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InvisibleSL28
Psilonaut

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435684 - 06/25/12 12:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

gornyhuy,

that sounds like a wonderful idea. Thank you for the reference.

Edited by SL28 (06/25/12 12:38 PM)

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InvisibleSL28
Psilonaut

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435691 - 06/25/12 12:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Btw, called this morning and the nurse said S. got at least 7 hours of sleep. I'm guessing when I'm able to visit her this evening she will be pretty with-it, albeit groggy and disoriented from the drugs they give her.

Edited by SL28 (06/25/12 12:37 PM)

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OfflineFakePlasticSky
Fake Plastic Trees
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Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 3,543
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435742 - 06/25/12 12:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

OMG, I am so sorry this happened to you.  My thoughts and prayers are with you man!  How is your wife doing now?  Hopefully things are better?  This is a very upsetting read cause I can only imagine how you are feeling right now.


--------------------
I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.

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InvisibleThayendanegea
quiet walker
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Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,600
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation Flag
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: FakePlasticSky]
    #16435888 - 06/25/12 01:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Have you considered contacting the researchers at Johns Hopkins who are currently doing psychological experiments using psyclocybin?  They woudl certainly know what to do in this case AND would carry the weight of a respected institution and of "modern medicine" to have some sway with the people that are treating your friend.


That is so bizarre because ....I was just thinking that same thing when I read this post. Hopkins is my town and I have read some of their research. I doubt they have studied anything exactly similar to your GF situation, but a telephone call would certainly be worth your time....they may be very interested in this particular case as well. I will see if I can find out some names of the research shrinks that were/ are involved. I'm not sure this study is still going on though. I believe, these studies involved the spirituality  aspects of psilocybin. Again, prayers for you both.:peace:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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InvisibleThayendanegea
quiet walker
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Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,600
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation Flag
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16435930 - 06/25/12 01:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, did a little research....the Dr's name is Roland Griffiths and his email is rgriff@jhmi.edu  and here is the link to the study..http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf Hopefully, some of this may be of assistance and maybe this Griffiths or one of his colleagues may actually help you. Hope so.

M


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16435974 - 06/25/12 02:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i think it would be a fantastic idea to contact the researchers at Hopkins, im positive that they could provide an immense amount of help in this situation. not only with your gf specifically, but this also has the potential to set a precedent for how to handle all future drug induced psychosis cases, or how law enforcement/medical staff deal with people under the influence of psychedelics in general


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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InvisibleThayendanegea
quiet walker
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Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,600
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation Flag
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16436239 - 06/25/12 03:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I absolutely agree psyconaught. BTW, Here is a exerpt from the conclusion page of the Hopkins study.....:While there is no indication that carefully monitored
clinical exposure of psilocybin to hallucinogen-naïve
volunteers results in subsequent abuse (present study;
Gouzoulis-Mayfrank, personal communication; Yensen
and Dryer, (1992)1; Leuner 1981), the epidemic of
hallucinogen abuse in the 1960s raises an important
cautionary note. Abuse of hallucinogens can be exacerbated
under conditions in which hallucinogens are readily
available illicitly and the potential harms to both the
individual and society are misrepresented or understated.
It is important that the risks of hallucinogen use not be
underestimated. Even in the present study in which the
conditions of volunteer preparation and psilocybin administration
were carefully designed to minimize adverse
effects, with a high dose of psilocybin 31% of the group
of carefully screened volunteers experienced significant
fear and 17% had transient ideas of reference/paranoia.
Under unmonitored conditions, it is not difficult to imagine
such effects escalating to panic and dangerous behavior.
Also, the role of hallucinogens in precipitating or exacerbating
enduring psychiatric conditions and long-lasting
visual perceptual disturbances should remain a topic of
research (Abraham et al. 1996; Halpern and Pope 1999). It is important to note that this study was done on carefully screened and under strongly controlled conditions....none of the test subjects had any underlying or preexisting psych disorders.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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InvisibleSL28
Psilonaut

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16437969 - 06/25/12 09:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I read http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf and found it very informative--it actually made me feel a bit better. I would print a copy of it and give it to S.'s supervising doctor but, as balitmark's signature states:

'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'

S. is completely lucid now, but is still clinging to the feeling that someone has died and needs frequent confirmation that everyone she cares about are still alive and that she herself is not dead and will not die anytime soon. I suppose this feeling derives from the ego death she experienced. She's had other hallucinations in the past couple days that her doctor attributes to a flashback, but are unrelated to her experience--like our house burning down. I feel it would be pointless to suggest to the doctor that when we go a very long time without sleep our mind starts projecting our dreams into reality since it does not have a dreamscape to project on. In any case, when she's able to sleep without the drugs, I'm getting her the fuck out of there. If they don't allow it, I have several close friends that are lawyers, I can have them help or get a marriage certificate for rights--we were planning on getting married anyways, though on more romantic circumstances. I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.

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OfflineVahn421
Awakening Moonlighter
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Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16438295 - 06/25/12 10:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Glad to hear she got some sleep.

She's a PIANIST? God....

If she could be in the same room with someone playing an actual piano... songs that she knew how to play herself, it would probably be more healing than anything else she could possibly do right now for her mental health, aside from sleep.

If you feel up for it, you can sing to her, too.

I'm almost certain you could have brought her back ages ago this way. Hospitals are very fearful environments, so that doesn't help.

Good vibes from me, bro.

ETA: When all of this is said and done and your GF fully recovers her lucidity, from her perspective, I wonder how much, "time" will have passed?

-V


--------------------

Edited by Vahn421 (06/25/12 10:21 PM)

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OfflineSaint Marcus
Stranger
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Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 765
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16439991 - 06/26/12 10:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.





Ya u do....those docs rn't doing nething good for her probably. Ther r alot of great people in this community and they will b able to help with suggestions and advice just as well as neone else....Shitt.....u could prob find a professional that is needed through this site

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InvisibleThayendanegea
quiet walker
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,600
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation Flag
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16439994 - 06/26/12 10:42 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I read http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf and found it very informative--it actually made me feel a bit better. I would print a copy of it and give it to S.'s supervising doctor but, as balitmark's signature states:

'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'

S. is completely lucid now, but is still clinging to the feeling that someone has died and needs frequent confirmation that everyone she cares about are still alive and that she herself is not dead and will not die anytime soon. I suppose this feeling derives from the ego death she experienced. She's had other hallucinations in the past couple days that her doctor attributes to a flashback, but are unrelated to her experience--like our house burning down. I feel it would be pointless to suggest to the doctor that when we go a very long time without sleep our mind starts projecting our dreams into reality since it does not have a dreamscape to project on. In any case, when she's able to sleep without the drugs, I'm getting her the fuck out of there. If they don't allow it, I have several close friends that are lawyers, I can have them help or get a marriage certificate for rights--we were planning on getting married anyways, though on more romantic circumstances. I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.



Glad you found some solace in the study and you are the first person to comment on Herbert Spencers' "everlasting ignorance" speech. Even though it was written during WW1, I find this as becoming more and more common in mainstream America today in both politics (Tea Party) and, as you have found, medical and legal fields.
Still praying for you two.:sunny::peace: M


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein

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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16440031 - 06/26/12 10:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's good news bud! Glad to hear that she's coming back. I was pretty confident she would, but sooner is always better than later.

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OfflinePeaceLove
Psilo-baked
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Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Earth, Milky Way Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 16 days
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16440258 - 06/26/12 11:49 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If I could, I'd slap everyone of those "doctors". They probably knew they could bring her out of it as soon as she came in, but they don't get as much money that way. Plus they probably felt it as their moral duty to turn her away from drugs by feeding her worse drugs and telling her "drugs are bad mkay.. now eat these, sign here, tell me your bank account, and while your at it, remember everyone you love is dead. Have a nice death"


--------------------
DFTBA Dont forget to be awesome

:mindblown:

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InvisibleSL28
Psilonaut

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PeaceLove]
    #16440357 - 06/26/12 12:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I talked to her on the phone this morning--it's the first time she's really been with-it enough to use the phone. During visits her mom shushes me and scowls whenever I try to help S. understand why she "feels" someone close to her, or her own self has died. I was able to talk to her about the things everyone on this forum has been telling me and relate everyones experiences to her. I was able to tell her that what she experienced during her trip was very normal and actually healthy if handled correctly. I was then able to talk to her about the "ego death" and that her feelings of death are all rooted in that experience, and really the only death was a temporary shattering of the ego. I could almost see the lights going off in her head when I explained these things to her. Her mom does not allow me to talk about any of this "philosophical mumbo-jumbo" during visits because she thinks it will confuse and disturb S.--I get very frustrated. By being able to pass the encouragement and knowledge from everyone here, I think I was able to fast-track her mentally into sorting things out in her head. Thank you everyone.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28] * 2
    #16440406 - 06/26/12 12:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, just lay off.

That shit you are whispering to her is scary.  It is mumbo-jumbo philosophical bullshit, her mom is right.  All I know is that if I had you whispering that shit to me when I had my psychotic break over a decade ago, I'd have fucking gone nuttier.

She needs structure, format, right and wrong, good and bad, simple fucking ideas to get back to normal.  Just fucking lay off with the bullshit.  I know your world is fucking shattered right now too.  But it doesn't sound you are helping much more than the credentialed morons.  Too bad she just can't go home to her bed and have loved ones around to comfort her.

And it sucks that there's the conflict between you and her parents.  They believe you broke their daughter and all you do is care about her.  I'd step back from this one for a while.  If her relationship with her parents is strong and positive, let them heal her.  They may know how better than you.  My mom healed me.  Maternal and paternal love may be more nourishing than what you have to offer right now.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflineSaint Marcus
Stranger
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Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 765
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440466 - 06/26/12 12:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

O god...not Joemolloy  :trippingsheens:

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Offlinexzylocybin
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Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 2,304
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16440475 - 06/26/12 12:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thats great that you were able to explain things to her, It's too bad  her mother had to be involved and is'nt accepting of the things you are trying to say to her, but just know that they are right, it sounds like from what you said that S is starting to understand the trip and now that you explained things to her she will be able to reflect on them herself and see them as the truth that they are. I'm very glad that she seems to be doing better, this will probably be an experience that she grows from though it is very difficult for her now. The brightest light comes after the darkest night, I know firsthand :smile:

Don't listen to Joemolloy he is iether a troll or just plain wrong.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: xzylocybin]
    #16440495 - 06/26/12 12:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Listen, you'll get all sorts of advice in the big world here.  From trippy kids to old dickwads like me.  There's a lot truth in my words.  For me, you would have been doing me a big disservice.  For her, I don't know.  Something to consider.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440509 - 06/26/12 12:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Dude, just lay off.

That shit you are whispering to her is scary.  It is mumbo-jumbo philosophical bullshit, her mom is right.  All I know is that if I had you whispering that shit to me when I had my psychotic break over a decade ago, I'd have fucking gone nuttier.

She needs structure, format, right and wrong, good and bad, simple fucking ideas to get back to normal.  Just fucking lay off with the bullshit.  I know your world is fucking shattered right now too.  But it doesn't sound you are helping much more than the credentialed morons.  Too bad she just can't go home to her bed and have loved ones around to comfort her.

And it sucks that there's the conflict between you and her parents.  They believe you broke their daughter and all you do is care about her.  I'd step back from this one for a while.  If her relationship with her parents is strong and positive, let them heal her.  They may know how better than you.  My mom healed me.  Maternal and paternal love may be more nourishing than what you have to offer right now.




i dont know... from what he said it sounds like he's just explaining that the ideas of death were all part of an experience and in her head. sounds pretty reasonable to me. she needs to know its not real. that she's not broken permanently. that she has the ability to move out of it

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16440518 - 06/26/12 12:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

And the frames and references in which he is making that apparent to her is what bothers me.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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