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InvisibleSL28
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Complete psychotic break of friend
    #16429628 - 06/24/12 09:50 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I am terrified. More terrified now than I have been of anything in my near 3 decades of life. Let me give some background and then start from the beginning. I am originally from the SW Gulf Coast of Florida and had better access to psilocybin mushrooms than alcohol, so during my adolescence I ate mushrooms at a pretty regular rate while others would binge drink. Considering we were able to fill a garbage bag during the wet times of the year and we'd reduce them all to a tea, I'd surmise that the dry dose would occasionally surpass 12g dry. Trips would last about 12 hours sometimes a bit longer, but even the bad trips I found manageable because I was able to hold on to the obvious truth that I was under the effects of a drug and that this effect would inevitably wear off. Summary: I am not a stranger to psychedelics and have experienced them with many different people from different backgrounds.

Fast forward 15 years. My girlfriend of a year had never had a psychedelic experience and I thought it would be a good and healthy experience for her to have one at least one time. Since we enjoy gardening and watching things grow, I thought it would be fun and safer to grow them ourselves than purchase them from some unknown source. We grew them, dried them, and waited for a day when both of us would be freed of any responsibilities so no stress would interfere with the trip. I STRONGLY emphasized to her that 'mushrooms draw from your sub-conscious, any insecurities you have, any imbalance of emotions, anything negative you feel, any unhappiness you have with life will be multiplied one hundred-fold. Psilocybin mushrooms can be much stronger than other psychedelics. If there is anything stressing you right now, or anything you feel negative about, you should not take the shrooms.' She reflected for  bit and said she felt fine with regard to all those things. So, I started her off with 0.5g to make sure there would be no negative physical effects--even portabellas are poisonous to a few select people. She felt little to nothing from the dose. The next free day that arose for us, I told her what I had told her the time before, I weighed out a 1.7g dose for both of us. It had mild effects for her still and she said she felt a bit more lively, but nothing serious.

A couple weeks later I upped the dose to a full eighth (about 3.4g). 2 hours pass, she goes through the usual motions. And then a switch that should never have been flipped gets flipped. She begins repeating the same 6 or seven statements over and over, re-ordering them. "We're not going to kill ourselves." I reply in the affirmative, "Killing ourselves would really suck for us, and would make everyone close to us very sad. It's not even worth thinking about. Look at the sky, doesn't that cloud look like a horse trotting?" She looks up, and is momentarily distracted. Then she begins again. "Women are intuition." "Men are order." "If we go to sleep now, we can wake up at eight and not take the mushrooms." "M., we need to go to sleep!" "It's all so beautiful!" "M.! Don't let there be a God!" "But there has to be a God." "And if there's a God then that means men are order." "M.! We need to go to sleep!" "Listen to me! Women are intuition, so if men are order then we did not take the mushrooms and we'll wake up at 8 o'clock." Her emotions swing wildly from sorrow to elation and everything in between.  This goes on for 4 hours. I continually try and break her cycle of thought with sensory stimulation and try and draw from elements in the real world. None of it works. I watch my watch and wait anxiously for the six hour mark, by which time the psilocybin should be making its way out of her system. The time passes and she levels out. But this is far from the end.


Edited by SL28 (06/24/12 11:43 AM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429652 - 06/24/12 10:10 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Afterwards I talk to her about her experience. She is rational and explains it to me. "It was like I had slipped into the world of death and I was trapped. And this world was like Pacman, if I left one side I would come out the other; it was an endless and unbreakable cycle. And the fact that I was in the world of death meant that there had to be a God, and I did not like the idea that there is God." I kept talking to her about and repeating the simple facts that everything she experienced was induced by the mushrooms, it was purely chemical and did not open her mind to a second dark world, that everything she could feel, hear, touch, smell, and see was real. That she is real. Then she burst out crying "I didn't tell you, but I talked to my mom about grandma today. She's 91 and she's going to die soon, I don't want her to die." Fuck. I tell her "This was and is important information." She said she hadn't thought of it at the time.

The late evening passes and she goes to sleep. A full night's sleep, I assume, since I fell asleep after her and woke up before her. She passes the next day, normal, and says the experience has her thinking about a lot of things. I tell her that a strong background in logic and philosophy helped me get through my most trying trips. She has never had either after receiving a high school degree and 4 years of college. I leave for City Hall after we have our morning coffee and trod through the bureaucratic mud for the paperwork and signatures needed to start our business. I come home, talk to her about the government experience and she smiles. I'm carefully monitoring her reactions to things. I told her we should eat dinner with her parents. I wanted to see how she interacted with her mother. Over dinner, her mom offers different foods, a lot of times the same dish 3 or 4 times in a row. My fiance got irritated with her overbearing mom, so all was good. As long as her mom still got her frustrated everything would be fine.
That night she did not sleep.


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429670 - 06/24/12 10:20 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by Lucid Dreaming (06/24/12 11:37 AM)


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InvisibleSL28
Psilonaut

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429728 - 06/24/12 10:48 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

The next day she was irritable, as would be expected. Another night passes, no sleep. She keeps me awake, and keeps talking to me about her philosophical musings. I tell her, "You did not sleep last night so it is very, very important you get a full night's sleep tonight, especially considering everything you have been through. Your brain needs to defrag. Try and visualize the pond you love so much. See every detail. See the ducks swimming, the lotuses blooming, the log with the turtles sunbathing." She is not able to visualize it. I should have taken her to the hospital right then and there. Both of us are sleep deprived. Another day and night passes with no sleep. That night was much worse. 1am swings around and a familiar refrain returns. "M., we can't kill ourselves." "M., why did you kill me? You killed my soul when you gave me the mushrooms. Why did you kill me?" "It's alright, woman is intuition, so there is a God." "Man is reason, so you have to play your role." "It's all so beautiful." I speak, "S., we need to go to the ER. You have not slept in nearly 3 days and psychosis is setting in." She will not go, "No, we can't go to the hospital! There is someplace we should be. You have to remember, promise you won't forget me. I'm dead, so promise you'll keep me inside you always." I cannot get her to the hospital, I keep her in bed and try every home remedy to get her to relax. Herbal tea, a bubble bath, music she finds relaxing. She closes her eyes and I think it's all working and she'll finally sleep. With her eyes closed, "If I go to sleep, will I die? You have to remember M., it is very important you remember." I cry. I haven't slept in nearly 2 days and the person I love most in this world is losing her mind and it may be my fault. I tell her, "You will not die and I will keep you safe. Just get to sleep and your mind will be able to get everything in order." She gets a bit worn out by 5am and sleeps maybe 2 hours. She wakes up and seems mildly more lucid, so I decide to run to the store for a sleep aid and some fruits for easy-to-digest calories. I come home 20 minutes later. I see the shutters on the window half ripped-down and I know what is happening. I walk in, S. has a gleeful smile, "Don't be upset, it will all make sense!" I reply, trying my best to not cry, "We need to see a doctor. You have not slept in over 3 days and it is extremely dangerous. I love you, if you won't do this for yourself, do it for me because I care about you." She "has some place more important" she has to be. Attempts to take her result in panic attacks. Out of the corner of my eye I see she has written fragmented, mis-spelled sentences all over the wall in permanent marker. I take 2 deep breathes, close my eyes, and find my center. I must be strong. I must not add stress to S.'s situation. It's 4pm, I call her parents, hoping they can talk into going to the ER. She tells them it's my fault, "M. fed me copious amounts of mushrooms, he killed me." I have to breath deeply again, I cannot cry. Her mom threatens to sue me and my family, I tell her that  S. is more important and we have to focus on her. S. is 24, so I don't see how she would sue me. We calm her down and get her sedated with home remedies. She gets 4 hours of sleep and wakes up the next more mildly lucid. She looks at the wall and doesn't understand why she did it. This is a good sign.


Edited by SL28 (06/24/12 11:27 AM)


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Offlinebishlap
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429743 - 06/24/12 10:52 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I love those type of confusing mental trips,and the feeling that your just now receiving information never considered.

I don't think I have ever tripped and not considered or at least thought about death.

I don't talk about it aloud anymore, because it scares those around me but I'm not suicidal, the fact that death looms intrigues me.

how was she feeling the next day, I usually hace a great afterglow after a mental trip.


--------------------
"If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna


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InvisibleSL28
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 35
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429812 - 06/24/12 11:09 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

For the rest of the day I try to get her to get more sleep. She can't sleep, her mind will not let her rest. Her mom and I take her to a walk-in clinic hoping for some sleep-aid. The nurse comes in and lays the load on me for feeding her mushrooms. The doctor then comes in and tells me how stupid it was to do mushrooms, her mom glowers at me. This will become the routine for the next 3 days. More doctors, more burdens, more speeches, more re-enforcement of the S.'s assertion "You killed me." But I can't cry, it isn't my right and I refuse to add any more stress to the situation. We get her to go to the ER, we wait an hour and a half in the chaotic waiting room, see a nurse, (I get the talk--let's assume this happens every time I mention an new person), her vitals are taken, we get taken to a room, wait 3 more hours, I tell the nurses that this is stressing S., and if she gets upset it will not be good. 30 more minutes pass, we finally get taken to a room, we see new nurse, vitals are taken, blood and urine samples are taken, we wait another hour. I again remind the nurses that S. is very unhappy and it would be best if they gave her something so she could finally get to sleep. At this point it has been 4 and a half days without real sleep. They ignore me. 30 minutes pass and she gives out a scream surpassing that of a banshee. I'm able to calm her down and tell the nurses that it is very important we get her something to help her calm down and sleep. We still have to wait for the tests. I tell them, if you won't give her something, we will not be able to control her when she gets really pissed. They ignore me. 15 minutes pass, what I said happened, they strapped her down and did not sedate her. I cry. This  inhumane treatment and the lack of anyone listening to her is hurting her psychologically as much as the sleep deprivation. With S.'s second alarm we were ejected from the room and sent to the general waiting area where we waited another 2 hours. S. was transferred to the Behavioral Health wing. I only get 1 visiting hour a day and she has now been there for 2 days. This morning I wanted to take in some fresh raspberries (her favorite) and a newspaper so she could get back in touch with the outside world. I can't. She is getting worse. She pissed herself twice this morning and did not sleep. Knowing no one is watching I finally cry. I do not know if she will recover, but I'll be by her side as long as it takes.


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Offlinesearching
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429829 - 06/24/12 11:14 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I believe the lack of sleep is the cause of this and not the mushrooms. Although you guys do need to go to the hospital. You are doing a good job keeping yourself together. Stay strong for the both of you.

I really hope this isn't schizophrenia setting in. If it is then yeah the mushrooms brought it out, but may have surfaced eventually anyway.  Get her some sleep anyway you can. Give her the sleep aid if you have to but don't let her take any other drugs, especially weed or psychs obviously.


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InvisibleSL28
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Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429840 - 06/24/12 11:16 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I should mention that no one had any interest in what I had to say after I said we did mushrooms. It does not seem like pertinent information to the professionals that S. went without sleep for over 4 days. No one in the behavioral unit ever asked me a thing, though it is vitally important that her psychotic break is a result of her believing in a second reality--one of endless death. I should also mention that the attending doctor insisted I gave her K2. I had never even heard of that. S. and I don't drink more than 1 alcoholic drink a day, VERY rarely smoke pot, and do not use any other substance. We do not have a need for any prescription drugs. We exercise regularly.


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Offlinebishlap
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16429848 - 06/24/12 11:19 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

damn, shoulda got some tylenol pm and avoided the hospital, only worse place to be would be jail.
a lot of people that go to the hospital for bad hallucinogen trip end up in the mental ward on worse man made drugs.

I can't believe they wont sedate her, being awake for 3 days will fuck with your head and emotions far more than mushrooms.


--------------------
"If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: bishlap]
    #16429886 - 06/24/12 11:30 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Yeeeesh! hindsight is 20/20 but slipping her a sedative or a benzo and getting 8 to 24 hours of sleep in her would POSSIBLY have helped a lot.

Hopefully the "professionals" will do something that will get her sleeping and she'll start to recover. 

Having babysat more than one 'bad trip' and having had some very psychotic episodes myself on psychs, I'm no longer willing to dose anyone else and I'm hesitant to even trip with anyone else unless they are really experienced.  Its just too much responsibility.

We'll keep her in our thoughts and prayers and send good vibes and all that good stuff.  Hang in there man, this too shall pass.


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: gornyhuy]
    #16429919 - 06/24/12 11:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Deleting my story, I though I was sharing a similiar experience but really i'm getting in the way of a important read, sorry. I really do believe that 2 nights of rest and she will be a new person. Please keep us updated.


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: gornyhuy] * 1
    #16429928 - 06/24/12 11:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

One more thought... just in case no one has said this to you yet, or if you haven't said it to yourself:

This is not your fault.  It sounds like you did everything carefully and correctly.  Reactions to psychedelics are sometimes totally unpredictable, you just never really know what you are going to get. 

My brother-in-law and I tripped together dozens of times with no issues, and then one time on a very low dose he had a total freak out and I had to keep him calm and keep talking him down for 5 hours straight.  He hasn't touched them since.


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InvisibleSL28
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Registered: 05/12/12
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: gornyhuy]
    #16429989 - 06/24/12 11:52 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I know it's not my fault, but I know I am far from blameless. Part of her rant when I am around is that I killed her. That is really hard to hear and internalize. I have to remind her that I will always be there for her and I will never miss a visit. I have to be stronger than her parents or her doctors and bear everyone's burden--it feels better for everyone to be able to pinpoint a single source for the tragedy and I may as well be that point.


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430009 - 06/24/12 11:55 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

When you guys at the shrooms all three times, was she hesitant, and you kinda pushed her towards it? After the first trip was she excited to do them again, after the second trip was she excited about the 3rd? I'm just curious as to why she would put the blame on you.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: gornyhuy]
    #16430030 - 06/24/12 12:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I had a psychosis for nearly two weeks when I was younger from LSD.  Hospitals and doctors were utterly clueless.  Some of them thought I was faking it.  Thankfully my parents never admitted me to any hospital but kept me at home and kept me calm by talking and being compassionate and patient.  Eventually my mind came back.  Hopefully despite the traumatic bullshit she's experiencing in that hospital, she'll gradually get her sanity back.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16430100 - 06/24/12 12:16 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

It was something she was interested in trying, she helped me grow them. I wouldn't say she was excited--more hesitant, respectful, and curious. Mushrooms can dig-up things about yourself you did not know, and I think the correct way to feel about them is hesitant and respectful.

And I am very worried about the hospital. Psychologically, I think love is very important for that kind of healing and only being able to give her that attention 1 hour a day when she used to get it at least 14 hours a day is a kind of starvation. The only reason I wanted to take her was to get some prescription-strength sleep aids. Now there are doctors in her head--the head doctor talked to her parents and I overheard her saying "The main thing we want S. to get out of this is that drugs are bad." This worried me, not because I disagree with the statement, but because it completely ignores any underlying problems she has. Drugs and drugs alone caused the problem in their eyes, and I gave them to her.


Edited by SL28 (06/24/12 12:17 PM)


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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16430110 - 06/24/12 12:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

You ruined someones mind, OP.

All in the name of trying out a drug


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16430113 - 06/24/12 12:18 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

At a boy joe!


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Nimpo]
    #16430236 - 06/24/12 12:51 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I know and acknowledge this Nimpo. The main reason I posted was to hopefully hear stories from people that have gone through similar situations and how they turned out. If the break wasn't caused by the mushrooms, the situation could be very dire.


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OfflinePeaceLove
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430458 - 06/24/12 01:46 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Imagine how much greater this would turn out if doctors and nurses and society were properly informed about mushrooms and psychadelics. Or sleep deprevation for this matter. Or if they truely knew anything about people, they would listen to you, the one who's been caring for her and knows what's been going on. Strapped down to a bed in the hospitol is the last place I would want to be during a psychotic break. Friends, family, nature, and some sleep aid sounds to be the best cure. I wish you luck man!

As for Nimpo... do you usually kick a person when they are down and asking for help? Obviously the op is thinking of these things already and doesn't need some asshole from the internet putting him down. He's reaching out for help and support, not to be cool. And its not like he was like "hey, lets get fucked up, eat all these, you will be fine". And the woman is 24! Pretty sure she's fully capable of saying "no, I don't want to". If anything she should have been more smart an not taken them after each time the op tells her of the dangers of taking them with negative thoughts in her brain. And maybe the op should have given her 2.5 grams before doubling the 1.7 gram dose. But still,he had no way of knowing this was gonna happen and blaming him and making him feel worse than he does is strait inhumane and counterproductive. Dont you think watching the one you love slip out of sanity is enough? Plus, he's gotten enough lectures already.


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:mindblown:


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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430470 - 06/24/12 01:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

The rational mind is long gone at 12g dry, you wouldn't know you were under the effects of a drug, but you claim you did. :thumbdown:

Quote:

I STRONGLY emphasized to her that 'mushrooms draw from your sub-conscious, any insecurities you have, any imbalance of emotions, anything negative you feel, any unhappiness you have with life will be multiplied one hundred-fold.




This isn't true, it's set and setting. A guided trip can be safe and therapeutic for psychological baggage.

Quote:

I kept talking to her about and repeating the simple facts that everything she experienced was induced by the mushrooms, it was purely chemical and did not open her mind to a second dark world




This contradicts the last statement.


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430486 - 06/24/12 01:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I know and acknowledge this Nimpo. The main reason I posted was to hopefully hear stories from people that have gone through similar situations and how they turned out. If the break wasn't caused by the mushrooms, the situation could be very dire.



Wtf? You didn't ruin anyone's mind. This situation sucks, i don't think you guys should of upped the dose to 3.5. 2 grams is plenty for noobies. I'm currently fruiting a cake of cubes and am about to introduce my best friend (fiance) to them for her first psych experience ( except one experience with salvia that put her in an alternative universe supposedly ). This story makes me hesitant, I must admit. But I've done them a few time never superseding 2 grams, and though trips can seem difficult, Ive never had a psychotic break....

I'm so sorry that your dealing with this OP. It's not your fault, though I understand how you can feel responsible. But in the end she is a legal adult who made her own decisions... You should make this clear to the doctors and her parents. My fiancée parents are assholes and I could totally imagine what it's like to be in your shoes... I hope your fiance gets that much needed nights rest and can get passed the nonsense the doctors are feeding her... I'm sorry man.


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PeaceLove]
    #16430507 - 06/24/12 01:59 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
You ruined someones mind, OP.

All in the name of trying out a drug




Quote:

PeaceLove said:

As for Nimpo... do you usually kick a person when they are down and asking for help?




Yeah, fuck you Nimpo.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430508 - 06/24/12 01:59 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

She needs a familiar environment, her parents and enjoying distractions that do not remind her of death (unlike an hospital). As you noticed, sleep is also very important. Obviously the doctors there are clueless anyway, so it would be wise to talk to her parents about getting her out, although this is probably a very tough thing to do.

Her world was shattered. Time to build it up again.


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Stand up. You're not alone.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin] * 1
    #16430547 - 06/24/12 02:10 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Another thing to consider is, crying is perfectly natural and holding it back and just overstressing about this in a major negative sense is gonna cause YOU to have a psychotic break! Don't forget that you can't help her if you don't take care of yourself. Stay strong, and there are people on here with hearts who care to offer possitive information. Later on, once you guys get past this and things clear up, then you can reflect on the things you shouldn't of done. But beating yourself up is not productive and only hurts the situation. You seem to have a strong mind and probably know this, judging from what you have written, but it doesn't hurt to have someone else tell you it.


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Offlinehusmmoor
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430569 - 06/24/12 02:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:I'm so sorry that your dealing with this OP. It's not your fault, though I understand how you can feel responsible. But in the end she is a legal adult who made her own decisions... You should make this clear to the doctors and her parents. My fiancée parents are assholes and I could totally imagine what it's like to be in your shoes... I hope your fiance gets that much needed nights rest and can get passed the nonsense the doctors are feeding her... I'm sorry man.



x2

Thanks for sharing what happened here SL28. I really hope everything works out for your girlfriend.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PeaceLove] * 4
    #16430600 - 06/24/12 02:25 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

You didn't kill her soul. Her soul cannot be destroyed. The drug caused a thought loop based on the realization of the truth/untruth of physical causality. Women are the intuitive and nurturing that which manifests life from causality. Men are the causality and enforce order over life. If the order is enforced over life to the point where intuition ceases, than life will no longer exist on this earth, because Love sustains life.


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"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16430859 - 06/24/12 03:22 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I know and acknowledge this Nimpo. The main reason I posted was to hopefully hear stories from people that have gone through similar situations and how they turned out. If the break wasn't caused by the mushrooms, the situation could be very dire.




don't listen to nimpo. that's a shitty thing for someone to say. im not going to say mushrooms can't cause psychosis... but given that psychosis took a while to settle in it's probably not a direct result of the mushrooms. she took it at a HORRIBLE time considering her grandmas death is around the corner and the bad trip probably just jiggled up ideas about death in her brain that prevented her from sleeping. im no doctor, but like gornyhuy said, a benzo might do some good. it can be used to abort trips so i'm sure it may mellow her out of her psychotic state and allow her to sleep some and relax.

anyways best of luck to you man, longterm psychosis from a single trip isn't too common so chances are she'll snap out of it. hopefully within the week but certainly within a few months at MOST would be my guess :shrug:


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OfflineRen
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #16430992 - 06/24/12 03:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

SL28,

Your story is really heart wrenching. Most importantly I must emphasize do not blame yourself. Whatever caused your gf to break had little or nothing to do with taking shrooms. Furthermore, you are responsible for you and she is responsible for herself, period. She is suffering from intense latent problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he parents have experience little glimpses of this behavior in the past (but they will never admit it now). Remember that shrooms do not leave lasting physical effects on the brain, especially after a few uses.

I expect that your gf will fluctuate for the next few days. I am very confident she will get to sleep and get back to her old self. However, after the physicians are finished it is imperative to get her to a psychologist. Her behavior is manifestation of some type of mental dilemma. This could be genetic and/or linked to a traumatic event (I imagine involving death and or god). You yourself do not have the tools to dig up the past and help her resolve these issues. Again, you could not prevent or have caused her breakdown - it was inevitable at some point.

Finally, protect your heart. This will be a trying time, but you will be stronger afterwards. As sad as it is to think, thank goodness this is happening now before you perhaps got married and started a family...

Best of luck!


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Ren]
    #16431021 - 06/24/12 04:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16431110 - 06/24/12 04:21 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

i cant imagine how horrible this situation must be for both of you. one time while on acid i got into a similiar thought loop and my gf at the time was also tripping hard, she thought i went crazy and started crying and freaking out, i in turn was convinced that i was crazy and was simply waiting for the guys in white coats to come bursting in and take me away, my worst trip to date. my point is that you handled this situation very well, and whether or not it seems like it at the moment you did ALOT of good by staying calm and collected, god only knows how it would have turned out if you broke down as well.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16431352 - 06/24/12 05:01 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for all the support. There was a visitation 2 hours ago and when I walked in she was talking into the phone, in a corner by herself. I look quizzically at the nurse and she says "Oh, don't worry, she's not talking to anyone. She's been doing that for about an hour." My first thought 'She didn't sleep last night, why the fuck is she not sleeping right now?' I hold back tears.

In the meeting room, her mom talks incessantly and treats her like an idiot. When I can get a word in, I speak frankly, and DO NOT treat her like she's insane. Everything she says makes sense if you understand where she's coming from. I listen to every word she says and repeat back to her things that don't make sense and work through them with her. Talking to someone like a baby when they are mentally crippled is like faking a limp with someone that is missing a leg. She slowly starts coming back around as the hour progresses, I shut her mom up and am able to get her to go to sleep. Then the hour is over, I have to leave, and know 15 minutes later she will be up and scared shitless.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16431689 - 06/24/12 06:03 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Hi, I'm extremely sorry to hear about this. I have a friend who went through drug induced psychosis fairly recently, although the situation was a little different. My friend was an avid pot smoker, who got into LSD and compulsively abused both drugs for quite a few months. The process was quite gradual, so it took a while for people to catch on, but eventually it got the point where he started noticeably losing his grip on reality. I think he went through 3 or 4 psychotic breaks, lasting a few days each, he came down from each of them, but went into the next break as soon as he got his hands on some weed. He also wasn't eating or sleeping very much, as he had convinced himself that it was completely unnecessary to do so. Luckily his parents didn't freak out (they had experimented with psychedelics in their youth), and the closest he got to a doctor was an alternative psychiatrist with a lot of experience treating people in similar cases. He wasn't prescribed anything, and he came back to normal pretty soon after he stopped smoking pot and dropping acid. I'm not sure how well this case relates to yours, since the psychosis you are describing is darkness related, and in my friends case he felt he was becoming illuminated and living in constant euphoria. What eventually convinced him that he was losing touch with reality was the fact that he could no longer communicate with anybody, and everybody was extremely worried and trying to help him.
Besides not sleeping or eating very much, his speech was complete word salad, and his thought processes were so completely abstract that they couldn't interpret anything that was happening around him.


I hope your gf gets through her problem soon. All I can say is, that feeling guilty right now is only going to be counterproductive, and the most important thing is for you, and her parents(!) to help her through this showing her unconditional love. She WILL get through this. The fact that she is not sleeping is probably a major influence on her mental state, I can't believe the doctors aren't giving her benzos. From what I gather, your behaviour through this whole ordeal has been admirable so far.

I sincerely hope she gets better soon..


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: sanx] * 1
    #16431871 - 06/24/12 06:46 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for that sanx. Glad to hear your friend got better. I talked to a friend of mine, who is a pediatric neurologist, and he agrees it's curious that they never took down her family medical history. My biggest fear is schizophrenia brought to the surface by stimulating the 5-HT serotonin receptors. But I'm not doctor, so I guess I'm talking out of my back side. I hope they help her sleep, and I hope the creepy psychologist isn't making her more uncertain of reality than she always is. I'm going to talk to her tonight about him and make sure he is not one of those sicko psychopathic psychiatrists that fucks with patients heads to observe 'interesting' results.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16431903 - 06/24/12 06:53 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

There seems to be a lack of stories relating to people dropping off the deep-end from one mushroom experience. "We're trying to flush out the mushrooms" is what the nurse told me today. I've always believed that psilocybin has a pretty short half life in the system. If this is so, it seems screwy and counter-productive. They are treating her like a crazy drug addict when she has never abused a substance in her life. I'm feeling more and more that I should have seen a friend about obtaining the necessary prescription pills to treat her insomnia and then gotten S. a therapist after her sleep became normal rather than taking her to the crazy world of corporate medicine. Perhaps I'll end up hating myself more for that than giving her access to the shrooms.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16432132 - 06/24/12 07:40 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I normally would say trust the doctors but this is a tough one... doctors don't know shit about these drugs generally. i guess tell the doctor to give her a benzo if they want to "flush the shrooms out" since that's what you normally do to abort trips. of course there's no shrooms to flush out but it may relax her a bit and bring her down from this.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16432179 - 06/24/12 07:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

When did you ingest the mushrooms? After 12 hours MAX there should not be any psilocin effects any more.
Have they given her any antipsychotics (e.g. Haloperidol) yet?
That would be standard procedure. She also needs to rest.


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Offlinexzylocybin
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16432470 - 06/24/12 09:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Someone who has never taken psychadelics before can get really freaked out by their first ego death, she did'nt know how to deal with it or what was happening so she freaked out and her brain explained it the only way it knew how, she thought her soul was gone but really her ego was just subsided for maybe the first time in her life, she had a temporary psychotic break because of this but I believe she will be fine with time once she can integrate her experience.

Some people (myself included) are more susceptible to psychotic breaks as a result of tripping, one time I had myself convinced that I had to die and was in fact dying during a trip and that my death would in some way help the world. After reflection (about a month) I could see that those thoughts were only my ego clinging to control and resisting the drug. You're wife will likely be fine she just needs to understand that these types of things can happen to some people who take psilocybin and that she should relax, know the thoughts she is having are only thoughts and not neccesarily true, eat, and get some damn sleep.

Taking her to the hospital or involving her parents will likely only freak her psyche out more, a therapist might be a good idea if the symptoms continue but sleep, food, and relaxing familiar surroundings with minimal stressors will likely have her back to normal soon. these are powerfull medicines that are at odds with our current ways of living and social conditioning, an uninitiated mind that likes control will have a hard time dealing with them.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16432484 - 06/24/12 09:10 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I expect that your gf will fluctuate for the next few days. I am very confident she will get to sleep and get back to her old self. However, after the physicians are finished it is imperative to get her to a psychologist. Her behavior is manifestation of some type of mental dilemma. This could be genetic and/or linked to a traumatic event (I imagine involving death and or god). You yourself do not have the tools to dig up the past and help her resolve these issues. Again, you could not prevent or have caused her breakdown - it was inevitable at some point.


I believe this:whathesaid: OP She obviously has some underlying emotional/ psychological issues that were present long before the moderate dosage of p. cubensis.

Just keep being there for her, it sounds like you may be her only ally in a sea of modern medical ignorance. Also, pray for her.....can't hurt. I just did.:peace:M


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16432538 - 06/24/12 09:21 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I am really sorry to hear what  you are experiencing. Honestly I know it probably doesn't matter to hear it but I feel u did absolutely everything u possibly could and you are doing your best. I can only imagine the torment and how much pain and burden u are carrying on your shoulders.

I have had a couple psychotic breaks myself and when a person doesn't sleep for that long it is always really bad news especially after a mind shattering psychedelic experience. I ALWAYS keep a few benzos on me in case of a bad trip.....As soon as I heard her starting to go in loops for more than 30 minutes I would have had her put a milligram of xanax under her tongue..

Also I can relate to how the doctors don't know shit about what is going on and want to blame it all on the drugs....has she ever had any issues with these type of things? Any mental problems like depression, anxiety, trauma (physical, sexual), manic depression anything that would be a type of precursor to this full psychotic break?

I think that it is very interesting that some of her thoughts r on the nature of the masculine and feminine as well as its relationship to God....Hmmm just makes me wonder about trying to discuss those particulars with her in hopes of laying a foundation of which she can establish a reality to navigate. just a thought

Also....sometimes on psychedelics the mind snaps.....and sometimes the only way to put it back together is to go back to this snapping point and try to mend it during another experience.....literally I have heard and known people that have experienced this....It is almost like state dependent learning.


Please keep us updated and I will be sending my love and positive energy to u both.


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #16432592 - 06/24/12 09:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

sometimes i feel like its the people that never have any experience with anxiety,depression,psychosis,mania, ect. that weather the worst to the psychedelic storm. Its really too bad this is all happening from some innocent psychedelic experimentation.

I'm sorry the doctors and her parents are taking it out on you, She is 24, she is old enough to make her own decisions. While you did make the shrooms available it seems like you took every safe step in doing them with her.

I also am deeply sorry she is now in the hospital, that is what i would currently be worried most about. They may try to put her on all sorts of anti psychotics and tricky medications that could end up complicating the situation.

One of my friends started to slowly go nuts. He did a lot of drugs though. But the last time he tripped was when i gave him mushrooms, and i think it really sped up the process, though he was definitely already way off. I tripped with him and kind of played into this idea of him being haunted by a succubus. Long story short he tried to knife his dad and is now in a mental institution. He's talking way to crazy for anyone to let him out at the moment, he might be in there for a long time. its sad.

This may seem odd to say but the thing that would probably help her most is to be out of society, somewhere rural, or in the wilderness. This is pretty much completely unrealistic to actually happen but going back to our roots as humans is just about the healthiest medication you can take.


Edited by Everything (06/24/12 09:39 PM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #16432635 - 06/24/12 09:44 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Update: Just went in for the second allowed visit today and S. had just come off of a 4 hour nap. She was pretty lucid, laughed at the thought of having a wedding in bath robes, and ate most of the fresh fruit I had brought in earlier. On the other hand, she's still violently grappling with thoughts of death. She ponders if sleep means death, if she is dead, if doing normal things will cause her to die, and if people and pets she cares about are dead. But, mostly lucid and many, many fewer non sequitur comments. I feel much better now than I did this morning.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16432643 - 06/24/12 09:47 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

We did the shrooms on Saturday, June 16th; over a week ago.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: xzylocybin]
    #16432656 - 06/24/12 09:50 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

xzylocybin,

I'm very worried that what you're saying is the case. I suppose something important to take from this is, if you're tripping with friends have a protocol for worst-case scenarios and get eachothers' backs if they occur. I should have had a sleep aid ready and I should have been prepared for what happened. If she had broken a leg, the ER would have been a good place to go. A broken mind, not so much.


Edited by SL28 (06/24/12 09:52 PM)


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16432691 - 06/24/12 09:58 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
xzylocybin,

I'm very worried that what you're saying is the case. I suppose something important to take from this is, if you're tripping with friends have a protocol for worst-case scenarios and get eachothers' backs if they occur. I should have had a sleep aid ready and I should have been prepared for what happened. If she had broken a leg, the ER would have been a good place to go. A broken mind, not so much.




Ya....but not a sleep aid...Benzos will do the trick. what the docs should of done is shot her with some thorazine and some ativan (IM)...that would knock her the fuck out for probably a day in a good way....I have been in the same mindset where I was afraid to sleep because I felt like I was going to die if I went to sleep. But the truth of the matter is she needs to be asleep.

I feel like u were responsible in introducing her to psychedelics.... u didn't start her on a large dose. U gradually, with her approval moved up in acceptable increments. U treated the situation responsibly... as u know psychedelics are very powerful things.....

What you have described leads me to believe that it is not schizophrenia bc the symptoms are not reminiscent of it....but remember what I said about having to go into state dependent learning to relearn and rewire the "broken" pathways. take it with a grain a salt. stay strong and focus on love


Edited by Saint Marcus (06/24/12 10:01 PM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16432709 - 06/24/12 10:01 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Baltimark and Saint Marcus,

I feel she does have some underlying psychological issues her mom classifies as "high-strung." On our first date, she talked about how she would like to be a hermit and doesn't like being around people. She's VERY sensitive with regard to all social interactions--the opposite of thick-skinned. If someone is careless in driving, the fact that someone would be inconsiderate will bother her for at least 10 or 15 minutes. She's also very sensitive to certain kinds of joking. When we used to work together, I came in one morning after a long night, groggy, and spoke quietly because I was tired. She had a hard time hearing me and asked if she was going deaf. I thought she was joking and I said, "You must be, I've been yelling at the top of my lungs all morning." This caused her to go into a fit of sobbing saying "I don't want to go deaf." On a related note, she had had little sleep the night before as well.

Those are just a few things that I have secretly worried about, but later dismissed as odd incidents.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #16432725 - 06/24/12 10:06 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, probably not schizo since her speech isn't fragmented and makes sense in its own way, even when she's not completely with-it. I had thought about suggesting a re-dose to see if we could sort things out, but if that went awry I think I would be a pariah. It would be great if there were specialist that studied and dealt with the mind and were educated enough to treat this stuff. I suppose it falls to this community since the medical field hasn't standardize a method of treating things like this.


Edited by SL28 (06/24/12 10:08 PM)


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16432750 - 06/24/12 10:16 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

There's probably therapists/psychologists out there that are of help. Seriously though, the great outdoors is very therapeutic. She will know she's not dead once she sees a beautiful desert sunrise!


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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Everything]
    #16432850 - 06/24/12 10:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

There are still underground therapists using psychedelics, and many more who would understand this process. You aren't going to find them in a hospital because in the last 20 years the "medical model" of mental problems became trendy, and it says that what she is experiencing is a result of biology.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16433327 - 06/25/12 12:06 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

OP's gf has now experienced ego death. She feels it is his fault because she is identifying him, man, as order.

I have a feeling OP may be slightly controlling, just based on reading through these posts. I could be wrong, however.

I hope you find rest.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16433338 - 06/25/12 12:08 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
Baltimark and Saint Marcus,

I feel she does have some underlying psychological issues her mom classifies as "high-strung." On our first date, she talked about how she would like to be a hermit and doesn't like being around people. She's VERY sensitive with regard to all social interactions--the opposite of thick-skinned. If someone is careless in driving, the fact that someone would be inconsiderate will bother her for at least 10 or 15 minutes. She's also very sensitive to certain kinds of joking. When we used to work together, I came in one morning after a long night, groggy, and spoke quietly because I was tired. She had a hard time hearing me and asked if she was going deaf. I thought she was joking and I said, "You must be, I've been yelling at the top of my lungs all morning." This caused her to go into a fit of sobbing saying "I don't want to go deaf." On a related note, she had had little sleep the night before as well.

Those are just a few things that I have secretly worried about, but later dismissed as odd incidents.





honestly this shouldn't play too much into the psychosis. i get that "hermit" thing a lot and can be overly sensitive to social interactions. maybe not to the extent of the deaf thing but i do have some pretty hardcore social issues stemming from verbal abuse and bullying when i was younger as well as some physical defects which impacted my psyche greatly. if anything psychedelics helped me :shrug: but certainly haven't hurt me. but who knows... perhaps at a deeper psychological level she was still more vulnerable than me. i still think the grandma thing sounds like the biggest known contributing factor here. when you've had your fair experience tripping it's easy to toss off bad trips and move on with your life. when you've never tripped before and take it as an escape from pain, i can't imagine what kind of stress that'd do on the psyche.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller] * 2
    #16433404 - 06/25/12 12:21 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

SL28, a suggestion:

Get a collection of songs you know your GF knows by heart. Play them, sing them to her. Get her to sing them with you. Music is powerful. In this case, I'd use lullaby-like songs in particular. We're talking songs that her heart knows so well she would be able to sing them in her dreams.

I felt the strong impulse to share.

Good luck.

-V


Edited by Vahn421 (06/25/12 12:24 AM)


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Vahn421]
    #16433542 - 06/25/12 12:46 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, this story has really made me re-think the idea of ever introducing psychedelics to anyone ever again.  I guess you just never know how some people will react to the experience.  Thanks for sharing, and hope it all turns out ok.  :heart:

I'd be really curious to hear what her experience has been like, once she gets better.  The way in which people undergoing psychotic breaks make sense of their mental state fascinates me.  I figure, getting that perspective from someone who has already been there would be one possible way for preparing oneself to deal with such a circumstance, should it ever arise.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Comradez]
    #16435274 - 06/25/12 12:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Have you considered contacting the researchers at Johns Hopkins who are currently doing psychological experiments using psyclocybin?  They woudl certainly know what to do in this case AND would carry the weight of a respected institution and of "modern medicine" to have some sway with the people that are treating your friend.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Everything]
    #16435569 - 06/25/12 02:12 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Everything,

the hospital has her stuck indoors. Though she did freak out enough when they put her in a windowless room that they decided it would be better to let her sleep in the conference room that had a window facing some trees.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435595 - 06/25/12 02:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Hygrocybe,

I'll probably talk to her about finding one of those "underground" psychologists when she gets caught up on rest. Once she gets back completely, it will be her choice which route she wants to take for further treatment--the doctors have really been shoving the "drugs bad" mantra down her throat and she feels guilty now for having done mushrooms.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435629 - 06/25/12 02:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Kupo,

the concept of ego death is something I'd like to talk to her about once her mind can handle the thought process again. I suppose I could be a bit controlling, though when a decision affects more than me I always try to evaluate how everyone feels and get an idea of what they think before making the decision. I have never told S. she must do something unless it's something she doesn't want to do, but needs encouragement (like calling her mother). I dunno, it's hard for me to differentiate between being controlling and decisive.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435643 - 06/25/12 02:26 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Vahn421,

the doctors don't allow electronic devices of any sort. They claimed cds could be broken to slash wrists and headphone cords used for strangulation. I proposed bluetooth headphones and an mp3 player when she was first brought in and they said 'no.' She does love music (she's a pianist and percussionist) and I feel it would have helped her out immensely. But what do I know, I don't have a degree in medicine, right?


Edited by SL28 (06/25/12 02:26 PM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435659 - 06/25/12 02:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

JacksonMetaller,

she was a band dork and looks pretty young for her age. I'm not sure, she may have been bullied. As for family history, aside from an overbearing mom, she comes from a healthy family.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435679 - 06/25/12 02:34 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Comradez,

I'm not sure this should turn you off of introducing friends to psychedelics, but it should make you cautious. You should know everything you can about the substance you are providing your friends, and everything that can go wrong. You should know how to handle things if they go wrong. Really, I thought I knew enough going into this experience and I did not.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435684 - 06/25/12 02:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

gornyhuy,

that sounds like a wonderful idea. Thank you for the reference.


Edited by SL28 (06/25/12 02:38 PM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435691 - 06/25/12 02:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Btw, called this morning and the nurse said S. got at least 7 hours of sleep. I'm guessing when I'm able to visit her this evening she will be pretty with-it, albeit groggy and disoriented from the drugs they give her.


Edited by SL28 (06/25/12 02:37 PM)


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OfflineFakePlasticSky
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16435742 - 06/25/12 02:48 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

OMG, I am so sorry this happened to you.  My thoughts and prayers are with you man!  How is your wife doing now?  Hopefully things are better?  This is a very upsetting read cause I can only imagine how you are feeling right now.


--------------------
I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.


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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: FakePlasticSky]
    #16435888 - 06/25/12 03:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Have you considered contacting the researchers at Johns Hopkins who are currently doing psychological experiments using psyclocybin?  They woudl certainly know what to do in this case AND would carry the weight of a respected institution and of "modern medicine" to have some sway with the people that are treating your friend.


That is so bizarre because ....I was just thinking that same thing when I read this post. Hopkins is my town and I have read some of their research. I doubt they have studied anything exactly similar to your GF situation, but a telephone call would certainly be worth your time....they may be very interested in this particular case as well. I will see if I can find out some names of the research shrinks that were/ are involved. I'm not sure this study is still going on though. I believe, these studies involved the spirituality  aspects of psilocybin. Again, prayers for you both.:peace:


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16435930 - 06/25/12 03:48 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, did a little research....the Dr's name is Roland Griffiths and his email is rgriff@jhmi.edu  and here is the link to the study..http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf Hopefully, some of this may be of assistance and maybe this Griffiths or one of his colleagues may actually help you. Hope so.

M


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16435974 - 06/25/12 04:04 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

i think it would be a fantastic idea to contact the researchers at Hopkins, im positive that they could provide an immense amount of help in this situation. not only with your gf specifically, but this also has the potential to set a precedent for how to handle all future drug induced psychosis cases, or how law enforcement/medical staff deal with people under the influence of psychedelics in general


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16436239 - 06/25/12 05:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I absolutely agree psyconaught. BTW, Here is a exerpt from the conclusion page of the Hopkins study.....:While there is no indication that carefully monitored
clinical exposure of psilocybin to hallucinogen-naïve
volunteers results in subsequent abuse (present study;
Gouzoulis-Mayfrank, personal communication; Yensen
and Dryer, (1992)1; Leuner 1981), the epidemic of
hallucinogen abuse in the 1960s raises an important
cautionary note. Abuse of hallucinogens can be exacerbated
under conditions in which hallucinogens are readily
available illicitly and the potential harms to both the
individual and society are misrepresented or understated.
It is important that the risks of hallucinogen use not be
underestimated. Even in the present study in which the
conditions of volunteer preparation and psilocybin administration
were carefully designed to minimize adverse
effects, with a high dose of psilocybin 31% of the group
of carefully screened volunteers experienced significant
fear and 17% had transient ideas of reference/paranoia.
Under unmonitored conditions, it is not difficult to imagine
such effects escalating to panic and dangerous behavior.
Also, the role of hallucinogens in precipitating or exacerbating
enduring psychiatric conditions and long-lasting
visual perceptual disturbances should remain a topic of
research (Abraham et al. 1996; Halpern and Pope 1999). It is important to note that this study was done on carefully screened and under strongly controlled conditions....none of the test subjects had any underlying or preexisting psych disorders.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16437969 - 06/25/12 11:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I read http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf and found it very informative--it actually made me feel a bit better. I would print a copy of it and give it to S.'s supervising doctor but, as balitmark's signature states:

'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'

S. is completely lucid now, but is still clinging to the feeling that someone has died and needs frequent confirmation that everyone she cares about are still alive and that she herself is not dead and will not die anytime soon. I suppose this feeling derives from the ego death she experienced. She's had other hallucinations in the past couple days that her doctor attributes to a flashback, but are unrelated to her experience--like our house burning down. I feel it would be pointless to suggest to the doctor that when we go a very long time without sleep our mind starts projecting our dreams into reality since it does not have a dreamscape to project on. In any case, when she's able to sleep without the drugs, I'm getting her the fuck out of there. If they don't allow it, I have several close friends that are lawyers, I can have them help or get a marriage certificate for rights--we were planning on getting married anyways, though on more romantic circumstances. I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16438295 - 06/26/12 12:19 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Glad to hear she got some sleep.

She's a PIANIST? God....

If she could be in the same room with someone playing an actual piano... songs that she knew how to play herself, it would probably be more healing than anything else she could possibly do right now for her mental health, aside from sleep.

If you feel up for it, you can sing to her, too.

I'm almost certain you could have brought her back ages ago this way. Hospitals are very fearful environments, so that doesn't help.

Good vibes from me, bro.

ETA: When all of this is said and done and your GF fully recovers her lucidity, from her perspective, I wonder how much, "time" will have passed?

-V


--------------------
Dive into the heart... but don't be afraid.



Edited by Vahn421 (06/26/12 12:21 AM)


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16439991 - 06/26/12 12:41 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.





Ya u do....those docs rn't doing nething good for her probably. Ther r alot of great people in this community and they will b able to help with suggestions and advice just as well as neone else....Shitt.....u could prob find a professional that is needed through this site


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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16439994 - 06/26/12 12:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I read http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/GriffithsPsilocybin.pdf and found it very informative--it actually made me feel a bit better. I would print a copy of it and give it to S.'s supervising doctor but, as balitmark's signature states:

'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'

S. is completely lucid now, but is still clinging to the feeling that someone has died and needs frequent confirmation that everyone she cares about are still alive and that she herself is not dead and will not die anytime soon. I suppose this feeling derives from the ego death she experienced. She's had other hallucinations in the past couple days that her doctor attributes to a flashback, but are unrelated to her experience--like our house burning down. I feel it would be pointless to suggest to the doctor that when we go a very long time without sleep our mind starts projecting our dreams into reality since it does not have a dreamscape to project on. In any case, when she's able to sleep without the drugs, I'm getting her the fuck out of there. If they don't allow it, I have several close friends that are lawyers, I can have them help or get a marriage certificate for rights--we were planning on getting married anyways, though on more romantic circumstances. I need to get her to a professional that can tell the difference between heroine and psilocybin.



Glad you found some solace in the study and you are the first person to comment on Herbert Spencers' "everlasting ignorance" speech. Even though it was written during WW1, I find this as becoming more and more common in mainstream America today in both politics (Tea Party) and, as you have found, medical and legal fields.
Still praying for you two.:sunny::peace: M


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16440031 - 06/26/12 12:52 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

That's good news bud! Glad to hear that she's coming back. I was pretty confident she would, but sooner is always better than later.


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OfflinePeaceLove
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16440258 - 06/26/12 01:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

If I could, I'd slap everyone of those "doctors". They probably knew they could bring her out of it as soon as she came in, but they don't get as much money that way. Plus they probably felt it as their moral duty to turn her away from drugs by feeding her worse drugs and telling her "drugs are bad mkay.. now eat these, sign here, tell me your bank account, and while your at it, remember everyone you love is dead. Have a nice death"


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:mindblown:


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PeaceLove]
    #16440357 - 06/26/12 02:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I talked to her on the phone this morning--it's the first time she's really been with-it enough to use the phone. During visits her mom shushes me and scowls whenever I try to help S. understand why she "feels" someone close to her, or her own self has died. I was able to talk to her about the things everyone on this forum has been telling me and relate everyones experiences to her. I was able to tell her that what she experienced during her trip was very normal and actually healthy if handled correctly. I was then able to talk to her about the "ego death" and that her feelings of death are all rooted in that experience, and really the only death was a temporary shattering of the ego. I could almost see the lights going off in her head when I explained these things to her. Her mom does not allow me to talk about any of this "philosophical mumbo-jumbo" during visits because she thinks it will confuse and disturb S.--I get very frustrated. By being able to pass the encouragement and knowledge from everyone here, I think I was able to fast-track her mentally into sorting things out in her head. Thank you everyone.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28] * 2
    #16440406 - 06/26/12 02:24 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, just lay off.

That shit you are whispering to her is scary.  It is mumbo-jumbo philosophical bullshit, her mom is right.  All I know is that if I had you whispering that shit to me when I had my psychotic break over a decade ago, I'd have fucking gone nuttier.

She needs structure, format, right and wrong, good and bad, simple fucking ideas to get back to normal.  Just fucking lay off with the bullshit.  I know your world is fucking shattered right now too.  But it doesn't sound you are helping much more than the credentialed morons.  Too bad she just can't go home to her bed and have loved ones around to comfort her.

And it sucks that there's the conflict between you and her parents.  They believe you broke their daughter and all you do is care about her.  I'd step back from this one for a while.  If her relationship with her parents is strong and positive, let them heal her.  They may know how better than you.  My mom healed me.  Maternal and paternal love may be more nourishing than what you have to offer right now.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440466 - 06/26/12 02:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

O god...not Joemolloy  :trippingsheens:


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Offlinexzylocybin
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16440475 - 06/26/12 02:37 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thats great that you were able to explain things to her, It's too bad  her mother had to be involved and is'nt accepting of the things you are trying to say to her, but just know that they are right, it sounds like from what you said that S is starting to understand the trip and now that you explained things to her she will be able to reflect on them herself and see them as the truth that they are. I'm very glad that she seems to be doing better, this will probably be an experience that she grows from though it is very difficult for her now. The brightest light comes after the darkest night, I know firsthand :smile:

Don't listen to Joemolloy he is iether a troll or just plain wrong.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: xzylocybin]
    #16440495 - 06/26/12 02:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Listen, you'll get all sorts of advice in the big world here.  From trippy kids to old dickwads like me.  There's a lot truth in my words.  For me, you would have been doing me a big disservice.  For her, I don't know.  Something to consider.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440509 - 06/26/12 02:47 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Dude, just lay off.

That shit you are whispering to her is scary.  It is mumbo-jumbo philosophical bullshit, her mom is right.  All I know is that if I had you whispering that shit to me when I had my psychotic break over a decade ago, I'd have fucking gone nuttier.

She needs structure, format, right and wrong, good and bad, simple fucking ideas to get back to normal.  Just fucking lay off with the bullshit.  I know your world is fucking shattered right now too.  But it doesn't sound you are helping much more than the credentialed morons.  Too bad she just can't go home to her bed and have loved ones around to comfort her.

And it sucks that there's the conflict between you and her parents.  They believe you broke their daughter and all you do is care about her.  I'd step back from this one for a while.  If her relationship with her parents is strong and positive, let them heal her.  They may know how better than you.  My mom healed me.  Maternal and paternal love may be more nourishing than what you have to offer right now.




i dont know... from what he said it sounds like he's just explaining that the ideas of death were all part of an experience and in her head. sounds pretty reasonable to me. she needs to know its not real. that she's not broken permanently. that she has the ability to move out of it


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16440518 - 06/26/12 02:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

And the frames and references in which he is making that apparent to her is what bothers me.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440560 - 06/26/12 03:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

He needs to lay off and let the parents do what they think is best.  And I pray to fucking God that they are wise, compassionate, and have luck on their side.  Is he going to wipe her ass for the rest of her life if she doesn't get better?  They get stuck with the bill, unfortunately.  If you were her husband, I'd have other thoughts.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16440824 - 06/26/12 03:59 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I've read a lot of Joemolly's posts in the past, and while he can sometimes be a cynical asshole (and I believe he knows it and is proud of it. ;D ), I do happen to agree with him this time. NOW is not the time to be discussing WHY or WHAT she is going through with her completely de-fragged brain. Keep it simple.

This is why I said twice, man. Music. Her favorite music. Especially things she knows by heart on the piano. Seriously. Currently, structure is VERY important for her as she's off in Candyland right now. Once she's recovered, I'm sure all of this will be fantastic, retrospective insight you can share with her.


-V


--------------------
Dive into the heart... but don't be afraid.



Edited by Vahn421 (06/26/12 04:01 PM)


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Vahn421]
    #16440999 - 06/26/12 04:43 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I don't agree completely with Joemolloy, But his opinion is obviously coming from a good place. Hes not trying to smash on any intentionally, or at least it doesn't seem that way to me. I agree that her mothers love and compassion will be all this chick needs to recover. Whether or not she understands the psychedelic world, and how these drugs effect you doesn't mean that just her presents alone and her hugs and reassuring words won't be plenty to have this chick back to normal. I think this situation just needs more time.

With all that being said, I want to say I'm very happy to hear shes doing better.  I am praying for you guys.


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OfflineComradez
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16441193 - 06/26/12 05:29 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Not to be too critical of you, OP, but I'm definitely getting a little bit of a controlling vibe from you...especially the idea of trying to explain ego-death to her right now.  Right now you just need to listen to what she has to say.  Hell, she has just been through a crazier trip than any of us will probably ever even come close to having.  If I were you, I'd be asking her, "So what has this whole experience been like?"  I'm sure she has some crazy stories to tell about her time in the hospital, and her time leading up to the hospital.  I'd be curious to get her take on all of it, and see what she bases this on and how much it lines up with the "official" explanation of it all coming from her parents and doctors.  Like, first of all, does SHE attribute the episode to the mushrooms, or to anything else?  Everyone but her is butting in with their opinions on the situation:  her parents, her doctors, you.  What does SHE think about it all?


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They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16441227 - 06/26/12 05:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
He needs to lay off and let the parents do what they think is best.  And I pray to fucking God that they are wise, compassionate, and have luck on their side.  Is he going to wipe her ass for the rest of her life if she doesn't get better?  They get stuck with the bill, unfortunately.  If you were her husband, I'd have other thoughts.




only problem with that is if her parents are anything like most parents they are very ignorant of the type of situation their daughter is in. seeing that OP is fairly experienced with psychedelics he can probably better relate to the experience she had and help talk her back to reality.


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OfflineComradez
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16441261 - 06/26/12 05:43 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I'm gonna be honest.  Here's what I see:

I see a situation where everyone around this person is scrambling to insert their cultural programming into her while she is still in the vulnerable state of building back up her ontology and epistemology from scratch.  "Drugs are bad" vs. "Drugs are not necessarily bad," etc.  It's disgusting, really, how her parents appear to be taking advantage of her vulnerable mental state in order to advance their own agenda, using their daughter as means towards an end rather than approaching her as an end, a thing of value, in and of herself.  (Immanuel Kant would not approve!)  So, don't stoop to her parents' level. 

That said, I know you don't want to just let her parents' programming to win out without a fight, so what you do at this point, I think, is simply encourage her to reserve judgment for the time being.  Try to focus on objective stuff that happened, and shy away from trying to read into things any sort of lessons or wider implications for the time being.  Encourage her to come to such broader conclusions on her own in due time.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16441334 - 06/26/12 06:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
I am terrified. More terrified now than I have been of anything in my near 3 decades of life. Let me give some background and then start from the beginning. I am originally from the SW Gulf Coast of Florida and had better access to psilocybin mushrooms than alcohol, so during my adolescence I ate mushrooms at a pretty regular rate while others would binge drink. Considering we were able to fill a garbage bag during the wet times of the year and we'd reduce them all to a tea, I'd surmise that the dry dose would occasionally surpass 12g dry. Trips would last about 12 hours sometimes a bit longer, but even the bad trips I found manageable because I was able to hold on to the obvious truth that I was under the effects of a drug and that this effect would inevitably wear off. Summary: I am not a stranger to psychedelics and have experienced them with many different people from different backgrounds.

Fast forward 15 years. My girlfriend of a year had never had a psychedelic experience and I thought it would be a good and healthy experience for her to have one at least one time. Since we enjoy gardening and watching things grow, I thought it would be fun and safer to grow them ourselves than purchase them from some unknown source. We grew them, dried them, and waited for a day when both of us would be freed of any responsibilities so no stress would interfere with the trip. I STRONGLY emphasized to her that 'mushrooms draw from your sub-conscious, any insecurities you have, any imbalance of emotions, anything negative you feel, any unhappiness you have with life will be multiplied one hundred-fold. Psilocybin mushrooms can be much stronger than other psychedelics. If there is anything stressing you right now, or anything you feel negative about, you should not take the shrooms.' She reflected for  bit and said she felt fine with regard to all those things. So, I started her off with 0.5g to make sure there would be no negative physical effects--even portabellas are poisonous to a few select people. She felt little to nothing from the dose. The next free day that arose for us, I told her what I had told her the time before, I weighed out a 1.7g dose for both of us. It had mild effects for her still and she said she felt a bit more lively, but nothing serious.

A couple weeks later I upped the dose to a full eighth (about 3.4g). 2 hours pass, she goes through the usual motions. And then a switch that should never have been flipped gets flipped. She begins repeating the same 6 or seven statements over and over, re-ordering them. "We're not going to kill ourselves." I reply in the affirmative, "Killing ourselves would really suck for us, and would make everyone close to us very sad. It's not even worth thinking about. Look at the sky, doesn't that cloud look like a horse trotting?" She looks up, and is momentarily distracted. Then she begins again. "Women are intuition." "Men are order." "If we go to sleep now, we can wake up at eight and not take the mushrooms." "M., we need to go to sleep!" "It's all so beautiful!" "M.! Don't let there be a God!" "But there has to be a God." "And if there's a God then that means men are order." "M.! We need to go to sleep!" "Listen to me! Women are intuition, so if men are order then we did not take the mushrooms and we'll wake up at 8 o'clock." Her emotions swing wildly from sorrow to elation and everything in between.  This goes on for 4 hours. I continually try and break her cycle of thought with sensory stimulation and try and draw from elements in the real world. None of it works. I watch my watch and wait anxiously for the six hour mark, by which time the psilocybin should be making its way out of her system. The time passes and she levels out. But this is far from the end.




Harsh story man, you must have felt terrible. I remember when I introduced my wife to mescaline. I bought 60g Peruvian torch cuttings and brewed them thoroughly for a very long time. As luck would (or wouldn't) have it, they turned out to be INCREDIBLY potent cuttings. Strongest mesc trip of my life, I was peaking for at least 12 hours. I loved it, I love mesc full stop. It's second only to shrooms on my favourite hallucinogen list (shrooms win because they make you feel so damned good the following day on the comedown, great anti-depressant).

Anyway, we drank the green goo, and then both fell asleep on the sofa as it was quite late (around 11 at night). One of those spur of the moment type things, not really the best way to go about tripping. So, I awoke 90 minutes later on a completely different planet. The visuals were easily as intense as a strong acid trip.. You know, hallucinations like looking at a floral pattern that just keeps growing and evolving out of itself even though you can still see that it's not doing anything at all. I remember going to get a glass of water and having to wade through the kitchen floor! So, I was having a whale of a time.

But my poor wife, it was all too much for her. It freaked her out proper, and like your GF, she went off on a mad death trip. She wasn't incoherent or anything like that, but was clearly in a horrible, horrible place. And there was nothing I could do about it. I tried my best to change set and setting, but nothing worked. I'd have killed for 30mg valium to feed her that night, but the benzo cupboard was dry.

In the end, she retired to the bedroom, she just wanted to be on her own. I knew this was a bad plan, but she insisted upon it, and in the state she was in, I wasn't going to push it. So I was stuck in this weird trip, where I was loving the body high, freaky mindset and awesome visuals, but also VERY worried for my wife, which was multiplied by about 100 on account of the mesc coursing through my veins. The trip was so strong it blew a hole out the side of MY head, and I'm a hallucinogen hardnut, it always takes massive doses of whatever to get me where I want to be.

So, there's my wife, stuck alone in the bedroom. And there she stayed for about 8 hours. I went and checked on her frequently, and she seemed to be asleep. But she wasn't. She told me afterwards that for the whole of the peak on her own, the bedroom was full of ghosts and skeletons and ghoulish faces, everything you can imagine from a horror death trip. It must have been horrific! I dealt with the children that day, it was mad weird when they came downstairs in the morning, because by that point I'd have expected to be well on the comedown, but that trip went on and on and on and on and on. It took until 2pm the following day before I was back at a +1, the rest of the time it was all +3 / +4 territory. My poor wife finally surfaced in the evening, stayed downstairs for all of an hour or so to tell her trip story, then headed off back to bed.

After that trip, I felt vaguely mesc'd up for about 3 days. You know, trees looking like lightning balls and swirly whirly patterns on anything textured, things like that. I felt so bad for my wife because I'd had 30g of torch from the same source before, which had been about a fifth as potent.

That's the trouble with organic based hallucinogens. You just don't know which cactus / shroom is going to take your mind and soul, and punch holes in it. I went to a live Shpongle gig a fews back, and ate all of 1.5g of Cubensis. I gave the same to my wife. She was absolutely fine, that time it was my turn to have my head blown off. I mean completely blown off, all on account of a couple of randomly super potent shrooms. Which caused me to freak out because I was only after a nice +1 / +2 trip to enhance the lights and music. Instead I got a strong +3 which turned the floor into an ocean. I had to go outside and hide in a corner for 45 minutes, until I chilled into the surprisingly strong trip. Thank god I shook off the bad vibes about 5 minutes before Shpongle started, then raved like a loony for the whole set, loving it like I've loved no other live performance before or since..

Moral of my story? I think your friend was unlucky and took an eighth of abnormally potent shroomage. I'm sure she'll be fine in time, nasty experiences like that can cause PTSD for people, particularly first timers. After my Shpongle experience, I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..


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Offlinerikuni

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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16441429 - 06/26/12 06:21 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

...


Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 10:44 AM)


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: rikuni]
    #16441437 - 06/26/12 06:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rikuni said:
this is no psychotic break. This is result of bad spirits messing around with people that had no protection while visiting other realms.
The hospital wont help.




alright we need suits for two then





jk dude. this is definitely a psychotic break though. or some form of menta break


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: rikuni]
    #16441656 - 06/26/12 07:13 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rikuni said:
this is no psychotic break. This is result of bad spirits messing around with people that had no protection while visiting other realms.
The hospital wont help.





I have never wore a condom during a trip and have never had an experience like this! I think you may have the tendency to be a bit nuts :smile:


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16441739 - 06/26/12 07:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..




And as smart as you are, you post this bullshit.  NO FUCKING GUARANTEES EVER!  All you are gambling with is your sanity, right?  Don't ever put the words like "guarantee" near the word psychedelic.  The two cancel each other out.  All we can do is keep our fingers crossed whenever embarking and hope we'll come back more or less sane.

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinefungi_funguy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16441864 - 06/26/12 07:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..




And as smart as you are, you post this bullshit.  NO FUCKING GUARANTEES EVER!  All you are gambling with is your sanity, right?  Don't ever put the words like "guarantee" near the word psychedelic.  The two cancel each other out.  All we can do is keep our fingers crossed whenever embarking and hope we'll come back more or less sane.

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.




You are a one of a kind Joe. This 5 page thread has given me a great respect for you. Albeit twisted, respect nonetheless.

28, My heart goes out to your girl man and like others, I am very curious as to what her thoughts are after this is over. If it's ever "over". Peace and good vibes man.


--------------------
Absolutely nothing that I post and/or upload is a true representation of me and my actions. It is all fake/fiction/untrue/bullshit. It's just me having fun as a way of entertaining myself !! :rockon:

I offer much respect, but never expect it in return.
However when it IS given in return, I may have met a friend.

Do not let the sun go down on thy ride.

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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16441874 - 06/26/12 07:56 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I think what Joe said makes sense, the part about lifes basics and comforts. I think that the most of us here have very little psych schooling and only offer our own (slightly skewed) experiences  as fodder for treatment....when we maybe have a high school grade level psychology background.

I tend to agree with Joe's acidic view of explaining the "benefits" of ego death in her current condition. My question to SL would be: When you enter the room, how does she react? and answer that honestly. Is it with a warmth and glow that would accompany comfort or is her reaction one of angst? If the latter, maybe you should back off a little.

Still praying,  "M"  P.S. All you others may want to say a little prayer.....just on the outside chance that it may help. After all, What do you have to lose?


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Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16441931 - 06/26/12 08:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

That said, I know you don't want to just let her parents' programming to win out without a fight, so what you do at this point, I think, is simply encourage her to reserve judgment for the time being.




Comradez, is brilliant.  I'll say it.  Let her parents programming win out this battle.


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineKupo
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16442047 - 06/26/12 08:26 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..




And as smart as you are, you post this bullshit.  NO FUCKING GUARANTEES EVER!  All you are gambling with is your sanity, right?  Don't ever put the words like "guarantee" near the word psychedelic.  The two cancel each other out.  All we can do is keep our fingers crossed whenever embarking and hope we'll come back more or less sane.

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.




No, there is a lot more we can do then simply cross our fingers. Set and setting are important for a reason. Dosage is important for a reason. Knowledge of fear, thought loops and how to break them is important for a reason. Sitters are important for a reason. There are precautions that can be taken to provide the best environment for exploring our minds and the world around us.

I do however agree that there is no guarantee of anything after ingesting a psychedelic.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Kupo]
    #16442068 - 06/26/12 08:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

And with all those very fucking valuable precautions, hope the wind blows in your direction because that's how precarious it can be.


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28] * 2
    #16442129 - 06/26/12 08:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I once had a similar 'psychotic break' if you will, 40+ trips behind my belt, I was well experienced, but it happened. I don't believe I'm schizo, there's no history in my family, I just came to some realizations most of us avoid. I was completely sober during it all, or lucid might be a better word, but I was basically in the same situation as your friend. You can look through my post history if you're curious, I posted a good bit of crazy shit at the time trying to rationalize it and seek out help. Basically what happened though is that I died, just as your gf. I was dead, and she probably now is too. Words are so limiting, of course I had a physical body still, but I was fucking dead and everyone around me was.. well.. I wouldn't say dead, I wouldn't say they were me.. it's just so hard to describe. A doctor was a doctor, my mom was my mom, they were all playing their roles. They weren't fake, far from it, but... ugh.. you just can't understand unless you experience it. Cause and effect can be torturous.

At first I ignored it hoping I'd eventually fade back into 'reality.' I went to work, cleaned my house, hung out with friends, w/e. I do believe I made mention of it to my friends, but I simply held it together and.. I wouldn't say I was acting, it's hard to describe, but.. I played the role of myself if you will. After two weeks of this though and not knowing what else to do I too decided to go to the hospital, where else can you go? As you've found out, yah, big mistake. When you think you're crazy and they put you with crazy, treat you like crazy, it only reinforces that belief. The hospital did at best nothing, and at worst delayed my recovery/acceptance, but I don't regret it all the same. Regret was a concept I could not fathom during this, everything was perfect, it was hell, a quite literal hell, but if you're in hell it is hell. If hell were not hell I'd be more scared if you know what I mean (I promise I'm not still 'crazy' but describing this is oh so difficult).

Anyway at some point in there I stopped trying to fix my problem, I accepted I was dead/dying, or however you might describe the situation. Everything was still complete agony, but.. that's what it was. I can't get out, this is it. After 7 days they let me out, and I wasn't doing anything better, but I basically gave up on getting better. Not that I would say I was bad, or worse, but.. I was clearly in mental pain, most 'normal' people would say this is a problem. There was nothing too significant over the next couple weeks, nothing changed, but I just tried to accept everything for what it was in all situations. I would literally be.. for lack of a better word, perfect. There is no such thing, but you know how you will plan to do something but something else gets in the way, 'I'm too lazy', 'this is more fun,','fuck that guy he's an asshole' etc.. none of that happened. There came a point when I did everything that *I* wanted to do. Not that my ego wanted to do (they are the same thing, but.. how else can you describe this?) It was like I was playing a videogame controlling myself. All activities were the same, so if I had dishes to do why would I watch tv? Can you get where I'm going with this? Roughly a month after this all started, more or less 2 weeks after I got out of the hospital (I may have gone to the hospital after only a week, it was a few years back now), I resolved it all and one night after work I completely flipped and transitioned into the most beautiful blissful state of ecstasy I have ever been in my life.

This I held onto. I stopped doing all of the 'good' things I did before that 'I' wanted to do and I completely gave into my 'ego' if you will. Everything was fucking magical as hell, I loved everyone, everything, so so much. Mundane work was fucking incredible, I did enjoy 'fun' activities more, but I just lived in the moment, if I'm at work I'm not going to wish I was playing a videogame at home. This ended up lasting about a week and a half and then, like before, I 'came down' one night over the course of a few hours and I was my old 'sane' self again. I was left with a deep depression because I missed the ecstasy I was previously in, but I knew it was not abnormal in any way at this point and a few days later that faded as well.

I'm not sure if this will be able to help your friend in any way, but I would not lose hope. I do believe there is nothing anyone can do though, this is entirely something she has to work out on her own. I would not invalidate her experience certainly, it's very hard to understand, but I do not believe she is crazy in the least. What she says is true, she's just having trouble explaining it to you, or more likely you're having trouble understanding it. She probably is dead, her ego is gone or at least perpetually dying, again and again and again. I truly understood what eastern religions mean with the cycle of rebirth, samsara, and though I don't identify with them as much, western religions made complete sense to me as well; I would literally die and be reborn in every action I did. She basically needs to let go and let her self die, accept she is dead, or hang in there and it'll probably rebuild itself at some point too.. maybe there's no difference. I wish both of you the best, I for one would not take back this experience for anything, one of the most beautiful things to have happened to me, though also the worst I must say heh.


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Offlinethe locked shroom
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16442209 - 06/26/12 09:01 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..




And as smart as you are, you post this bullshit.  NO FUCKING GUARANTEES EVER!  All you are gambling with is your sanity, right?  Don't ever put the words like "guarantee" near the word psychedelic.  The two cancel each other out.  All we can do is keep our fingers crossed whenever embarking and hope we'll come back more or less sane.

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.




Yessiree. You are playing with fire when you do these things. Don't get me wrong, they're great. But you are playing with fire every goddamned time, and that means you might get burnt. I think of it a lot like putting linux on your computer... Great 99.99% of the time, but it will always be a bit of a gamble. But here, the computer is your mind.

Anyway, I agree... don't lay anything too deep on her. It probably makes a ton of sense to you but I doubt it does to her right now. Just stick with the simple stuff.

Also, this isn't really your fault, don't beat yourself up over it. You did it responsibly, you gave her several sample doses and upped them carefully. You didn't force it on her. It's only your fault in the sense that if you took someone bike riding and they got hit in a freak car accident, it would be your fault. People do much bigger doses, much less prepared, under much worse conditions and come out fine. This is simply a godawful misfortune.

However, I would suggest staying close to her... From what you've said it sounds like her mom resents the fuck out of you, and if you back off for a while, the mom could potentially turn her against you while she's in a vulnerable and easily influenced state. Also, your lady may not recognize your staying away as wanting to let her heal, and may see it as you abandoning her. I'd stay close if you want her to be in your future.

Ugh. So sorry this happened.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16442239 - 06/26/12 09:08 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Dude, just lay off.

That shit you are whispering to her is scary.  It is mumbo-jumbo philosophical bullshit, her mom is right.  All I know is that if I had you whispering that shit to me when I had my psychotic break over a decade ago, I'd have fucking gone nuttier.

She needs structure, format, right and wrong, good and bad, simple fucking ideas to get back to normal.  Just fucking lay off with the bullshit.  I know your world is fucking shattered right now too.  But it doesn't sound you are helping much more than the credentialed morons.  Too bad she just can't go home to her bed and have loved ones around to comfort her.

And it sucks that there's the conflict between you and her parents.  They believe you broke their daughter and all you do is care about her.  I'd step back from this one for a while.  If her relationship with her parents is strong and positive, let them heal her.  They may know how better than you.  My mom healed me.  Maternal and paternal love may be more nourishing than what you have to offer right now.





I agree with Joe here, no talking about ego death or any of that stuff with the girl. This is not about if his beliefs are right or if her parents are right.

All her parent know is that mushrooms have their daughter in a hospital fighting for her sanity. This girl needs to have her mind come back to normal, I feel for the OP and this terrible situation, I hope she recovers soon.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: krypto2000]
    #16442280 - 06/26/12 09:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
A doctor was a doctor, my mom was my mom, they were all playing their roles. They weren't fake, far from it, but... ugh.. you just can't understand unless you experience it. Cause and effect can be torturous.






the roles! i know that feeling. like something's pulling their strings. the completely absense of freewill in everything you observe. like it's all chained to some program. repetition everywhere you look. blind people playing their roles over and over again. i had an experience like that while on acid once. thank god i snapped out of it.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16442398 - 06/26/12 09:41 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

What we talked about did seriously help her. The main thing she had been grappling with was this odd feeling that someone had died. She reflected on the trip and the concept of ego death after we talked and found that that was where the feeling was coming from. During our visit tonight, she thanked me and did not mention anything about death or anything wonky for the entire visit. S. and I have very similar personality types and don't like to be placated and like things laid to us straight. She is super-logical and the paradox she felt was really messing with her head. A reasonable explanation for that paradox helped her a lot.

That said, I'm not trying to put myself at odds with her parents, but merely trying to do for her what I would want done for myself; and considering we're incredibly similar people, it's usually the right thing. Her head is back together, all that's really left is to get her biological clock wound and set to the right time.

Again, all of the information on this thread has been invaluable and I am immensely grateful to everyone here. Thank you so much.


Edited by SL28 (06/26/12 09:44 PM)


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16442501 - 06/26/12 10:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Joemolly,

I understand where you're coming from, and you speak a lot of truth. I'm generally not controlling, but get that way when someone I care about cannot advocate for themselves. It takes a lot of energy and would be much easier for me to sit back and do nothing. Now that S. has put all the pieces together, I can stand back and let her handle things, thank Zenu. Sidetrack>>>As for her parents, S.'s mom talks to her like a child and talks over her whenever she tries to say something and the lack of respect for her daughter irritates me. She also has the personality type I like to classify as 'invalidator'--a person that likes to build herself up by breaking down those around her with subtle comments that make them feel unimportant. Example: S.'s dad comes home: "I had an awful day at work" Her mom: "no you didn't, my day was awful" Lots of little things like that. <<<


Edited by SL28 (06/26/12 10:06 PM)


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OfflineWallflower

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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16442530 - 06/26/12 10:07 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

First of all.

She is 24 years old. She is an adult. She chose of her own free will to eat the mushrooms. Also, most of the time first trips are amazing. Most people never have such a horrible reaction in all their tripping life.

So no, you did not break anyone's mind, OP. If a trip on less than 5 grams has triggered this reaction from shrooms, then there were underlying issues going on that nobody could have foreseen. It's tragic, and it's not your fault at all.

I also suspect that the sleep deprivation is causing most of the issues. Studies were done showing the effects of sleep deprivation (the subjects volunteered). You can look some of them up if you wish. In one that I read, two of the people by just day 3 of no sleep were freaking out severely and even hallucinating. Sleep is VERY important, and not getting it does terrible things to the mind.


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: krypto2000]
    #16442554 - 06/26/12 10:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

krypto2000,

what you went through sounds eerily similar to what S. is going through right now. Deep down inside, I believe she'll look on this last week as a life-changing experience and will be a better person for it; not because I need to believe that to make myself feel better, but because it seems to be what generally happens in these cases. I know it has been the most impactful week of my life.


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OfflineWallflower

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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16442572 - 06/26/12 10:20 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Could very well be.

My first trip was horrific and I was fucked up for a good week.

Wouldn't go back and trade it for anything, either.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16442614 - 06/26/12 10:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

no one here can really tell you what to say to her because no one has talked to her so has no clue what is going on.

Joemolly telling you to just get on board with the parents makes no sense, he doesn't even know what the parents think about all this and what perspective they are approaching her with, never mind who she is or what she needs.


thanks for posting this I will remember it and know not to go to the hospital for psychotic breaks!


--------------------


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: joemolloy]
    #16443149 - 06/27/12 12:14 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.




brilliant.
true.


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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Comradez] * 1
    #16443579 - 06/27/12 02:35 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Comradez said:
I'm gonna be honest.  Here's what I see:

I see a situation where everyone around this person is scrambling to insert their cultural programming into her while she is still in the vulnerable state....




Good observation. The parents are trying to fix what they think SL28 broke, and SL28 is doing the same thing. Too much blame giving and taking going on here.

SL28, you mention sleep/lack of sleep constantly, more than someone who hasn't seen sleep related problems before. I wonder if your girlfriend has had sleep problems in the past?

To be honest, once the psilocybin had left her system, and wasn't influencing her mind, she should have been able to clearly distinguish reality. The fact that a full week later, she is still worrying about things that are not real is concerning. You mentioned a couple things that you said struck you as odd and I think maybe your intuition (not any supernatural sense, just the mind being sensitive to non-overt, small clues) was telling you something. She is 24 years old, nearly a bullseye for when symptoms of schizophrenia arise.

I don't want to freak you out. It just seems that everybody involved has mushrooms on the brain - meaning you, her parents and even the doctors are so focused on the mushroom trip, nobody seems to realize that mushrooms alone don't cause these problems. What needs/needed to happen was for the doctors to be able to examine her without being distracted/clouded by what they ASSUME caused her breakdown.

Good luck, and don't let people tell you it's your fault.


--------------------

The following statement, while seriously flawed, is made in the interest of shroomery unity:

I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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Offlinerikuni

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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16443780 - 06/27/12 04:01 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

...


Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 10:45 AM)


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Offlinekillyou
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: rikuni]
    #16443809 - 06/27/12 04:15 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

all people that dont believe in spirits or beings existing in other realms dont experience these beings..so their opinion is truthful to them but people who do see them are also telling the truth

with that being said I do experience these things sometimes but I know they cant hurt me because I build up on good karma if it exists or its the fact that i have told the universe that I only want to do good to the world and help people.


--------------------
There is no way you can prove I am who you think I am, nor is there anyway for me to prove to myself that I am me.


Edited by killyou (06/27/12 04:17 AM)


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Invisiblebirdland


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16443847 - 06/27/12 04:34 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like she has some intense death anxiety and possibly experienced ego loss. The fact that her grandma is dying and she would have felt like she was dying (not knowing much about the way her ego affects reality) coupled with her great suppressed fear of death really fucked with her. Hope all goes well OP, as far as I'm aware drug induced psychosis is generally short lived. :sun:


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OfflineJahLambsbread
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16444057 - 06/27/12 07:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

HAHAHA this post is BAPHOOOONARYYYY. mushrooms= less toxic that aspirin

Isn"t it hilarious how MOST OF THE TIME when something happens with a women, then a man is blamed????
In the manson murders, the women killed but MANson was charged because of WHAT??? Because he is a man???

This mentality that tells you to a doctor for every little problem is parasite of a fruitful utopian existence. Jah Ras Tafari is my only doctor and protector.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: rikuni]
    #16444227 - 06/27/12 09:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rikuni said:

oh really, I have seen exactly the described happen to a person. Only that in this case there was a shaman and the woman was alright and totally normal in the morning. But most certainly im nuts, so take your pills and hope for healing:fasted: Good luck




LOL, your reasoning had me on my knees laughing. Thank God there just happen to be a Shaman present. God forbid if he wasn't there that ladies SOUL was for the taking. Did it ever occur to you with or without a shaman the trip would end and then Waaahlaaa I bet she would have come back to normal naturally :smile:  NO spirits needed when the body clears the chemicals from its brain. The same for the chick this thread is about. With or without your "Shaman" this chick is continuously getting better each day. You admitted with most certainty that you are nuts, and I'm bound to agree. When I take my pills for healing are there spirits in those pills making the compounds useless. I live in a world where there is cause and effect. No room for abracadabra's, where spirits are the actual cause for the pulling of the strings behind life's curtains. Also I do believe in my GOD. My belief of him consists of one where he takes no action in our lives "Free will" I believe that I was made strong enough to handle anything. So its not that I lack the ability to have faith in the unseen. You just remind me of some guy just walking out of the woods for the first time in his whole life. And now in society you speak of all the truths of your village just to find out your truths were never real.


--------------------




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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JahLambsbread]
    #16444345 - 06/27/12 10:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JahLambsbread said:
This mentality that tells you to a doctor for every little problem is parasite of a fruitful utopian existence. Jah Ras Tafari is my only doctor and protector.




Call your parents, they have been worried sick wondering where you went and if you are dead or alive.


--------------------

The following statement, while seriously flawed, is made in the interest of shroomery unity:

I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16444374 - 06/27/12 10:48 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreaming said:
Quote:

rikuni said:

oh really, I have seen exactly the described happen to a person. Only that in this case there was a shaman and the woman was alright and totally normal in the morning. But most certainly im nuts, so take your pills and hope for healing:fasted: Good luck




LOL, your reasoning had me on my knees laughing.




Sad, but this kind of thinking is getting more mainstream every day. Just look at the History Channel... but not for too long or it will suck the common sense right out of your head.


--------------------

The following statement, while seriously flawed, is made in the interest of shroomery unity:

I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: rikuni]
    #16444425 - 06/27/12 11:07 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rikuni said:


oh really, I have seen exactly the described happen to a person. Only that in this case there was a shaman and the woman was allright and totally normal in the morning. But most certainly im nuts, so take your pills and hope for healing:fasted: Good luck




that's because she was tripping tits. most people wake up in the morning fine after a night of tripping. this woman didn't. that's what would differentiate a dark trip from a psychotic break


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OfflinePeaceLove
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JahLambsbread]
    #16444744 - 06/27/12 12:56 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Hey jah... you claim to follow the rastafarian religion (I personally hate all religions) but your vibes arnt irie.. you sound like a sexist to me. Manson was charged for those murders because he was the mastermind. He would brainwash not just women, but men too. He just targeted women more because he could get them all fucked up, rape them without them even knowing it cause they are so fucked up, and get them to follow him with whatever he said. He was a pretty fucked up guy, and like you probably are, he was a womanizer. I'm sorry you chose such a fucked up role model. I've never heard of a woman-hating rastafarian though... that's new haha.


--------------------
:mindblown:


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JahLambsbread]
    #16444815 - 06/27/12 01:12 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JahLambsbread said:
HAHAHA this post is BAPHOOOONARYYYY. mushrooms= less toxic that aspirin






:facepalm3: toxicity has nothing to do with psychosis.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16444962 - 06/27/12 01:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------




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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16445509 - 06/27/12 03:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

S.'s doctor has not given me a diagnosis or logical cause but here is my guess given my limited background: The psychotic break was not a direct result of the mushrooms. The mushrooms created an impactful (albeit terrifying) experience that, when followed with 4 days without sleep, exacerbated the delirium from the sleep deprivation. She's much, much better and with a bit of guidance from a professional that has a background in this sort of thing, she will probably come out of the mess better than when we got into it.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16445555 - 06/27/12 04:03 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Awesome news OP, and good to hear that her doctor is taking a balanced view of all of the factors involved. :thumbup:


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


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InvisibleFruitOfLife
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16445636 - 06/27/12 04:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:cheers: Thats awesome news man


--------------------


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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: fungi_funguy]
    #16446206 - 06/27/12 06:18 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fungi_funguy said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

I usually blend my dried fungus now and store it in an airtight container, so that I can guarantee that each trip will be the same potency as the next..




And as smart as you are, you post this bullshit.  NO FUCKING GUARANTEES EVER!  All you are gambling with is your sanity, right?  Don't ever put the words like "guarantee" near the word psychedelic.  The two cancel each other out.  All we can do is keep our fingers crossed whenever embarking and hope we'll come back more or less sane.

Make no mistake, we are playing with insanity when tripping and hoping the game ends when it is supposed to.




You are a one of a kind Joe. This 5 page thread has given me a great respect for you. Albeit twisted, respect nonetheless.

28, My heart goes out to your girl man and like others, I am very curious as to what her thoughts are after this is over. If it's ever "over". Peace and good vibes man.




I wasn't for a split second trying to imply that by blending up shrooms you're going to guarantee a good trip! That'd be a fucking ludicrous statement. All I'm saying is that by thoroughly blending your dried fungus to dust, then giving it a good stir, you can fairly much guarantee that the same amount of psylocybin will be in each dose of the same weight. It won't ward off bad trips or anything like that, obviously! My comment has been seriously misconstrued here..


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: mrjynxx]
    #16446239 - 06/27/12 06:29 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Cool, it just can't be stressed enough that you can control for as many factors as possible when ingesting these drugs, but still there are too many casualties of the experience who live with negative mental health consequences that they never imagined or anticipated.  It's imperative to weigh dosage and think long and hard about set and setting, but wild unpredictability is an inherent characteristic of tripping.  It sucks that the stakes are so high and lingering psychotic symptoms and thoughts are too expensive a price to pay.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineTheall
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16446343 - 06/27/12 06:52 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Your girlfriend is a backstabbing silly person.


Edited by Theall (06/27/12 07:49 PM)


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Theall]
    #16446401 - 06/27/12 07:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Theall said:
Your girlfriend is a stupid, backstabbing cunt.




thats pretty unnecessary


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OfflineTheall
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #16446612 - 06/27/12 07:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

You're right, post edited.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: bishlap]
    #16447856 - 06/27/12 11:34 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bishlap said:

I can't believe they wont sedate her, being awake for 3 days will fuck with your head and emotions far more than mushrooms.





I'm a nurse, and I am suprised as well that they didn't sedate her. =\


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16447891 - 06/27/12 11:39 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
S.'s doctor has not given me a diagnosis or logical cause but here is my guess given my limited background: The psychotic break was not a direct result of the mushrooms. The mushrooms created an impactful (albeit terrifying) experience that, when followed with 4 days without sleep, exacerbated the delirium from the sleep deprivation. She's much, much better and with a bit of guidance from a professional that has a background in this sort of thing, she will probably come out of the mess better than when we got into it.



:cactuarrun:


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: ohforkiefssake]
    #16447913 - 06/27/12 11:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ohforkiefssake said:
Quote:

bishlap said:

I can't believe they wont sedate her, being awake for 3 days will fuck with your head and emotions far more than mushrooms.





I'm a nurse, and I am suprised as well that they didn't sedate her. =\





Ya they definitely should have.....I would have a hell of a lot sooner than then expected


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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: ohforkiefssake]
    #16447945 - 06/27/12 11:47 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Had my daily visit with S. and she is fuzzy on everything that has happened in the last week. So, she is really waking up from the whole experience. Her mom moans that she will relapse every time we leave, I tell her she won't because it was sleep deprivation and she is caught up on her sleep now. But, her mom says it was drugs and S. will get another mushroom flashback.

On the way out, I calmly explain to the mother that the day we took her daughter to the ER was the worst day of my life. That worst day was made unbearably worse by not having 1 sympathetic soul around me and her glaring into my eyes and reminding me every 30 minutes or so that her daughter was there because of me. She didn't reply and changed the subject as tears started to well-up in my eyes. I wonder if her mom and I will ever be able to have a functional relationship again?


Edited by SL28 (06/27/12 11:50 PM)


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Invisibleohforkiefssake
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16447985 - 06/27/12 11:53 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Is she out of the hospital?


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OfflineSeekingtruth
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: ohforkiefssake]
    #16448010 - 06/27/12 11:57 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Seekingtruth]
    #16448898 - 06/28/12 02:48 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Cool story man, keep us updated. A little drug induced psychosis never hurt anyone :rockon:

Weve all been there :shrug:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16449438 - 06/28/12 07:02 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SL28 said:
Had my daily visit with S. and she is fuzzy on everything that has happened in the last week. So, she is really waking up from the whole experience. Her mom moans that she will relapse every time we leave, I tell her she won't because it was sleep deprivation and she is caught up on her sleep now. But, her mom says it was drugs and S. will get another mushroom flashback.

On the way out, I calmly explain to the mother that the day we took her daughter to the ER was the worst day of my life. That worst day was made unbearably worse by not having 1 sympathetic soul around me and her glaring into my eyes and reminding me every 30 minutes or so that her daughter was there because of me. She didn't reply and changed the subject as tears started to well-up in my eyes. I wonder if her mom and I will ever be able to have a functional relationship again?





brutal


--------------------
I'm pullin' steel wires out of my eyes
they're 20 miles long tangled up with my all insides

DieCommie said:
cut off her nose to spider face



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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Almond Flour] * 1
    #16454771 - 06/29/12 08:15 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Real CA Milk said:
Cool story man, keep us updated. A little drug induced psychosis never hurt anyone :rockon:

Weve all been there :shrug:




Drug induced psychosis saved my life, ironically!! I had been on a 6-APB binge for about 4 days, with only snatches of sleep hither and thither.. Then, I found a 'too good to be true' price on APB powder on some site. Bought a big bag of that.

That night, I went out to a D&B night where Noisia were headlining. Had a great night, although people were coming up to me, taking one look, and were like "Fucking hell mate, what the FUCK are you on??!?"

Turns out the 'too good to be true' APB wasn't APB at all, but some other dark arse stim that I was taking at high APB dosages. The next day, I started getting pains in my lower back. That night, I completely lost the plot. I went into super-psychosis mode. I was convinced the police were after me, I even remember one of them wrestling me to the floor (there was noone there). I remember a hooded, kindly man who turned out to be a black plastic bag. At the time, this all seemed entirely normal to me. Then I noticed the pavement was strewn with all my valium, so spent a good hour or so picking up vallys from all over the place (christ knows what I was actually picking up).

Fast forward 3 hours, and I went to work (the psychosis was coming in waves). I got in at 6 in the morning, far earlier than anyone else. Then, I remember distinctly a man running into the office, pointing his finger at me and saying "THAT'S HIM!!" There was another guy there with a machine gun. Then, two more blokes came down from ropes, from the ceiling. They started stealing all our company's computer gear.

I was FREAKING OUT!! I mean, to me, this was all ENTIRELY real. I had no idea it was psychosis. So I phoned, in great panic, down to the reception, to inform them that men with guns were stealing all our office gear. They came running up in a panic, to find noone there but a distinctly fucked up man spouting absolute gibberish (me).

They managed to calm me down, and asked if I needed an ambulance. To which I decided would probably be a good idea.

If I had got to the hospital an hour later, I wouldn't be writing this now because I'd be cold in the ground. Whatever the fake APB stim was, it had caused my muscle tissue to dissolve, get into my bloodstream and clog my kidneys to the point where neither one was working at all.

I spent a whole week in intensive care. They had to put a line down one of my neck arteries into my heart. 4 days of that, I spent in complete psychosis. I must have put the nurses through hell. For instance, I remember one day I was absolutely convinced I was staying in a dusty farmhouse. I was perfectly happy, and all the nurses went along with it, but WTF!!! They'd dosed me up on a massive dose of some anti-psychotic, but unfortunately it had the complete reverse effect and made me even more psychotic than I was before.

So, psychosis can be a lifesaver, weirdly. Beware what you buy online and where from, some cunts don't give a flying fuck what poison they sell and who it kills.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: mrjynxx]
    #16455090 - 06/29/12 11:11 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Holy shit Jynx, that's one hell of a story.


--------------------
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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Vahn421]
    #16455274 - 06/29/12 12:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Well, seems to me that psychosis is a pretty shitty failsafe mechanism for toxic drugs, especially since you ignored other life-saving clues like back pain and everybody telling you how fucked up you looked. Sounds like you had rhabdomyolysis, and probably was not a direct result of drug toxicity, but of not drinking enough, no eating, overheating and overworking your muscles.


--------------------

The following statement, while seriously flawed, is made in the interest of shroomery unity:

I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: koods]
    #16455411 - 06/29/12 12:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

even lsd mdmd and cocaine can cause rhabdomyolysis


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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Freedom]
    #16455570 - 06/29/12 01:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
even lsd mdmd and cocaine can cause rhabdomyolysis




That was kind of my point, the drugs enable people to treat their bodies so severely that muscle tissue begins to breakdown into proteins that damage the kidneys... Maybe with some direct drug toxicity.


--------------------

The following statement, while seriously flawed, is made in the interest of shroomery unity:

I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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OfflineEstimatedProphet34

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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: koods]
    #16455701 - 06/29/12 01:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

wow this thread was an emotional rollercoaster of a read, i can't even imagine what you went through OP. time will heal things, and im sure your soon to be mother in law will eventually begin to understand it was not your fault and her daughter chose to do drugs. Anyways I'm glad to hear that she is grasping reality again, and do not regret any of your actions, you did everything you could for her safety and well being.


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OfflineProject
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16455796 - 06/29/12 02:15 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:
Quote:

Nimpo said:
You ruined someones mind, OP.

All in the name of trying out a drug




Quote:

PeaceLove said:

As for Nimpo... do you usually kick a person when they are down and asking for help?




Yeah, fuck you Nimpo.




:billymaythumbup:


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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Project]
    #16456123 - 06/29/12 03:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

On the way out, I calmly explain to the mother that the day we took her daughter to the ER was the worst day of my life. That worst day was made unbearably worse by not having 1 sympathetic soul around me and her glaring into my eyes and reminding me every 30 minutes or so that her daughter was there because of me. She didn't reply and changed the subject as tears started to well-up in my eyes. I wonder if her mom and I will ever be able to have a functional relationship again?



Not trying to down you SL, but , this may not have been the best time to broach this subject with her mom. Don't you think that she's been through hell too. Now she'll probably always think that you were only worried about having your feelings hurt.
Truth is, even though your GF has underlying problems....the mushrooms triggered this episode....I don't think she would have got that way from eating oreos. Her mom will forever see you as the culprit. You probably can't change that, nor should you try ....at least by discussion. Your future actions will speak much louder than any words you have to say, and, unfortunately, that takes time.
You definitely sound like a good guy, and your GF is lucky to have you caring for her.....just keep doing what you're doing ...that is all you can do. Myself and a lot of others here wish you all the best.:sunny::peace:


--------------------
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InvisibleSL28
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16456667 - 06/29/12 05:44 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I took S.'s and my mutual friend with me to visit her last night and sat back and enjoyed the show. Our friend is very big in the AA circles in my area and the first thing I do is point out the "Big Book" to her on the book shelf, at which point I knew she would start quoting from it. Lots and lots of "philosophical mumbo-jumbo." After she had exhausted that line of thought, she starts talking loudly about how her BMs have been a bit runny and continues that thread on and off for a good 30 minutes. Meanwhile, S.'s mom is trying to continue the baby-talk, but it feels off now because of the things our friend is talking about. Then, to push the envelope, she ask's S.'s mom if her and S. are allowed conjugal visits. Her mom looks helplessly at S.'s dad and he looks like he's holding back a laugh.

S. is having as good of time as I am through all of this and she seems to be her old self again, although a bit slow from the drugs. I'm going to encourage her tonight to press her doctors for a diagnosis, information on the remaining course of treatment, and planned release date. All useful information that I feel she is entitled to.


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OfflineXocide
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16456705 - 06/29/12 05:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Wish yah luck dude! All that happens is meant to happen. Just focus on making things in the present better and the future will work its self out.


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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Vahn421]
    #16457069 - 06/29/12 07:13 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Holy shit Jynx, that's one hell of a story.




Damn straight man.. I was going through a terrible time, I suffered a monster breakdown due to being worked 5am till 11pm every day for 5 months. I got into opiates and sedatives hardcore to try and relieve it, but it ended up pretty much destroying my life. I'm a lucky, LUCKY man to still be here now.

Taking up to 60mg vally a day along with the 12mg subutex I was on, mixed in with separating from my wife (also drug induced, she had a horrible oxycontin problem at the same time and we were both as fucked up as each other), led to me making some fucking STUPID decisions.

I owe my life to that intensive care unit, and the shame has never left me. Which is a GOOD thing. It's taken until literally 2 weeks ago to fully sort out my opiate and sedative problems.

Thank christ my wife has been through the same kind of shit, is a wonderful, forgiving person. We're back together now and as happy as ever. I'm not a religious man, but I fully believe in guardian angels, whatever they may actually be. Maybe it's karma? I'm not a bad person. I'm a kind, generous person. Trouble is, a kind, generous person with a dangerous propensity for making stupid decisions when under heavy stress.

Peace all, especially to OP! :heart:


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: mrjynxx]
    #16457152 - 06/29/12 07:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Drug induced psychosis has basically been a life saver for me. After two years of smoking copious amounts of pot and half a year of doing other drugs (LSD, MDMA, mushrooms, ketamine, cocaine) I started noticing many changes in my life. I remember laying in my bed, about a week after my second acid trip and hearing a radio playing in the next room. Since I was trying to fall asleep I proceeded to turn it off only to realize it hadn't been on in the first place. At first I thought this was a brain fart.  Soon after, I began hearing many voices as I attempted to fall asleep. I even gave them names. One voice sounded like someone yawning, the other like a radio, another said my name very slowly and emphasized certain letters, another was evil laughter, another very rarely presented itself as a group of people talking all at once. This might sound bad but the worst part is that these would all play over and over in my head like a tape recorder as I tried to fall asleep. I resorted to playing loud music and taking sleeping pills every evening to fall asleep and escape the transitional phase between awake and dreaming. The worst part however, was when I would smoke marijuana I would hear these voices in my waking state and even when I was sober I would hear these voices.

I forgot to even mention, during this entire period my ability to socialize and engage in normal conversations was greatly reduced. People would tell me that I would switch from one idea to the other, making loose associations between subjects.  I began to go insane, I eventually had a panic attack and went freaking crazy and couldn't sit in one place for more than a second. The voices were overwhelming and I thought I was becoming schizophrenic and my life was over. I called my friends and said many things that were even said that I wanted to overdose and kill myself.. not the best day for sure. I then took a 8 gram dose of kratom and was brought back to reality and was able to relax.  After this, I quit marijuana and all other drugs (a few minor relapses here and there) and since then I have been brought back to reality. I only hear the one yawning voice as I fall asleep and it is rather faint.

Moral of the story: these drugs, especially marijuana can bring anybody to a psychotic state. Don't think just because you have a stable mind you are immune to the negative consequences of these drugs. Trust me, I was that guy. You never know if you are one of those people that are susceptible to going crazy, despite you belief that you will not be effected. Sure, psychedelics and marijuana don't have the negative physical consequences of harder drugs. But what happened with me is my lifestyle and my friends and pretty much everything revolved around these drugs, so when I went crazy and had to give them up I was even more lost then I thought I would be. The key thing here as well is that pot is much worse than you think. I know for a fact that it gave me HPPD and has made any psychotic symptoms I experienced multiply a tenfold. The only times I ever really heard voices to begin with was when I was high on bud, and it took a long time after that for those symptoms to appear in my sober life as well. Anyways, I could ramble on and on about my experiences but I hope any readers who are debating whether or not they want to indulge in the psychedelic experience should consider my experience before they do so.


--------------------
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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #16457168 - 06/29/12 07:32 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Now I am drug free, aside from kratom. I am happier than ever and visit this site much more frequently which has given more space for non drug related thoughts.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #16459970 - 06/30/12 12:19 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Drug induced psychosis has basically been a life saver for me. After two years of smoking copious amounts of pot and half a year of doing other drugs (LSD, MDMA, mushrooms, ketamine, cocaine) I started noticing many changes in my life. I remember laying in my bed, about a week after my second acid trip and hearing a radio playing in the next room. Since I was trying to fall asleep I proceeded to turn it off only to realize it hadn't been on in the first place. At first I thought this was a brain fart.  Soon after, I began hearing many voices as I attempted to fall asleep. I even gave them names. One voice sounded like someone yawning, the other like a radio, another said my name very slowly and emphasized certain letters, another was evil laughter, another very rarely presented itself as a group of people talking all at once. This might sound bad but the worst part is that these would all play over and over in my head like a tape recorder as I tried to fall asleep. I resorted to playing loud music and taking sleeping pills every evening to fall asleep and escape the transitional phase between awake and dreaming. The worst part however, was when I would smoke marijuana I would hear these voices in my waking state and even when I was sober I would hear these voices.

I forgot to even mention, during this entire period my ability to socialize and engage in normal conversations was greatly reduced. People would tell me that I would switch from one idea to the other, making loose associations between subjects.  I began to go insane, I eventually had a panic attack and went freaking crazy and couldn't sit in one place for more than a second. The voices were overwhelming and I thought I was becoming schizophrenic and my life was over. I called my friends and said many things that were even said that I wanted to overdose and kill myself.. not the best day for sure. I then took a 8 gram dose of kratom and was brought back to reality and was able to relax.  After this, I quit marijuana and all other drugs (a few minor relapses here and there) and since then I have been brought back to reality. I only hear the one yawning voice as I fall asleep and it is rather faint.

Moral of the story: these drugs, especially marijuana can bring anybody to a psychotic state. Don't think just because you have a stable mind you are immune to the negative consequences of these drugs. Trust me, I was that guy. You never know if you are one of those people that are susceptible to going crazy, despite you belief that you will not be effected. Sure, psychedelics and marijuana don't have the negative physical consequences of harder drugs. But what happened with me is my lifestyle and my friends and pretty much everything revolved around these drugs, so when I went crazy and had to give them up I was even more lost then I thought I would be. The key thing here as well is that pot is much worse than you think. I know for a fact that it gave me HPPD and has made any psychotic symptoms I experienced multiply a tenfold. The only times I ever really heard voices to begin with was when I was high on bud, and it took a long time after that for those symptoms to appear in my sober life as well. Anyways, I could ramble on and on about my experiences but I hope any readers who are debating whether or not they want to indulge in the psychedelic experience should consider my experience before they do so.




Weed has got to be the worst for drug induced psychosis because it is seen as a 'safe' drug compared to the rest of them. But, at the end of the day, it's a hallucinogen. And the stronger the strains get, the stronger a hallucinogen it becomes. I was a chronic smoker from my late teens to my late 20's. By the end, I had nasty ganja psychosis. I'd worry all the time that I was gay, even though I'm not. I worried about all sorts of abstract things that I haven't ever given a single thought to since I stopped smoking the stuff.

I was getting through between half to a whole ounce of strong weed a week. It was the same old cycle, day in, day out. Wake up, have a reefer. Go to work. Do work. At lunchtime, another reefer. Do more work. All the time with weird paranoid thoughts looping round and round my head. Get home from work, and smoke myself stupid until bed time. Lie in bed, worrying about everything and anything, paranoid as hell about got only knows what.

But, being a ganja addict, I was willing to attribute the thoughts to anything but ganja itself. Then, one new year, I decided to quit the shit cold turkey. I didn't sleep more than a couple of hours a night for 3 whole months. Then, I got sent off to LA to work on a film at Universal Studios for 6 weeks. Those 6 weeks were the best thing that ever happened to me. The Hollywood studios work you HARD, so I started getting natural sleep again through pure exhaustion. Plus, the complete change in lifestyle, and being there on my own, sorting myself out in the weird LA bubble (Hollywood folk aren't much like normal folk in my experience, especially being from the UK). Well, it all took my mind completely off ganja, which I'd been lusting after for 12 weeks.

When I got home from LA, I was cured. All paranoid, distorted thoughts completely gone. And they've never returned. I occasionally smoke the odd bit of reefer, or whatever smoking blend someone might have, but now it's a once in a blue moon type thing. And I've never felt healthier in the head!

When I was heavily into my pills and acid (this was late 90's, when pills were PILLS and acid was ACID), a wise friend of mine said not to worry about the intake of hard drugs I was taking, but be very fucking cautious about ganja. How right he turned out to be. The only problem I suffered is that I swapped ganja for beer, so I tend to drink a 4 pack a night most nights (to our US compadres, that's 4 pints of beer). Not particularly healthy on the liver, but far more healthy on my poor psyche!! :laugh:


Edited by mrjynxx (06/30/12 12:21 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: mrjynxx]
    #16460039 - 06/30/12 12:39 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

God, these accounts are fascinating.

Though Jynx, I must admit when you ended it all with, "Now I drink 4 pints a night!" I kinda had a "Doooh!" moment. :wink:

Of course, I AM the chronic pot smoker my self. My roots, however, are very, "Green." My pops has been growing for years and I live in Portland, so culturally speaking, there is far less reason to be paranoid anyway.

As far as being, "Careful of the Ganga." I can agree in a way. It's easy to smoke every day because there are no to incredibly little harmful physical effects., and being high is FUN. =3

I think with all drugs, Marijuana especially, the paranoia we have to deal with in American culture because of the Law and of watchful/nosey neighbors makes the High experience far less pleasant in many situations that it could be. I think these factors effect things like Psychosis, paranoia and schizo behavior more than we realize, too.

Alcohol is the ONLY drug in America that has a cultural advantage, currently. Something to consider.

-V


--------------------
Dive into the heart... but don't be afraid.



Edited by Vahn421 (06/30/12 12:41 PM)


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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Vahn421]
    #16460222 - 06/30/12 01:31 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
God, these accounts are fascinating.

Though Jynx, I must admit when you ended it all with, "Now I drink 4 pints a night!" I kinda had a "Doooh!" moment. :wink:

Of course, I AM the chronic pot smoker my self. My roots, however, are very, "Green." My pops has been growing for years and I live in Portland, so culturally speaking, there is far less reason to be paranoid anyway.

As far as being, "Careful of the Ganga." I can agree in a way. It's easy to smoke every day because there are no to incredibly little harmful physical effects., and being high is FUN. =3

I think with all drugs, Marijuana especially, the paranoia we have to deal with in American culture because of the Law and of watchful/nosey neighbors makes the High experience far less pleasant in many situations that it could be. I think these factors effect things like Psychosis, paranoia and schizo behavior more than we realize, too.

Alcohol is the ONLY drug in America that has a cultural advantage, currently. Something to consider.

-V




Ha! I know what you mean, it's weak arse lager though, so I'm only drinking a couple of units more than the safe daily limit.. What can I say, I'm a fuckhead! Are you from the US? You should see the problems we have with alcohol over here in the UK. My intake is pretty tame in comparison to the majority..

Edit to add: In terms of what you're saying about paranoia being a cultural thing, that definitely wasn't the case with me. Ganja is not seen as a bad drug in the UK. If the fuzz find you with an eighth on you, 9 times out of 10 they'll just take it off you, tell you what a naughty boy you are and then send you on your way, no repercussions other than the fact that you lost your green.

No, for me it was definitely a slow warping of my brain over the course of 10 years that caused my problems. Take TV as an example. I'd try and watch a programme, but I'd be so stoned all the time that a statement in the programme would send me off on a thoughtful tangent, thinking about all and sundry to do with the comment and not concentrating on the programme. 10 minutes later I'd realise what had happened and try and get back to the programme, but I'd lost 10 minutes to random thoughts, so I'd be completely lost. I lived like that for about 4 years. Nightmare, really. I've heard elsewhere that for some people, ganja is always a calm, relaxing drug. It was like that for me, for about 6 years. Then, it was like a switch went off in my brain, and from there on in, it turned me into a paranoid zombie. Unless I got pissed first, but that was a rarity because I could never be arsed to go out on account of being knackered from work and stoned all the time.

But, of course, I was too addicted to the high to want to admit that to myself, so I just went on, staggering on as zombies do into a deeper and deeper pit of scatty thoughts and paranoia!


Edited by mrjynxx (06/30/12 01:47 PM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: mrjynxx]
    #16460529 - 06/30/12 02:52 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Marijuana gives me racing thoughts, paranoia and anxiety. It's such a shame that everyone is downplaying it's negative effects. Once it becomes legal, even people that are prone or who have mental illness will think it's alright to go hard on the bud with no ill effects, but they will be surely surprised and in for much more of a shit storm than they could ever imagine.


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Invisiblefilthydee
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #16460589 - 06/30/12 03:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

when i used to smoke reefer it ended up giving me lots of anxiety and paranoia.
i realize i just was smoking way too much too often.
moderation is a must. years of chronically smoking anything isn't going to help anyone.


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Invisiblejack_straw2208
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: filthydee]
    #16484350 - 07/05/12 10:13 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

update OP?


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #16484943 - 07/05/12 01:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Marijuana gives me racing thoughts, paranoia and anxiety. It's such a shame that everyone is downplaying it's negative effects. Once it becomes legal, even people that are prone or who have mental illness will think it's alright to go hard on the bud with no ill effects, but they will be surely surprised and in for much more of a shit storm than they could ever imagine.





propaganda much?


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #16485219 - 07/05/12 02:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Don't underestimate weed. Yes, it's a very benign drug, if used responsibly, but equally it can seriously fuck you up if you abuse it for too long.


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OfflinePoisonCrazy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16486541 - 07/05/12 09:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Really gut-wrenching story OP. I wish you and your gal the best.


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16486744 - 07/05/12 10:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Don't underestimate weed. Yes, it's a very benign drug, if used responsibly, but equally it can seriously fuck you up if you abuse it for too long.





I don't I have been high as a motherfucker on hash oil! I was tripping balls I was so fucking high! neone who says weed isn't psychedelic hasn't tried smoking hash oil out'a a bong meant to facilitate such hardcore activities....

I experience extreme paranoia and anxiety that is unbearable and extremely uncomfortable and unpleasant. That is bc i don't smoke and when i do it is far to much for my fragile psyche. But to apply it to everyone is idiotic :grrr:! not to mention spreading that bullshit about how legalizing it would make people think everything is perfect and theres no danger. come the fuck on....then inciting fear by referring to a shitstorm worse then can ever b imagined? What a load of horse shit...I would expect that from a DEA agent but from a member of the shroomery? We are supposed to be beyond and above that level of ignorance


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #16486863 - 07/05/12 10:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Last time I smoked Marijuana was a few years ago. I took 1 small bong rip and was literally TRIPPING for the next 2 hours. Full blown hallucinations, time dialation, the works. I honestly attribute it to a flash back from a bad mushroom trip I had, but either way weed IS VERY fucking psychedelic and should be respected as much depending on your brain chemistry


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Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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OfflinepsilocybeMAN
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16486965 - 07/05/12 10:43 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

That's fucking weird, I smoke daily and just feel relaxed. Marijuana keeps me sane. Stick to Indica strains if you suffer from anxiety.


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Offlinemrjynxx
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psilocybeMAN]
    #16488443 - 07/06/12 04:06 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

For me these days, it's got to be a good hash.. Skunk is too heady and makes gives me the anxiety/paranoia thing, hash just splats me out, which is exactly what I want.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: SL28]
    #16488960 - 07/06/12 08:25 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

OP, update?

Quote:

The main thing she had been grappling with was this odd feeling that someone had died.




Yeah, that came out in the thought fragments you quoted. "High strung" ego dismantling and a mom who won't let go of a 24 year old are almost tailor made for this kind of experience, sad to say.

But all through here, what kind of medical establishment won't treat days of insomnia correctly? God damn!

Hope it turns out for the good. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------
endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place


Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep :awesomenod: Tea Tek :awesomenod: Potency Project! :awesomenod:


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OfflinePeaceLove
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16490861 - 07/06/12 05:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I'm with the last post. Any more updates on how she's doing and how your doing? I feel like your post keeps getting hijacked and I don't want you to think nobody cares cause I'm quite interested in how this worked out. If S is down for it, maybe have her post a report on how she felt and feels now and all that. I could see it helping someone and just being a great report. Plus writing the experience down and how she feels could help her reflect on the situation. But regardless of all that, to hear another update would be nice.


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InvisibleOctopusDr
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PeaceLove]
    #16491120 - 07/06/12 06:39 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

This is a fake story.  It's some sort of anti-psychedelics campaign.  You kids are gullible.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: OctopusDr]
    #16491139 - 07/06/12 06:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OctopusDr said:
This is a fake story.  It's some sort of anti-psychedelics campaign.  You kids are gullible.



did you even read the whole thread? There is clearly alot of love for psycedelics from everyone who contributed and the OP, the condition was attributed to past mental conditions, NOT the drugs


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16491291 - 07/06/12 07:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah she had a real adverse reaction to a combination of psychedelics and sleeplessness. If I get anything from this it is the importance of a balanced sleep schedule before and after a trip.


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InvisibleOctopusDr
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16491328 - 07/06/12 07:20 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
the condition was attributed to past mental conditions, NOT the drugs



"High Strung," huh?...

This story is so contrived sounding.  The op, who has lots of past experience with mushrooms, signs up just to post this?  His girlfriend is freaking out in the hospital and they won't give here a benzo to relax?  This happened over 2 weeks ago and she doesn't get better until Op tells her what the Shroomery had to say?

"M. fed me copious amounts of mushrooms, he killed me."

The girlfriend didn't say this.  This is the way the Op would say this.  Not his girlfriend.

I can spot a liar because I know how to lie.  You all are awesome and caring people for responding, but don't waste it on this poster.  This story was designed to scare you all.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: OctopusDr]
    #16491349 - 07/06/12 07:24 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OctopusDr said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
the condition was attributed to past mental conditions, NOT the drugs



"High Strung," huh?...

This story is so contrived sounding.  The op, who has lots of past experience with mushrooms, signs up just to post this?  His girlfriend is freaking out in the hospital and they won't give here a benzo to relax?  This happened over 2 weeks ago and she doesn't get better until Op tells her what the Shroomery had to say?

"M. fed me copious amounts of mushrooms, he killed me."

The girlfriend didn't say this.  This is the way the Op would say this.  Not his girlfriend.

I can spot a liar because I know how to lie.  You all are awesome and caring people for responding, but don't waste it on this poster.  This story was designed to scare you all.



i dont think anyone is scared, well maybe is made me more scared of the esablished "system" but not of the drugs, hell i want to do drugs just as much as ever


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16491367 - 07/06/12 07:26 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Well, this story definitely made me more hesitant about introducing psychedelics to even seemingly healthy new people, so if it was propaganda, then it worked on me.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


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OfflineKaZ9
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: OctopusDr]
    #16491397 - 07/06/12 07:35 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OctopusDr said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
the condition was attributed to past mental conditions, NOT the drugs



"High Strung," huh?...

This story is so contrived sounding.  The op, who has lots of past experience with mushrooms, signs up just to post this?  His girlfriend is freaking out in the hospital and they won't give here a benzo to relax?  This happened over 2 weeks ago and she doesn't get better until Op tells her what the Shroomery had to say?

"M. fed me copious amounts of mushrooms, he killed me."

The girlfriend didn't say this.  This is the way the Op would say this.  Not his girlfriend.

I can spot a liar because I know how to lie.  You all are awesome and caring people for responding, but don't waste it on this poster.  This story was designed to scare you all.




Must say Doc Ock here posts some convincing stuff. He may be right. Then again he may not, OP sounded weird from the start to me maybe he's just got some problems expressing himself with what is going on and such.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: KaZ9]
    #16491574 - 07/06/12 08:13 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I thought that too when I read the thread, but then figured :freshwtf: give the OP benefit of the doubt.

It'd be stupid as propaganda because it'll backfire and be the exact opposite eventually. And everybody will laugh and believe what they want to anyway.  What's the point???

:peace:PS


--------------------
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OfflinePoisonCrazy
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16492183 - 07/06/12 10:47 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Yeah, I thought that too when I read the thread, but then figured :freshwtf: give the OP benefit of the doubt.

It'd be stupid as propaganda because it'll backfire and be the exact opposite eventually. And everybody will laugh and believe what they want to anyway.  What's the point???

:peace:PS



I tend to judge on evidence, so planting false stories about seriously adverse effects could affect my opinions. But not everyone is so concerned about 'the facts'.


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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PoisonCrazy]
    #16496432 - 07/07/12 09:12 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr:


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There is no way you can prove I am who you think I am, nor is there anyway for me to prove to myself that I am me.


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OfflineAdi39
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: killyou]
    #16496929 - 07/07/12 11:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Regardless of whether it is or isn't propaganda (which I highly doubt it is, this is pretty ineffective as a propaganda story...) it doesn't change the fact that there are numerous horror stories of people spiraling into psychosis as the result of psychedelic experimentation. It's not the majority experience, but it definitely exists..


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Adi39]
    #16497573 - 07/08/12 02:06 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Adi39 said:
Regardless of whether it is or isn't propaganda (which I highly doubt it is, this is pretty ineffective as a propaganda story...) it doesn't change the fact that there are numerous horror stories of people spiraling into psychosis as the result of psychedelic experimentation. It's not the majority experience, but it definitely exists..



Indeed, what he is experiancing sounds like a legit story, and I have witnessed it myself in my own life with people I have known.

Take care of your mind folks, your locked inside it for the rest of your life


--------------------
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16498086 - 07/08/12 05:30 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Who cares if it's propaganda or a real story?! It's a well known fact that some people's heads just cannot cope with psychedelics. Mine can, most of the people on this sites' heads can. But some people's just can't cope with the extreme reality distortion, and things go horribly, horribly wrong. I've seen it happen myself. I've seen someone on acid headbutt through a kitchen window, rip someone's bedroom door off, take off all their clothes and was then caught by the police and ambulance people bleeding like a mofo, running up and down the street naked shouting complete gibberish.

Mine is NOT a fake tale. It actual has quite a funny ending, because when they got him to hospital, he gave the nurses merry hell because every time they got him into a bed, he'd get out of it and start running round the hospital halls.

2 days later, he had absolutely no recollection of what had happened. And it wasn't particularly strong acid, because I had a couple of tabs.

Was fucking scary at the time though. Not pleasant, dealing with that shit, when you're tripping nuts..


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16498099 - 07/08/12 05:39 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Take care of your mind folks, your locked inside it for the rest of your life




Interesting epistemological proposition there... :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------
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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16499444 - 07/08/12 02:41 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

last new years eve i was at a party were most people were drinking, except one of the poeple who took acid, he flipped shit. His girl friend went into the bathroom and he thought she was in there dying so he tried kicking the door down, then started punch and kicking support beams in the basement trying to break them. he was really pissed for some reason and trying to fight everyone. His girlfriend was obviously crying cause she was scared and her makeup was running down her face, later on he said it looked like her face was dead and black, he kept trying to call the police and tell the neighbors about the dead body we had. some people dont mix well


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OfflineLysolManiac
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: psyconaught]
    #16519409 - 07/12/12 01:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Update OP?
How's your friend doing now... it must have been almost a month by now?


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Offlinehome wrecker
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: LysolManiac]
    #16520531 - 07/12/12 04:50 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

kill her silently.


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Offlinehome wrecker
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Re: Complete psychotic break of friend [Re: killyou]
    #16520559 - 07/12/12 04:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

kill her silently.
Quote:

killyou said:
:harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr::harhar::rr:



roger mo'fuckin rabbit


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