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 Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland 
Last seen: 4 years, 26 days
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 Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication!  [Re: ToolTroll] 1
#17225565 - 11/15/12 06:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've just given up on that stuff, way too many blackouts followed by awful hangovers. Granted I was drinking at least a 750mL bottle of 9% rough cider with 5g/L MSG in it along with whatever other booze I would be drinking.
Might try it again in a couple of months but be sensible with it this time, and probably won't use cheap apple juice as the base fermentable, it always gives manky hangovers
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2,082
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#17236120 - 11/17/12 03:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it's the GHB that makes the hangover suck as much as anything. Even my batch of mead at 1g/L MSG was pretty rough in the morning if you had more than one or two and it struck me as having a different quality from alcohol hangovers alone. The synergy with a bowl of grass along with carefully enforced moderation is probably the best approach.
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Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
Curriculum vapidum (dry herb vapes)
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Cyans
mfmulcher
Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Pacific North West
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: NizzyJones]
#17238473 - 11/18/12 12:16 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pretty new brewer here but this thread made my day. Yeasties just are some impressive little critters
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reporting and trading from the PNW.
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 Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Asante]
#17240541 - 11/18/12 12:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Guys, it's time to spread the word about MSG and brewing.
Tell homebrewing friends, post about it in drug & homebrewing forums wherever appropriate.
This thing WORKS and we can either let it slip into obscurity or have it become a new emerging drug trend started right here on the Shroomery.
I do believe the world would be a better place with more homemade "GHB Beer" in it. Getting high by the fruits of your labor or that of a friend, independent on criminals to supply your drug or drug cops to control and bust you.
Spread the message around the wwworld!
It appears, the Genie is already out of the bottle!
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Asante]
#17240629 - 11/18/12 01:08 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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is it really a good idea to teach people to make a date rape drug
plus maybe this has something to do with the hangovers you people say it creates
Quote:
Combination with alcohol
In humans, GHB has been shown to inhibit the elimination rate of alcohol. This may explain the respiratory arrest that has been reported after ingestion of both drugs.[25] A review of the details of 194 deaths attributed to or related to GHB over a ten-year period found that most were from respiratory depression caused by interaction with alcohol or other drugs.[26]
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AgingHippy
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 15,613
Loc: Necropolis 
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17240776 - 11/18/12 01:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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off your high horse, you.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: AgingHippy]
#17240785 - 11/18/12 01:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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i was just pointing out the obvious, plus isnt purposely making ghb illegal?
why dont some just make a tek for extracting it from our wine
what happens if you distill this wine into something stronger?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17240799 - 11/18/12 01:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is this freevibe? Date rape drug? Oh please, there are no date rape drugs, only date rape people. Date rape people in 99.9% of cases use a mixture of alcohol and persuasion.
Slowing the elimination of alcohol is a good thing, slowing the elimination of acetaldehyde is a bad thing.
The combination of low dose Alc/GHB is very popular in the real world, it conserves on both ingredients.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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ToolTroll
tourettic
Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 2,326
Loc: N. Cack
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek] 1
#17241097 - 11/18/12 02:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
plus maybe this has something to do with the hangovers you people say it creates
I think the couple people who posted about the hangovers were just overdoing it. Moderation is the key here. This isn't something you drink after you finish off the 18-pack of Natty Light, it's more of a planned dose that requires some self-restraint. I also really like the idea of really low alcohol GHBeers ala sonamdrukpa.
Quote:
hidenseek said:
i was just pointing out the obvious, plus isnt purposely making ghb illegal?
Oh No! 
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Asante]
#17243130 - 11/18/12 07:47 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Is this freevibe? Date rape drug? Oh please, there are no date rape drugs, only date rape people. Date rape people in 99.9% of cases use a mixture of alcohol and persuasion.
.
thats sorta my point spreading the word you can make ghb alcohol that you can black out on easier over the internet wherever possible will end up in bad hands
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Guys, it's time to spread the word about MSG and brewing.
Tell homebrewing friends, post about it in drug & homebrewing forums wherever appropriate.
i like spreading knowledge but this seems like some pretty powerful knowledge to me
im glad i slowed my drinking down 10 fold, because 2 years ago, i would have made batch over batch of this stuff as strong as possible and given it to all sorts of people, who knows what they would of done with it
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ToolTroll
tourettic
Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 2,326
Loc: N. Cack
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17243156 - 11/18/12 07:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:2 years ago, i would have made batch over batch of this stuff as strong as possible and given it to all sorts of people, who knows what they would of done with it
There's a difference between spreading information freely and giving out intoxicants to people. But prohibition doesn't help.
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17243188 - 11/18/12 07:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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i think im just missing the point, its a neat chemistry trick, but you have to watch how much you drink, why not just make normal wine that you dont have to worry about if you had 1 cup too much
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AgingHippy
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 15,613
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17243668 - 11/18/12 09:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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same idea behind stronger weed in my opinion, just smoke/drink less for a higher quality experience.
technically we should all be responsible adults if we're brewing alcoholic beverages? 
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Cyans
mfmulcher
Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Pacific North West
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: AgingHippy]
#17247869 - 11/19/12 05:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am going to share this on a couple of the home brew forums and see what the guys over there think. Bet I will get some interesting comments. Need to do a GHBrew so I can get some street cred first
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reporting and trading from the PNW.
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Fronnis
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Cyans]
#17252185 - 11/20/12 12:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll be attempting a gallon of apfelwein with 2g/l MSG asap.
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chemfreak
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 8
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Fronnis]
#17252968 - 11/20/12 02:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi,
I made an account in the Shroomery just to be able to reply to this thread. I more usually post in bluelight.ru with username 'polymath'.
I can't access the chem forum where the theory behind the 'GHB brew' is discussed, but the hypothesis is probably based on the 'Ehrlich pathway' of amino acid metabolism by yeast. The Ehrlich mechanism removes a carboxyl group from an amino acid and replaces the amino group with a hydroxyl, producing fusel alcohols, like amyl alcohol from leucine and tryptophol from tryptophan. By the same logic, glutamate should turn into GHB in a fermenting sugar solution...
Unfortunately, yeast doesn't seem to metabolize glutamate in the same way it does other amino acids. I digged up some journal articles about fermentation of sugar with glutamate as the sole nitrogen source, and all of them talk about glutamate being metabolized to 2-ketoglutarate and succinic acid, with no mention about GHB being formed. The sources are
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8795209
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12949191
In other words, there's no scientific evidence that this method works. I don't believe that GHB is formed in this kind of a homebrew unless someone actually tests positive for GHB in a drug test after drinking the stuff.
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Spiderbaby
?
Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 4 years, 26 days
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: chemfreak]
#17253818 - 11/20/12 05:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah you are correct in that glutamate can be used in the biosynthesis of α-ketoglutarate (2-ketoglutarate) which is an essential TCA intermediate. However that does not mean this is the only enzymatic reaction it can undergo.
These papers both used glutamate as the sole source of nitrogen so the synthesis of α-ketoglutarate from glutamate was probably the most active pathway of glutamate metabolism as it is the most important. Adding an excess of glutamate to an otherwise balanced growth medium likely allows glutamate to be metabolised via other 'novel' pathways.
Also as for scientific evidence demonstrating this method works, you are again correct but there is evidence that GBL is produced naturally in wine,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11569560 BAM!
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chemfreak
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 8
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#17256496 - 11/21/12 01:35 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's a paper about another experiment where gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) was added to a fermenting liquid:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704823/
Quote:
The γ-aminobutyrate (GABA) shunt, an alternative route for the conversion of α-ketoglutarate to succinate, involves the glutamate decarboxylase Gad1p, the GABA transaminase Uga1p and the succinate semialdehyde dehydrogenase Uga2p. This pathway has been extensively described in plants and animals, but its function in yeast remains unclear. We show that the flux through Gad1p is insignificant during fermentation in rich sugar-containing medium, excluding a role for this pathway in redox homeostasis under anaerobic conditions or sugar stress. However, we found that up to 4 g of exogenous GABA/liter was efficiently consumed by yeast. We studied the fate of this consumed GABA. Most was converted into succinate, with a reaction yield of 0.7 mol/mol. We also showed that a large proportion of GABA was stored within cells, indicating a possible role for this molecule in stress tolerance mechanisms or nitrogen storage. Furthermore, based on enzymatic and metabolic evidence, we identified an alternative route for GABA catabolism, involving the reduction of succinate-semialdehyde into γ-hydroxybutyric acid and the polymerization of γ-hydroxybutyric acid to form poly-(3-hydroxybutyric acid-co-4-hydroxybutyric acid). This study provides the first demonstration of a native route for the formation of this polymer in yeast. Our findings shed new light on the GABA pathway and open up new opportunities for industrial applications.
So it looks like 70% of the GABA was converted to succinate, but also some GHB was created in polymerized form. Obviously the polymer would hydrolyze back to GHB if ingested.
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atomicshaman
puppet master
Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 2,469
Loc: germany 
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Asante]
#17256506 - 11/21/12 01:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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just posting so i can read it all later ,
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I only do legal drugs like alcohol , tobacco and valium so fuck off and die 
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Cyans
mfmulcher
Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Pacific North West
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: atomicshaman]
#17261976 - 11/22/12 12:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Homebrewer Keeping my eye on this one
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reporting and trading from the PNW.
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