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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid
#16518874 - 07/12/12 09:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm in the process of growing my first batch and everything is going good. I'm gather all needed equipment to put my harvest into capsules. In the process of researching this I came across the Lemon TEK. I would like to adapt this TEK into my Capsules. I already tried, and a drop of lemon juice on the capsule just breaks it down. I happen to have some citric acid powder on hand and would like to give that a shot. I got a few questions below that I'm hoping someone will have some incite or advice on.
1. Has anyone attempted Lemon TEK with citric acid powder instead of lemon juice, and if so, what were the results?
2. Given acidic powder works as a substitute in the Lemon TEK, how much how much citric acid powder should be mixed in with the shroom powder before packing into the capsules?
FYI: I'll be using 00 capsules, which fit approx 1g of powder.
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otherwhitemeat

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 875
Loc: Florida
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16518934 - 07/12/12 09:48 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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As I understand it, the acidic liquid jump-starts the conversion of relatively stable psilocybin into less stable psilocin. So pre-mixing with acid, an oxidizer, might tend to cause the powder to lose potency in storage rapidly. Besides, I tend to think that powdering the material, all by itself, accounts for most of the perceived potency boost of lemon tek. More surface area, faster absorption, shorter duration. More intense isn't always better.
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Marflix

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 293
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: otherwhitemeat]
#16519143 - 07/12/12 10:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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[removed post]
Edited by Marflix (09/19/21 08:32 AM)
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: Marflix]
#16519266 - 07/12/12 10:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Marflix said: If you're using capsules, you can't do lemon tek. The entire purpose of the lemon juice is to pre-digest the psilocybin into psilocin so you ingest the active compound.
Not only are you still going to be eating regular psilocybin that your stomach will take about 30 minutes to break down, but your stomach will also have to digest the capsules first, taking even longer. This is the opposite of anything you do with lemon tek. Just put the powder in the lemon juice, wait, and consume.
Why would it make sense to render the lemon juice inactive by having it in powder form??? A powder can't digest a powder. Especially not in a capsule.
In this case, the acidic powder in the mixture would, first off instantly disolve into the rest of the stomach acid (HCI), and act as a boosting agent in the stomach to produce more HCI, which will speed up digestion and absorbtion.
As for Lemon TEK. The acid in lemon juice is NO WHERE near strong enough to begin to break down the psilocybin or the mushroom at all. The lemon juice, I'm thinking, is to boost production of stomach acid (HCI) in the stomach when taking shrooms, which will increase the speed of absorbtion and the amount absorbed.
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Marflix

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 293
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16519626 - 07/12/12 12:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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[removed post]
Edited by Marflix (09/19/21 08:32 AM)
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: otherwhitemeat]
#16519718 - 07/12/12 12:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lemon Tek is based on myths and bad science.
Quote:
latherdome said: As I understand it, the acidic liquid jump-starts the conversion of relatively stable psilocybin into less stable psilocin. So pre-mixing with acid, an oxidizer, might tend to cause the powder to lose potency in storage rapidly. Besides,
Nope, none of this. (note, an acid and an oxydizer are different things).
Quote:
latherdome said:I tend to think that powdering the material, all by itself, accounts for most of the perceived potency boost of lemon tek. More surface area, faster absorption, shorter duration. More intense isn't always better.
Yes this!
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: StygianKnight]
#16519751 - 07/12/12 12:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The only useful thing the Lemon Tek does is to pull out psilocybin from the mush dissolving it in liquid, this way it more quickly absorbs through the walls of your stomach entering your system faster. Acids do not directly de-phosphate or oxidize psilocybin or psilocin. Nor do you want them to.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16519788 - 07/12/12 12:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jcperez1215 said: 1. Has anyone attempted Lemon TEK with citric acid powder instead of lemon juice, and if so, what were the results?
this is the third time that i will post to you.
read the tea tek in my sig.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: Marflix]
#16519835 - 07/12/12 01:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Marflix said: You have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing dissolves instantly when you encapsulate it AFTER the gel capsule is digested, then your stomach will get to digest the citric acid powder and mushroom powder. You could simply wash your shrooms down with OJ or soda and do the same goddamn thing without waiting for the gelcaps to dissolve - but you're not gonna speed up anything because you are not changing the psilocybin at all before ingesting it.
Lemon juice has a pH of around 2.3 on the pH scale. Gastric acid has a pH of 1.5 to 3.5. Soda [made with citric acid] is going to be about a 2.5. 
First off, the citric acid will only disolve after the capule is disolved, that is common sense, and for you to say that, makes you dense.
Secondly, The PH is a number based off of the actual acid. Not the concentration of that acid w/in the lemon juice. The amount is considerabley less then there is in your stomach. For the acid in lemon juice to have any effect you would have to leave it in the mix with shrooms for at least 30min. I plan on dosine before that.
You don't seem to have much common sense.
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: k00laid]
#16519900 - 07/12/12 01:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
k00laid said:
Quote:
jcperez1215 said: 1. Has anyone attempted Lemon TEK with citric acid powder instead of lemon juice, and if so, what were the results?
this is the third time that i will post to you.
read the tea tek in my sig.
Bro, I don't mean to be rude, but I've read your TEK, and I don't want to use it. I do not want to use a Tea TEK at all. I want to take in capsule form. Hence the name of the post. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Marflix

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 293
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16519910 - 07/12/12 01:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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[removed post]
Edited by Marflix (09/19/21 08:31 AM)
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: Marflix]
#16519974 - 07/12/12 01:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Marflix said:
Quote:
jcperez1215 said:
Quote:
Marflix said: You have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing dissolves instantly when you encapsulate it AFTER the gel capsule is digested, then your stomach will get to digest the citric acid powder and mushroom powder. You could simply wash your shrooms down with OJ or soda and do the same goddamn thing without waiting for the gelcaps to dissolve - but you're not gonna speed up anything because you are not changing the psilocybin at all before ingesting it.
Lemon juice has a pH of around 2.3 on the pH scale. Gastric acid has a pH of 1.5 to 3.5. Soda [made with citric acid] is going to be about a 2.5. 
First off, the citric acid will only disolve after the capule is disolved, that is common sense, and for you to say that, makes you dense.
Secondly, The PH is a number based off of the actual acid. Not the concentration of that acid w/in the lemon juice. The amount is considerabley less then there is in your stomach. For the acid in lemon juice to have any effect you would have to leave it in the mix with shrooms for at least 30min. I plan on dosine before that.
You don't seem to have much common sense.
Yes, precisely, you let the powder sit in the lemon juice for about 30 minutes; otherwise you're not doing lemon tek right. When I use lemon tek, I feel drunk with psilocin within two minutes of ingestion and start coming up hard within 5. My absent common sense tells me I am doing something right.
But you know what really works is to "double bag" your shroom powder in gel caps and use battery acid powder at a ratio of 2:1 in the outer layer and then wash it down with a little Drain-o. If you chase it with a little Sriracha, you'll feel it as soon as those little gel caps plop into your stomach.
OK, so disolving in lemon juice for 30 minutes, then come back and take the solution, or just pop a capsule. Either way, your waiting around 30 minutes. So your agrument with time is null and void.
As for the idiotic second comment, that just proves my statement about your common sense. Thanks for your insight Marflix!!
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16519989 - 07/12/12 01:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jcperez1215 said: Bro, I don't mean to be rude, but I've read your TEK, and I don't want to use it. I do not want to use a Tea TEK at all. I want to take in capsule form. Hence the name of the post. Thanks for the suggestion.
In that case, just grind, capsule and enjoy, you're not gaining anything by adding citric acid except a slightly higher chance of heart burn.
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Marflix

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 293
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16520008 - 07/12/12 01:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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[removed post]
Edited by Marflix (09/19/21 08:31 AM)
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: StygianKnight]
#16520029 - 07/12/12 01:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:
Quote:
jcperez1215 said: Bro, I don't mean to be rude, but I've read your TEK, and I don't want to use it. I do not want to use a Tea TEK at all. I want to take in capsule form. Hence the name of the post. Thanks for the suggestion.
In that case, just grind, capsule and enjoy, you're not gaining anything by adding citric acid except a slightly higher chance of heart burn.
Fair enough. I was coming to that conclusion as well. The only thing I think I've found with my search so far are some foods or drinks that would allow for the casule and shrooms to be digested, and absorbed more quickly and more thoroughly.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16520055 - 07/12/12 01:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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there is nothing more thorough than eating the mushrooms.
the point of doing extractions is to avoid ingesting mushroom chitin.
the best extraction you can do is to dissolve your psilocybin and psilocin into an acidified water.
citric acid is the most palatable of food grade acids (in my opinion)
the lemon tek is the same as the tea tek
but you are using less water and more acid.
and if you would read the ENTIRE tea tek thread, you would find that primal soup has pretty much found the "best" ratio of citric acid to mushroom weight.
what exactly is it that you think the lemon tek does?
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: k00laid]
#16520351 - 07/12/12 02:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
k00laid said: there is nothing more thorough than eating the mushrooms.
the point of doing extractions is to avoid ingesting mushroom chitin.
the best extraction you can do is to dissolve your psilocybin and psilocin into an acidified water.
citric acid is the most palatable of food grade acids (in my opinion)
the lemon tek is the same as the tea tek
but you are using less water and more acid.
and if you would read the ENTIRE tea tek thread, you would find that primal soup has pretty much found the "best" ratio of citric acid to mushroom weight.
what exactly is it that you think the lemon tek does?
The problem here is the chocolate. Chocolate is not acidic at all before digestion, but it seems to have a major effect on a2thej's trip. That lead me to think that the psilocybin is not actually being broken down into psilocin by the lemon juice, it's done in the stomach with the stomach acid (HCI). I"m thinking that the lemon juice react with the stomach in an alkaline way, causing the stomach to flood with HCI, causing faster digestion and more thorough absorbtion. The chocolate, once digested by the HCI, becomes highly acidic, which also, in turn, causes faster digestion and more thorough absorbtion. given there are no other varials in your stomach at th time of dosing. This theory would explain and validate both Lemon TEK, and the instance noted at the begining of this post with the chocolate.
I've done thorough research, and there is no science, at all, that I was able to find, that supported the claim that lemon juice/citric acid actually causes dephosophorylation in psilocybin. That is done in the body. Lemon juice has a PH of 3 or so, stomach acid has a ph of 1-2, and battery acid has a ph of 0-1. That should show that there is a massive difference from 1 to 2, and again from 2 to 3. Lemon juice causing psilcybin to dephosorylate to psilocibin is a theory, and I invite you to show proof otherwise, so I can just put my theory to rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Chemistry
The link noted above shows the chemical reaction when psilocybin converts to psilocin. This is done in highly acidic environment. Much more acidic than lemon juice can ever get.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dephosphorylation
The link above explains what dephosphorylation is and where and when it happens.
Maybe I missed something, but I would like some science to back the claim with lemon juice. Cause from everything I"ve been able to find, seems to be hearsay. I don't doubt that the lemon juice method works, and beleive that it does, I just beleive that the mass accepted reasoning behind this reaction is wrong. I just want to be sure I understand exactly what is happening.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: jcperez1215]
#16520612 - 07/12/12 03:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
but it seems to have a major effect on a2thej's trip.
flawed premise.
it had no effect.
but you know, thats just like, my opinion.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: k00laid]
#16520620 - 07/12/12 03:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
that supported the claim that lemon juice/citric acid actually causes dephosophorylation in psilocybin.
i never claimed it it.
i claimed that psilocybin and psilocin dissolve more easily in acidic water than in neutral PH water.
and it does.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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jcperez1215
Cuz

Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Lemon TEK w/Capsules and Citric Acid [Re: k00laid]
#16520760 - 07/12/12 03:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
k00laid said:
Quote:
that supported the claim that lemon juice/citric acid actually causes dephosophorylation in psilocybin.
i never claimed it it.
i claimed that psilocybin and psilocin dissolve more easily in acidic water than in neutral PH water.
and it does.
and what I'm saying is that no mater what juice you drink, there is nothing acidic enough to make a difference to the psilocybin. That is what I'm asking to be questioned. The lemon juice doesn't effect the psilocybin itself, it effect the body to produce more HCI, which is what breaks down the psilocybin.
Provide some scince that supports lemon juice having any real effect on psilocybin.
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