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How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol?
    #1631879 -

I want to make a few vials so all you need is a drop or two to be dosed. I don't really know how to go about doing so. Anyone ever try this. If so, How?

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: Rudiger420] * 1
    #1631940 -

You'd need a really pure sample to do this and the liquid would have to be a bit acidic. Wouldn't be possible with just an alcohol extraction, and I'm not sure if you could do it at all. You need a lot more psilocybin to get high than acid and it's not as soluble.

As for the alcohol extraction, this has been posted a lot, but here's a repost of mine:

(I'm sure there has been something else written but I don't feel like searching)

Here is a method that will work:

Take tissue (mycelium or fruitbodies) and dry them and pulverize them a bit. Throw into a blender and add enough methanol or vinegar to cover it 3 times. Blend on a normal speed until the pieces are extremely small, but you should still be able to see individual pieces. Let this sit covered in a glass jar (do not use plastic with methanol, it will get destroyed) for 12-24 hrs, preferrably 24, shaking well occationally. Once it is done sitting, filter the liquid through a metal coffee filter and save the liquid. At this point you can take the remaining tissue from your first extraction and extract it again, using the same procedure. Discard the tissue after you are done extracting it.

Save all the liquid and put it into a shallow container that has a lot of surface area. I have found those glass baking dishes to work very well. Let it sit and evaporate; if you blow a fan over it, it will speed this up. Once it is all evaporated you should be left with a tan-coloured solid residue. This is your end product and should have a good amount of psilocybin in it; put it in gel caps and eat, or whatever you will.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: Rudiger420]
    #1631979 -


To answer your question, you wont be able to have dose sized drops. LSD is acive at the microgram level, 50mics is .000050. Psilocybin is acive in the milligram level, 50mg is .050. So that's a big difference in the chem to water ration.

Since I dont think you can find methanol, this way is easier..

Grind up your dry shrooms, at least a few doses is good(half ounce).

Put about 100ml of everclear 190 proof into a beaker or other heat resistant glass. Now heat some water in a pan to just below boiling and either hold the beaker in the water or rig up a sort of double boiler so you dont have to hold it. Then when the everclear starts to boil add the shrooms in.

Now let it sit for about an hour, it should still be warm. When an hour goes by strain the liquid through a coffee flter or something like it and squeeze out all the alcohol. Now soak and filter 2 more times with new boiling everclear.

Combine liquids and use a double boiler and a fan to evaporate it down to about 50ml or so. Now you let it cool to room temperature and you should see crystals forming. Then put it in the fridge for a few ours and you'll get a bit more crystals. Now while it's still cold pour off the liquid to leave the crystals. There may still be some goodies in the liquid you just poured off so dont throw it away.

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #1631989 -

Methanol:

http://www.hiperfuels.com

I don't reccomend ethanol. I also don't reccomend using heat; it's very dangerous, isn't neccesary and breaks down the compounds you want to extract.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

Edited by micro (06/13/03 06:15 PM)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1634237 -

The melting point of the goods is around 170 degrees celcius, ethyl alcohol boils at 75 degrees celcuis. The point of heating the alcohol is to make the psilocybin more soluable in the alcohol, the heat wont break it down at such a low temp.

Here's a link to Ask Shulgin where a guy gets crystals with ethanol.

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #1634424 -

There was a recent thread posted regaurding this very thing perhaps a month or two ago.

Anno pointed us in the right direction, and the results of our research suprised me. Do a search :smile: Worth it.


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1634579 -

1. The melting point has nothing to do with anything; melting a compound doesn't destroy it. There are other factors here such as enzymes present, and yes, I think heat can destroy the compounds to some extent if they will be sitting for a while. 45 C is what is recommended, but is not necessary, at all; the alkaloids extract fine at R.T. in 18-24 hours so this is the best way to do things, IMO. Do you ever hear about people here drying their mushrooms in a hot oven? Probably not very often, because it's not a very good idea when you could just dessicate them with no heat. Its fine if you're making tea and drinking it right away, but I wouldn't do it if you're keeping it for long periods of time.

2. Please, again, don't tell people to boil their alcohol; this is very dangerous and could result in someone lighting their house/apartment on fire.

3. Yes, aqueous ethanol is bad; it extracts the enzymes which dephosphorylize psilocybin. It has been proven though; I'm not just talking out of my ass. But don't take my word for it:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_journal1.shtml

4. This was posted a little while back, as stated, so I'm sure you could do a search....

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

Edited by micro (06/15/03 04:50 AM)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1634584 -

Oh, by the way, the abstract of the article in the link I posted above explains Dr. Shulgin's results.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1634610 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=1469546&Forum=Forum4&Words=extraction&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=1463202&Search=true#Post1469546


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1634613 -

The efficiency of 70% ethanol is talking about extracting *psilocin*, and the results are incorrect. The reason those higher results for *psilocin* were obtained is due to enzymatic dephosphorilization of psilocybin -> psilocin due to more enzymes being extracted in the aqueous ethanol.

This is all in the Erowid link I posted above.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1635224 -

>1. The melting point has nothing to do with anything; melting a compound doesn't >destroy it. There are other factors here such as enzymes present, and yes, I >think heat can destroy the compounds to some extent if they will be sitting for a >while.

Melting point has a lot to do with soluability. And you say you "think" heat can destroy the alkaliods if they sit long enough, well not at such low temperatures like 45 degrees celcius, and if you're worried about the alkaloids sitting in the alcohol for a long time, well this only takes about 4 hours or so to do. Also the enzymes only break psilocybin into psilocin, and the alcohol preserves it so there isnt much of a problem.

>45 C is what is recommended, but is not necessary, at all; the alkaloids extract >fine at R.T. in 18-24 hours so this is the best way to do things, IMO.

well there is not much of a difference when using room temp, but heating assists the forming of crystals early on in the extraction and also helps soluability. But now why would you want to wait 18-24 hours when you can do it in 4-6 hours?

>Do you ever hear about people here drying their mushrooms in a hot oven? >Probably not very often, because it's not a very good idea when you could just >dessicate them with no heat. Its fine if you're making tea and drinking it right >away, but I wouldn't do it if you're keeping it for long periods of time.

That's different than extracting, also if you put your shrooms strait into a dessicant chamber they will rot, you have to fan dry first. And no matter how you dry them you will loose some potency. And the tea, another good example of how heat helps the extraction :smirk:

And dont worry about people lighting there houses on fire, if they did it would be a result of there own stupidity.

(From the link)
>In contrast to these results only the extracts of P. cubensis and P. cyanescens >showed a significant enzymatic activity b y using acetic acid as solvent.

So if you're worried about the enzymes why are you recomending vinigar? Also the link doesnt show results  with just ethyl alcohol. In the Ask Shulgin link I gave the guy was using a soxhlet extractor and got crystals right away because of the hot ethanol he used.

I dont care what extraction you do, whatever works. As for me I'll stick with the ethanol extraction because it works for me and pure ethanol is a lot easier for me to find than pure methanol.

I didnt want this to turn into an arguement but apperantly you did, I just want you to know it's cool between us, I dont want to start shit.

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #1635424 -

You might want to reread my posts more carefully, and the link.  It's the enzymes present in the biomass that destroy the compounds (and no the alcohol does not prevent their degredation, reread the link;) are you saying that enzymes are not more active at higher heats?  Vinegar and anhydrous methanol do not extract these enzymes nearly as much as AQUEOUS SOLUTIONS OF ALCOHOL (such as everclear, as you suggested.)  As for *anhydrous* ethanol, I've seen no conclusive data either way, but I would imagine oxidation to take place much more easily in solution with ch3ch2oh than ch3oh (since it gives twice the energy from oxidizing carbon that methanol and is only 1.4 times as heavy.)  Your way will work, just not as well and it won't keep as long.  As to HOW long, there's no way for me to know that.  And yes, I do worry about people burning their houses down. :wink:

Why not do things the right way?

Sidenote on the quote you cited:

"Additionally, a high activity of enzymes of the phosphatase type could be detected in these aqueous solutions from all species. In contrast to these results only the extracts of P. cubensis and P. cyanescens showed a significant enzymatic activity b y using acetic acid as solvent. In these cases psilocybin was completely dephosphorylated to psilocin by heating the acid extracts and no baeocystin could be detected in P. cyanescens."

1st sentance states that "high activity of enzymes of the phosphatase type could be detected in these aqueous solutions from all species."  Yeah, I guess anhydrous is the way to go, but I guess you're right; vinegar is almost as bad for cubensis (however I would assume not as much since the enzymes are prolly pretty similar.)  Note what it says about heat, though: "In these cases psilocybin was completely dephosphorylated to psilocin by heating the acid extracts."

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

Edited by micro (06/15/03 04:35 PM)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1635578 -

>You might want to reread my posts more carefully, and the link. It's the enzymes >present in the biomass that destroy the compounds (and no the alcohol does not >prevent their degredation, reread the link;) are you saying that enzymes are not >more active at higher heats?

No I dont want to read that link again. The enzymes only turn psilocybin to psilocin, which in the end your brain does anyway, the enzymes dont destroy the compound. And alcohol is a preservative, what does that mean to you? I dont care about enzymes, I'm happy with my psilocin.

>Vinegar and anhydrous methanol do not extract these enzymes nearly as much >as AQUEOUS SOLUTIONS OF ALCOHOL (such as everclear, as you suggested.)

But like I said, I dont care about enzymes, and when you use methanol you have to wait longer, and I like faster.

>As for *anhydrous* ethanol, I've seen no conclusive data either way, but I would >imagine oxidation to take place much more easily in solution with ch3ch2oh than >ch3oh (since it gives twice the energy from oxidizing carbon that methanol and is >only 1.4 times as heavy.)

Well that's your opinion, and my opinion is that you're no chemist. Besides I dont need to worry about oxidation because I only extract when I'm planning on consuming, so I dont wait long to eat it.

>Your way will work, just not as well and it won't keep as long.

Bull shit, if I get all of the alkaloids in the end and I dont need to keep it long what's the problem?

>Why not do things the right way?

If I get what I want in the end then wouldnt that be the right way?

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: psychopsilocyber]
    #1635604 -

> I'm happy with my psilocin.

Sorry, I assumed you knew how easily psilocin breaks down. It is very succeptable to oxidation.

> and my opinion is that you're no chemist

No, I'm not, but pretty close. And yes, I do get paid for figuring stuff like that out.

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote, you may very well be correct; if you are eating it right away it might not make a very significant difference. If I were doing this, though, I'd prolly make tea, as it is quicker, but that's IMO.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

Edited by micro (06/15/03 05:21 PM)

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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: micro]
    #1635727 -

>Sorry, I assumed you knew how easily psilocin breaks down. It is very >succeptable to oxidation.

Yes i did know that :tongue:


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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? *DELETED* [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1635798 -

Post deleted by cerealrat

Reason for deletion:  


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Re: How do I extract psilocybin with alcohol? [Re: Rudiger420]
    #1642997 -

ive asked this question before and have recieved little info on where to find everclear 190 proof ..anyone know where to get it in canada?...thanks,,


--------------------
"Life is one BIG road with Lots of signs. So when you riding through the ruts, don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy. Don't bury your thoughts, put your vision to reality "

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