seen a person change their mind about something like this one way or the other in what feels like ages. Plus I think a lot of what we fear can't be proven as 100% definitely going to happen, only theories, with varying extents of merits. It's just exhausting to argue anymore, especially when I realize we just gotta wait it out, anyway.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551551 - 07/18/12 08:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't fear for me, I don't have anything to lose :shrug:

I'm only trying to figure it out really, and what better place then here with you critics? :P

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551557 - 07/18/12 08:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
They say it here, along with saying they can draft you to fight for them.






http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Wallflower]
    #16551566 - 07/18/12 08:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wallflower said:
My benevolent advice is still up for grabs. I've always thought it was kind of pointless to argue what laws mean, since our leaders don't really care about laws. Well selectively.





politicians create the laws that we live by, when we dont agree with those laws we have means of repealing them

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551580 - 07/18/12 08:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Wallflower said:
My benevolent advice is still up for grabs. I've always thought it was kind of pointless to argue what laws mean, since our leaders don't really care about laws. Well selectively.





politicians create the laws that we live by, when we dont agree with those laws we have means of repealing them




I've often wondered what would happen if we had a national referendum mechanism.

We'd probably have gone to full nuclear agression some time during the cold war, but if not we'd most likely have legal pot by now. :shrug:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551592 - 07/18/12 08:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Wallflower said:
My benevolent advice is still up for grabs. I've always thought it was kind of pointless to argue what laws mean, since our leaders don't really care about laws. Well selectively.





politicians create the laws that we live by, when we dont agree with those laws we have means of repealing them




I meant that our leaders don't follow their own laws, heh.

I'm not hating on anybody. My beliefs are way more out there than the OP's. But eventually after countless long and charged arguments like this, I realized that nobody could prove I was wrong, but I also couldn't prove I was right. It reached the point where arguing over theories that couldn't be proved true or false was just draining and pointless for everyone.

With some things I just straight up have no clue. I was impressed by your stuff about 9-11. It added a lot of balance to all of the countering side's arguments I'd heard and read over the years. With stuff about the past it's a lot easier.

But when guessing about what people are going to do in the future, like our government or anyone, really, in the end it's like nothing can be proven technically, but people get really riled up and stressed out. Idunno.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: All We Perceive]
    #16551608 - 07/18/12 08:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

All We Perceive said:
They have always been able to draft you.  Didn't you join the selective service when you turned 18?




Yep, this is what it says tho:

Quote:


In subsection 2, the Order brings up the non-dormant Draft. It mandates that the Secretary of Labor "upon request by the Director of Selective Service, and in coordination with the Secretary of Defense, assist the Director of Selective Service in development of policies regulating the induction and deferment of persons for duty in the armed services."





So I'm not really sure what the point is, other then beginning the mobilization of a draft? (IE; Preparing for one?)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551630 - 07/18/12 08:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
this does not say what you claim it does, I have no contracts with the
government, the government can not do shit with what I produce or with
my property





I know people personally that have been railroaded by the state already. If your property is in a location that the city or state wants to use, you're shit out of luck. I saw a guy lose an auto-shop in my home town because it was were the city wanted to expand a parking lot for an expo.

It doesn't matter how much money his business was making or how great a spot it was, they only payed what they want to pay, which is the land property value. Now there is a parking lot there, he wasn't affiliated with the government.





and now here you are once again trying to play connect the dots when there
are no dots to connect, eminent domain is a different critter with no
relationship to this executive order and I too have seen people who've lost
property for roadway construction and other uses and they were compensated
most were well over fair market value




If Eminent Domain has no relation then why would they have to compensate anything under the resource allocation?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551635 - 07/18/12 08:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

NizzyJones said:
I've often wondered what would happen if we had a national referendum mechanism.




we do. it's called revolution

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551644 - 07/18/12 08:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
If Eminent Domain has no relation then why would they have to compensate anything under the resource allocation?





once more, the bill of rights

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551659 - 07/18/12 08:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yeah, and once more I will refer you to this from another source:

Quote:


One of the most controversial Supreme Court rulings of the past year was the decision in Kelo v. New London(2005.) The Court held that that the phrase “public use” from the Fifth Amendment can be interpreted as “public benefit.” Therefore, the government can take private property from an individual in order to turn it over to a private developer if the taking will result in “economic development” for the region
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/lessons-plans/landmark-cases-and-the-constitution/kelo-v-new-london-2005/





Bill of Rights doesn't have final say, the supreme court does.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551665 - 07/18/12 08:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If Eminent Domain has no relation then why would they have to compensate anything under the resource allocation?




The 5th Amend. states "No person shall ...  be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

The Constitution - It works, biatches.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551671 - 07/18/12 08:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Oh yeah, and once more I will refer you to this from another source:

Quote:


One of the most controversial Supreme Court rulings of the past year was the decision in Kelo v. New London(2005.) The Court held that that the phrase “public use” from the Fifth Amendment can be interpreted as “public benefit.” Therefore, the government can take private property from an individual in order to turn it over to a private developer if the taking will result in “economic development” for the region
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/lessons-plans/landmark-cases-and-the-constitution/kelo-v-new-london-2005/





Bill of Rights doesn't have final say, the supreme court does.





once again

you're wrong and you have no idea what you're talking about, this has no bearing on the topic in any way

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551708 - 07/18/12 09:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It is about the same "Right" you are talking about. It doesn't show that people won't be compensated, you're right about that.

It does show that the "Bill of Rights" is not THE authority though. And they can take your shit regardless if you want them too or not.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551713 - 07/18/12 09:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Oh yeah, and once more I will refer you to this from another source:

Quote:


One of the most controversial Supreme Court rulings of the past year was the decision in Kelo v. New London(2005.) The Court held that that the phrase “public use” from the Fifth Amendment can be interpreted as “public benefit.” Therefore, the government can take private property from an individual in order to turn it over to a private developer if the taking will result in “economic development” for the region
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/lessons-plans/landmark-cases-and-the-constitution/kelo-v-new-london-2005/





Bill of Rights doesn't have final say, the supreme court does.




Yeah, that's an unpopular decision but, ostensibly, it doesn't actually make new law, just uphold previous Courts' interpretation of "public use" to mean more or less anything the Legislative branch says it is, as long as it's otherwise constitutional (no bills of attainder, etc.)


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551766 - 07/18/12 09:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, the judicial branch can interpret things how they want, even if it was not how it was intended. I already pointed out one loop-hole in the executive order, and I'm sure there are more loopholes such as forfeiture that could be used to not compensate you such as this:

"Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in the Tariff Act of 1930, 19 U.S.C. § 1607. Property that can be administratively forfeited is: merchandise the importation of which is prohibited; a conveyance used to import, transport, or store a controlled substance; a monetary instrument; or other property that does not exceed $500,000 in value."
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/07federalforfeiture/index.htm

Now let me reduce this for you.

Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement. Property that can be administratively forfeited is: property that does not exceed $500,000 in value.

The rest is really wasted space isn't it?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551809 - 07/18/12 09:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.





Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.



There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551815 - 07/18/12 09:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
It is about the same "Right" you are talking about. It doesn't show that people won't be compensated, you're right about that.

It does show that the "Bill of Rights" is not THE authority though. And they can take your shit regardless if you want them too or not.





are you saying it took away the 5th amendment?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551823 - 07/18/12 09:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, I'm saying the interpreted how they wanted, rather then how it was written.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551830 - 07/18/12 09:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah, the judicial branch can interpret things how they want, even if it was not how it was intended.




How else do you propose we determine "what was intended".

:fearandloathing:

Edit: and how are you defining "public use" so that it's doesn't mean "the use the representatives of the public choose". Keep in mind this is also the basis of laws allowing us to condemn unsafe buildings.

Edited by NizzyJones (07/18/12 09:29 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551839 - 07/18/12 09:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

By defining the fucking words?

In what language does public use = public benefit? Who decides if it is beneficial to the public? It just opens a can of worms.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551847 - 07/18/12 09:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.





Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.

There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.




Do you agree this is what is being said here pris?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551850 - 07/18/12 09:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'll copy pasta my edit so the conversation makes sense:


And how are we defining "public use" so that it doesn't mean "the use the representatives of the public choose"? Keep in mind this is also the basis of laws allowing us to condemn unsafe buildings.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551857 - 07/18/12 09:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Who cares if someone wants to live in an unsafe building? It's probably better then living in no building.

Public use =/= public benefit. Anything can be said to be beneficial to the public, private enterprises taken out some dudes farm for instance.

Who is getting the most benefit? The private enterprise is.

Mercury laden vaccinations are said to benefit the public, but it has been linked to autism and it is still continually pushed onto young children by profiteering pharmacies for the "children's benefit".

Edited by teknix (07/18/12 09:36 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551872 - 07/18/12 09:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
By defining the fucking words?




Not that you're very good at that yourself
I agree with your sentiment as misplaced and unwarranted as it is

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551885 - 07/18/12 09:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
No, I'm saying the interpreted how they wanted, rather then how it was written.





how about not interpreting it the way you want as opposed to how it's written

the ruling simply defines what qualifies as public use

once more, it has nothing to do with this topic, you're blurring the issues
and trying to connect dots on different pages to make a picture

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551899 - 07/18/12 09:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, it removes use and replaces it with benefit, I have 2 citations saying the same thing, you haven't presented any to the contrary. I think it has a lot to do with it when are are appealing to the bill of rights.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551902 - 07/18/12 09:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Who cares if someone wants to live in an unsafe building? It's probably better then living in no building.




if I'm the property owner, I care because I dont want some vagrant staying
in my buildings, it a liability for me


Quote:

Mercury laden vaccinations are said to benefit the public, but it has been linked to autism and it is still continually pushed onto young children by profiteering pharmacies for the "children's benefit".





I cannot facepalm enough to cover this one

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551904 - 07/18/12 09:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Actually Sheeple is a Direct Translation for anyone who has Voted Republican!!!


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16551909 - 07/18/12 09:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Who cares if someone wants to live in an unsafe building? It's probably better then living in no building.




if I'm the property owner, I care because I dont want some vagrant staying
in my buildings, it a liability for me


Quote:

Mercury laden vaccinations are said to benefit the public, but it has been linked to autism and it is still continually pushed onto young children by profiteering pharmacies for the "children's benefit".





I cannot facepalm enough to cover this one




Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you and/or pay you for it too?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551920 - 07/18/12 09:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Who cares if someone wants to live in an unsafe building? It's probably better then living in no building.

Public use =/= public benefit. Anything can be said to be beneficial to the public, private enterprises taken out some dudes farm for instance.

Who is getting the most benefit? The private enterprise is.





Yes, it can. But my point is that this is being done not by the Judicial branch but by the Legislative if you're going to rail against someone rail against the legislature that passed it, not the court that said they had the power to do it.

Quote:

Mercury laden vaccinations are said to benefit the public, but it has been linked to autism and it is still continually pushed onto young children by profiteering pharmacies for the "children's benefit".




:facepalm: 1) You're being exposed to Mercury all the time, it's in tuna, for Chris's sake. 2) The level of Mercury in vaccines is significantly less than the amount generally recognized as safe. 3) The rise in autism spectrum diagnoses most likely was because we know more about autism than we used to, not because there's suddenly more of it about. 4) There are Mercury-free vaccines available, if you eat tuna everyday or made your crack pipe out of a 1950s thermometer or something.
5) :nojustno:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Its Pat]
    #16551928 - 07/18/12 09:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Its Pat said:
Actually Sheeple is a Direct Translation for anyone who has Voted Republican!!!




And anyone who's democratic is just as sheeple as the republicans.  The only way a true change to this country is going to happen is through a third delegated party.  This won't happen though, because it would mean drastic change in the house, senate and every government office in the USA.

Single-sided views are poop.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551929 - 07/18/12 09:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I'm a grown man and my body can handle traces of mercury.

Bad analogy.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551938 - 07/18/12 09:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Yes, I'm a grown man and my body can handle traces of mercury.

Bad analogy.




I made no such analogy. Even if I had it would in no way be necessary to the argument.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16551940 - 07/18/12 09:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Stuff like this makes me lose hope.
We all know damn well that all us citizens that are not in military or government positions would be killed with the kind of technology the government has.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16551949 - 07/18/12 09:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:

Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you?





once more you show you have no idea what you're talking about


regardless, you just keep on believing your silly stuff from the nutters  news

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Maverick]
    #16551963 - 07/18/12 09:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Quote:

Its Pat said:
Actually Sheeple is a Direct Translation for anyone who has Voted Republican!!!




And anyone who's democratic is just as sheeple as the republicans.  The only way a true change to this country is going to happen is through a third delegated party.  This won't happen though, because it would mean drastic change in the house, senate and every government office in the USA.

Single-sided views are poop.




Nope, they have another name they are called.

SPECIFICALLY they are Republican.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Its Pat]
    #16551976 - 07/18/12 10:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You're a democrat aren't ya?

See, I'm neither democratic or republican, yet I'm still politically active.  What I see are a bunch of dumbfucks screaming back and forth recently though, but in reality, whether this last president was mccain or obama, NEITHER would have turned this economy around.  It's sad to see that people are blind to that.  Republicans are blind by saying "if we had a republican president" democrats are blind because they're just furious about how republicans feel.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Its Pat]
    #16551979 - 07/18/12 10:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You're just Bill O'Reilly for the other side. Lame.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Maverick]
    #16551994 - 07/18/12 10:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
You're a democrat aren't ya?

See, I'm neither democratic or republican, yet I'm still politically active.  What I see are a bunch of dumbfucks screaming back and forth recently though, but in reality, whether this last president was mccain or obama, NEITHER would have turned this economy around.  It's sad to see that people are blind to that.  Republicans are blind by saying "if we had a republican president" democrats are blind because they're just furious about how republicans feel.




Well, if McCain were President they might have stopped being dicks just to be dicks. But given how... uncooperative with the House leadership some of the Tea Partiers have been they might still have ended up deadlocked.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16552010 - 07/18/12 10:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The teapartiers really got under my skin...  Dunno how else to put it. :shrug:

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Maverick]
    #16552057 - 07/18/12 10:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Have you seen The Newsroom yet? It's a new Aaron Sorkin series on HBO in the "Why do both sides suck at politics so much?" ranting vein (though, he gives a lot of time to the Tea Party, since he's writing it to take place during the run up to the midterms and the next session of congress). Pretty decent show.

--We're taking our country back! --Okay, just to be clear, is your country my country too?


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Edited by NizzyJones (07/18/12 10:14 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16552079 - 07/18/12 10:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Allow me to explain the bad analogy or comparison if you will:

Quote:

Mercury laden vaccinations are said to benefit the public, but it has been linked to autism and it is still continually pushed onto young children by profiteering pharmacies for the "children's benefit".




Here the vaccines and mercury are in reference to children.

Then you proceed to compare the amount of mercury I intake as if it is any point whatsoever.

Quote:

NizzyJones said:
:facepalm: 1) You're being exposed to Mercury all the time, it's in tuna, for Chris's sake. 2) The level of Mercury in vaccines is significantly less than the amount generally recognized as safe. 3) The rise in autism spectrum diagnoses most likely was because we know more about autism than we used to, not because there's suddenly more of it about. 4) There are Mercury-free vaccines available, if you eat tuna everyday or made your crack pipe out of a 1950s thermometer or something.
5) :nojustno:



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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552090 - 07/18/12 10:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:

Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you?





once more you show you have no idea what you're talking about


regardless, you just keep on believing your silly stuff from the nutters  news




Huffington Post is nutter news? That is news to me.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552100 - 07/18/12 10:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Why the hell isn't this in conspiracies yet?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552105 - 07/18/12 10:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Those aren't mutually exclusive points. Doses of toxins are measured in proportion to body mass, they're aware when manufacturing the vaccine that it is recommended for certain age groups, which you can reasonably assume to have a body mass within a given range. This is not brain surgery.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16552108 - 07/18/12 10:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Obviously, so why make such a bad analogy?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16552110 - 07/18/12 10:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Teknix, I wouldn't worry about vaccinations so much.  We all turned out fine, and I've had vaccinations as a child... Media overinflates the scare.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: gzuf]
    #16552115 - 07/18/12 10:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

gzuf said:
You're just Bill O'Reilly for the other side. Lame.





obama needs his dick sucked too

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552122 - 07/18/12 10:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:

Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you?





once more you show you have no idea what you're talking about


regardless, you just keep on believing your silly stuff from the nutters  news




Huffington Post is nutter news? That is news to me.





you;ve forgotten your original post/source already?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Maverick]
    #16552123 - 07/18/12 10:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Teknix, I wouldn't worry about vaccinations so much.  We all turned out fine, and I've had vaccinations as a child... Media overinflates the scare.




Not we all, my cousin has Autism from it, he was fine before they injected him with 4 vaccines at the same time.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552134 - 07/18/12 10:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:lolsy:


--------------------
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I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552138 - 07/18/12 10:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:

Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you?





once more you show you have no idea what you're talking about


regardless, you just keep on believing your silly stuff from the nutters  news




Huffington Post is nutter news? That is news to me.





you;ve forgotten your original post/source already?




I told you a long time ago pris, the source is the order, the Natural News was beside the point, and I presented another more reputable source saying similar things that disagree with your lawyer.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552139 - 07/18/12 10:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:

Then sell it, or demolish it. If you bought a big ass building and can't maintain it, the taxpayers should pay for it to be taken care of for you?





once more you show you have no idea what you're talking about


regardless, you just keep on believing your silly stuff from the nutters  news




Huffington Post is nutter news? That is news to me.



I'm as liberal as they come and I don't trust huffpost for shit.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552165 - 07/18/12 10:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Teknix, I wouldn't worry about vaccinations so much.  We all turned out fine, and I've had vaccinations as a child... Media overinflates the scare.




Not we all, my cousin has Autism from it, he was fine before they injected him with 4 vaccines at the same time.




Since you seem unclear on what Autism is: Autism is a broad spectrum of developmental disorders. Depending on the severity symptoms, they can often be interpreted as normal childish behavior and they don't become apparent overnight, whenever you start noticing symptoms of autism they've been developing for a long while.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552191 - 07/18/12 10:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Teknix, I wouldn't worry about vaccinations so much.  We all turned out fine, and I've had vaccinations as a child... Media overinflates the scare.




Not we all, my cousin has Autism from it, he was fine before they injected him with 4 vaccines at the same time.




Yeah, I'm sure it's from his "vaccinations" and not from eating too much fish, being in an environment that has mercury in it already, or many of the thousands of other ways he could get mercury poisoning.

There's a chance his autism is from genetics anyway.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552192 - 07/18/12 10:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I told you a long time ago pris, the source is the order, the Natural News was beside the point, and I presented another more reputable source saying similar things that disagree with your lawyer.





the natural news is your source because you're basing it off their claims, not what the EO says

you've proven that you dont understand what it says throughout this thread

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552220 - 07/18/12 10:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There I fixed the OP. My bad for taking so long.

Quote:



The same section allows the National Defense Stockpile to take control of strategic materials "if such transfers are in the public interest." Indeed, under Section 306, entitled "Strategic and Critical Materials," the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense as the National Defense Stockpile Manager, are each delegated the authority of the President ... to encourage the exploration, development, and mining of strategic and critical materials and other materials." This includes oil and natural gas. In Section 307, entitled "Substitutes," the national security team is empowered to "make provision for the development of substitutes for strategic and critical materials, critical components, critical technology items, and other resources to aid the national defense." The term "Substitutes" refers to alternative and synthetic fuels, from algae to hydrogen -- many of which are now in advance development.

In the event of an emergency, the Order would empower, "the head of each agency engaged in procurement for the national defense" to "procure and install additional equipment, facilities, processes, or improvements to plants, factories, and other industrial facilities owned by the Federal Government and to procure and install Government-owned equipment in plants, factories, or other industrial facilities owned by private persons."

Stockpiling or prioritizing will not require a state of war. In Section 310 entitled, "Critical Items," the government is empowered "to take appropriate action to ensure that critical components, critical technology items, essential materials, and industrial resources are available from reliable sources when needed to meet defense requirements during peacetime, graduated mobilization, and national emergency. Appropriate action may include restricting contract solicitations to reliable sources, restricting contract solicitations to domestic sources (pursuant to statutory authority), stockpiling critical components, and developing substitutes for critical components or critical technology items."

Part VI is entitled "Labor Requirements," and directs the Secretary of Labor "to collect and maintain data necessary to make a continuing appraisal of the Nation's workforce needs for purposes of national defense. In subsection 2, the Order brings up the non-dormant Draft. It mandates that the Secretary of Labor "upon request by the Director of Selective Service, and in coordination with the Secretary of Defense, assist the Director of Selective Service in development of policies regulating the induction and deferment of persons for duty in the armed services." The Order adds that the Secretary "upon request from the head of an agency with authority under this order, consult with that agency with respect ... to making the exercise of priority and allocations functions consistent with effective utilization and distribution of labor." It goes on to empower "the head of an agency with authority under this order [to] formulate plans, programs, and policies for meeting the labor requirements of actions to be taken for national defense purposes; and estimate training needs to help address national defense requirements and promote necessary and appropriate training programs."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/obama-national-defense-resources-preparedness_b_1359715.html




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552232 - 07/18/12 10:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
There I fixed the OP. My bad for taking so long.





you've done what you;ve been doing throughout the thread, changing things
to try and make it fit with that the nutter news told you

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: NizzyJones]
    #16552255 - 07/18/12 10:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I'm as liberal as they come and I don't trust huffpost for shit.




Yup.  I read a lot of sources, and I would never touch a HuffPo blog for a source of good information.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552256 - 07/18/12 10:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.





Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.

There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.




Do you agree this is what is being said here pris?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552324 - 07/18/12 10:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Here is one from The Examiner:

Quote:


On March 16th, President Obama signed a new Executive Order which expands upon a prior order issued in 1950 for Disaster Preparedness, and gives the office of the President complete control over all the resources in the United States in times of war or emergency.

The National Defense Resources Preparedness order gives the Executive Branch the power to control and allocate energy, production, transportation, food, and even water resources by decree under the auspices of national defense and national security. The order is not limited to wartime implementation, as one of the order's functions includes the command and control of resources in peacetime determinations.

http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pTg79AWw




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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: 4-AcO-MET]
    #16552358 - 07/18/12 11:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

4-AcO-MET said:
Quote:

I'm as liberal as they come and I don't trust huffpost for shit.




Yup.  I read a lot of sources, and I would never touch a HuffPo blog for a source of good information.




Tabloid hysterics. It's the same reason why I place Maddow and Olbermann in the same category as Maher, and furthermore all of the above in the same category as Hannity and Limbaugh. They are all entertaining from time to time, but if you don't form a picture of the world based upon your own experiences and needs, you get threads like this.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552365 - 07/18/12 11:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



It isn't denied here.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552376 - 07/18/12 11:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If you're so fearful, go get some chickens, go grow your own food.  Store water in rainbarrels.  *shrug*

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552380 - 07/18/12 11:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552384 - 07/18/12 11:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Here is one from The Examiner:

Quote:


On March 16th, President Obama signed a new Executive Order which expands upon a prior order issued in 1950 for Disaster Preparedness, and gives the office of the President complete control over all the resources in the United States in times of war or emergency.

The National Defense Resources Preparedness order gives the Executive Branch the power to control and allocate energy, production, transportation, food, and even water resources by decree under the auspices of national defense and national security. The order is not limited to wartime implementation, as one of the order's functions includes the command and control of resources in peacetime determinations.

http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pTg79AWw









oh yes, a blog masquerading as a news source... again, so very convincing

how about you show is all this seized livestock and seized farms, how about
you back the claims you made in the title because copy/paste from various
retards around the web simply isnt convincing me... a farmer, a literate
farmer, a literate farmer that can comprehend what he's reading


so how about it, back it up and then tell us how thin obama will be
stretched running all the farms and factories that produce the food

"Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production"

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Maverick]
    #16552389 - 07/18/12 11:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
If you're so fearful, go get some chickens, go grow your own food.  Store water in rainbarrels.  *shrug*




Yes. This is a far better use of your time than panicky bullshit over the Internet. OP, do you think convincing us that the sky is about to fall is a better way to spend your time than finding and putting on a fucking helmet?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552395 - 07/18/12 11:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

But, you see, he demonstrated that the order, whatever it may say, does in fact exist. QED. :pipesmoke:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552422 - 07/18/12 11:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I did this myself pris: (aren't you proud?)

Quote:

teknix said:
Look at this:

Quote:


Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
(e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.





Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.

There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.




Do you agree this is what is being said here pris?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552440 - 07/18/12 11:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Here is one from The Examiner:

Quote:


On March 16th, President Obama signed a new Executive Order which expands upon a prior order issued in 1950 for Disaster Preparedness, and gives the office of the President complete control over all the resources in the United States in times of war or emergency.

The National Defense Resources Preparedness order gives the Executive Branch the power to control and allocate energy, production, transportation, food, and even water resources by decree under the auspices of national defense and national security. The order is not limited to wartime implementation, as one of the order's functions includes the command and control of resources in peacetime determinations.

http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pTg79AWw









oh yes, a blog masquerading as a news source... again, so very convincing

how about you show is all this seized livestock and seized farms, how about
you back the claims you made in the title because copy/paste from various
retards around the web simply isnt convincing me... a farmer, a literate
farmer, a literate farmer that can comprehend what he's reading


so how about it, back it up and then tell us how thin obama will be
stretched running all the farms and factories that produce the food

"Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production"




The Huffington Post and The Examiner are both used in current event databases.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552462 - 07/18/12 11:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
The Huffington Post and The Examiner are both used in current event databases.




Why do you think that makes them trustworthy sources of information? The Huffington Post is nothing but a news blog, all of its stories are basically other stories with a spin on top.



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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16552516 - 07/18/12 11:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't determine they are trustworthy, the people controlling the databases do.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552519 - 07/18/12 11:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They don't need to go through congress if they can spin it up as defense:


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552520 - 07/18/12 11:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I don't determine they are trustworthy, the people controlling the databases do.



And this response tells us what about your ability to make sense of the information you receive?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16552526 - 07/18/12 11:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I showed you exactly what it says, you're closing your eyes. (It won't make it go away) I personally determined what the order was saying, and others happen to be saying it as well.

Quote:



    Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

    Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
    (e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.








Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.

There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.

Can you see that? AMIRITE?

(they switched around the wording to confuse you, and it worked)

Edited by teknix (07/18/12 11:39 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552553 - 07/18/12 11:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That the government legally CAN shove its contracts through does not mean the government DOES shove EVERY conract through at the expense of ALL PRIVATE ENTERPRISE.

If you'd read the court cases you cited, you'd see that when the government does act even ever so slightly out of line in shoving its contacts through, it goes to the Supreme fucking Court.

What makes you think Obama can single-handedly disrupt this process? Again, if you fear a false-flag attack, I remind you that the power to pull off an event of that scale would eliminate the need to go through the official channels you're citing.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552591 - 07/18/12 11:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Here is one from The Examiner:

Quote:


On March 16th, President Obama signed a new Executive Order which expands upon a prior order issued in 1950 for Disaster Preparedness, and gives the office of the President complete control over all the resources in the United States in times of war or emergency.

The National Defense Resources Preparedness order gives the Executive Branch the power to control and allocate energy, production, transportation, food, and even water resources by decree under the auspices of national defense and national security. The order is not limited to wartime implementation, as one of the order's functions includes the command and control of resources in peacetime determinations.

http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pTg79AWw









oh yes, a blog masquerading as a news source... again, so very convincing

how about you show is all this seized livestock and seized farms, how about
you back the claims you made in the title because copy/paste from various
retards around the web simply isnt convincing me... a farmer, a literate
farmer, a literate farmer that can comprehend what he's reading


so how about it, back it up and then tell us how thin obama will be
stretched running all the farms and factories that produce the food

"Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production"




The Huffington Post and The Examiner are both used in current event databases.





dodging it... doesnt work. show us the proof that obama has seized farms and food production

there's news articles on the shroomery, that doesnt make us a news site

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552618 - 07/18/12 11:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I don't determine they are trustworthy, the people controlling the databases do.





so if someone puts up a blog they are the ones that determine that it's
trustworthy and that whether their reports contain any actual facts is
irrelevant because the blog writers have said it can be trusted

that explains a lot

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16552653 - 07/19/12 12:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
I don't determine they are trustworthy, the people controlling the databases do.





so if someone puts up a blog they are the ones that determine that it's
trustworthy and that whether their reports contain any actual facts is
irrelevant because the blog writers have said it can be trusted

that explains a lot





Yeah, but you guys aren't writing the news.

The databases like E-library and Ebsco didn't write the periodical news pris, they only decide to put it in the database if it was deemed worthy. Big difference and bad analogy.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552659 - 07/19/12 12:04 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Because he hasn't used the supreme executive power he's granted himself with the order, doesn't mean that it is OK for him to have such power.

Would you give me a nuke if I promise not to use it?

(Then why would I want it if I can't use it or wasn't ever going to use it?)

Well, maybe I could show it off to chicks.

"Wanna check out my nuke babe?"

:ranchydance:

Edited by teknix (07/19/12 12:15 AM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552696 - 07/19/12 12:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think that power is necessary for any time other then defending our nation from attack at our boarders.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552888 - 07/19/12 01:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
I don't determine they are trustworthy, the people controlling the databases do.





so if someone puts up a blog they are the ones that determine that it's
trustworthy and that whether their reports contain any actual facts is
irrelevant because the blog writers have said it can be trusted

that explains a lot





Yeah, but you guys aren't writing the news.

The databases like E-library and Ebsco didn't write the periodical news pris, they only decide to put it in the database if it was deemed worthy. Big difference and bad analogy.




so who ever writes the news determine;s what's a fact?

you must really love fox news, it's chock full of facts because unlike
huffington post, the examiner and nutter news, fox actually writes news
stories as opposed to simply reprinting it all the time


so databases like E-library and Ebsco only archive stuff that agrees with
their agenda? care to show us where on ebsco it says obama is seizing
control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and
food production... pretty much as you;ve phrased it, not just a copy of the
executive order that you clearly dont understand

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16552892 - 07/19/12 01:38 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Because he hasn't used the supreme executive power he's granted himself with the order, doesn't mean that it is OK for him to have such power.

Would you give me a nuke if I promise not to use it?

(Then why would I want it if I can't use it or wasn't ever going to use it?)





once again, you've still failed to show that this gives him any power to do anything

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16553049 - 07/19/12 03:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever, show how it's not, I already showed my reasoning as to why I think that, you haven't showed why you don't think that or how I am incorrect. Forget the sources and citations for now. This is all there is:
Quote:


      Sec. 202.  Determinations.  Except as provided in section 201(e) of this order, the authority delegated by section 201 of this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense:

        Sec. 201.  Priorities and Allocations Authorities.
        (e)  The Secretary of each resource department, when necessary, shall make the finding required under section 101(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(b).  This finding shall be submitted for the President's approval through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.  Upon such approval, the Secretary of the resource department that made the finding may use the authority of section 101(a) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071(a), to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.






Put in order:

So except "to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market." "this order may be used only to support programs that have been determined in writing as necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense"

Reduced:

This order may be used to control the general distribution of any material (including applicable services) in the civilian market.

There, I put it in order and reduced it for you. Can you see the obvious an irrelevant information and disclaimer that isn't really a disclaimer but a loophole considering the disclaimer says except for all resources.

Can you see that? AMIRITE?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16553164 - 07/19/12 05:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I can't believe how far this nonsense has gone...Some of you people have the patience of Job...

The OP is bouncing around like a pinball off of every single copy/pasted opinion he can find...I don't even think he knows what he's arguing anymore...

OP: The president can't make law.  This executive order isn't law.  It is, and can only ever be, a procedure for executing the law.  This order is ONLY valid insofar as it is 1) constitutional, and 2) a valid exercise of authority delegated by CONGRESS.

You needn't worry that the order might be interpreted to mean that the government can anal probe you at will...Unless Congress has made a law saying that...and the law is Constitutional...you won't be probed.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554094 - 07/19/12 11:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

OK the title says "Seizes CONTROL" it doesn't say SEIZES alone.

The post above yours isn't copy pasted.

You can argue that he isn't seizing or hasn't seized any items until your face turns blue. It doesn't change the facts present in the order that he does, in fact, take control of these things, EVEN IN PEACETIME.

Edited by teknix (07/19/12 11:29 AM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554118 - 07/19/12 11:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No...he takes control of nothing.  All he does is give control he already had to the heads of certain agencies...


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554123 - 07/19/12 11:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, He has to take control to give control.

He had no control over these things in peacetime previous to taking control.

You're a lawyer, you should know this mang. Obama isn't your client is he?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554132 - 07/19/12 11:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Again...the only powers he has are those powers given to him in the constitution and by congressional legislation..he can't take control of anything...he can only be given control of something...

Your understanding of our system is troubling.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554139 - 07/19/12 11:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Again YOU don't understand, even if he takes control on behalf of his cabinet, he is still taking it and then giving it to another to manage on his behalf.

Then who "gave" him control over all resources in peacetime?

He personally wrote that order.

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554148 - 07/19/12 11:40 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

He could write an order saying that everyone in the country has to suck his dick...it would be meaningless unless congress passed a law requiring it...

What part of that don't you understand?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554160 - 07/19/12 11:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, you are really a lawyer? Maybe I should take up LAW.

Quote:


The Defense Production Act (Pub.L. 81-774) is a United States law enacted on September 8, 1950, in response to the start of the Korean War. It was part of a broad civil defense and war mobilization effort in the context of the Cold War. Its implementing regulations, the Defense Priorities and Allocation System (DPAS), are located at 15 CFR §§700 to 700.93. The Act has been periodically reauthorized and amended, and remains in force as of 2012.

The Act contains three major sections. The first authorizes the President to require businesses to sign contracts or fulfill orders deemed necessary for national defense. The second authorizes the President to establish mechanisms (such as regulations, orders or agencies) to allocate materials, services and facilities to promote national defense. The third section authorizes the President to control the civilian economy so that scarce and/or critical materials necessary to the national defense effort are available for defense needs.[1]





This ORDER is in regards to the ABOVE law.

Quote:


By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness





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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554169 - 07/19/12 11:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the protip...I caught that in march when I first read it...

Got a point?  Or just like to copy/pasta?


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554189 - 07/19/12 11:50 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's refuting your argument that this order has no legal bearing. (try to keep up)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554192 - 07/19/12 11:51 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That was never my argument...

my argument was, and is, that he didn't grant himself any power...nor did he take control of anything...he was GIVEN POWER by congress...


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554196 - 07/19/12 11:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think so, not our congress and not to "him". It is for "DEFENSE" not for PEACE. Do you see the difference?

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554200 - 07/19/12 11:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have duly noted your layman's interpretation of the order and the underlying legislation.  I disagree with that interpretation.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554203 - 07/19/12 11:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This thread gives me a headache. 

You're both right and wrong. 

Presidents exercise all kinds of power through executive order.  Surely you don't remember Congress passing a declaration of war anytime in the last 60 years do you?  The presidents chose to send us to war which is a power that is strictly forbidden by the constitution.  Trying to make the case the the government isn't corrupt beyond belief and only acts within the law is pretty naive. 

Having said that, this EO doesn't at all say what the OP wants it to.  The government can do whatever it wants whenever it wants and it doesn't need to sign EO's or pass laws in Congress to do it.  This order reads to me as just a clarification of existing law and a plan of action for a possible future crisis.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554211 - 07/19/12 11:56 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sec. 102.  Policy.  The United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency.




AND

Quote:


(b)  The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions.





Yeah the clarification expands this power beyond "defensive" measures or in an emergency situation.

Edited by teknix (07/19/12 12:05 PM)

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: amilibertine]
    #16554237 - 07/19/12 12:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

amilibertine said:
This thread gives me a headache. 

You're both right and wrong. 

Presidents exercise all kinds of power through executive order.  Surely you don't remember Congress passing a declaration of war anytime in the last 60 years do you?  The presidents chose to send us to war which is a power that is strictly forbidden by the constitution.  Trying to make the case the the government isn't corrupt beyond belief and only acts within the law is pretty naive. 




Whether the president has the power to exercise his authority as commander-in-chief outside of the context of war is a not in dispute.  The extent to which that power can be exercised is a question that has been going back and forth since the end of WWII...if you have a particular opinion on it, that's fine...but don't pretend like there aren't arguable positions on both sides of the dispute.


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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554460 - 07/19/12 01:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
OK the title says "Seizes CONTROL" it doesn't say SEIZES alone.






so he takes control of all the food production and farms in the US, how will
he run them all, he's just one man, he cant be everywhere at once


again it appears you're wrong, so wrong in fact that it's cute

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Enlil]
    #16554465 - 07/19/12 01:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
He could write an order saying that everyone in the country has to suck his dick...






I want compensation

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554476 - 07/19/12 01:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Sec. 102.  Policy.  The United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency.




AND

Quote:


(b)  The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions.





Yeah the clarification expands this power beyond "defensive" measures or in an emergency situation.





neither of these say anything as you claim they do, they dont say that
obama can seize control of anything and it certainly doesnt give him
any power

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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16554478 - 07/19/12 01:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
OK the title says "Seizes CONTROL" it doesn't say SEIZES alone.






so he takes control of all the food production and farms in the US, how will
he run them all, he's just one man, he cant be everywhere at once


again it appears you're wrong, so wrong in fact that it's cute




Nah, I already explained that he seized control and gave it to his peoples to manage for him.

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554879 - 07/19/12 02:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

amilibertine said:
This thread gives me a headache. 

You're both right and wrong. 

Presidents exercise all kinds of power through executive order.  Surely you don't remember Congress passing a declaration of war anytime in the last 60 years do you?  The presidents chose to send us to war which is a power that is strictly forbidden by the constitution.  Trying to make the case the the government isn't corrupt beyond belief and only acts within the law is pretty naive. 

Having said that, this EO doesn't at all say what the OP wants it to.  The government can do whatever it wants whenever it wants and it doesn't need to sign EO's or pass laws in Congress to do it.  This order reads to me as just a clarification of existing law and a plan of action for a possible future crisis.



:whathesaid:

It sure seems like things are escalating, but like wallflower said, if that is what you (teknix) truly feel will happen, then prepare for it, no point in stressing yourself out by repeating the same argument over and over to the others who do not wish to share in your views, it is pointless. :heart:


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: treesniper119]
    #16554955 - 07/19/12 03:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not stressed, just trying to get to the bottom of things, as I have always done.

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: teknix]
    #16554994 - 07/19/12 03:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No getting to the bottom of this one...not until it happens:shrug: & by then, all the "i told you so's" in the world will not matter. In time, everyone will see it for what it was & realize we're on the same sinking ship :sad:


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: treesniper119]
    #16555014 - 07/19/12 03:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

treesniper119 said:
No getting to the bottom of this one...not until it happens:shrug: & by then, all the "i told you so's" in the world will not matter. In time, everyone will see it for what it was & realize we're on the same sinking ship :sad:





but when it doesnt happen, what's next, suicide because you blew everything
on zombie repellent and stocked up on food that went south

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16555033 - 07/19/12 03:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly if they start drafting, I'm prepared to dodge, unless it is actually defending our boarders from invaders.

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OfflineNizzyJones
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: amilibertine]
    #16555071 - 07/19/12 03:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

amilibertine said:
[...]Surely you don't remember Congress passing a declaration of war anytime in the last 60 years do you?  The presidents chose to send us to war which is a power that is strictly forbidden by the constitution.[...]




See the War Powers Resolution* - congress has delegated some of the war powers to the discretion of the President based on the long-standing idea that foreign policy is primarily his responsibility. It remains an unresolved argument weather or not Congress is constitutionally enabled to delegate that power but since no one has actually challenged it it's still on the books.

*Also the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) Against Terrorists and the AUMF against Iraq in 2002. Just because they didn't call it a declaration of war doesn't mean they didn't provide 'statutory authorization'.


--------------------
Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
Curriculum vapidum (dry herb vapes)

Edited by NizzyJones (07/19/12 03:36 PM)

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16568805 - 07/22/12 03:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

treesniper119 said:
No getting to the bottom of this one...not until it happens:shrug: & by then, all the "i told you so's" in the world will not matter. In time, everyone will see it for what it was & realize we're on the same sinking ship :sad:





but when it doesnt happen, what's next, suicide because you blew everything
on zombie repellent and stocked up on food that went south




:laugh2: that or your own suicide because you couldn't handle the truth when zombies ate your family and loved ones :shrug: jk. Or when the military police burst onto the scene (your property) and confiscate it, no worries, you'll be compensated at a later time. Jk
But seriously, storing up food that went south? Even storing up a few years worth of non perishable rations is smart to have on stand-by. luck favors the prepared prissy... & not so much the condescending short sighted arrogant folks... no, no, they eat their words & then they die. JK

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: treesniper119]
    #16568843 - 07/22/12 03:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not going to live in a fantasy world where the military would come to
seize my home at the orders of the president just because I'm a farmer,
if on the off chance that alien zombies invade or obama gets a wile hair
up his ass, I'll just take your food

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: Obama seizes control over all food, farms, livestock, farm equipment, fertilizer and food production [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #16570315 - 07/22/12 07:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you must be living in a fantasy world to think you'd ever get close enough to anything that's mine prissy :sniper: you can be farmer #1 or douchebag #1 in real life, but you step on my grounds, in this scenario, & you'll end up prisoner#1....or shot in the face from a good distance.... #1.:lol: :heart:


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


Edited by treesniper119 (07/22/12 07:15 PM)

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