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Ginseng1
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So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit
#16443583 - 06/27/12 12:37 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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He proclaimed that the state of absolute inner silence is where it's at. He said that the only difference between that state, and the state of deep sleep, is that in one of them your senses are open, and in the other they are not. "Sleep with awareness" he called it. He's pretty much saying that the bliss (absolute repose and vast tranquility) experienced in deep sleep is the same as the bliss experienced in the wakeful state of sahaja samadhi, and that the taste of absolution is the true taste of the Supreme Reality.
The changing feelings of the fiery and unstable "I" which constantly morph between different moods and emotions, fire and ice; it's feelings subject to concepts, imagination, and human interaction. We are told that it is the false "I" which we take to be who we are because it is so intimate to us, and it predominates our waking hours and also our dream experiences, and has something to say about every single encounter we have, and every one of our thoughts. He said that this "I" is ignorance itself.
Mooji often refers to this in his satsangs. In one satsang, an seeker asked him if this state of absolution is as great as deep sleep, and he told her that it is greater, because you're awake.
Now, surely everybody can attest to the sweetness of deep-sleep. Think about how there is almost nothing in the world that can compare to the feeling of hitting the snooze button on our alarm clocks in the morning, allowing us to experience that sinking into the deep and bottomless well of wholeness and delight in the heart. It is truly a state free of sorrow.
Maharshi tells us that this state can be experienced in our waking lives also, free of sorrow, full of the bliss of the Self.
Now my question to you is this: Does your experience conform to these notions?
Mine doesn't. But I can say that there is sound logic behind these claims, and that my meditativeness more or less confirms these notions, although it cannot be said that I've reached to the other shores. All that would be required is a transformation of the relationship we have with our minds.
As much as I hate to consider, one great meditation master said that when we've reached a certain maturity in meditation, we then have a chance of recognizing the great opportunity.. and it would take "just" 10... 20... 30 years before classical Nirvana is ours!
I'll be damned if I don't get to drink from this elixer of the Gods!
You see, here are my thoughts, the Maharshi wasn't the Maharshi because he was a good therapist. His experience must of been something profound enough to evoke a change in the atmosphere around him, and have an entire tradition born out of his presence. And his experience of daily living must be in stark contrast to mine, where everyday I have little struggles with myself, and am always witnessing my mechanical nature react to all kinds of nonsense - but mainly to human interactions, and the concepts exchanged therein.
You see, my question is this: Do we only perceive reality by inferring the falsity of our thoughts, interpretations and feelings, as they arise (as the "I"-feelings arise)? Is this is far as we can go in seeing things as they are?
Do we only know truth by understanding that our feelings don't reflect the reality of things (i.e. someone speaks to me in a certain tone and I'm beginning to be convinced that they are trying to insult me, and I come up with certain mental conclusions - very personal in nature - based on a combination of what was said towards me, how it was said, the feelings that have manifested as I heard it, similar memories, etc... when the truth of the situation was that the person never intended to disturb my inner world in the least, and perhaps made an impersonal remark in jest because they are having a good day).
Is the perception of truth and things as they are always a chess match between what our "I"-feeling tells us is so, vs. our minds identifying with own higher awareness telling us that it is not so.
Or is there truly a state where one perceives things as they are, and they never have to question themselves and their interpretations and personal "I"-feelings because they simply don't arise?
The "I"-feelings don't arise in deep sleep. Maharshi proclaims that the "I"-feelings don't arise in the state of Realization either, and thus don't distort our perception of reality.
This would seem that so long as the "I"-feelings arise in our waking-consciousness and we have to dance with and subdue them, then it cannot be said that we are in the direct perception of truth.
So.. I wonder if my fellow seekers and mediators are following me in this. Can you honestly say in your heart of hearts that you see things as they are? Or as your dancing and struggling with your "I"-self, or the external world (as some might see it)? The way I see it, I have no problems with the world and its people, and any problem I have with someone is a problem with myself.
Is seeing things as they are to see the falsity of yourself and constantly inferring the falsity of everything about your reactions, or is seeing things as they are to see without the arising of your "I"-self at all, the root of all our conflict.
I know I keep repeating myself but as I type this, I'm trying to clarify my own thoughts. Can it be said that the truth of things is revealed to a man wearing colour-shaded glasses by his inference that the ubiquitous shading he sees does not reflect the truth? Or is the truth only revealed to him when he has removed them completely?
Does this not all have such a profound implication on how we perceive and life our lives? Was Maharshi great because he was a master of understanding the falsity of his delusion? Or was he a master because delusions no longer manifested in his consciousness - thus allowing his heart to abide in the ocean of emptiness?
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
Edited by Ginseng1 (06/27/12 12:51 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Ginseng1]
#16444260 - 06/27/12 07:52 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't think any of this is possible for most of us at least. Just look around and you'll see.
I personally don't buy it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lion
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16444290 - 06/27/12 08:11 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now my question to you is this: Does your experience conform to these notions?
I am open to the possibility of Sahaja Samadhi, it does not seem like a far-fetched idea at all. I believe Ramana Maharshi fell into the state spontaneously, and Mooji by the grace of his guru who was the disciple of Ramana. It seems almost impossible to imagine attaining and then sustaining such a state of being, even with a vigorous meditative practice.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Lion]
#16444414 - 06/27/12 09:03 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is my point. All you have are stories about a few "special" others who were supposed to have experienced it. Of course you have to take their word for it. You yourself know of no one personally who does it and you can't come close yourself.
This is how religion works imo. You get impressed with stories that are likely totally untrue because someone said someone else did it. Take a good look into the mythologies of all religions and there it is.
So it does seem like a wildly farfetched idea imo due to all of this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lion
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16444496 - 06/27/12 09:36 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: This is my point. All you have are stories about a few "special" others who were supposed to have experienced it. Of course you have to take their word for it. You yourself know of no one personally who does it and you can't come close yourself.
This is how religion works imo. You get impressed with stories that are likely totally untrue because someone said someone else did it. Take a good look into the mythologies of all religions and there it is.
So it does seem like a wildly farfetched idea imo due to all of this.
I don't think such a state is as far-fetched as many religious claims, though. There is plenty of evidence that meditation can have profound effects of relaxation and induction of trance-like states, and Sahaja Samadhi seems to describe a very deep and calm form of such a state. I think if one were focusing one's energy on yoga and meditation, on eating Sattvic foods, and relatively isolated from many of the stresses of contemporary life, it would not be impossibly difficult to imagine attaining a state that is like being consciously in deep sleep, i.e. silent mind, relaxed body, feelings of spaciousness. Whether most people are capable of abiding in and functioning in such a state is debatable.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Lion]
#16444586 - 06/27/12 10:09 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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If it's not "impossibly difficult" then considering the millions of meditators out there it would be somewhat common.
Of course you will believe anything that you like and again you are just repeating tales you've heard and choose to believe.
When you've had the experience contact me. 
Of course saying it's not as far fetched as other religious claims may have some merit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Ginseng1] 3
#16444911 - 06/27/12 11:31 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have had a glimpse of the Nirvikalpa samadhi (alternatively, Asamprajnata samadhi), wherein personal identity - all reference to name, thoughts-memories, and physical sensation ceased. What remained was an infinite expanse of Clear Light/"Unbearable Compassion" which was simple, pure Identity. The expanse WAS Ultimate Identity - the "I AM" I suppose, of biblical metaphysics, and the Self without psychophysical referent according to Sri Ramana. That moment of infinite expansion was followed by a contraction of the Infinite into the Infinitesimal - a 'point,' a 'piercing,' experience of "Unbearable Compassion" around which my Heart and then my mind-body and the world of space-time returned in the "twinkle of an eye." I understood the meaning, experientially of OM MANI PADME HUM - The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. The Diamond Body, the Pearl of Great Price buried in a field, the Philosopher's Stone - all metaphors for that 'singularity' that opens into Infinity. This was a moment in Eternity, some 40 years ago, that continues to support me throughout life and death-anxiety.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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crkhd
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander] 1
#16444980 - 06/27/12 11:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I understand the reasoning but I've hit this state of samadhi numerous times. Before experiencing such depth I also questioned whether these guys were telling the truth. However it seems more like they (or people in general) are embellishing what is actually a very simple experience and ascribing sacredness & mysticism to what is essentially the default state of a mind truly at peace. In doing so they create the perception amongst people unfamiliar with it that these states are at the top of an arduous and rocky road up a treacherous mountain.
For example here's a great description of it and again this is just a random blogger, not really some kind of guru surrounded by devotees. I know quite a few people myself who are essentially residing in this state or basically are capable of doing so. The perception that this is rare seems only kept alive by those who don't believe it's attainable and even more so those who want glory or recognition for attaining... themselves.
To just switch off your mind is not the way to go. Humans are here to be human, not still oceans and the article I linked to makes the distinction between the mind and the self of absorption/union quite clear. Let the mind be the mind and let the ocean be the ocean.
Also, what MarkosTheGnostic said! Reading that made my vision shimmer for a second. Expansion then contraction, exactly as described. That was the very experience that opened the doorway to truly cultivating this state in waking life. It seems that this experience is built into the brain just waiting for a seeker to activate it. I don't believe someone could attain this without totally surrendering themselves to God.
-------------------- "Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern." "THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker "If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
Edited by crkhd (06/27/12 12:03 PM)
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Lion
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16445147 - 06/27/12 12:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: If it's not "impossibly difficult" then considering the millions of meditators out there it would be somewhat common.
Of course you will believe anything that you like and again you are just repeating tales you've heard and choose to believe.
When you've had the experience contact me. 
Of course saying it's not as far fetched as other religious claims may have some merit. 
The question is, who has NOT had such an experience who has taken a high dose of entheogens? It seems fairly common among both users of entheogens, and serious meditators. I have had numerous experiences that were similar enough to the description of Sahaja Samadhi to make me see it as a totally plausible experience. I'd bet you have too, and have forgotten them or are choosing not to mention them for the sake of discussion.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: crkhd]
#16445624 - 06/27/12 02:15 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you're talking about a "flow state" I've been there especially when I worked as a potter throwing lots of one item. Also fishing for trout in mountain streams. No thought for short periods, full concentration. You feel rested and refreshed afterword like you took a long sleep. You can't stay there imo.
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Chronic7
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Ginseng1]
#16445657 - 06/27/12 02:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ginseng1 said: Maharshi tells us that this state can be experienced in our waking lives also, free of sorrow, full of the bliss of the Self.
Now my question to you is this: Does your experience conform to these notions?
It's my experience that that Bliss is always available, and that the only obstacle is our wildhorse attention, i say 'only'... attention is the wildest horse there is, and it can go to so many countless things, so you could also say everything is an obstacle, and also say that nothing is an obstacle, because whose mind is it anyway? Who does attention belong to?
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You see, here are my thoughts, the Maharshi wasn't the Maharshi because he was a good therapist. His experience must of been something profound enough to evoke a change in the atmosphere around him, and have an entire tradition born out of his presence. And his experience of daily living must be in stark contrast to mine, where everyday I have little struggles with myself, and am always witnessing my mechanical nature react to all kinds of nonsense - but mainly to human interactions, and the concepts exchanged therein.
No body is outside of this, you will more & more become aware of the tendency to react, sometimes you'll react prematurely, sometimes you'll see it arising, stay unattached, stay beyond the whole game of action/reaction, sometimes you'll question that itself & then not even be identified as something that can 'get involved' or 'stay beyond' the play.
Ramana very swiftly became unidentified with everything, he wasn't practicing anything. The closest thing i've read about him practicing was in reference to the question 'who am i?' someone was asking for a method, and he said 'by asking 'who am i?', thats how i did it', he also gave the impression several times that other peoples actions emotionally affected him, like once he was given more food than someone else & his response was annoyance with the person who served him a bigger portion. That doesn't mean he was attached to the chain of action reaction.
If you went to a Buddha & kept punching him the face repeatedly, if he moved away, would that mean he hasn't attained Nirvana?
Action/reaction is an endless ocean man, nobody can stop it  Reactions will happen, so don't be attached to that ocean & whatever reactions that need to die off will naturally die off
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You see, my question is this: Do we only perceive reality by inferring the falsity of our thoughts, interpretations and feelings, as they arise (as the "I"-feelings arise)? Is this is far as we can go in seeing things as they are?
Is the perception of truth and things as they are always a chess match between what our "I"-feeling tells us is so, vs. our minds identifying with own higher awareness telling us that it is not so.
Or is there truly a state where one perceives things as they are, and they never have to question themselves and their interpretations and personal "I"-feelings because they simply don't arise?
The "I"-feelings don't arise in deep sleep. Maharshi proclaims that the "I"-feelings don't arise in the state of Realization either, and thus don't distort our perception of reality.
This would seem that so long as the "I"-feelings arise in our waking-consciousness and we have to dance with and subdue them, then it cannot be said that we are in the direct perception of truth.
Is seeing things as they are to see the falsity of yourself and constantly inferring the falsity of everything about your reactions, or is seeing things as they are to see without the arising of your "I"-self at all, the root of all our conflict.
I know I keep repeating myself but as I type this, I'm trying to clarify my own thoughts. Can it be said that the truth of things is revealed to a man wearing colour-shaded glasses by his inference that the ubiquitous shading he sees does not reflect the truth? Or is the truth only revealed to him when he has removed them completely?
Negation can be a good tool, some say that you can not know Reality, you can only know what is unreal. What they mean is that you can only Be Reality & know the unreal as a phenomenal appearance, so ultimately false, any 'knowledge' is also phenomenal, so is also unreal, not Absolute Reality.
When this kind of contemplation takes hold, then its grace, but it can't be forced. Believing something is unreal has a delusional taste to it, knowing it is unreal because it can not be the Absolute is something else. Its like a logical fact. It becomes like knowing water is wet... but really it surpasses any other knowledge, its not like knowing anything, because its knowing nothing.
The wisest people don't know anything & so remain full of the essence of everything.
So when in you That Alone shines, as it always is, then your attention is so out of time that your beyond questioning things. Reality is not trying to get to itself, it Is.
So contemplation, meditation, self-inquiry isn't building up to a state which you maintain & achieve more & more, its undressing, undressing before the eye of God. What is the last garment that you'll drop? 'I'
Then things can still arise, and they arise more gracefully because if you/I isn't attached to the appearance of something arising, then that thing has the space to fully be itself. Your not suffocating it. So non-attachment isn't a rejection of forms, its a true acceptance of all forms of life, you can only really accept something if you aren't attached to it in anyway
Papaji was a disciple of Ramana who was a devout Bhakata, devoted to Sri Krishna, he would sometimes have visions of Krishna appear before him, he told Ramana about the visions & his wish to repeat them, Ramana said to him 'what appears must also disappear, find out who the seer is'. Papaji was once recounting a story about Ramana where he was full of doubt & mistrust towards him and went to go see him full of anger, as he arrived someone brought a picture of Krishna to Ramana & he saw Ramana cry with such intense emotion that it cleared all his doubt about Ramana
So intense emotions can arise, many things can appear, but who is it that sees them? 
Quote:
Does this not all have such a profound implication on how we perceive and life our lives? Was Maharshi great because he was a master of understanding the falsity of his delusion? Or was he a master because delusions no longer manifested in his consciousness - thus allowing his heart to abide in the ocean of emptiness?
Ramana had a severe death anxiety panic attack shortly after his Dad had died, and that shock to his mind somehow destroyed his identity with the body. The most he gave away about what he 'did' to stay in that state, was to ask the question 'who am i?' which came to him very naturally, i don't think he was mentally labelling appearances as 'delusion', he naturally/intuitively stayed as the Self after that initial death experience.
Most have to work hard on themselves until they pop out of it, only to see they were never in it in the first place
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Edited by Chronic7 (06/27/12 02:41 PM)
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Chronic7
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Lion]
#16445687 - 06/27/12 02:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lion said:
Quote:
Icelander said: If it's not "impossibly difficult" then considering the millions of meditators out there it would be somewhat common.
Of course you will believe anything that you like and again you are just repeating tales you've heard and choose to believe.
When you've had the experience contact me. 
Of course saying it's not as far fetched as other religious claims may have some merit. 
The question is, who has NOT had such an experience who has taken a high dose of entheogens? It seems fairly common among both users of entheogens, and serious meditators. I have had numerous experiences that were similar enough to the description of Sahaja Samadhi to make me see it as a totally plausible experience. I'd bet you have too, and have forgotten them or are choosing not to mention them for the sake of discussion.
What about the experiences you had on MDMA Ice?
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Chronic7]
#16448334 - 06/27/12 10:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was thinking like crazy. All loving thoughts however.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16448477 - 06/27/12 11:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is a really good thread. Nips this whole thing right in the bud. My experience is that the state Maharshi speaks of is the natural state when the mind is put at rest. I have had very few wonderful meditative experiences where I felt like love-bliss just encompassed my being. These are very rare, but it is important to recognize these experiences as merely signposts on a longer path. When I had one of the most profound of these experiences, I noticed what pulled me out of it - That damn voice in my head. "What is this amazing feeling? What is happening to me? it said. The voice that speaks to you right now. I achieved these blissful states by repeating a mantra - over and over - not thinking about the meaning, just focusing on the sound. More recently, my mantra has changed to 'I AM', over and over. I believe Maharshi specified not to "think of the meaning when one asks the question, Who Am I?", so he was in essence offering a form of mantra to still the mind - the bring one's attention to the essence of our being, which can be found by going deep into the feeling of the body.
Quote:
The way I see it, I have no problems with the world and its people, and any problem I have with someone is a problem with myself.
Yes, this is very profound I think.
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Lion
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#16449823 - 06/28/12 08:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
These are very rare, but it is important to recognize these experiences as merely signposts on a longer path.
Or, if you are a Zen practitioner, to recognize these experiences as distractions, since the sitting itself is the path and the only goal.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#16449918 - 06/28/12 09:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I have had a glimpse of the Nirvikalpa samadhi (alternatively, Asamprajnata samadhi), wherein personal identity - all reference to name, thoughts-memories, and physical sensation ceased. What remained was an infinite expanse of Clear Light/"Unbearable Compassion" which was simple, pure Identity. The expanse WAS Ultimate Identity - the "I AM" I suppose, of biblical metaphysics, and the Self without psychophysical referent according to Sri Ramana. That moment of infinite expansion was followed by a contraction of the Infinite into the Infinitesimal - a 'point,' a 'piercing,' experience of "Unbearable Compassion" around which my Heart and then my mind-body and the world of space-time returned in the "twinkle of an eye." I understood the meaning, experientially of OM MANI PADME HUM - The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. The Diamond Body, the Pearl of Great Price buried in a field, the Philosopher's Stone - all metaphors for that 'singularity' that opens into Infinity. This was a moment in Eternity, some 40 years ago, that continues to support me throughout life and death-anxiety.
I believe all insecurity is cause by an imbalance in the Heart Chakra. You should try the the Sahaja Yoga guided meditation I posted before and see if that doesn't take you to Nirvichara (thoughtlessness). Once you're thoughtless or at least have the capability to stop your thoughts momentarily then you can begin working on your chakras. Just trying to help... I can tell you that I honestly am not worried about the idea that one day I will no longer exist as this person. The Atman is located in the Heart Chakra on the Ida Nadi.
Anyways in Sahaja Yoga this samadhi (Nirvikalpa) spoken of in this thread is called "doubtless awareness" and comes to a yogi after they have achieved thoughtlessness. I can't speak from experience on it but it is said that one has doubts about the spirit while thoughtless and then when they become doubtless it's like becoming a "drop in the ocean" and all doubts are gone.
I'm paraphrasing like hell always so don't ever take anything I say as if it is the full knowledge or even true.
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Icelander
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: yeah]
#16450697 - 06/28/12 11:51 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can tell you that I honestly am not worried about the idea that one day I will no longer exist as this person. The Atman is located in the Heart Chakra on the Ida Nadi.
And why would you? As Becker would say you have found a almost perfect shield to death anxiety, a transcendental belief in immortality. Not of the personal self but of the cosmic self which you now believe to be more real than the personal self. Believe it or not this is how most all religions work. Not to say your belief is not true because I don't believe we can actually know that but it's also true that Becker might be correct in ascertaining that it is just a shield. Personally I wish I could embrace it fully but alas that doesn't seem to be how I'm built. Used to work at one time but so did Christianity even with some of the cosmic feeling experiences I had at those times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Ginseng1]
#16450775 - 06/28/12 12:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sleep is my favourite time of day.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16450872 - 06/28/12 12:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I can tell you that I honestly am not worried about the idea that one day I will no longer exist as this person. The Atman is located in the Heart Chakra on the Ida Nadi.
And why would you? As Becker would say you have found a almost perfect shield to death anxiety, a transcendental belief in immortality. Not of the personal self but of the cosmic self which you now believe to be more real than the personal self. Believe it or not this is how most all religions work. Not to say your belief is not true because I don't believe we can actually know that but it's also true that Becker might be correct in ascertaining that it is just a shield. Personally I wish I could embrace it fully but alas that doesn't seem to be how I'm built. Used to work at one time but so did Christianity even with some of the cosmic feeling experiences I had at those times. 
this is the same for me and I have to applaud you for this entire passage. the openness of it is awesome
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16451281 - 06/28/12 01:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I can tell you that I honestly am not worried about the idea that one day I will no longer exist as this person. The Atman is located in the Heart Chakra on the Ida Nadi.
And why would you? As Becker would say you have found a almost perfect shield to death anxiety, a transcendental belief in immortality. Not of the personal self but of the cosmic self which you now believe to be more real than the personal self. Believe it or not this is how most all religions work. Not to say your belief is not true because I don't believe we can actually know that but it's also true that Becker might be correct in ascertaining that it is just a shield. Personally I wish I could embrace it fully but alas that doesn't seem to be how I'm built. Used to work at one time but so did Christianity even with some of the cosmic feeling experiences I had at those times. 
If you're ever in the mood to try one more path then look up Sahaja Meditation. It's likely in your area... and it's free.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: yeah]
#16457367 - 06/29/12 06:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is also, believe it or not the standard reply when I point all this out to folk.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16467326 - 07/01/12 08:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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what you said or what I said?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: yeah]
#16467334 - 07/01/12 08:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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u
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16467355 - 07/01/12 08:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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k
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Kupo
Kupop!


Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 2,112
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16467758 - 07/01/12 09:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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What is it about a shield that puts you off Ice?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Kupo]
#16467785 - 07/01/12 09:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shields in and of themselves never put me off. They are necessary to our well-being imo. Of course some types of shields put me off.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kupo
Kupop!


Registered: 08/07/08
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Re: So Ramana said that the state of Sahaja Samadhi is the shit [Re: Icelander]
#16467842 - 07/01/12 09:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gotcha. You can borrow mine if you ever need one.
It's shiny.
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