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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Gomp]
    #4974279 - 11/23/05 09:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what all this phisics talk..
All i wanna know is when i can have one onn my skate board.?


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Legoulash]
    #4982763 - 11/26/05 10:51 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think they would work self-contained, yet.

They reqire a lot of power for very little lift.

It would be great if this was anti-grav in the making, though.


Trendal, I see NASA has boldly stated 'we know what this is, its ion wind'.

Would you be able to prove / disprove what is causing the effect?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Ego Death]
    #4982905 - 11/26/05 11:40 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

is this for real? That is so cool...

if I had the time or ambition to undertake such a project, I would... but I'm already doing battle with failed reishi grow and I know nothing about electronics..


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Ego Death]
    #4982948 - 11/26/05 11:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'll have to wait until I get mine working, but I saw a video of one where a smoke device was placed over a working lifter. The smoke was very clearly accelerated downwards as if blown down by a wind. I'll see if I can do the same thing and make a video of it.

Now I've also seen experiments of stationary capacitors charged up to very high voltage, in which their weight was taken and shown to decrease with charge. The decrease was on the order of micrograms, I think, and they were using voltages well over 100kV. So there may very well be an "anti-gravity" effect with HV caps, but I think it is probably far too small to lift anything with today's technology (or anything you could build in your home). Lifters are far too big to rely on such a small effect.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #4982961 - 11/26/05 12:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I also want to see what effect it would have to try and concentrate the ion flow. Have the outside strip be non-conductive (plastic tape) instead of tinfoil, and have a smaller tinfoil triangle inside the tape one.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #4988988 - 11/28/05 08:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The world of high-voltage / high-frequencey is a playground of strange happenings. There is a lot left to discover.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Seuss]
    #4989247 - 11/28/05 10:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well I've managed to hack together most of the power supply, but I'm still missing the flyback transformer and have no broken TVs to remove one from :frown:





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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #4989349 - 11/28/05 11:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I just tossed a bunch of 'em in the trash a few weeks ago because I had to move. Lemme see if I have any more laying around. They are expensive to buy... in the $90 plus range, at least down here.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Seuss]
    #4989424 - 11/28/05 12:01 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah I looked to buy a new one and they are about the same price here :frown:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #4999688 - 11/30/05 05:58 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Finally got a working flyback from an old monitor, and have just finished the power supply:



I'm a little tired and quite stoned right now, neither of which makes a good combination with high-voltage (in my personal experience) so I'm going to put off testing the supply until tomorrow or Friday. I'll hopefully be able to give my lifter its first test flight by this weekend :smile:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5001291 - 12/01/05 02:14 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i dont think ioninc winds will be enough to lift anything heavy,however if you use magnitics in conjunction with, you might be able to get better force from this device.just a thought


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Cosm]
    #5001646 - 12/01/05 08:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Heavy? It weighs 4 grams :wink:

How would magnetics cause the craft to lift?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5001683 - 12/01/05 09:11 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

> How would magnetics cause the craft to lift?

Magnets work by releasing sub-atomic particles called magnetrons. Magnetrons reflect ionic wind, thus causing lift, at least north of the equater. You will obviously need to add some polyconic magnetic shields to the parabolic diploid of the magnet or highly toxic z-rays will be released.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Seuss]
    #5001689 - 12/01/05 09:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

/me melts into a puddle of simple hydrocarbons from the highly energetic z-rays


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5003414 - 12/01/05 05:40 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Just gave it my first attempt - nothing happened.

Of course, nothing exploded or caught on fire, either...so that's good :smirk:

At this point I can't be sure if I'm even getting the 30kV needed, as I don't have a high-voltage probe to test it with.

Any ideas?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineTheCow
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Registered: 10/28/02
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5005511 - 12/02/05 02:33 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Just gave it my first attempt - nothing happened.

Of course, nothing exploded or caught on fire, either...so that's good :smirk:

At this point I can't be sure if I'm even getting the 30kV needed, as I don't have a high-voltage probe to test it with.

Any ideas?



Hook it up to a breadboard and LED, if the LED turns on, your cooking with at least 3 volts.

Get a few resistors of like a gigaohm, and some fairly normal sized resistors, and just create a voltage divider.  Measure the voltage drop across a test resistor you have, and you can tell what the initial voltage was.  Of course,that might not be feasible.


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OfflineFlusH
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Registered: 10/23/01
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: Eightball]
    #5006729 - 12/02/05 01:56 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if there is a way to focus the energy from the HV(high voltage) device to any specific object without using a wire or cable as a conductor,

like if a magnetic field could be arranged in between the HV device output and the target and act as an insulator so the voltage would not just jump everywhere in the room.

This way you could remotely control your electrokinetic device and freak out the neighbors!

hmmm,  Maybe I should smoke a bowl and do some reading... :laugh:


Edited by FlusH (12/02/05 02:08 PM)


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: FlusH]
    #5006959 - 12/02/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yea you could do that, just make a huge Tesla Coil, which would induce a voltage in the other transformer to step it up to 30kV. Of course you might have currents running through your teeth if you had cavities, or random metal objects throughout your house.


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InvisibleCosm
Questioning
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 448
Loc: somewhere
Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5008563 - 12/02/05 10:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Heavy? It weighs 4 grams :wink:

How would magnetics cause the craft to lift?




we want to build flying craft that will transport people right,that would be heavy. magnetic fields could be used to inhance the thrust of the ionic wind/force. would using magnetic fields create a greater force? i know that magnetic fields will direct the ionic discharge like it does in a picture tube in a tv.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: building a electrokinetic device aka Lifter [Re: trendal]
    #5009780 - 12/03/05 09:55 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I've traced the problem to my power supply - it's just not putting out any HV at all (only a couple of volts DC plus some ripple).

I took this pic of my scope, the bottom square wave is the drive signal on the base of the transistor, the top is the signal from the HV output on the transformer. The scale is at 5v/div and 10us/div in time. The HV signal ripples around 2 volts.


And another shot, with the top line being the signal on the primary of the transformer. The signal in this pic is around 12v.


Now I've got my 555 set to about 27kHz...but the transformer seems to be resonating at around 200kHz.

Is that normal for a flyback of this type?

Would I get more HV if I set the timer to run at 200kHz as well?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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